The Emerging Merger

[b]From e-sword's Websters: Emergent
EMERG'ENT, a. Rising out of a fluid or any thing that covers or surrounds.

The mountains huge appear emergent.

1. Issuing or proceeding from.

2. Rising out of a depressed state or from obscurity.

3. Coming suddenly; sudden; casual; unexpected; hence,calling for immediate action or remedy; urgent; pressing; as an emergent occasion.

[u]Emerging Church Definitions and Links at bottom of encyclopedia page.[/u][/b]

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Emerging+Church

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Frank Viola wrote: "My friends [u]Andrew Jones and Brian McLaren[/u] have written about something they call "deep ecclesiology." This phrase appears to be derived from Noam Chomsky’s linguistic theory of "deep semantics." Chomsky said that underlying the "surface structures" of the statements we make there lies a deeper and simpler structure that is ingrained in the human capacity for language."

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Excerpts:

[b]Leadership Network Launched the Emerging Church Movement![/b]

Many think that the Emerging Church movement was started by a bunch of young people who wanted a hip atmosphere at church ... not so at all.

According to an article in the recent edition of Criswell Theological Review,written by Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill, it was the Leadership Network that initiated the Emerging Church movement. Driscoll states:

[i]In the mid-1990s I was a young church planter trying to establish a church in the city of Seattle when I got a call to speak at my first conference. It was hosted by Leadership Network and focused on the subject of Generation X. ... Out of that conference a small team was formed to continue conversing about postmodernism ...

By this time Leadership Network hired Doug Pagitt to lead the team and organize the events. He began growing the team and it soon included [u]Brian McLaren[/u]. Pagitt, McLaren, and others such as Chris Seay, Tony Jones, Dan Kimball, and [u]Andrew Jones[/u] stayed together and continued speaking and writing together as friends....

McLaren, a very gifted writer, rose to team leader in part because he had an established family and church, which allowed him to devote a lot of time to the team. That team eventually morphed into what is now known as Emergent. (Mark Driscoll, "A Pastoral Perspective on the Emerging Church")[/i]

Incidentally, in Driscoll's article about the emerging church, he left out the one element that counts the most - the emerging church's affinity with contemplative spirituality. As I have often said, remove contemplative from emerging and all you have left is coffee, couches and candles.

It is more than significant to understand the implications that Leadership Network actually launched the Emerging Church. To understand just how pervasive the connections are, it is necessary to take a look at CCN (Church Communications Network which is an Innovation Series of Leadership Network). CCN carries most of today's top Christian leaders including James Dobson, Nicky Gumbel (creator of the Alpha course) Richard Foster (a speaker for the Be Still CCN conference), various Saddleback pastors, including Rick Warren, Bob Buford (founder of Leadership Network) and the list goes on and includes several emerging leaders such as McLaren, Leonard Sweet and Erwin McManus. The point is that while many are saying they do not agree with the emerging church and what it stands for, some of these same so called critics have been behind it all along.

http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/researchtopics.htm#E

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[i]"Frankly, many of us don't know what we should think about homosexuality. We've heard all sides, but no position has yet won our confidence so that we can say "it seems good to the Holy Spirit and us."... If we think that there may actually be a legitimate context for some homosexual relationships, we know that the biblical arguments are nuanced and multi layered, and the pastoral ramifications are staggeringly complex." [/i] Brian McLaren

http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/006/ingrid/emerging.htm (from http://sliceoflaodicea.com )

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[b]The Emerging (Global) Church[/b]

Emerging Church groups have typically contained some or all of the following elements:
Highly creative approaches to worship and spiritual reflection. This can involve everything from the use of contemporary music and films through to liturgy or other more ancient customs. ...

A flexible approach to theology whereby individual differences in belief and morality are accepted within reason.

A more holistic approach to the role of the church in society. This can mean anything from greater emphasis on fellowship in the structure of the group to a higher degree of emphasis on social action, community building or Christian outreach.

A desire to reanalyse the Bible against the context into which it was written...."

Peter Drucker:[i] "Every few hundred years in Western history there occurs a sharp transformation.... Within a few short decades, society rearranges itself -- it's worldview; its basic values: its social and political structures; its arts; its key institutions. Fifty years later, there is a new world. And the people born then cannot even imagine the world in which their grandparents lived.... We are currently living through just such a transformation. It is creating the post-capitalist society.... " The Post Capitalist Society, 1993; page 1.[/i]

http://www.crossroad.to/News/Church/emergent.html

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[i]"'The kingdom of God is available to all. Believe this good news! The empire of God is now available to all!'

"The kingdom of God, the empire of God? What could Jesus mean by this? One thing is sure: he did not mean what many - perhaps most - people today think he meant.[u] He did not mean 'heaven after you die.'[/u] Maybe the meaning would be clearer if we paraphrased it like this: 'You're all preoccupied with the oppressive empire of Caesar and the oppressed kingdom of Israel. You're missing the point: the kingdom of God is here now, available to all! This is the reality that matters most. Believe this good news and follow me!'"[/i] (Ibid, p. 14) [emphasis added]

On page 18 McLaren refers to this as a "revolutionary political agenda."

http://www.rethinkconference.com/content/blogcategory/3/14/

The fact that Robert Schuller's Crystal Cathedral is hosting this Rethink conference is particularly relevant in light of his close association with Rick Warren, a relationship discussed in detail in Warren Smith's book Deceived On Purpose. Kay Warren is one of the "Leading Inflencers" invited to make a presentation at the conference. Note that many Emergent/Emerging church leaders, such as Erwin McManus (quoted above) are also presenting.

http://herescope.blogspot.com/2007/10/rethinking-and-reinventing.html

Bill Gates - funding Rick Warren's Global P.E.A.C.E. Plan, plus.

http://wall.willowcreek.com/c/blogs/leadership/default.aspx

[b]A Call To Repentance[/b]
Dave Hunt November 2006 Newsletter

http://www.thebereancall.net/podcast/nov06.pdf

[b]Roger Oakland on - How to Know When the Emerging Church
Shows Signs of Emerging in Your Church[/b]

http://www.understandthetimes.org/commentary/c54.shtml

Thanks for the warning, sis.

The trouble is that there is nothing wrong with the desire to be more flexible and re-evaluate how one "does church" (I hate that expression but can't think of a better one offhand). So many of us are no doubt tired of dead, traditional ways of "worship", where the tradition has gradually taken over the life and fossilised the church. (Like a lobster, it has to change its shell now and again or it will cease to grow and will eventually die.)

The real problem seems to be that the re-evaluation doesn't stop at outward, non-essential church customs, such as form of service, music, when or if a collection is taken, or the kind of bread and wine used at communion.

It's when the re-evaluation turns to throwing out or redefining our essential [i]beliefs[/i] we have a problem.

And it's a very very big problem.

In Him

Jeannette

Sis, there's been a rumbling in me for some time and it's increased considerably, but there are very few avenues of 'release'.
Approx. 2 years or more ago, when posting about the Emergent Church, I felt the first of the smaller quakes, but this time - tears came into my eyes. Sis - this is [i]it[/i].

This is the whore that rides the beast - not future tense - present tense - and she's been for some time now. The rider "directs". (though the beast turns on her, in the end.)

While most are looking for catatrophic events - this is slipping by without much notice.

Those Christ haters who make global decisions, will allow all the rumblings and prophecies of war or disasters to distract from this that is and has been forming - right under our noses and we've blown it all off as just some "purpose driven" thing.

It's gone way Far Beyond that. This with the CNP and Rome.

WE are in Babylon. The religion and politics of the United States is Babylon and the people don't even know it. The Word of God said that her people wouldn't even know.
All that is happening now, is not for Israel's favor, but to set it up as the International City where they plan to seat [i]their[/i] "Christ", who's waiting in the wings now.

The [i]spiritual[/i] cloud is over us already, but it's crept in slow enough and kept us distracted, that most are not even choked by it. Some feel just an uneasiness, but brush it off.

Sis, another spirit is operating to distract the majority who think they are on the right path. Jesus warned, the only thing that Would Increase, are false prophets and false teachers and false signs and wonders - but "the most" will fall away from the Truth. That's what Jesus Said. The rest will mock these false prophets as they mocked the y2k people in the end. The purpose for false prophecies is for that reason exactly - to discredit God's Word to the world.
This cloud that is covering this nation has blurred their view of the Real path - the True Jesus Christ - The Logos.
Each man forms his own view of what his "Jesus" is like and what his Jesus requires of him and others.
We need a Holy fear - and not a legalist's fear. There is a very major difference as we read in Galatians. One will save you - the other damn you.

It's not bombs we need to fear - or even the economic crash that's coming - but we do need to understand the present & coming "deception" and study it and learn about it and know it's every move, so we can save others from it.
It's creeping like a beast across this Country and spreading out to countries that are impoverished first.

All in the name of "good works".

Back in June, I knew the "Something Horrible" was the "strong delusion" being loosed.

It's just as strong on me now as it was the night it threw me out of bed and I posted it here to pastorfrin's thread on Devotional thoughts.

We need to seek HIM with all that we have, even if it means fasting and doing without quite a bit.
We need to cry out that HE not allow us to be sucked into this delusion and pray with our very lives, that we not be deceived. We're just too comfortable to think on these things. We haven't much time left before this delusion becomes "effectual". That is what "strong" means in the Greek and when God sends something that HE calls "effectual", then you know it is.

Again, our fears are not of bombs or money - they should be the fear of this DELUSION that GOD sends, "because they had not the Agape (Unconditional Love) for the True Truth."

Studying the above, is just the tip of the iceberg. I tried very hard to keep that post as short as I could.

On the link from "lighthousetrailsresearch" -- strongly recommend that folks tap into that site and watch this "contemplative spirituality" very closely.

There are many tenticles to this Emergent/Convergent's deception, that are creeping into almost every group/church.

I'd study those tenticles as much as possible.

That's the only "prophecy" I feel led to share.

We need to get to where we are not those who God spoke of, when He said, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee.."

2 Thess 2:10,11 is on us. It is part of that cloud that's spreading. The only prophecy that my spirit has born witness to, since I've been on the internet, has been A.A. Allen's. But I think the "cloud" that choked them all to death was spiritual and a spiritual death.
It took out the statue of "Liberty" first while she was in the gulf of Mexico.
When we O.K.ed TORTURE - just for one - we choked what she represented to death. She's an empty shell now and a joke to most other nations.
We don't even see what is really going in our own country, nonetheless the world. We're so blinded by this cloud, I can't understand how we are so silent over those who are starving, etc. etc., here and around the globe - but these Emergent folks have got it going now, with the help of the one-world people and are joining ranks in the name of feeding the hungry, stopping torture, and all the things we should have been doing.
No wonder how eventually, they will be killing us, thinking they are doing God a service, because of all their "righteous" works.

Babylon's destruction doesn't come until later.
When they are saying "Peace, Peace."

But first this one world religion and "governance" - when the 'most' will go along with it, because God gave them over to believe the lie - as it is written. Yes, an attack to bring us down to a one-world economic level is coming - but the strong delusion is here already, but many are still in the valley of decision and will be until they either take the mark or are killed as one of the faithful or survive until He comes, as one of the faithful.

Chris is right, in that any "outside" attacks, won't cause them to repent - but those days that come after that, are to refine the Saints and for those who were prepared for this coming period of darkness, with full lamps and extra oil, to do exploits, when the beast reigns, in the time of the deepest spiritual darkness that this world has ever seen. Bombs would be a relief to some.

Like Corrie Ten Boon said, Feed on The Word of God. The Word of Life!

John 16:13 [i]is[/i] for His Elect - as well as, "the testimony of Jesus, which is the spirit of prophecy" is for all of His, that love not their lives unto death.

Hi Ian. Haven't seen you for a while.

I guess, the only place I can agree with you is on your last line about "not arguing" and to preach a Gospel that's Biblical.

It only takes a few drops of poison in a gallon of juice to kill.

I have/had no plans to argue. But I do plan to go off-line again, in a week. Probably for good this time.
That's what I felt the Lord tell me, day before yesterday.

All His Best.
With His Love.

Annie

HE_Reigns wrote:
Hi Ian. Haven't seen you for a while.

I guess, the only place I can agree with you is on your last line about "not arguing" and to preach a Gospel that's Biblical.

It only takes a few drops of poison in a gallon of juice to kill.

2Ki 4:41
[color=990000] But he said, Then bring meal. And he cast it into the pot; and he said, Pour out for the people, that they may eat. And there was no harm in the pot.[/color]

Just remembered that it was some careless ass of a prophet who put the poison in the pot by mistake...

Mmmmm...

Annie, you're not going [i]again[/i]!!!? :-(

The world as we know it.

A growing number of well-known evangelical leaders today are teaching thousands of people that the world has a serious problem. The problem they describe is not what you might expect to hear, especially from evangelical leaders. They believe that those who claim Jesus is coming back soon and that the Earth will face a horrible Armageddon or judgment are actually the cause of the world's major problems and are prohibiting a time of great renewal from taking place. Talk of biblical end-time prophecy is considered by these men to be unnecessary and downright dangerous.

Tony Campolo in his recent book, Speaking My Mind suggests that these types of end-time thinkers are even the cause of wars. He says, "Their doctrines are a major factor in determining a far-ranging set of consequences that include American policies regarding militarism, the emergence of evangelical Zionism, attitudes toward Palestinians and the role of American geopolitics." (p. 207) He later says their "impact on geopolitics can only lead to war." (p. 215).

Rick Warren suggests that Jesus doesn't want us to even think about prophecy or His return. Warren tells us that it is none of our business. He tells us that thinking about Jesus' return is a ploy by Satan to get us distracted. (PDL, pp. 285, 286)

Richard Abanes, author and speaker, in his book End-Time Visions: The Road to Armageddon, criticizes many Christians who believe we should discuss prophecy and that there is indeed a coming Armageddon. He puts solid, Bible-based Christian leaders in the same category as cult leaders such as David Koresh, who led his group to an untimely end.

Are these evangelicals the first ones to hate the idea of Armageddon and the disaster that is coming to the world before Christ returns? In the book, Reinventing Jesus Christ, he quotes Barbara Marx Hubbard who says that those who believe in an Armageddon are self-centered people who if not stopped will actually cause a self-fullfilling prophecy to take place - the destruction of the world.

Marx Hubbard tells us of a global peace plan and she calls it an "Armageddon alternative." This alternative can actually save the world from Armageddon, she says, but only if enough people believe it and only if the world can be rid of these self-centered doomsdayers. "The species known as self-centered humanity will become extinct. The species known as whole-centered humanity will evolve.... Those who choose this version of the future will be there. Those who do not choose it will not be there." Marx Hubbard's own book of "Revelation" describes a message she received from the "Christ": "You are to prepare the way for the alternative to Armageddon, which is the Planetary Pentecost, the great Instant of Co-operation which can transform enough, en masse, to avoid the necessity of the seventh seal being broken." She continues: "Tell them to recognize the God within themselves, and to follow that light through the darkness of tribulations to the dawn of the Universal Age, when only the God-conscious continue to exist, and everyone is like Christ. Those with the seal of the living God on their foreheads will be with Christ at the time of the Transformation. I cannot 'return' until enough of you are attracted and linked."

According to Marx Hubbard it is these self-centered believers that are standing in the way. And yet in the book of Revelation, in the last chapter, Jesus says not once but three times, "I am coming quickly," while John in the same chapter tells us not to seal the words of the prophecy because the time is at hand."

In Reinventing Jesus Christ, he quotes Alice Bailey who was "told by her spirit guide over fifty years ago that the 'Forces of Darkness' would oppose the 'new gospel' and the 'New Age.' Is this new gospel and Transformation one and the same as Brian McLaren's New Kind of Christian and Emerging Church? Is it the same as Rick Warren's spiritual awakening and global Transformation? With so many similarities, one can only surmise that they may indeed be so. And if that is the case, will there be a growing hostility and anger towards those of us who say, Maranatha, come quickly Lord Jesus? (I Corinthians 16:22)

http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/worldasweknowit.htm

Barbara Marx Hubbard, author of Emergence: The Shift from Ego to Essence, and a present day mystic, publicly despises Bible- believing Christians and believes we are coming into a time period of the emerging human who finally recognizes his own Divinity.

She states: "You and I are sitting at the hub of the emerging world.... now actually evolving our human species and our world itself.... we are living through an evolutionary crisis, a crisis of the birth of something new. It is vital now that what is emerging converges, ... so that as the structures in the old system destabilize, elements of the emerging system self-organize as the new culture cocreated by a more conscious and empathetic humanity." Interview with B.M.H.

The ancient wisdom and the emerging human that McLaren and other emerging church leaders are seeking is none other than the emerging spirituality that Barbara Marx Hubbard, Thomas Keating and other New Agers practice and promote. McLaren and these "Christian" leaders will be greatly disappointed in the end and will lead thousands, possibly millions, astray. These concepts date back long before this "new" emerging church movement began.

Barbara Marx Hubbard and Brian McLaren are wrong when they teach that we as humans are emerging into something great and much better than where we are presently at. The Bible says there is nothing new under the sun. While "Christian" emergers think they are onto something totally different, totally unique, they will find that they are walking right into a trap, a trap that will hinder them from running into the arms of the only Savior and hope for man.

Deborah Dombrowski
Lighthouse Trails Publishing

http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/brianmclaren.htm

Quotes from Barbara Marx Hubbard:

"The second purpose of these writings is to call for the completion of the good news concerning the transformation of the world."
—Barbara Marx Hubbard, The Revelation, p. 74

"The alternative to Armageddon is open to you. This is why we are writing this text."
—Barbara Marx Hubbard, The Revelation, p. 264

"I did not suffer on the cross and rise again on the third day to show you what I could do, but what you can do. Yours is the power. Yours is the glory. That is my message to you!"
—Barbara Marx Hubbard, The Revelation, p. 100

http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/marxhubbard.htm

[b]Hostile Sentiment Toward "End-Time" Believing Christians - by Roger Oakland[/b]

If you haven't already noticed, anti-Christian sentiment is growing toward those who believe in a biblical last days/Book of Revelation scenario prior to Christ's return. A 2005 article titled "Lutheran leader calls for an ecumenical council to address growing biblical fundamentalism" should help convince you. The article shows not only this growing resentment towards Bible-believing Christians but also the interspiritual path this change in attitude is taking:

"The leader of the nation's largest Lutheran denomination has called for a global Christian council to address an "identity crisis" on how churches interpret and understand the Bible. Presiding Bishop Mark Hanson of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America ... called for Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Anglican and Lutheran churches to come together to combat a fundamentalist-millenialist-apocalypticist reading of Scripture."1

Hanson's request for a group to monitor and expose anti-ecumenists who take the Bible literally carries some weight! His message contains other statements showing his concern about Bible literalists--particularly those who take Bible prophecy seriously and see Israel and the Middle East crisis as an end-times sign post. The article continues:

"[M]ainline churches traditionally are uneasy with literal readings of Scripture, particularly in fundamentalist churches, regarding the end of the world and political unrest in the Middle East. In addition, mainline churches have been divided over what the Bible says about hot-button issues such as homosexuality and women's ordination."2

Bishop Hanson believes that a global ecumenical group made up of Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Anglicans, and Lutherans is the answer to the crisis he sees. Hanson calls this effort a "ministry of reconciliation," that will "result of Christ breaking down the dividing walls," and "reconcil[ing] the whole creation to God's self."3 But Hanson says that those who believe in a biblical end times and a literal Bible interpretation are counterproductive to and holding back the cause of Christ, which he suggests is to unite all of creation and produce a planetary utopia.

Incredibly, Hanson would like to reverse the outcome of the first reformation, join hands with the Catholic Church, and embrace the Eucharistic Jesus in order to bring about an ecumenical unity and the kingdom of God here on earth. He explains:

"How do we as LWF [Lutheran World Federation] member churches continue to express our commitment to Eucharistic hospitality and sharing with the Roman Catholic Church without minimizing the theological issues that remain? Will 2017 and the 500th anniversary of the Lutheran Reformation provide an opportunity for shared reflection with the Roman Catholics on our contributions and commitment to the unity of Christ's church and to the work for justice and peace in all the earth."4

In this goal to bring about the kingdom of God on earth through an ecumenical, inter-faith movement, Reverend Munib Younan, bishop of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Jerusalem, believes that those who adhere to an apocalyptic end-time scenario (with a focus on Israel) are spreading "heresy." He says they "pretend to love the Jewish people" but are "actually anti-Jewish" with teachings that are "racist." He has requested that Lutherans "alert all Christians everywhere to its dangers and false teachings."5

As I mentioned earlier in [Faith Undone], Rick Warren tells his followers that the details of Christ's return are none of our business. Tony Campolo says Christians that focus on end-time scenarios have been the cause of "extremely detrimental" consequences. One thing you will notice in the writings of most emerging church leaders is an absence of discussion on a catastrophic apocalyptic atmosphere before Christ's literal return to earth. What you will see though is lots of discussion about establishing the kingdom now and never mind thinking about life after our earthly deaths. Brian McLaren gives an example:

"The church has been preoccupied with the question, "What happens to your soul after you die?" As if the reason for Jesus coming can be summed up in, "Jesus is trying to help get more souls into heaven, as opposed to hell, after they die." I just think a fair reading of the Gospels blows that out of the water. I don't think that the entire message and life of Jesus can be boiled down to that bottom line."6

In an interview on Planet Preterist website, McLaren discusses his dilemma over eschatological-thinking believers:

"I didn't start with any interest in rethinking eschatology ... I think many of us are in this kind of rethinking process--some starting from the beginning part by rethinking, perhaps, the relation of faith and science in relation to evolution and young-earth creationism ... some starting from the middle, as they re-examine what the gospel of the kingdom of God is supposed to mean, or the idea of integral or holistic mission ... and some starting from the end, re-examining eschatology....

"Sometimes I think that people who are thoroughly indoctrinated and habituated into this kind of system will not be able to break free from it without experiencing both psychological and social dislocation and disorientation." (emphasis added)7

McLaren also says that such Christians are really going to hurt our world. He continues:

"An eschatology of abandonment, which is how I would characterize certain streams of the left-behind approach, has disastrous social consequences... Any project geared toward improving the world long term is seen as unfaithful, since we're supposed to assume that the world is getting worse and worse."8

In the interview, McLaren is asked what he thinks about a "preterist book"* that was being released. McLaren states:

"A lot is at stake in these conversations--and very literally, the lives of thousands of people hang in the balance because if the dominant religious group in the country with the most weapons of mass destruction embraces an eschatology that legitimates escalating violence ... well, I hate to think about it."9

In essence, McLaren is saying if you believe the Book of Revelation and Matthew 24 are yet to take place, you are a dangerous psychological misfit and are assumed to have no compassion for the suffering, no concerns for the environment or the world in which we live, and have the potential to blow up the world with "weapons of mass destruction." If McLaren was talking about big governments and political parties, that would be one thing, but he is clear--he is referring to Christians who believe what the Bible says about the last days.

In an article written by Rick Warren, "What Do You Do When Your Church Hits a Plateau?" Warren told pastors and church leaders not to be discouraged about slow change in their churches. He told them it would take time ... and in many cases, it would take these resisters either leaving the church or simply dying. Warren exhorts:

"If your church has been plateaued for six months, it might take six months to get it going again. If it's been plateaued a year, it might take a year. If it's been plateaued for 20 years, you've got to set in for the duration! I'm saying some people are going to have to die or leave. Moses had to wander around the desert for 40 years while God killed off a million people before he let them go into the Promised Land. That may be brutally blunt, but it's true. There may be people in your church who love God sincerely, but who will never, ever change."10

By making statements like this, Rick Warren marginalizes those who won't go along with the new reformation that he is hoping for. While Warren doesn't say that people should kill them, he does say that God may have to end their lives, just like when "God killed off a million people before he let them go into the Promised Land."

One of the tools Rick Warren uses to help churches make the transformation into the new paradigm is a book called Transitioning: Leading Your Church Through Change. Written by Dan Southerland, a Saddleback pastor and the director of Church Transitions Inc., an organization that "trains pastors and church leaders to effectively manage major transitions,"11 Southerland states in a chapter titled "Dealing with Opposition":

"We have experienced two major sources of criticism during our transitions. The first is Christians from more traditional backgrounds.... Not all of our traditional backgrounded Christians have been critical--just the ornery ones. Our second source of criticism is traditional church pastors. Again, not all traditional church pastors--just the meaner ones."12

Southerland tells readers that "some folks are going to get very angry." He likens these opposers to "leader[s] from hell." He says:

"If you have read Nehemiah recently, you will remember that Sanballat is Nehemiah's greatest critic and number one enemy. Let me put it plainer than that. Sanballat is a leader from hell.... We all have some Sanballats in our churches. This is the guy who opposes whatever you propose.... You cannot call this guy a leader from hell to his face--but you could call him Sanballat."13

The concept of get with the program, change, or die is very common in New Age and emerging circles as well--those who don't get on board (or ride the wave as Leonard Sweet puts it), will have to die. Listen to the words of New Age activist Barbara Marx Hubbard. She states:

"Christ-consciousness and Christ-abilities are the natural inheritance of every human being on Earth. When the word of this hope has reached the nations, the end of this phase of evolution shall come. All will know their choice. All will be required to choose.... All who choose not to evolve will die off."14

This sounds much like Leonard Sweet when he says, "Reinvent yourself for the 21st century or die. Some would rather die than change."15

It is quite ironic that one of the biggest complaints by New Agers and emerging church proponents alike is the black and white, either/or mindset of their critics, but in actuality, this is what they are doing themselves--telling believers to "reinvent or die." (This is an excerpt from Faith Undone, pp. 200-206.)

Thankful for your posts Broclint and Forrest.

While we've all been "distracted", the new world order is being ushered in by those who have been considered by most, to be part of "the church" and their activity level & "networking out" toward this goal has increased so much in just this past year, it would be impossible to post all of them and the vast multitude of those involved, both religious, secular and political, together working as one, toward this one goal.

I know with all of my heart, that this is the number one issue facing us all - though it is a hard subject to approach and present.

As in the posts on the previous page - I can only ask that during our days off, that we search the links given on page one and those below.
The articles by Roger Oakland and Dave Hunt and the rest listed again below, are chock full of the documentation, of how far this "religious movement" has merged with not only the New Age, the eccumenical, but now are fully active in Global political action, decision making and attempting to bring about what the Word of God tells us that only Jesus The Christ can and will bring at His Second Advent and this is the unfolding of the source of the future persecution of The Elect.

Please take this seriously and don't think that this is just another false doctrine thread.

This is the most important message I've ever personally put myself behind in my lifetime and though I'd rather sweep it out of my thoughts, I know that EVERY Christian on earth will be much affected with what is being posted on this thread ... Some swept away by it and others persecuted by it - but every single Christian on this planet will have the tenticles of this Merger touch their lives in an Eternal way.

Please be open to doing the research.

Please put all the links on both of these pages somewhere, for easy access on your computer and research this Global Religious/Political Movement as much as possible.

You all have my deepest heart felt love and prayers and always will.

I pray 2008 is a year in which the veil is rent and our spiritual eyes are opened very wide by His Spirit, to understand the magnitude of these delusions/deceptions and that we are able to educate ourselves enough to save many in our own families, fellowships and many friends. In Jesus' Holy Name. Amen.

'His' Love & Peace to you all.

[b]The Global Initiative for a new world order - brought to you by "the church" - plus - [/b]

Emergent leader Brian McLaren, in discussing “Jesus’ secret message,” said His “secret plan” was for a “spiritual revolution that would give birth to a new world” (p. 4). This is the language of the doctrine of dominionism, and his book The Secret Message of Jesus (W Publ. Group, 2006) is rife with examples. Remarks like:

[i]"God's conspiracy seeks to overturn the world as it is so that a new world can emerge." (p. 143)

"Each person can be a secret agent of the secret kingdom." (p. 83)

"God was launching a new world order, a new world, a new creation." (p. 31)

"A new day is coming--a new earth, a new world order, a new reality, a new realm--in short, a new kingdom." (p. 23)

"What is Jesus' secret message reveals a secret plan? What if he didn't come to start a new religion--but rather to start a political, social, religious, artistic, economic, intellectual, and spiritual revolution that would give birth to a new world?"[/i] (p. 4)

Rick Warren Quote:

[i]“We have what we call our ‘20/20 vision’—10 million churches with 100 million small groups mobilizing 1 billion disciples for the PEACE Plan by the year 2020. . . .[/i]

http://herescope.blogspot.com/search?q=Global+peace&x=50&y=3

http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/globalpeace.htm

http://lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/index.php?cat=10

http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/006/solidarity-1.html

http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=51

Dear my brothers and sisters, though i wanted to hug every one i saw at the confrence, i was really shy and didn't get to know most of you: Annie you changed your avatar? no wonder i had thought you were gone, and Forrest, very very glad to see you back.

let's hold on to two things and we will never go astray:

Faith and repentance.
i believe if we hold onto those two aspects of the gospel of our Lord we will never go astray. the problem i think is we don't even agree most of the time what Faith is. i will not argue what the definition the Bible for Faith is, neither the implicaitons of what that Faith would make me do, but i want to tell you something: as Rolfe Baranrd says in a good number of his sermons, if this faith that resides in me is not scandalous (notice he didn't say ridiculous or absurd, or weird or non-rational), to those that are in the world or in this emergent church movement or anyone who is in spiritual darkness, i can assure myself that i don't have the Faith that God's Word talks about. And i believe this is where we have gone wrong for so long a time not just here but everywhere in the world; for most mission agencies go with the gospel "believe" and they might as well have added the word "recite" and "you will be saved". What's so beautiful of this Faith is- every time i think of this Faith that God's word talks about, i am driven to my knees.

Brother, that is why having the Classics as a foundation here is what puts us all on safer ground and yet to know what's new and creeping in, was what most of the Epistles dealt with also. I love that balance and I appreciate the expression given to that balance.

Appreciated your words here - "-for most mission agencies go with the gospel "believe" and they might as well have added the word "recite" and "you will be saved"."

Your post reminded me of this verse - Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Thank you sb1175!

Recently, I had occasion to be posting Hebrews 11:6 which says that without faith it is impossible to please God - that we must seek Him believing 'He is'.

I don't want to divert this thread from the intent of the original poster, to awaken us to the reality of the merging of religious belief with political objectives and the extent to which these are already operational, but I noticed this in Diane's quote from Jeffrey Arthurs:

all of us need to repent and accept by faith the grace offered in Jesus Christ. Our real needs have not changed, nor has the gospel, the solution to our needs.

Nor was I trying to disagree with your points Diane, but it hit me that we arrive in this world and find ourselves surrounded by evidences of God from our earliest breath. He doesn't need to 'do' anything else to declare Himself. And Mike's point about the denial of scriptural authority rings very true.

Even as I write I can recall how fiercely during the years of my childhood, the simple observation that God made the world, the sun, mankind (and so on) drew scorn from [i]all quarters[/i] - academics and children alike (who were learning from their parents' new-found freedom to reject God) - but now with the backing of the educational establishment. All were challenging what they [i]imagined[/i] to be the faulty received wisdom of the generation previously, whom they [i]imagined[/i] had believed without cause. Isn't that the basis of all modern scepticism? Unlike the scepticism of the seventeenth century, which set out to prove God through science, we have arrived in an age where denial [i]per se[/i] is considered an academically respectable stance. Truly, the fool hath said in his heart 'There is no God'.

Let's get back to basics. Let's encourage each other to pray for wisdom and insight, that we may each slide out from under the burdens of this age, and trust God for all necessary provision to glorify His name - whether by life or by death. Amen.

[b]Make it Plain[/b] by Anton Bosch

“Write the vision and make it plain on tablets, that he may run who reads it.” (Habakkuk 2:2).

The instruction to the prophet is to make the vision plain. In other words make it simple and easy to understand so that the reader may be motivated into action. This is the calling to all preachers, teachers and writers of God’s Word. Our job is not to impress people with our knowledge and vocabulary but to communicate the message in such a way that the hearer will not only understand it, but will be able to apply it to his life.

Unfortunately, it seems that many modern “theologians” take the joke about theology being the art of making simple things complicated seriously. Take just the following statement as an example: “To envision, to energize, and to enable changes in the paradigm, mission/purpose, and culture. . . leans more in the direction of the supersensible, the intuitive, the spiritual, the metastrategic -- the magical." (John C. Hillary, in his article "Paradigm Change: More Magic than Logic") What does that really mean?

Jesus was the most powerful, wise and anointed preacher of all time but, look how He spoke: “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth…" (Mat 5;3-5). While His words were profound and life-giving they were easy to comprehend so that even children could understand Him. Those with wisdom and insight plumbed the weightiness and depth of His sayings but even the simple could understand His message. When He commissioned Peter at the sea, He did not send Peter (and us) to feed the giraffes but to feed the lambs and the sheep. (John 21:15-17). He never said a single word about how we should impress the wise and intelligent, but He said much about the consequences of causing little ones to stumble. The lawyers of Jesus’ day were very good at this game and so Jesus said to them: “Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter in yourselves, and those who were entering in you hindered.” (Luke 11:52).

Paul found himself under pressure by the philosophers to display his wisdom by clever arguments, but he too chose to only preach the foolishness of the Cross and concluded that “God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise” (1Corinthians 1:27).

So, we should be very suspicious of the motives of anyone who writes or speaks in big fancy terms as this is certainly evidence of a desire to boast of their vocabulary and knowledge, rather than communicate the truth. Peter speaks of them as "wells without water and clouds that carry no rain. They speak great swelling words of emptiness…” (2Peter 2:18). What a graphic description – big words that say nothing! Paul spoke of those who, “Professing themselves to be wise… became fools” (Romans 1:23). This is the same spirit of the antichrist who “was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies” (Revelation 13:5). No doubt, one of the things that will attract the damned to this imposter will be his convincing words. Be careful of those who exhibit the same ability as the antichrist and Satan to disguise their lies by clever speech. Paul warns against those who “do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple” (Romans 16:18).

In the past few years many of these “clever” men have also developed a whole new language that is radically different to the language of the Bible. There may be times that we have to use words that are not part of Scripture in order to describe something that is clearly taught in the Bible. Think for example, of words like “the rapture” and “the Trinity.” I am sure that it is sometimes necessary to use such words, but they should be the exception rather than the norm. However, when I try to read the writings of modern gurus, or attend their lectures, I find they have a completely new vocabulary, filled with jargon which is almost impossible to be understood by an outsider like myself. Take another look at the quote from Mr. Hillary above. Are “envision,” “paradigm,” “supersensible,” “intuitive,” “metastrategic” and “magical” biblical terms, or do they describe biblical concepts? One of them, is not even in the English language and the rest do not appear in the Bible. While most of these words seem to mean the same as similar words in the Bible, what they really mean in modern theology is directly opposite to the closest similar word in the Bible.

Unfortunately some preachers are dazzled by these fancy terms and they then begin to borrow this jargon and begin to weave it into their own messages and writings. Sometimes these parrots know what the word may mean, but often they use it without even understanding what the term really means. Of course this is not unique to theology. It is very common for journalists and politicians to do the same. I have often thought about designing a computer program that will write political or religious speeches. The program will have a basic set of fancy words, technical terms and other mumbo-jumbo which the computer will then string together at random to form sentences that really say nothing at all. I am sure we have all listened to a sermon or a speech and after 20 minutes of much hot air wondered what really was said.

I think, but could be totally wrong, that what Mr Hillary said above is: “to make changes, we need magic.” So why did he not say so? Firstly, because that would not make him sound clever and secondly, it would reveal the gross error of what he is proclaiming!

So, whenever you come across a “Christian” whose writing or speech is confusing and verbose (wordy), don’t feel inferior. It is not you who have failed to understand, it is the writer who has failed to communicate. It is not you who is stupid, but the generator of hot air is the fool. Don’t struggle with it – just let it go. If it was God’s Word, it would not be hard to understand.

If you are a speaker or writer then don’t follow the footsteps of Satan who, by playing tricks with words, deceived Eve; but follow Jesus whose Words are spirit and life (John 6:63). Let us be like the Levites, in the time of Nehemiah, who “helped the people to understand the Law… (who) read distinctly from the book, in the Law of God; and they gave the sense, and helped them to understand the reading” (Nehemiah 8:7,8).

http://www.discernment-ministries.org/HerescopeMarch2006.htm