Obsessed with looks!

What troubles me about USA (one of them) is that this culture is OBSESSED with looks!! Fashion is blown way out there...
Finney said "how would you dress if everyone were blind?" which is pride.
USA is all about fashion and the body. Even in most churches its rampent.

brent,

Ya reckon one should just be sloppy because it is repulsive? On the other hand, THIS is stylish. Man, when I was a child NO ONE would have appeared in public with holes in their jeans, or their shirt tail out...So who is proud?

Brother, you may have opened up a can of stinking fish here...

ginnyrose

ginnyrose, fish can only stink if you smell them.

Are you saying Finney is way off mark?
Are you saying Americans are not obsessed with what they wear?

id like to respond to this because Finney saw something in his time that I found that most christians today dont understand because they are spiritually discerned...
Now lets begin.
Taken from the auto biography of Charles Finney.

One sunday I preached (finney) as searchingly as I was able to the church in regard to their attitude before the world. the word took deep hold of the people.
At the close of my address I called, as usual, upon the pastor to pray. He was much impressed with the sermon and instead of immediately engaging in prayer. he made a short but very earnest address to the church, confirming what I had said to them.
At this moment a man arose in the balcony and said in a very deliberate and distinct manner, "Mr. Lansing, I do not believe that such remarks from you can do any good while you wear a ruffled shirt and a gold ring, and while your wife and the ladies of your family sit, as they do, before the congregation dressed as leaders in the fashions of the day."
It seemed as if this would kill Dr. Lansing outright. He made no reply, but cast himself across the side of the pulpit and wept like a child. The congregation was almost as shocked and affected as himself. They almost universally dropped to their heads upon the seat in front of them,and many of them wept on every side. With the exception of the sobs and sighs, the house was profoundly silent. I waited a few moments, and as Dr. Lansing did mot move, I arose and offered a short prayer and dismissed the congregation.
I went home with the dear, wounded pastor, and when all the family were returned from church he took the ring from his finger. It was a slender gold ring that could hardly attract notice. He said that his first wife, when upon her dying bed, took it from her finger and placed it upon his, with a request that he should wear it for her sake. He had done so without a thought of its being a stumbling block. Of his ruffles, he said he had worn them from his childhood and did not think of them as anything improper. Indeed, he could not remember when he began to wear them, and of course thought nothing about them. "But," he said, "if these things are an occasion of offense to any, I will not wear them." He was a precious Christian man and an excellent pastor.
Almost immediately after this the church was disposed to make to the world a public confession of their backsliding and lack of a Christian spirit.
the end

All that to say this.... a pastor who is more concerned with someone who is weaker in faith.
A church who realizes they need to love, and repents openly, with tears.
In contrast to our churches of today who have their rights, and if we say anything, anything at all they cry legalism....
Wow...
Good stuff.

Great story,thanks...Tonight a huge bag of clothes was brought to me from my daughter's friend who'd become aware that I only had a few changes,and though I could fit into my 20 yr old daughters things..she is a real clothes horse,being a model and studying acting and dance..Somehow her things did not express who I am ..too young and too tight..my choices after traveling for a while have been slim but I was not very concerned..sometimes I have an abundance of lovely clothes...that are either free or gifts or second hand..underthings are different..and sometimes I have a few changes..when i travel the clothes are geared for that function but now that I was settling (ahh)into a homelife things are different I'd been feeling content ..I wasn't being asked to go anywhere special( not even prayer walks around my new city..not yet anyway... and what I had was warm and comfortable..not especially fashionable in any stretch of the word..I could wear my one warm knit outfit if I must accompany the girls to the grocery and I hadn't found a church close enough to walk to..since I don't need wheels or gasoline for anything else..I don't have a car..don't know that I need one...bicycles are great in level(mostly flat) cities...isn't simplicity grand! anyway...I just kept trusting God saying when I needed more I'd have more ...He knows I like variety and usually material possesions flow in and out as needed without extra expense..a washing mashine and dryer showed up in the works tonight being delivered tommorrow from another friend who realized we'd moved to a place that didn't come equipped with one..and so it goes.

I was thinking today about a time when per usual I'd asked God what to wear to a woman's home, who'd asked my buddy and I to come and minister to her the day after we had delivered her 3 yr old son from a powerful demon that he was possesed with when she was pregnant and dabbling in witchcraft...what a deliverance!...well my buddy and I in different places on the property both dressed all in black believing God had specified this..and were suprised as we met to get in the car and drive up to her place to see each other matching so...When she opened the door to our knocking...her mouth dropped open and she exclaimed in wonder and near unbelief..joyous and brought to tears of realization,crying"O my God He loves me!I never knew God loved me this much To have you dress in black in honor of my mourning ..you see I didn't want to tell you why I had to have you come tonight and I wasn't going to say anything but now I will ,this is the anniversary of my fathers suicide 15 yrs ago...I found him and it is the hardest day always for me to bear..I have always felt so alone as though no one knew or cared what I was suffering...but look your clothes! God knows!" needless to say the evening got off to a great start..so clothes can be important.

I knew the "no cool clothes" thing could have bothered me alot more than it did...if I'd had a more public life at this time..but I don't..praise Jesus...and it has been so very relaxing not to have to be bothered with it at all except to keep what I have clean and try not to look too dorky for my girl's sake...ha ha ha I'll tell you what! This growing old gracefully stuff is right up my alley...what was so important once is so not priority now.
People do treat you differently though especially if you are a woman I've noticed..it's messed up but God has been gracious to keep me looking like a fresh field of lovely lilies..I know He likes us to be comfortable and modestly attired but you should see the stuff I have been given consistantly...beautifully made,wonderful materials..(expensive originally)and in perfect condition..perfectly my size as though they were custommade...coats hats shoes,boots the works!I love texture and am an artist,so color coordination is fun for me...over the years so many have even had labels that had my middle name printed there...God wants us to be balanced and blessed and not to have to feel dorky...this I know..but I have been thankful for the reminder that the clothes do not make the man/woman...He does.

brentw,

I understand what you mean when you say people are obsessed with looks.

Everyone is obsessed with hollywood and try to emulate that look and lifestyle.

And yes, it is in the Church also. It seeped in, just like everything else the world does seems to seep into the Church.

We are not talking about having a godly standard of dressing here. We are talking about emulating mindless worldly fashions that are designed to show their disdain, rebellion and hatred toward God.

God help us that we do not follow the world and become satan's puppets just as the world is.

God bless

brentw, My first instinct to Finney's remark was that if all were blind, people just may not wear anything (especially in Mississippi in the heat of the summer), which will bring one to the issue of why clothes are worn at all. We all know God decreed it because of sin in the garden. Actually, Adam and Eve designed the first clothes but in God's sight they were inadequate to do the job. God took charge of their wardrobe and fashioned coats for them.

Since God is interested in how we dress do you not think one should look to the Word for guidance and inspiration in how to dress?

The fact that the world is obsessed with clothing is no joke. You can not pick up any secular magazine, newspaper in which fashionable clothing is not being promoted. And for what reason? To make people discontent with what they have so they will buy more! It is all about selling, making money: got to make people discontent with what they have so they will buy more. That is one reason why the styles have to change because many people do not want to look like a dork. Pride fuels this trend. The drive to be superior to others is pride. Now, how can you separate it from wanting to look nice?

Brentw, what are you thinking?

ginnyrose

Hi folks. I'm not from the US, but as I'm sure you are aware, the UK has a very similar culture to the States.

ginnyrose wrote

The fact that the world is obsessed with clothing is no joke. You can not pick up any secular magazine, newspaper in which fashionable clothing is not being promoted. And for what reason? To make people discontent with what they have so they will buy more! It is all about selling, making money: got to make people discontent with what they have so they will buy more. That is one reason why the styles have to change because many people do not want to look like a dork. Pride fuels this trend. The drive to be superior to others is pride. Now, how can you separate it from wanting to look nice?

This is well discerned. The whole thing is a terrible deception. The whole business world seems to have thrown all morals out the window for the sake of making money. It doesn't seem to matter to them that there are many vulnerable people out there, especially young people, who are heavily influenced by these slick marketing campaigns.

I'm convinced that Satan works on the hearts of these influential marketeers (I don't think that is actually a word) in their executive offices. But they'll face a terrible judgment one day and we should pray for them.

The world of fashion is a world that the true Christian simply can't fit into. His/her spirit should be crying out against it or there is something radically wrong with their walk with God. The fact that churches are given over to these fashions and trends is a sign of increased worldliness within the church (Laodicea). This is fast approaching epidemic proportions and is something that grieves all true believers.

However.....

To say that people shouldn't be concerned with their looks is very easy. In reality however we all have insecurities about how we look. For some these are understandable concerns.

'It's what's inside us that counts' I hear the cry. This is true, but I think it's easier for some of us to say than others. It's a difficult area and we should be slow in criticising.

This need is why we see a huge increase in cosmetic surgery and all sorts of useless beauty products. It's a huge industry now. But I know I'm guilty myself of purchasing these products.

In conclusion I would say that yes the fashion world is out of control, but we should be careful not to overlook the genuine concerns of some who have huge difficulties about the way they look.

As far as being dressed respectfully in church, I personally think it is admirable to be dressed neat and tidily. After all we are coming to meet collectively with a holy God. I always think that if I was going to meet the Queen (or correspondingly for you the President) I wouldn't dress in ripped jeans and a shirt.

David

David,

You made a lot of excellent points. Here is one quote I would like to comment on:

'It's what's inside us that counts' I hear the cry.

Jesus tells us that out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. Which would mean that the way we dress indicates what resides in the heart, right?

Did you know the concept of 'dressing up' for worship service has its roots in the OT? Exodus 19: 10-11: And the LORD said unto Moses, Go unto the people, and sanctify them today and tomorrow, and let them wash their clothes, And be ready against the third day: for the third day the LORD will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai.

ginnyrose

ginnyrose, You know what Finney was driving at. I do think women are alot more concerned about looks then men are...satan knows that men have problem with their eyes.
I see a women all decked out in church and all the men gaze at her and have made herself and act of worship.
Womens clothing is tighter every year and more skin showing every year. (frog in the water Ill)
Tanning booths, beauty shops, nail salons ect...are everywhere.
Yes, guys wear pants that let underwear show.
You know well as I do that Paul preached modesty. Another words let the heart look most attractive to Christ and I'm sure our clothing will be descent but not immodest. :-D

brentw,
Yes, I have an idea what Finney was driving at, but I responded to the way it was worded.

While the fashion industry is propelled by greed, it would stand to reason lust would have to rear its ugly head in to determine what the styles should portray.

Back in the 60s Mary Quant introduced the mini-skirts. Her motive was so people would know who 'is available' for sex. Brother, even though I am a female, I am just as disgusted with immodesty among females as you. Too many females will say "yes, I will follow the current fashions but will not follow the extreme styles" which puts them on an slippery slope from which it is very difficult to escape. I heard David Wilkerson say back in the 70s a person should look in the mirror and ask the LORD to reveal to him/her whether this attire is pleasing to Him. Makes a lot of sense - and I have never forgotten that.

women are alot more concerned about looks then men are...

I cannot resist making a comment on this! I am married to a man who definately needs a female to give him guidance on how to dress! :-P Even after 40 years...{{sigh}}

ginnyrose

ginnyrose, We are the same page. 8-)