New Calvinistic song

It's a good thing that a balanced reading of the bible will yield both calvanistic and arminian interpretations of salvation.

I've been reading a lot of DL Moody recently, and he was very much an Arminian, during one of his sermons he talked about people's doubts that they cannot accept Christ because they are not pre-destined. His answer to that was, paraphrased 'Jesus stands at the door and knocks, if you open the door He will have a meal with you... do not tell me that Christ is not knocking at the door of your heart, *knocking his hand on the podium as if a door* if you have heard this sound, you have heard His knocking, to refuse Him entry is the primary selfish act that will deny you your salvation.'

Compliments,

In response to John 6:65 I counter with 2 Peter 3:9 [i]The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, [b]not willing that any should perish[/b], but that all should come to repentance[/i].

God has by this verse predestined everyone, it is our own free will to deny this relationship.

The bible can be read and understood to be correct by either a Calvanist or a Arminian, but in doing so, both parties deny clearly contradictory verses.

In regard to the trinity, the decision was made during the early ecumenical councels to adopt an approach of 'mystery.' I.E. no ammount of human speculation or formulation can fully understand all the workings of God with regards to his persons.

The same balanced approach needs to be taken in regard to predestination, we could quote verses to eachother all day supporting one party over another, but the truth of the matter is that these verses are all in the bible -so how should they be read? They should be read in light of eachother, and the conclusion is: we just can't know.

And if we just can't know, how should we respond? We shouldn't separate ourselves by parties in regards to a doctrine that we cannot be sure of. I think it was AW Tozer that said 'I'd rather be an Arminian than a dead Calvanist' and Paul Washer said something to the effect of 'If I was going to start a church and had to decide between 10 Arminians and 100 Calvanists, I would choose the 10 Arminians.' I also heard someone once say that 'In the closet when I am on my face before God, I am a Calvanist because I cannot deny the omnipotence of God, but when I am preaching the Gospel I am an Arminian, because that is the way that Jesus introduced Himself to man.'

AW Tozer in his book 'Knowledge of the Holy' works in one of the chapters to reconcile Calvanism with Arminianism in an illustration. We are all traveling on a boat in one direction, towards God, and our decision to stay on that boat or jump off into the water is our own free will, Arminianism.

When the bible apparently contradicts itself there is usually more to the story than 'these verses are right and these verses are wrong.' I challenge anyone who is a Arminian to read the bible as a Calvanist, and anyone who is a Calvanist to read the bible as an Arminian. Without knowledge of both sides of the the coin of salvation we are unprepared for what the world may bring at us.

Calvanistic churches tend to die slow painful deaths because they do not have strong evangelical principles to keep them growing. Arminian churches flirt with heresy because they often put too much within man's power in regards to his salvation and sanctification... there is a balance in between.

Apostle Paul wrote Romans, so he must have been an Calvanist, but he was also a great missionary taking the word to all manner of people, so he must have been an Arminian. Whatever you're looking to find you will find... if you look at Paul through the lenses of an Arminian you will see an Arminian zealous missionary, if you look at him through the eyes of a Calvanist you will see a staunch Calvanist. But we would be denying Paul his true identity, which is somewhere in between.

We need to stop reading our bibles with party glasses on.

Do I detect a note of sarcasm? Actually, this is very good - if you have a sense of humor. The point is very well taken. I love it!

ginnyrose

PS: Writing any more songs, or poetry? Give us more - and be sure to include satire or sarcasm! (Remember God used these approaches to challenge people - can be found in Isaiah.)

HI everyone.

Ginnyrose,

"Remember God used these approaches to challenge people - can be found in Isaiah"

[i]...but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.[/i]

by iansmith on 2007/12/27 9:20:50

We need to stop reading our bibles with party glasses on.

i like the quote (can't remember it that great) that says something like:

pray like a calvinist and preach like an arminian.

we would do well to be balanced in this issue.

phil

Ok, so here's an Arminian song-

And now, the end is here
And so I face the final curtain
My friend, I'll say it clear
I'll state my case, of which I'm certain
I've lived a life that's full
I traveled each and ev'ry highway
And more, much more than this, I did it my way

Regrets, I've had a few
But then again, too few to mention
I did what I had to do and saw it through without exemption
I planned each charted course, each careful step along the byway
And more, much more than this, I did it my way

Yes, there were times, I'm sure you knew
When I bit off more than I could chew
But through it all, when there was doubt
I ate it up and spit it out
I faced it all and I stood tall and did it my way

I've loved, I've laughed and cried
I've had my fill, my share of losing
And now, as tears subside, I find it all so amusing
To think I did all that
And may I say, not in a shy way,
"Oh, no, oh, no, not me, I did it my way"

For what is a man, what has he got?
If not himself, then he has naught
To say the things he truly feels and not the words of one who kneels
The record shows I took the blows and did it my way!

While I'm here, allow me to ask you all a question. When the Egyptians were drowned in the Red Sea, was it against their "free will"?

I mean they probably wanted to continue living and harming the Israelites right? But their will was never allowed to decide their fate, and God never checked with them to make sure He could drown them first.

How about the Pharisees? Didn't they want Jesus to remain dead? Did God run it by them first and get their permission to raise Christ?

No? How dare He inflict His will upon them!!

Seriously, I am shocked by the lack of any Biblical exegesis used to disprove Calvinism, and no simply quoting 2 Peter 3:9 does not clear up anything. Anyone can take a verse out of context and make it say anything. This verse in its context is written to "the elect", and Peter is letting them know, that none of the elect shall perish, but will come to repentance.

To make is mean that God wills for every human that has ever lived to come to repentance is not the logical or Scriptural conclusion. If so, then we see God as a deranged fool who though he wanted Pharaoh to come to repentance then goes on to say, "I created you for this very purpose."(Which was not salvation)

We also have Judas Iscariot who Jesus said was "the son of perdition", and that he(Judas) was fulfilling Scripture by being just that.

Seems God does what He wants with whom He wants, when He wants. Why? Because all things are created by Him, for Him, and for His glory, He is God, we are not.

Why is it none of you can keep from adding your log to the fire.

So long as you do don't claim you're burning something for the Lord.

I don't know why you want so much to be known as a Calvinist?

Sister I could care less about being known as a Calvinist.

What upsets me is the condescending, and oft times humiliating way in which men who hold to Reformed, Lutheran, or Calvinist ideas are treated here.

It's as if only those who agree with Finney and Wesley are allowed to say anything, and anyone speaking to the contrary are shunned or poo-pooed into thinking they are the "heretics", when in truth, 500 or so years ago the men that are so heralded by many here would have been branded as heretics.

There is no common ground between Calvinism and Arminianism, nor does Scripture teach this. Sadly we all use the same terms with different meanings. For example when I speak of grace, I mean God's regenerating, and sustaining work in a person's heart.

The Arminian has more of a Roman Catholic view of grace, that being something a person must cooperate with in order for it be effective.

When we speak of justification, we speak of two different ideas. I say justification is a once for all declaration of innocence which is made real by faith. Whereas the Arminian would say justification is only as good as the person's sanctification. Again this is more inline with Roman Catholic doctrine than Scripture.

The blatant disregard for serious exegesis(taking out from the text), and the heralding of isogesis(reading into, or putting into the text) is absolutely mind boggling.

Maybe it's time I go, I don't know. I have and do enjoy many of the brethren here. But I see a very dangerous trend developing here that was common in the times of Luther and Calvin.

The idea that no one needs to be taught, and that God can speak to individuals, and they can be the sole interpreter of what is being said without any regard for Biblical truth, or being consistent with the Bible's teaching is dangerous. Sadly I in the past followed such ways, and have realized that it led me to more rebellion than anything else. I became one who "got it", while others did not.

People filled my ears with garbage about me being a prophet, and blah, blah, blah....

And I failed miserably at everything my hand touched. All praise to Him who caused this failure, for had He not, I surely would have been lost because I was trusting in my works, and not His work alone.

He has saved me! Not because I am good, or because I made a decision for Him. But because He fore-loved me while I was yet a sinner. All I brought to the equation was my sin, and damnation.

Blessings and grace to you.

I prefer this Calvinistic song by Cowper...

"There is a fountain filled with blood"

There is a fountain filled with blood drawn from Emmanuel’s veins;
And sinners plunged beneath that flood lose all their guilty stains.
Lose all their guilty stains, lose all their guilty stains;
And sinners plunged beneath that flood lose all their guilty stains.

The dying thief rejoiced to see that fountain in his day;
And there have I, though vile as he, washed all my sins away.
Washed all my sins away, washed all my sins away;
And there have I, though vile as he, washed all my sins away.

Dear dying Lamb, Thy precious blood shall never lose its power
Till all the ransomed church of God be saved, to sin no more.
Be saved, to sin no more, be saved, to sin no more;
Till all the ransomed church of God be saved, to sin no more.

E’er since, by faith, I saw the stream Thy flowing wounds supply,
Redeeming love has been my theme, and shall be till I die.
And shall be till I die, and shall be till I die;
Redeeming love has been my theme, and shall be till I die.

Then in a nobler, sweeter song, I’ll sing Thy power to save,
When this poor lisping, stammering tongue lies silent in the grave.
Lies silent in the grave, lies silent in the grave;
When this poor lisping, stammering tongue lies silent in the grave.

Lord, I believe Thou hast prepared, unworthy though I be,
For me a blood bought free reward, a golden harp for me!
’Tis strung and tuned for endless years, and formed by power divine,
To sound in God the Father’s ears no other name but Thine.

I prefer this Calvinistic song by Cowper...

"There is a fountain filled with blood"

ps can we please just call it a christian's song? do we have to put a label on it? oh, i hope not.

thanks again mike,
phil

Roaringlamb,

[b]This got my sympathy[/b]: 'What upsets me is the condescending, and oft times humiliating way in which men who hold to Reformed, Lutheran, or Calvinist ideas are treated here.'

[b]Then this lost it[/b]: 'The Arminian has more of a Roman Catholic view of grace, that being something a person must cooperate with in order for it be effective.'

Paul Washer said that in his prayer he was a Calvinist and in his preaching he was an Arminian, I have to agree that I feel the same way. I'm not going to deny either one, but there is a balance to both. You're so quick to plead for sympathy, then rashly you trash talk the other party.

'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you,' I think that's a primary teaching of our Lord. If you want the respect of others, give them more respect, maybe more than they deserve. [b]Until you can show respect to others, don't complain that you don't recieve any[/b].

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, I think that's a primary teaching of our Lord. If you want the respect of others, give them more respect, maybe more than they deserve. Until you can do that, don't complain.

Brother Ian, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it would be a lie to call it any thing other than a duck.

The truth is the truth, Arminians as well as Roman Catholics subscribe to Prevenient grace which must be cooperated with in order for a man to begin his salvation. Then, he must be sanctified in order to be justified.

Sad, but we have lost alot of ground in the last 500 years, and in the wrong direction.

Grace and peace to you