Hi! Everyone
I am new on this chatroom and I wanted to engage ourselves into this topic...I have read some of the OLD aguements some of the members had on this subject...
Until proven otherwise...I don't believe that I should keep the Sabbath.
1. I believe that Christ is our Sabbath.
2. (Col 2:16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Welcome to SI! I hope you are blessed by what you find here.
What kind of proof are you looking for? It seems that people on both sides of this issue have Scripture to back up their stance...
Thank you for responding.Hug!
I need scriptural proof that is not taken out of context.And proof that Jesus did not disregard the Sabbath...Of which when we look at the scriptures of the N.T.,they lean towards the the fact that "the Sabbath should not be kept".
Sorry for taking long to respond.Hug!
Hi there
This has been discussed at length here - there was a thread recently... Do you know how to do a search? There's a small box at the bottom of the main forum page. Put in "Sabbath" and title only to narrow down the possible threads.
Not having taken much part in any discussion on this subject, I would like to make a few comments re my personal "take" on this:
1. The Sabbath, though also one of the Ten Commandments, is actually a [i]Creation
2. It has been shown, by experimantal changing of the length of the working week that one day of rest in seven is the ideal for our bodies and minds. In work situations, any less rest than that makes for less efficiency, not more.
3. "Sabbath" means "cessation". Not cessation of all activity, but cessation of the work of Creation in God's case, [i]because it was all finished
4. That's why Jesus said, when criticised for "working" on the Sabbath, "The Father works even until now - and I work". His hearers understood perfectly that He was claiming to be God! (By the way, Jesus didn't deny that this was [i]exactly
5. The Sabbath was the first full day of life for Man, wherein he presumably rested [i]with
6. When Jesus died He said "It is finished!" And because it was finished He also "rested" from His completed work of redemption.
7. But "on the first day of the week" He rose. The significance is that this was trhe beginning of a NEW Creation. He is the "Firstborn from the dead" as Paul puts it. Later He breathed the Holy Spirit into His disciples; as in the old creation when, God breathed physical and soulish life into Adam.
8. Therefore, the first thing we need to do when born again of the Holy Spirit, is to learn to "rest" with Him.
9. This is spoken of in Hebrews 4, "entering into his rest" - ceasing from doing our own thing and partaking of His victory over sin and Satan.
[u]Conclusion:
It is [i]good
But this is much less important than the spiritual keeping of the Sabbath.
As Hebrews says: "There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he who is entered into his rest hath also ceased from his own works..." (quoted from memory, I have to go to work but gives the meaning if not the exact words)
Blessings
Jeannette
I need scriptural proof that is not taken out of context.And proof that Jesus did not disregard the Sabbath...Of which when we look at the scriptures of the N.T.,they lean towards the the fact that "the Sabbath should not be kept".
Well, in other discussions of this topic, both sides have had what they considered 'in context scriptural proof' of their point of view. I hope you find what you are looking for. :)
HopeDollar wrote:Until proven otherwise...I don't believe that I should keep the Sabbath.
1. I believe that Christ is our Sabbath.
2. (Col 2:16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
1. You believe Christ is our Sabbath-what scripture in the Bible verbally says that, or gives that as an expressed thought?
2. Col 2:16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
This is Paul talking about the sabbath days(plural) that were associated with the Mosaic Law and ordinances-There was a Sabbath Day given prior to the 10 Commandments and prior to the Mosaic Law-that Sabbath, which is Saturday-Paul is not talking about.
I know this from the pattern of his speech in Col 2:16-he is talking about eating and drinking, and holy days(feast days), then he mentions "Sabbath Days"-read anywhere in the Old Testament where there was a feast day, and you will see either a sabbath the preceeded the feast day or came after it, but this Sabbath wasn't the 7th Day Sabbath-these were special sabbaths attached to various feasts and fetivals.
Example: Lev 23;24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation. (this was not the creation Sabbath-but a special sabbath)
Let's not forget either, that the Children of Israel did keep the Sabbath, EVEN BEFORE THE 10 Commandments was given-(referring to the Sabbath instituted at creation.
Ex 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning
The 10 Commandments were not given until the 20th Chapter of Exodus-this is why the 4th Commandment starts out by saying " REMEMBER the Sabbath day to keep it Holy" (you can only remember something your are already familiar with or experienced)
Hopedollar, yes i believe you are 1/2 right. the reason for the 1/2 is that Jesus came not to destroy the law but to fulfill it.
So yes Jesus is the fulfillment of the sabbath and it is no longer a day but a person.[to the redeemed]
He is also the fulfillment of "firstfruits"
He is salvation.
He is resurrection
We tend to look at spiritual things backwards.
Sometimes there is a clue in turning things around.
Consider the Hebrews strict guidelines of the sabbath [in order to have complete rest] almost defeating the whole purpose.
This is a picture pointing forward to Jesus [our total and complete rest]
So yes Jesus is our sabbath rest.
But remember we still have the law.... but for the redeemed the LAW GIVER lives in us who is greater than the law
Make sense?
David
colossians 2:16 "Therefore let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,
2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ".
dear blazedbyGod, please notice how paul talks about the feasts (annual days) new moons (monthly days) and sabbaths (weekly days). this is the thought that this verse follows. because of what Christ has done, we should not be judged by what we observe or do not observe, by what we eat or drink or what we do not eat or drink. they were merely a shadow, a sign to point to Christ. He is truly the end of the law.
like paul says in romans 14:17 "For the kingdom of God is not food or drink, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit". that verse cuts through to the heart of it all. Christ is our life, our love, our salvation, our everything.
He is our All in All.
brother, we are gonna disagree over this and that's alright, but let our heart be knit together pursuing Him more than we ever have. nice talking to you brother.
phil
Looking back over my post here I must be more or less on "both" sides.
MSeaman wrote:in other discussions of this topic, both sides have had what they considered 'in context scriptural proof' of their point of view. I hope you find what you are looking for. :)
As I said, resting, ceasing from our usual work, having a break, whatever, for one day in 7 is good for us. But not as a legalistic rule that we [i]must
Remember that Jesus said "the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath."
in Him
Jeannette
PS I haven't given chapter and verse because of lack of time. I can almost never remember the exact reference (a small degree of "number blindness" maybe) but can look them up if you would like. Pm me...
Thanks for the reminders, especially that the OT "Sabbath" wasn't only the seventh day, but at other festivals. Holidays were literally
BlazedbyGod wrote:2. Col 2:16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
This is Paul talking about the sabbath days(plural) that were associated with the Mosaic Law and ordinances-There was a Sabbath Day given prior to the 10 Commandments and prior to the Mosaic Law-that Sabbath, which is Saturday-Paul is not talking about.
I know this from the pattern of his speech in Col 2:16-he is talking about eating and drinking, and holy days(feast days), then he mentions "Sabbath Days"-read anywhere in the Old Testament where there was a feast day, and you will see either a sabbath the preceeded the feast day or came after it, but this Sabbath wasn't the 7th Day Sabbath-these were special sabbaths attached to various feasts and fetivals.
Example: Lev 23;24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation. (this was not the creation Sabbath-but a special sabbath)
Let's not forget either, that the Children of Israel did keep the Sabbath, EVEN BEFORE THE 10 Commandments was given-(referring to the Sabbath instituted at creation.
Ex 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning
The 10 Commandments were not given until the 20th Chapter of Exodus-this is why the 4th Commandment starts out by saying " REMEMBER the Sabbath day to keep it Holy" (you can only remember something your are already familiar with or experienced)
in Him
Jeannette
mark 2:27 for ya sister.. thanks for that verse..Remember that Jesus said "the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath."PS I haven't given chapter and verse because of lack of time. I can almost never remember the exact reference (a small degree of "number blindness" maybe) but can look them up if you would like. Pm me...
phil
Quote:
"""He is our All in All.
brother, we are gonna disagree over this and that's alright, but let our heart be knit together pursuing Him more than we ever have. nice talking to you brother.
phil"""
Amen and being our all in all, He is also our Sabbath, the Person of our rest.
In Christ: Phillip
Hi Everybody, Please allow me to make a comment in regard of the first message in this thread.
HopeDollar wrote:
Until proven otherwise...I don't believe that I should keep the Sabbath.
1. I believe that Christ is our Sabbath.
2. (Col 2:16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
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Dearest sister.
This is my understanding of what Paul was refering in Col 2:16...
Firstly,
I believe that there were two different Sabbaths.
The first One.
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Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
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This is the first Sabbath.
Created and sanctified by God.
Created when sin did not exist.
Created when man was perfect.
At this point, men did not need Jesus as a saviour, so it cannot be included in the category of shadows of things to come. Remember what Paul says on verse 17?
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Colossians 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.
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So, the Seventh day Sabbath, cannot be included in that list of things that pointed to Christ.
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The Second type of Sabbath.
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Leviticus 16:29 In the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all,
Leviticus 16:31 "It is a sabbath of solemn rest for you, and you shall afflict your souls.
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I will list just one but you can read all the other different sabbaths that were feasts of the lord in Leviticus. But look what they were supposed to do in these feasts.
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Leviticus 16:29-30 you shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether a native of your own country or a stranger who dwells among you. 30 "For on that day the priest shall make atonement for you, to cleanse you, that you may be clean from all your sins before the LORD.
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See here.
These sabbaths were given to Israel after sin.
then....
Man had sinned.
Man needed atonement for his sin.
Man needed a saviour.
Atonement for sin only through blood of the lamb.
All these feast sabbaths pointed to Christ.
These were shadows of things to come.
and also they had food offerings and drink offerings, All these things pointed to Christ as well, all of them were shadows of things that were to come.
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Now, I want you to look at this very carefully.
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Nehemiah 9:14 You made known to them Your holy Sabbath.
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Here Nehemiah clearly said that the Sabbath Day is not only Holy but it belongs to God, It is a God thing.
And it is so important to God that He was willing to take someone's life to inforce it.
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Numbers 15:32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day.
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and we know what happened then.
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Numbers 15:35 Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp."
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My question to you is.
Why was this story told to us?
Why did God write this to us?
Was God trying to show us that He is a tyrant or was He trying to show us that He means business when it comes to His Holy Day?
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In the other hand We have this account in regard of the the other feasts and Sabbaths.
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Isaiah 1:13-14 The New Moons, the Sabbaths, and the calling of assemblies -- I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred meeting. 14 Your New Moons and your appointed feasts My soul hates; They are a trouble to Me, I am weary of bearing them.
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Look what God says in Hosea.
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Hosea 2:10-11 Now I will uncover her lewdness in the sight of her lovers, And no one shall deliver her from My hand. 11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, Her feast days, Her New Moons, Her Sabbaths -- All her appointed feasts.
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Here is Hosea, it clearly makes a distinction between, sabbaths that are part of the feasts. The sabbaths that were going to be stopped were the feasts. Not the SEventh day Sabbath.
My question to you is.
Knowing that in God there is no shadow of change.
Do you think that God would be willing to, in one point kill someone and in another say that His Soul hates the very same thing that He was willing to kill?
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Dearest sister,
If I failed to make you see that there is a very distincted difference between the Seventh Day Sabbath and the Sabbaths that are part of the feasts of the Lord.
And even if you think that we no longer need to keep the Sabbath as in a way of showing obedience to His laws. I would like you to look at it in this way.
Sister, There is a couple of blessings for those who keep the Sabbath. Let's not look at it as in something that it is required of us but let's look at it as in a very special blessing that was promised to us, should we keep the Sabbath Holy. Here they are......
First Blessing...
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Isaiah 56:1-7 Thus says the LORD: "Keep justice, and do righteousness, For My salvation is about to come, And My righteousness to be revealed. 2 Blessed is the man who does this, And the son of man who lays hold on it; Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And keeps his hand from doing any evil." 3 Do not let the son of the foreigner Who has joined himself to the LORD Speak, saying, "The LORD has utterly separated me from His people"; Nor let the eunuch say, "Here I am, a dry tree." 4 For thus says the LORD: "To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, And choose what pleases Me, And hold fast My covenant, 5 Even to them I will give in My house And within My walls a place and a name Better than that of sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name That shall not be cut off. 6 " Also the sons of the foreigner Who join themselves to the LORD, to serve Him, And to love the name of the LORD, to be His servants -- Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And holds fast My covenant -- 7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain, And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices Will be accepted on My altar; For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations."
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Remember that on verse 6, it talks specifically about me, the foreigner that join Himself to the Lord. This is me.
and the blessing, I will give in My house and withing My walls a place and a name better that of sons and daughters. I will give Him an everlasting name that shall not be cut off.
Doesn't it make you want to keep the Sabbath Holy?
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Here is the second blessing.
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Isaiah 58:13-14 " If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, From doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight, The holy day of the LORD honorable, And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways, Nor finding your own pleasure, Nor speaking your own words, 14 Then you shall delight yourself in the LORD; And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth, And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father. The mouth of the LORD has spoken."
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Again God says: from doing your pleasure on
(MY HOLY DAY). Then you shall delight yourself in the LORD; And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth, And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father. The mouth of the LORD has spoken."
Doesn't that alone make you want to keep the Sabbath?
Even if I did not believe that we have to keep the Seventh Day Holy, Which I do. I would still keep the sabbath holy only for these two reasons that I just gave you.
I do want to have a special name within the wall of His temple, and I want to delight myself in the Lord and ride on the high hills of the earth.
Now I cannot find anywhere in the bible where these two promises are no longer valid.
If you can find it please let me know.
In Fact, We have a confirmation for the same promise in revelation.
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Revelation 2:17 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written which no one knows except him who receives it." '
Revelation 3:12 "He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. And I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.
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Remember the blessing in Isaiah?
Isaiah 56:5 I will give them an everlasting name That shall not be cut off.
Now you can choose not to keep His Holy Day but look at the blessings that you are not including yourself.
God Bless you and all of Us.
Isaiah 56: 6-7
Also the sons of the foreigner who join themselves to the LORD, to serve Him, And to love the name of the LORD, to be His servants -- Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And holds fast My covenant -- Even them I will bring to My holy mountain, And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be accepted on My altar; For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations."
Dear jayyou,
Thank you for your encouraging and instructive post. I appreciate the Isaiah passage that you quoted, and truly love to remember the 4th commandment.
I would also like to add this verse, which highlights that the Sabbath is a sign....
Exo.31: 16: Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
17: It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever.
Messiah also said this:
Matt.19.16: And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17: And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God:
but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments...
Sharon
For some excellent reading on the topic of the Sabbath I have provided a link to a web site that is the ministry of a former Seventh Day Adventist minister who has been gloriously set free, I know because he happens to now be my pastor...
[url=http://www.exadventist.com/Home/Sabbath/tabid/53/Default.aspx]ExAdventist.com
In Christ,
Ron
Hi jayyou,
Shortened some of your breaks ========== here. It is unintentional I recognize, but what happens when they are too long or overlap succeding lines is to make the page "Go wide" or out of proportion to the thread.
Just a heads up. The preview button is also very helpful.
Doesn't that alone make you want to keep the Sabbath?
"Does God require Sabbath-keeping of Christians?"
In Colossians 2:16-17, Paul declared, “Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.”
Similarly, Romans 14:5 says, “One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.” These Scriptures make it clear that, for the Christian, Sabbath-keeping is a matter of spiritual freedom, not a command from God.
In the Book of Acts, the first Christians were predominantly Jews. When Gentiles began to receive the gift of salvation through Jesus Christ, the Jewish Christians had a dilemma. What aspects of the Mosaic Law and Jewish tradition should Gentile Christians be instructed to obey? The apostles met and discussed the issue in the Jerusalem council (Acts chapter 15). The decision was, “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood” (Acts 15:19-20).
Sabbath-keeping was not one of the commands the apostles felt was necessary to enforce on Gentile believers. It is inconceivable that the apostles would neglect to include Sabbath-keeping if it was still God’s command for Christians to observe the Sabbath day.
A common error in the Sabbath-keeping debate is the concept that the Sabbath was the day of worship.Those like the Seventh Day Adventists holds that God requires the church service to be held on Saturday, the Sabbath day. That is not what the Sabbath command was.
The Sabbath command was to do no work on the Sabbath day (Exodus 20:8-11). Nowhere in Scripture is the Sabbath day commanded to be the day of worship. Yes, Jews in Old Testament, New Testament, and modern times use Saturday as the day of worship, but that is not the essence of the Sabbath command. In the Book of Acts, whenever a meeting is said to be on the Sabbath, it is a meeting of Jews, not Christians.
When did the early Christians meet? Acts 2:46-47 gives us the answer, “Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.”
If there was a day that Christians met regularly, it was the first day of the week (our Sunday), not the Sabbath day (Acts 20:7; 1 Corinthians 16:2). In honor of Christ’s resurrection on Sunday, the early Christians observed Sunday, not as the “Christian Sabbath,” but as a day to especially worship and glorify Jesus Christ.
Those who practice Sabbath-keeping should not judge those who do not keep the Sabbath (Colossians 2:16).
Galatians 5:13-15 sums up the whole issue, “You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
Katy
well said katy. i think that was a very well said post.. thank you for that.Sabbath-keeping was not one of the commands the apostles felt was necessary to enforce on Gentile believers. It is inconceivable that the apostles would neglect to include Sabbath-keeping if it was still God’s command for Christians to observe the Sabbath day
i think this is a point that is often left out. just like the sabbath year (7th year) of working the land. it was a year of rest, not a year of going to the temple and worshipping everyday. it was to give the land rest and God supplied a double abundance on the 6th year so that they could rest the land on the 7th for it was a sabbath year. sabbath meaning rest, not sabbath meaning going to church and worshipping.A common error in the Sabbath-keeping debate is the concept that the Sabbath was the day of worship.Those like the Seventh Day Adventists holds that God requires the church service to be held on Saturday, the Sabbath day. That is not what the Sabbath command was.The Sabbath command was to do no work on the Sabbath day (Exodus 20:8-11). Nowhere in Scripture is the Sabbath day commanded to be the day of worship.
i guess i just wanted to say thanks katy for pointing that out. again, it was well said.
phil
Exodus 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a PERPETUAL covenant.
What does perpetual mean?
Also I would like to say, the Sabbath was NOT created for Jews ONLY, it was CREATED FOR MAN-(not Jews)
Specifically, the Sabbath was instituted right after the making of Adam-Adam worked, he TILLED the ground, therefore it is likely that even Adam kept the Sabbath, and everyone BEFORE the Abraham, including Abraham himself.
The Children of Isreal did not keep the Sabbath per se because of the 10 Commandments, they observed the Sabbath EVEN before they were given the 10 Commandments.
well said katy. i think that was a very well said post.. thank you for that.
LoveHim wrote:Sabbath-keeping was not one of the commands the apostles felt was necessary to enforce on Gentile believers. It is inconceivable that the apostles would neglect to include Sabbath-keeping if it was still God’s command for Christians to observe the Sabbath day
A common error in the Sabbath-keeping debate is the concept that the Sabbath was the day of worship.Those like the Seventh Day Adventists holds that God requires the church service to be held on Saturday, the Sabbath day. That is not what the Sabbath command was.
phil
This is because at that point Gentiles already knew about keeping the Sabbath.
Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the GENTILES besought that these words might be preached TO THEM the next sabbath.
Exodus 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy STRANGER that is within thy gates:
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