Jesus was not "good"?

Hey everyoneI was reading the scripture when I came to something I was unsure about and hope that someone can help me. Luke 18:18-30 18 A ruler questioned Him, saying, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" 19 And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.Now, we know that Jesus was without sin but he refuses to be called “good”. Is this a case of him acknowledging that his lack of sin was due to the spirit of the Father in him? We know that in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God (as John1 begins). When the word was made flesh, did this remove him from the deity until the time of his sanctification? Your son in ChristJames

I believe that Jesus was rebuking the ruler for calling him "good teacher" and nothing more.Something like: "Why do you call Me good if you do not acknowledge that I am God? It is only God who is good."Therefore, the reason why Jesus refused to be called good was not because He was not good, but it was a way of confronting the ruler who had a wrong view of who Jesus really was.

Well said. Jesus' arguement did not say He wasn't good. Only that God was. Therefore--since he IS God--He is good.matthew

James,Was Jesus really refusing to be called "good", or was this a question of the man's heart? No where in the Bible do we see God refusing praise from those whose hearts are sincere.If you read the passage carefully, you will see that Jesus is calling this man's motives into question. Why do you call me good? Do you really know what it means to be good? Do you really know who I am? (These are serious questions that need to be asked by all of those seeking God. Why are you coming to Christ? For your own benefit or the glory of God?)Jesus knew this man's motives. Jesus responded, "You know the commandments." As if to say, "You know the truth. You know what the Law requires. . . You know it is impossible." For this poor fellow wished to justify himself! After Jesus lists a few of the 10 Commandments the ruler responds, "All of these I have kept from my youth."Not missing an opportunity to teach, the Great Teacher goes to the heart of the problem. "You still lack one thing." What could be lacking in a man who has kept the Commandments since his youth?Well, his heart was amiss. His heart was with his treasure on earth. He would not give all he had to follow Jesus. He had missed the heart of the Law of Moses; a schoolmaster pointing lost souls to their need of redemption in (the coming) Christ. The Law was not instituted so we could save ourselves by our obedience to it, but to reveal our innate wickedness and need of a Savior.The Great Teacher seizes this opportunity to teach His followers. He states that it is impossible for the rich to enter the Kingdom of God. He declares that a large camel could more readily fit through the tiny eye of a needle than the rich be saved.The Holy Spirit is a work in the hearts of the hearers. "Who then can be saved?" they ask. Remember, these were probably not wealthy people following Jesus (see verse 28). So, how were they "rich"? Where your treasure is, your heart will be also. We all have something(s) we revere more than God alone. This is our treasure. We are rich with success, greed, lust, power, laziness, apathy, hatred, ourselves, etc.So, how do we "rich" people get saved? "The things that are impossible with people are possible with God." (Verse 27) Regeneration is a miracle of God. It is His gift, not of works that none should boast.Jesus wasn't refusing to be called good. He wanted His followers (and potential followers) to realize just who and what He was. "Who do you say that I am?" Jesus wanted them (and us) to count the cost before we follow Him. What is the cost of obedience? Even worse, what is the cost of disobedience?Will you take up your cross and follow Jesus?

I agree. Jesus was without saying, "Hey buddy, I'm God" saying I am God. He was trying to prepare this man to receive the idea that He was the Son of God therefore God. By the way we are the Sons of God too. That makes us God too. "As He is, so are we in this world." He is God, so are we in this world. On a sideline, there is no morality associated with God. He is holy. Morality is a earthly, temporal concept. God is righteous and holy. That is why it is not in our interest to be a "good" Christian, but to be a holy and righteous Christian. That keeps us seated in heavenly places.

He was trying to prepare this man to receive the idea that He was the Son of God therefore God. By the way we are the Sons of God too. That makes us God too. "As He is, so are we in this world." He is God, so are we in this world. Could you clarify the statement, "That makes us God too.", please?

Hey everyoneI appreciate everyone’s statements; you have all helped me tremendously. I think the general consensus was that Jesus was questioning the man’s motives for calling him good, since he could not have know that he and the father are one. Perhaps it was even customary to call all teachers good and so Jesus may have spoken with a slight exasperation.I still have a question for smichael though. You say that we are God. Surely this is not true as long as we are in our earthly tabernacles. As the scripture say in Ephesians 5 “30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.” It has always been my belief that as long as the Church (Christians) are on earth we are the bride and not the wife, so to speak. Am I mistaken? James

In my opinion, we are "called" sons of God not because we really are, but because we have been adopted as sons. It is very out-of-line with Scripture to say that we are God in any way. We are created (not begotten) fallen worthless men who deserve hell. Be cautious about falling into Mormon doctrines here.

what does it mean to be a son of someone? It means you are the same species. Like gives birth to like that is repeated again and again in Genesis. Is it that God is the only being in existance that gives birth to something less than Himself. The question is not have we become members of the Godhead but do we live up to it?Here are some scriptures to suport this truth:Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.offspring = genos (strongs 1085) it means kindred, offspring, family, stock, and the aggregate of many individuals of the same nature, kind, sortWe are the God kind and sort. His literal children.The word Godhead used here is Theios (strongs 2304) A general name of deities used by the Greeks and spoken of the only and true God.II Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.divine here is again Theiosbut it is neat what nature isphusis (strongs 5449) nature of things, force, laws As oppposed to monstrous, abnormal, perverse: birth, physical origin and more.That is why the communion is such an important part of the Christian life. We are joining symbolically with Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and the other Christians around us in one body, one mind, and one spirit. Unity must happen or we would call that a diseased body.

Jimm our bodies are here as the manifest presence of God. That is why where we walk is holy ground. We change things. Was the tabernacle in the desert any more holy than the temple? It is the presence of God that sanctifies. We have the Holy Spirit resident in us slowly changing us into Jesus. Remember, Jesus is the only kind of man that God can live with forever. Our immaturity does not change the fact that we are of the Godhead making us the species called God. That was the Spirit that I was born again from. That born again is not just polite rhetoric. I must think, act, walk, and do exactly as Jesus did on earth. It is a tall order and I die daily.Regarding the bride thing: I hear many people refering to their wives as their bride. But, I think we must look to marriages as they were in the Bible times. People were engaged for a year typically before they consumated the marriage. these women were not independant. They were considered the wives of their intended. We are only physically manifest on earth, spiritually we are even now seated in heavenly places. Christians need to get their thinking out of the physical that they see and see the physical from God's view.

Let me know the next time you adopt a dog or cat to be your child! We think that is weird yet we will ascribe that to God. We are birthed as the God kind. That is the victory and joy. When we were in Adam we all sinned and died spiritually then physically finally followed. But, Adam was dead when he sinned. A dead man walking. We are born dead. In a spiritual sense we are the night of the living dead. (Sorry, my 1980's origin is showing) Jesus came and brought His light, which is the life of men. We are literally born again by the Holy Spirit. We are adopted into the line and provision of Abraham. That convenant is what we are adopted or grafted into. He says that we are grafted into a vine and I don't see anyone saying we must be vegatation?Study out Philippians 2:6 It is our identification with who Jesus is and how He accomplished His mission that empowers us to the same kind of success. We shouldn't consider it robbery to be equal with God. The question is are we manifesting God or our we taking this spiritual blessing and doing what we have always known. The gospel message is good news you do not have to live as a mere mortal man. You have been born of deity and can live everlastingly as God lives, now and continuing after we leave the corrupt flesh and put on a new body.

Study out Philippians 2:6 It is our identification with who Jesus is and how He accomplished His mission that empowers us to the same kind of success. We shouldn't consider it robbery to be equal with God.Well, I followed your advice, and I came to a completely different conclusion. Philippians Chapter 2 is the antithesis of your proposition. Philipians 2:6 Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God (KJV)The archaic language of the KJV here is deceptive, but still can be properly interpreted if only you would have read the surrounding passages. Verses 3-5 "Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem each other better than themselves. (4)Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. (5) Let this mind be in you, which also in Christ Jesus:"Verses 7-8a "(7)But made himself of no reputations and took upon himself the form of a servant(slave), and was made in the likeness of men: (8a)And being found in fashion as a man"The King James here is deceptive in todays language. It appears to say that Jesus had no problem being equal with God and actively sought to be such on the earth, but then verse 7 appears to contradict the previous passage saying that he made himself of no reputation.Here is what the literal says in my interlinear text says of verses 6 and 7:"(6)Who in the form of God existing not a thing to be grasped did regard to be equal with God. (7)But He poured out Himself the form of a slave taking in the likeness of men having been born and having been found in appearance as a man."The NASB says it more properly than the KJV in this way:"(6)who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, (7)but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being in the likeness of men"Now that a proper renduring of this passage has been quoted, verse 5 says, "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Chirst Jesus."You say we should walk as God, Philippians says we should walk in humility as mere men humbly oweing our existance and subsistance to the providence of our Father. This is the secret to the powerful Christian life. It's not a "mighty prophet" working great signs and wonders, but a lowly submission to a greater power that works mightily within us. The miracles that were worked through the apostles were not the works of the apostles, but God bringing miracles at the hands of His servants, and that's how He still does it today. Not like the "God on vacation" as Kenneth Copeland teaches.Let me know the next time you adopt a dog or cat to be your child! We think that is weird yet we will ascribe that to God. We are birthed as the God kind. That God takes us as His own, does not make us Godlike. Jesus also said He could raise up children of Abraham from rocks. You make a fundamental mistake here. Yes we are called His children, and Acts calls us his offspring, but so is all of creation. God can only give what He has, therefore all of creation will reflect in some way the nature of God. If your logic is followed to its conclusion it can lead only to some quasi form of pantheism.My question to you would be, "Just how do we become the 'God kind'?". And what attributes should we expect to have manifest in our lives after entering such a state?

The verse from Phillipians explains how Jesus accomplished his work. That is how we accomplish our work. We are part of the Godhead as children of God. Just as my children are part of my family. They are of the same species as I am. I am a child of God so I am of His species. How do we become the God "kind": We must die to self. We must continually let God kill everything in us that is of the old man. What attributes should we have: I Corinthians 13 love would be oozing I should think. Humility, wisdom, fruit of the spirit, righteousness, and peace. The church is burdened with great sin and unproductiveness. There hasn't been a sweeping move of God in years. Why? Why does the church or the individual christian lack the power to clean and heal themselves? The world looks at us and they see no overcoming power. The church is dry. We deny our own birthright. I am not just a man.I Corinthians 3:3For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?When we walk as men who are just humble and weak and human we cannot be in unity or act like the overcoming, victorious people that God has called us to. We are part of the Godhead. It is time we get that concept into our heart and humble ourselves to receive all the responsibility and power and love that comes with the new birth.

smichael,The verse from Phillipians explains how Jesus accomplished his work. That is how we accomplish our work. We are part of the Godhead as children of God. Just as my children are part of my family. They are of the same species as I am. I am a child of God so I am of His species. How do we become the God "kind": We must die to self. We must continually let God kill everything in us that is of the old man. The language of "He is God, so are we in this world," (your own words) and the logic you have outlined here bears a lot of resemblance to Witness Lee's controversial teachings, justified by his followers using Athanasius' words, "God became a man so that man can become God." I don't know if you are aware of that.I think quite a number of the participants of these forums would be quite uncomfortable with this notion.

Hello againThis discussion has taken an interesting twist! Just to clarify, when we speak of God, do we speak of the trinity or do we speak of the Father? If it is indeed the trinity, then we are not the trinity by any means. Again, if it is the Father, I still do not see how we can be the Father…as the scripture says, “My Father, who has given them to Me, is GREATER THAN ALL; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.” (John 10:29) Another time, “Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is GREATER THAN I.” (John 14:28)The Old Testament tells us that, “Joel 2:29 And also upon the SERVANTS and upon the HANDMAIDS in those days will I pour out my spirit.” Later however Jesus said in John 15:15, “ Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.” Either way as a friend or a servant we are not God. As Paul said in Romans 12, “3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.” He goes on to speak of us being members of a the body and Christ being the head of the body. Every part of the body is subject to the head and the must follow the head to maintain harmony. If for example, your legs were equal to you head, they may decide that today is actually not a good day for walking, in fact they may very well boycott walking altogether, you would be completely immobilized and powerless to do anything about it. For harmony there must be, in my opinion, one head, one sovereign and one God. Paul says in Romans1:20, “1:20From the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse.” This eternal power and divine nature is something we simply do not possess as human beings. Again Paul says in Romans 12:3, “For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.”James

James,Thanks for the post. I was wondering that too. Wouldn't calling Christians God, infringe on the doctrine of the trinity?Yes, dogs beget dogs and people beget people, but does God beget gods?I think this was answered in John 3:16.

Going back to the original question, I would like to add these comments:The ruler's question was, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?" (In Matthew's version, "what good thing must I do...?") In answer to that Jesus said, "Why do you call me good? No one is good--except God alone." So the ruler was expecting a list of good things to do so that you could get eternal life.Instead, Jesus pointed him to the source of goodness--that is, God himself.