Leonard Ravenhill comes to mind;
"[i]The question isn't were you challenged. The question is were you changed?[/i]"
Hi elanham,
Seems you would be one to make a better assessment with your long engagement. And that now the validity of it all coming into question is telling ...
Something about 'movement's' in their own right generally doesn't sit very well, who is engineering them? We often hear of "God [i]is[/i] moving ______" here, there and everywhere, but is it indeed valid? Is it just simply zeal, even well intentioned at that?
That is a difficult comment I recognize if everything is to be painted one way, surely even a thirst for revival could likewise be accused or misinterpreted. Maybe the question I would ask is ... Does it run it's own course? That is, well perhaps the word itself, [i]movement[/i], does it move of it's own volition or is it simply something that is being drummed up, worked up, as you stated or even perhaps alluded to, a building up of excitement, emotions and so forth? What's left at the end of the day? Or four months down the road, a year later ...
Would imagine that this is also very hard to quantify individually ... drawing out more questions then answers here.
If I was to push this towards the matter of revival, from everything I have ever read or studied of it, there was always a very real objective and subjective change brought about. That may have little to do with these types of gatherings or it may not, as someone mentioned, why do we even seek such things? Change is the large reason if I had to be pressed on it, that as a result even if it was not foremost in the front of the mind ...
Maybe an example would be better. The recent Revival Conference that was put on by SI. It's intents and purposes were set forth, but not stringently and for myself I came, even the question itself came ... 'for what reason?' and the only answer I could give was that I could do no other, I had to be present and I came as if it was the culmination of all these years here in a sort of encapsulated form. Yet, that is not the half of it. To 'meet' those I already knew from eternity past is something even the statement itself falls short of. Still, this also falls short. Forgive me of once again trying to say too much all at the same time here.
"Expectant" is a tremendous word and if anything I am curiously of a mind, especially of late, to be almost always expecting the unexpected of the Lord. This walk so far continues to be one full of surprises. There is this tremendous element of faith that anticipates that which it knows not. That also has put me somewhat back on my heels when it comes to so much future casting in all it's variety, just much of an observation to wards this penchant to be on the cutting edge of whatever it is that "the Lord is doing". Be that either to what is perceived as 'coming' or to supposedly what is present. Is it so? That must be something of a draining question to some ears if it implies that every nuance is called into question or a predisposition to suspicion ganders everything. That, is really not the motivation.
Relating back to the conference ... Even with it's partitions or parameters set forth the sheer beauty of it all was that it wasn't set forth as a calling God down out of Heaven to give us a revival as such but that a variety of understanding was presented from many a different perspective on just what revival is. I would say that just as many had hoped and\\or prayed that perhaps it might even come or maybe could be birthed from within it's setting. It was in great part very "hands off" in that respect, "What might the Lord do?". Likewise, I do not know of any grand disappointment that a revival didn't break out over those three days.
It has been just about 3 months now and still the memories are fresh. There was something very intangible that occurred and is still occurring. It was more than just a meeting or a conference and yet the fact does remain that is indeed what it was. What did you get and what did you give comes to mind, is it truly enough just to be present?
Art Katz used to often express in his meetings or gatherings, even the smallest of them by calling them 'events'. Depending on ones disposition and perspective this was either a bit of hyperbole or dare I say ... truth. The couple of times I was blessed to hear him speak were indeed events and eventful. Nothing of the style or manner, the excitement aroused as that is mentioned here, quite the opposite. In both instances the largest gathering may have been 40 people. In the first he must have spoke for close to four hours and I felt very disappointed when he brought it to a close, truly it was as if he had barely gotten underway. To this day and this is now some years removed there are things well entrenched into the marrow from this seemingly innocuous little gathering. That the Lord would take him home so recently now only magnifies it all, exceeds what was very exceeding to begin with and carried about all the preceding years. Now, am I waxing eloquently or emotionally or did something very real and true take place?
It's the intangibles. The atmosphere. The small things that are so profound. The love of God expressed through the brethren, be they pastors or speakers or just those of us who hear and pray, encourage one another, give and take ... participate?
Surely I must be well all over the place here indiscriminately.
Evidence. Maybe that is the summary of it all. Is there any? Is it true and real and ongoing? Or is it merely a kind of contorted form of entertainment with Christian overtones? It does raise the question of what worship [i]is[/i] just as well, something that seems well out of proportion in sheer definition, meaning now music almost exclusively, another subject in it's own right.
Is it merely vain as you observed?, it is a very good question. Did some journaling during the conference and maybe it is attributable even here, this section from T. Austin Sparks;
[color=0000CC]We have to pray it in and pray it out, and I feel that [u]after[/u] a conference the thing to do is to get to prayer more than ever on the ground of what has been said, and take that up before the Lord. If we did that, how much more fruit there would be from our conferences! Instead of having truth in our notebooks we would have it in our lives. Instead of so much more truth that we have now become acquainted with, we would be entering into the working power of that truth if we came back with it to the Lord in prayer. No one is more conscious of the need of having things said to him on this matter than I am at this time, but we are speaking together of these things and I trust that we are all taking them to heart. Oh, for the day when, not for the sake of numbers (for it is not a matter of counting heads) but because of the recognition of the pre-eminent place of prayer, the prayer meeting will be as crowded as any conference gathering! It only needs the apprehension of God's estimate of prayer, and we shall regard it as at least as important as any conference meeting with a theme and an address. [i]The Lord burn that into our hearts, for that is the preeminent work - prayer.[/i] [/color]
[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=20214&forum=35&start=10&viewmode=flat&order=1]Canton Journal[/url]
