Ministry founder: U.S. Christians 'absolutely not prepared' for persecution

sermonindex wrote:

[b]Ministry founder: U.S. Christians 'absolutely not prepared' for persecution[/b]

The founder of Gospel for Asia says while persecution is increasing worldwide for Christians, he believes it will soon impact believers in America -- and K.P. Yohannan says they need to get ready for it...he believes Christians in America will soon be faced with persecution as well -- and he is fearful that many are not ready.

"The great falling-away from faith could be worst here in [America] because people are absolutely not prepared to face suffering or persecution -- because we cannot imagine a gospel with the cross and the suffering in it," says Yohannan. "Yet the Bible teaches very strong about it. So as the Word of God says: He who has ears, let him hear."
It is estimated that more than 16,000 Christians are martyred worldwide each year for their faith.

from: http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/12/ministry_founder_us_christians.php

Yes, and more to come. Somehow, many in North America seem to think that 'It could never happen here!'

Other's just think we'll all get out without a scratch before the Anti-Christ(singular, world-leader) sits down in the Temple that some Jews are so hopefully building.

And as much as I'd like to get out on the Angel Express before anything happens to any of us, I am not afraid to admit...I'm afraid!

Even so...Come quickly, Jesus!

Blessings,

Forrest

I'm not sure one can prepare for persecution. I do believe that you can disciple your thinking to stay the course and than do just that, but at the moment of the crisis event there will also be a supply of God's grace. Enduring hardship as a soldier of Christ is another thing, many in America have never counted the cost to follow Jesus, they will grow weary of the journey and just plain stop following Jesus, especially as He exacts a life style of self denial the longer one genuinely follows Him. I would say that in America the biggest obstical will be the dissolution that will set into many who have been following Jesus under FALSE pretenses. As a country America has embraced a self centered gospel rather than a gospel of the cross.

It does strike me as strange that the one who emptied himself to be born of a human and walked the earth, basically with nothing,lived and died as the ultimate sacrifice.
This Is our leader our God and our example.
Persecution takes away options.
We can humble ourselves now or be humbled by .........
In a sense our destiny is determined by us.

David

I'm not sure one can prepare for persecution. I do believe that you can disciple your thinking to stay the course and than do just that, but at the moment of the crisis event there will also be a supply of God's grace. Enduring hardship as a soldier of Christ is another thing, many in America have never counted the cost to follow Jesus, they will grow weary of the journey and just plain stop following Jesus, especially as He exacts a life style of self denial the longer one genuinely follows Him. I would say that in America the biggest obstical will be the dissolution that will set into many who have been following Jesus under FALSE pretenses. As a country America has embraced a self centered gospel rather than a gospel of the cross.

I agree although I think this is the key: "I'm not sure one can prepare for persecution. I do believe that you can disciple your thinking to stay the course and than do just that" to whatever preparation there could possibly be done.

In the meantime, we need to be yoked together with the LORD and not worry.

Have a blessed year!
ginnyrose

compliments, Read the 7 letters to the 7 churches. Then tell me we have absolutely no impact on our own destiny.
Would "future" be a more appropriate term?

Why would God have intercessors if it were not for answered prayer.
Moses stopped God From wiping out an entire race

David

Hi everyone.

The Lord said

[b][color=660033]Sufficient unto the day [i]is[/i] the evil thereof. [/color][/b]

Good word, good reminder :-)

ChrisJD wrote:
Hi everyone.

The Lord said

[b][color=660033]Sufficient unto the day [i]is[/i] the evil thereof. [/color][/b]

Hello brother, The One who said that, He also said:

Mat 24:44 Therefore [b]be ye also ready*:[/b] for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

*G2092

ἕτοιμος
hétoimos; fem. hetoímē, neut. hétoimon, adj. Ready, [b]prepared[/b] (Mat_22:4, Mat_22:8; Mat_24:44; Mar_14:15; Joh_7:6; 2Co_10:16). Preceding an inf. meaning ready to be done (1Pe_1:5); of persons (Mat_25:10); with prós (G4314), unto, with the acc., [b]ready for anything [/b](Tit_3:1; 1Pe_3:15); followed by the inf. meaning ready to do (Luk_22:33; Act_23:15); with the inf. implied (Act_23:21). [b]To become ready, be prepared [/b](Mat_24:44; Luk_12:40; Sept.: Exo_19:15; Exo_34:2). The expression en hetoímō échō (en [G1722], in; hetoímō [the dat. of hetoímōs] échō [G2192], to have) [b]means to have in readiness, be prepared[/b] (2Co_10:6).

Deriv.: hetoimázō (G2090), [b]to prepare;[/b] hetoimasía (G2091), [b]preparation;[/b] hetoímōs (G2093), ready.

Syn.: próthumos (G4289), predisposed, willing; katērtisménos (the perf. pass. part. of katartízō [G2675], [b]to prepare), prepared;[/b] kateskeuasménos (the perf. pass. part. of kataskeuázō [G2680], [b]to prepare[/b]), [b]prepared[/b], made ready, [b]equipped[/b]; pareskeuasménos (the perf. pass. part. of paraskeuázō [G3903], [b]to prepare[/b]), [b]make ready, prepared, ready[/b].

[b][i]Antonym.[/i]: aparaskeúastos (G532), [u]unprepared.[/u][/b]

Hi brother Kire,

Thank you for that.

Is that what we are doing here, getting ready?

Also brother Kire, isn't that passage talking about being ready for His return?

Do you think that would include speculating about persecution?

Thanks,

Chris

EDIT: by the way, I appologise if anyone saw me on-line and was waiting for me to reply. I fell asleep for a while.

*G2092

ἕτοιμος
hétoimos; fem. hetoímē, neut. hétoimon, adj. Ready, [b]prepared[/b] (Mat_22:4, Mat_22:8; Mat_24:44; Mar_14:15; Joh_7:6; 2Co_10:16). Preceding an inf. meaning ready to be done (1Pe_1:5); of persons (Mat_25:10); with prós (G4314), unto, with the acc., [b]ready for anything [/b](Tit_3:1; 1Pe_3:15); followed by the inf. meaning ready to do (Luk_22:33; Act_23:15); with the inf. implied (Act_23:21). [b]To become ready, be prepared [/b](Mat_24:44; Luk_12:40; Sept.: Exo_19:15; Exo_34:2). The expression en hetoímō échō (en [G1722], in; hetoímō [the dat. of hetoímōs] échō [G2192], to have) [b]means to have in readiness, be prepared[/b] (2Co_10:6).

Deriv.: hetoimázō (G2090), [b]to prepare;[/b] hetoimasía (G2091), [b]preparation;[/b] hetoímōs (G2093), ready.

Syn.: próthumos (G4289), predisposed, willing; katērtisménos (the perf. pass. part. of katartízō [G2675], [b]to prepare), prepared;[/b] kateskeuasménos (the perf. pass. part. of kataskeuázō [G2680], [b]to prepare[/b]), [b]prepared[/b], made ready, [b]equipped[/b]; pareskeuasménos (the perf. pass. part. of paraskeuázō [G3903], [b]to prepare[/b]), [b]make ready, prepared, ready[/b].

[b][i]Antonym.[/i]: aparaskeúastos (G532), [u]unprepared.[/u][/b]

"[b]ready for anything [/b]"

Is that what we are doing here, getting ready?

Good question Chris.

I am disturbed at how "prophecy" is becoming the dominant theme here at SI. In my experience, this trend invariably displaces a Christian's rest in biblical certainty with conjecture and even superstition. Once we start playing in the sandbox of guessing what is coming, we have no foundation of 'knowing' what we believe in our faith. We still claim we rest in the bible, but in truth we are bobbing on an ocean of feelings.

I've said this before but the point needs to be made again. The recent experience with our brothers Rhaman and Ironman is not just about them but also about us. My goodness, they've tried to repent but we won't let them, insisting they have prophesied afterall! How confusing this must be for them.

This need to look for prophetic glimpses of the future is extra-biblical and can only lead to erosion of our confidence in Christ. This nervous preoccupation with fortune telling is not the gift Paul was encouraging the church to practice. It is a superstition that says we are supposed to know what is going to happen every step of the way. Soon we find that almost everyone is elevating their own thoughts (fueled by everything but the bible)into messages, albiet vague and polluted, from heaven. They mistake their ordinary pathologies for extraordinary propecies. The fact that they are wrong doesn't matter because everyone is fearing the same things, and that settles the matter. Once we depart from the simple biblical path we have little defense against our pathologies.

So all we can offer one another is "is it God or is this just me? I don't know but I'll share my vision anyway and place the burden on someone else." This is supserstious bondage. I've seen this play out many times in individuals and in local bodies. It's insidious.

If we are not careful SI will become the Elijahlist for pessimists.

I've mentioned this in another thread, and it bears repeating here; there is an eschatological theme in the gospel where we know that Jesus will overthrow this world as he crushes Satan under our feet. This thread of victory running from Genesis to Revelation is what we are given to rest in. The bible does not inform specifically us about America's dollar, or any other modern news story. To say it does, but that it is encoded or hidden is to do a terrible injury to the clarity of God's Word.

We need to get a grip on our emotions and imaginations. If persecution, or famine, or whatever does come, we can't afford to be led by these frantic prophets (so they say) who will only have even more speculation to offer the church. Instead, we will need leaders whose inner man is rooted not in CNN, but in disciplined and faithful knowledge of Scripture. Are we Christian men who seek to live firmly within the provision of scripture or are we pathological pagans trying to make sense of bones and entrails?

Repent Sermon Index of this nonsense. Otherwise you'll be little light in a world already filled with dark fears.

MC

ChrisJD wrote:
Hi brother Kire,

Thank you for that.

Hello brother Chris, I would like to add few more thoughts that I had last night (but went off-line), about my comment on your post.

You shared:

[b] Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. [/b]

I shared:

Mat 24:44 [b] Therefore be ye also ready:[/b] for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

I think the we must see the context of the both verses. The context of the first verse is:

Mat 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, [b]What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? [/b]

The context is here is not to care about our daily material things, eating, drinking, clothing.

The context of the second verse is the coming of our Lord which is preceded by persecution of the saints. And in that light our Lord is saying 'be ye ready'. We are not said to care about the material things. But obviously about something else, on which we have need to be ready, because the Lord said so. What it means to be ready and prepared? I think that's a good question with crucial importance.

ChrisJD wrote:

Is that what we are doing here, getting ready?

I don't know brother. I would like to.

Before to see this thread, last year, I had in my heart to start a thread just about that, 'Preparing for the days coming'. I shared this with few saints. I was inspired when I sent you the PM with the Richard Wurmbrands sermon. My point was all of us to share things, sermons, articles, passages, for encouragement of the Body seeing what our precious brothers has went through. Surely this has been given to us and we must not ignore it (I mean those testimonies).

And in every seasons and times,

2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, [b]My grace is sufficient for thee:[/b] for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

I posted this article on my xanga a couple of days ago and someone asked a good question: should we prepare for persecution or should we prepare to meet Jesus? Here is was my response:
--------------

My thoughts on preparing for persecution are pretty much the same as preparing to meet Jesus- because when I say 'preparing' I mean spiritually prepared. I mean holding all things on this earth with an open hand (material, relational, everything) When we hold to things too tight, we are making an idol out of them anyway. I believe that Jesus should look more lovely, more valuable to us than anything on earth.

I think K.P. Yohannan is saying that American christians are not prepared because they are too attatched to material things, to comfort- but also are spiritually unprepared to suffer. The messages coming out of many pulpits and books is that all trials, tests and suffering comes from the devil. All you have to do is look up the words 'test', 'tests', and 'trials' in the Bible and we can plainly see that God does allow us to be tested - for our good and His glory. So that we will grow in patience and perseverence- two things that are vital, not only to living the Christian life, but also vital for enduring persecution.

I like the way John Piper talks about having a 'wartime mentality' in some of his books. I can honestly say I do try to live with this mentality all the time. If I catch myself holding on to something too tight- if I think I can't bear to part with this or that (including family) then I know I've lost my wartime mentality and it's time to get back to Jesus being my greatest treasure alone.

"...that you develop a wartime mentality and lifestyle; that you never forget that life is short, that billions of people hang in the balance of heaven and hell everyday, that the love of money is spiritual suicide, that the goals of upward mobility (nicer clothes, cars, houses, vacations, food, hobbies) are a poor and dangerous substitute for the goals of living for Christ with all your might and maximizing your joy in ministry to people's needs." - John Piper

How wonderful if persecution never comes in our lifetime. How gracious God would be to keep our land free at this time. That very may well be the case. But we don't know if that will be the case in our children's generation or our grandchildren's generation. The thought pushes me even more to make sure my children's faith is solid- that they do not grow comfortable, that they learn about missionaries and great saints of old who suffered for their faith. It is sooo important that they do not get this idea that the Christian life is all about comfort and happiness and God forbid- the American dream. Yes, the Christian life is about joy and peace- but I believe that Christians can still have joy and peace amidst suffering, amidst trials and amidst persecution. Paul did. Peter did. Many others who have walked before us on this path have had immense joy and peace though they walked through the valley, were burned at the stake, hung, crucified, eaten by lions. --Ok, I'm sure you get my point :)

I don't like to sound depressing here. There is much to live for and much to be joyous about in this life. It's not something I think about everyday-"will persecution come today, next year, in 10 yrs?" But I do believe that if we are living with a wartime mentality, with an open hand and fully surrendered to the Lord, we won't worry about it- but we will be as prepared as we can be. God's grace will do the rest.

[url=http://youtube.com/watch?v=K5yJGFKYAFo]John Piper- Wartime Lifestyle[/url]

In His love, Chanin

Hi brother Kire,

About the Matt 6:34 and the context. That is a good point, but I think verse 34 maybe enlarges subject to the evil of every day in general? Still, I take your point.

About Matt 24:44, doesn't the Lord indicate how they were to be prepared in the next verses? I think that persecution is mentioned in the beginning of the discourse, but I'm not sure that was in view there specifically?

Something that used to trouble me when I spent alot of time looking into these things(the headlines, news watching, websites and so on) was the source of the information I was getting. It almost seemed like there was a danger that I was listening to the enemies plans and then repeating them as though they were certain to happen?

I said wait a minute, that just didn't seem right?

Take care for now,

Chris

I do feel compelled to say something about the 'American dream" I mentioned in my last post. I have to be honest and say that when most poeple would look at our family and our home- it looks like the American dream. We didn't purpose to do this or seek it out. All I can say is that God has blessed my husband (and our family) with a wonderful business. My husband owns his own company (an electrical and mechanical company servicing industires such as Toyota, Home Depot, ect....) Have I felt guilty in the past for having what we have- yes. I am very cautious about getting everything we 'want' and trying to buy only what we need. But the Lord has reminded me many times of Dan's (my husband) opportunities to be a giver. And that is his main gift. Though he works alot and is very involved with his company, he loves to give and help people out. God has used Dan's business many times to witness the love of Jesus to others. We have been able to be a blessing to others when needs arise.

If we wanted I know we could have a bigger house (and our house is not tiny now) and better cars (though we don't drive junkers). I could be getting my nails done and by expensive makeup and having someone clean my house, etc... But i choose to do only what is necessary. And by someone elses standard- that still may be too much.

My point is how we hang onto to these things. Would i be heartbroken if we had to live in a tiny apartment (with 3 children) or only have 1 car, or buy all my clothes from salvation army? Those things don't define my life and my focus. I can be happy anywhere, with much or little (I've had very little and much). My prayer is that no matter how you live (with much or little) that you hold all these things with open hands. All things could be taken away at any moment.

I like how John Piper says that his idea of a wartime lifestyle is not necessarily a 'simple' life- which is fine if you choose that- but one where we use the things we do have in a way that shows that HE is our treasure and not those 'things'.

In His love, Chanin