Joel Osteen claims on Fox News that Mormons are Christians too...

I believe in miracles.

When I am placed in a civilian detention camp, I believe that I could be roomies with Joel. I will ask him if he would like me to bribe the guard in to getting us a copy of "Your Best Life Now".

it appears to me that either he is incredibly ignorant, incredibly gullible, or incredibly deceptive.

I like the use of the word 'incredibly' here.

Brother, I've pondered this for a while. I kinda hope it is one of the first two. He's a family man and there's no doubt his ministry does a lot of good work around the world. He seems to court popularity with the world though. He's 'everybody's favorite pastor'.

The verses that come to mind are Matthew 7v13-15

[i]13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.[/i]

'few there be that find it'. That's quite scary, but it's not going to change. These megachurches contradict this. Their ministry appeals to our flesh nature (not all though).

Wolf in sheep's clothing he may be. To state that Mormons are Christians is to deceive the world. No doubt about it. Their doctrine is from the pit.

Other verses that come to mind are 2 Timothy 3v12-14

[i]12Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

13But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;[/i]

Wow, the Bible really sums it up doesn't it. I just pray one day he'll see his error and have the courage to tell his congregation. What a witness that may be.

Joel would probably argue that he interprets scripture different to me (which he does) and that's his right. There's a lot of good people in his congregation though who aren't getting fed proper doctrine (imho) and it's tragic to think of the souls that may be lost.

I want to give him the benefit of the doubt though and will do. Many have told me I'm too soft because I do this, but I just feel we must be extremely careful in questioning these people. They may in fact be God's people, but perhaps just in a state of disobedience.

To know the truth is a wonderful born again privilege and we must use this discernment wisely. I've said before on this site that there was strong, vociferous reeling against the Roman Catholic Church here in Northern Ireland. Scripturally it was correct, but a fierce, bitter 'war' ensued and we now have generations who have bitterness bred into them. i.e. I feel it backfired horrifically. I know this topic is not particularly relevant to this thread, but it just makes me very wary of the best way of handling opposition to false doctrine. Grace should be at the forefront.

David

You know what's funny is all this "exposure" everyone speaks of it's like free advertising for the Church I feel we will need the old Astrodome soon the way it's growing go figure, by the way why always Pastor Joel "all the time" here? read my signature line. I tell you what, I will meet you half way you find me another Church in Houston that the Pastor teaches flawless gospel I will change Churches "You have my Blessing on finding that".

Look for all you that continue to expose Pastor Joel faults why not expose you own along with his, You know I have said this before and I will say it once again that I will "never" leave Lakewood Church if you knew my testimony and how I ended up there you "might" understand but I doubt it, so if anyone is thinking there "exposing" of my Pastor will ever change my mind please don't hold your breath. We have "some" of the most unforgiving so called Christians here that just continue to stir not "sincerely" expose it's unreal, I am sure Jesus would do the same thing right? yea.

If all you exposers used your time to be more valuable way for Gods kingdom he would probably Bless you so much with all the good things to do for his Kingdom you would not even have time to get bored and dig up stuff. I know you will never understand this because folks the continually waste their time degrading folks instead of praying for them probably are not the kind that would understand, but trust me one day you will be dealt the same in life folks will expose and degrade you my guess this would fall under you "will" reap what you sow, I did not say that or Pastor Osteen but God did.

Look you better think God "if you are a Christian" you don't have a microphone hooked up to you for the world to hear everything you say, because if you did I am sure you would never say anything bad again about anyone unless maybe your a Politician they do it all the time.
I think that people have gotten so caught up in certain of their ideas being “true” or “right” that they have lost the most true and right ideas of all, that we can find truth in many of the famous pastors in America if we would only take off our critical lenses for one minute.

Do you give God a chance to work in your life? Or do you expect microwaved, freeze-dried, instant results? well if you do why not give "God" a chance to work in Pastors Joel's life.
How would you like it if you and your spouse were having some serious problems and you were both praying for God to mend or work out your relationship problems, but in the mist of your prayers you have your buddy's telling you, man that girl is a nut case did you hear what she told so and so you need to find you another woman, this is the same thing you are trying to tell me as I keep my Pastor in prayer, look your a so Christian and love God and he is your Lord and savior and you trust him right? well why in the heck don't you trust him to help Pastor Joel? I will never figure that out your like the Christian at the buffet, I will take a little of this and some of that, well hopefully Jesus will not treat your life as a buffet and give you a little of this and a little of that when he really wants to Bless your socks off, good Lord folks give God a chance don't try and be God.

davym wrote:
I just pray one day he'll see his error and have the courage to tell his congregation. What a witness that may be.
David

David this is the attitude of a real man of God to do just this, you have a sweet spirit and a total understanding of how Prayer can work I can see that, please do the Christian thing and keep Pastor Joel in prayer and don't let the nay sayers lead you let God lead you.
God Bless
Mr. Bill

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Instead giving evidence of Joel's teachings to show us that we may be wrong about him, you turn it into a personal thing against us.
Krispy

Ok I will answer this for you, but my guess is you will not understand but I will say it anyway. Look I have given my Pastor to "GOD" through prayer to work out and God don't need "any" of my help in exposing either the Pro's or the Con's of Pastor Joel, I know you won't understand this.

KrispyKrittr wrote:

David this is the attitude of a real man of God to do just this, you have a sweet spirit and a total understanding of how Prayer can work I can see that, please do the Christian thing and keep Pastor Joel in prayer and don't let the nay sayers lead you let God lead you.

So can I assume that you're saying this is not my attitude? How would you know this?

Krispy

No! I was just speaking in general nothing personal at all you know better than that. :-)

KrispyKrittr wrote:
As your brother I feel the need to warn you that your defensive posture when Osteen is mentioned smacks of "cult of personality".
Krispy

Thanks Brother I am glad you warned me because I would have never known put some things in writing.
I sincerely appreciate your warning, but should I listen to you or God? God is telling me to hang in there that he is still working on pastor Joel, now krispy is telling me to leave that nut house, well lets see I will flip a coin what should I do? :-(

Look for all you that continue to expose Pastor Joel faults why not expose you own along with his,

Fair point brother. I've plenty of faults.

Can I ask you Mr BillPro. Are you agreeing with Joel's stance that Mormons are Christians? Would you promote their doctrine to further the cause of Christ? or if given the opportunity on national tv would you gracefully point out that you don't believe you can be saved by works (probably wouldn't get aired though). I've never had this chance, but Osteen had and he missed it.

Ephesians 2:8-10 (KJV)

[i]8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.[/i]

why not give "God" a chance to work in Pastors Joel's life.

Another fair point, but if what you are saying is that he is immature in the faith then I'd question whether he should be on a platform leading a massive congregation and being broadcast worldwide.

What I say won't change any of that though and I hope and pray that you'll continue to grow and be blessed at Lakewood

God Bless

D

By the way. I have to admit that I went to see Joel when he came to Belfast. £12 ($22) I think it was. He and his family are lovely people. Please don't get me wrong. And please don't let this thread become a bickering ping pong match. That's an age old problem that destroys our Christian unity.

I'm sorry if I've offended anybody.

Remember, God will not go into anybody's little box. That's for sure.

davym wrote:
Can I ask you Mr BillPro. Are you agreeing with Joel's stance that Mormons are Christians? Would you promote their doctrine to further the cause of Christ? or if given the opportunity on national tv would you gracefully point out that you don't believe you can be saved by works (probably wouldn't get aired though). I've never had this chance, but Osteen had and he missed it.

Another fair point, but if what you are saying is that he is immature in the faith then I'd question whether he should be on a platform leading a massive congregation and being broadcast worldwide.

What I say won't change any of that though and I hope and pray that you'll continue to grow and be blessed at Lakewood

God Bless

D

David maybe I am wrong here in saying that I should not be commenting either way while I have my pastor in prayer but I don't understand is this not the right thing to do? I have always been taught since I started going to Church back in 1958 that when you give things to the Lord to work out you give him 100% not 99& and you take the other 1% and help God.

I have Pastor Joel in prayer and I should not be commenting at all really God really does not need my help does he? David have you "ever" said anything you regretted and wished you could have back? my guess is you have "many" times in your life we all do, but hopefully if and when you do, you ask God to forgive you through Prayer and if your saved and have trusted Jesus as you Lord and savor he will forgive you.

If some here have such a desire or calling as they would say to expose Pastor Joel the Bible says "confront" him first this is the first Biblical step, and if your not taking the steps the Word says to take, in my opinion you just blowing hot air.

Be a man or woman of God and take the steps God says to take if you have an issue with someone and if you don't know what these scriptures are well read my signature line. In my opinion and I am sure in Gods also, if your putting the cart before the horse in scriptures, now your at the scripture buffet table I will take this scripture and that one and no I don't won't that one.

edit: David maybe this will help,

Mat 18:15-17 "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. {16} "But if he will not hear you, take with you one or two more, that 'by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.' {17} "And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector."

(1) To maintain peace in the body of Christ (Eph. 4:1-3). Whenever there is friction and turmoil in the body it hinders people from entering into worship and receiving from God's Word. It hinders people from coming to Christ, creates an uninviting atmosphere for visitors, and can even grieve the Holy Spirit (Eph. 4:30-32).

(2) So Satan cannot gain advantage over us (2 Cor. 2:10-11). For our own spiritual well-being, we must be quick to resolve our differences with brethren and forgive. Satan can hinder our spiritual life, and even deceive us into apostasy, through harbored bitterness or unforgiveness (Matt. 18:35).

(3) To restore a Fallen Brother (Gal. 6:1). Christians must make every attempt to restore brethren who fall into sin. Especially when the transgression has been committed against you personally, your love for your brother's spiritual well-being demands that you confront the brother so that he might be reconciled to God.

Point taken Mr BillPro.

Hiding behind the keyboard I guess you could say. I'm sure he's well aware of the opposition to his ministry. I'll maybe just leave it.

davym wrote:
...continue to grow and be blessed at Lakewood

Dear David, may I ask you..

Are you serious with the Scriptures? Are you deadly serious and in agreement that what the word of God says and declares is the truth?

Have you received the gospel lightly or you have entered the strait gate? Brother, have you believed in a sugar gospel or are you walking the narrow way, the way that is "through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God."?

Are you walking the way of suffering, that you may reign one day with Him?

Brother, if the answers of these questions are yes, then how can you say that someone can grow and be blessed* under preaching which is enemy of the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ? Under preaching of another gospel, not the Gospel of the Bible, but gospel of demons? Dear David, when you read 2 Tim. 4:1-5 what the gentle voice of the Spirit is whispering to your heart?

Brother, is this hard word?

*Some translations are translating the word blessed into happy. That's not true. You can be happy one hour or one year and sing and clap and jump, but you cannot be blessed, to be blessed is a spiritual state.

Tears_of_joy wrote:
Dear David, may I ask you..

Are you serious with the Scriptures? Are you deadly serious and in agreement that what the word of God says and declares is the truth?

Or we could put a spin on this:
Dear Tears, may I ask you..

Are you serious with the Scriptures? Are you deadly serious and in agreement that what the word of God says and declares is the truth?

If so well follow what the scripture say in sequence if you have an issue with someone
Mat 18:15-17 "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. have you done this? if not your not serious with "your" scriptures, that bottom line.

tears you have an issue with Pastor Joel? well go tell him privately or you not following the scriptures your at the scripture buffet table.