ecumenical movement

Hello brethren and sisters in the Lord Jesus.

I have a concern, in my country there is as i think also in most parts in the world an ecumenical movement. Uniting different churches and denominations to one so to speak. My concern is as in Sweden now the free-churches as we call them, baptists,pentecostal, methodist and similar branches are now inviting Orthodox Swedish churches and priest, Catholics to join in in worship meetings and prayer meetings.

I am deeply concerned that in the very noble act of overlooking differences we at the same time are overlooking scripture and in "loves" name we compromise what God has said in order for us to have "unity"

It is my firm belief the true church never was divided and there fore need not to be united. I also predict not many years from now, we will have one church in Sweden.

what i am wondering if any of you has noticed this trend? what your thoughts about it is? and what says scripture about this?

Christian

Christian,

It is so common here in the States. Now let Krispy see this, he will love to tell you how bad it is.

The reality is that when you stand for TRUTH, the apostate church will either not want anything to do with you or will try to woo you to entice you away from your position as God's church.

Christian, I thought Sweden had a state church? Am I wrong?

ginnyrose

we do, or we had a state church, they recently came under same category as the rest. I think it separates to some degree from state. It came from Luther and the reformation...but has begin marching back into catholicism ,when entering one you will find a statue of mary and light a candle to her, or some of the saints for protection and so on. And you have a number of very unscriptual things going on there....

but they had their thing going on, but now the "fundamental" churches, that now in my opinion are a cross of WOF and Emergent here, embracing this also....so we have this mix.... and then me who are against everything or have a problem with everything...... i think ive been to much on SI :-P

but seriously, i have deep concerns and a great burden for this.

And since you will be labeled very "unloving" and "judgmental" and "extreme" if you dont welcome everyone with open arms, or point out infant baptism isent really to be found in scripture, or most of the catholic teachings.....

but i am no prophet, i just use my logic and ability to add one and one, i believe in just few years we will have one church here. Because even those churches that is labeled very conservative bible believing churches are going into this thing. I think of all the thousands free churches in Sweden, about 10 did not enter into this thing, it is a organization of connecting all churches, and just a few chose to be independent, so to say they run everything from their elders, no outside involvements in economy and so on.

I attended one of these meetings to see what it was all about, and the message was that we so long looked at the differences, now we should look in the future what we have in common, and that it really was antichrist who was the divider...so it you did not like this ecumenical thing, you really was like antichrist...if i understood what he said.

And what scared me even more was people i know been saved for 20-30-40 years was very positive to wards this.

i believe the very very last of the last days are here...

Christian

I was over in Livets Ord in Uppsala for there summer conference 07. That is where my eyes where opened to this ecumenical movement. They head of the Charismatic Catholics was there along with some Messianic Jews. The Messianic Jews where the ones backing the unity push saying and I quote " You need to unify with Charismatic Catholics and Coptics" They where also promoting that the Messianic Jews where to be the head of the church and where the ones that where going to lead the church and some other teachings that where of the mark by miles.

During the preaching there was always this push from Ulf Eckman and a another Swedish preacher Carl somebody. I went once to listen to this Charismatic Catholic preaching, I really struggled to sit there. He was so nice it made me sick full of seduction. I spoke to many people there and told them how I felt. They did not really listen they where being sucked in.

I ended up making friends with some Norwegians and we spoke about what we had heard they had some concerns but kinda had the attitude of well if Ulf's doing it's okay. I said well if on the last day when they have communion they had better not try sticking a round piece of bread down my throat or they have lost me.

So we all go to make a confession before taking communion. Right in the middle of it there is this statement "We believe in the Holy Catholic Church" I stop right there and my mouth open wide in shock they lead 7000+ people into a confession saying that without warning. Ulf said after the confession it has change slighty I will explain why later. Which he never did in the conference. Guess what type of bread the had the little round bits of bread. Unity around the eucharist. Helps us Jesus.

After my return to Scotland I emailed all the Livets Ord departments to warn them if. I got one reply saying that they should have said the universal church. I sent another email to warn them that I had told them that the blood was on now on there hands and sent them some more information on the ecumenical movement I told them I won't be back.

Before anyone gets on my case for being there listening to the Catholic man. I come from a country where secterism is strong. People die when certain football teams play Glasgow Rangers and Glasgow Celtic because one is prodestant and one is Catholic this is wrong. I have attended matches before I gave my heart to Jesus and sang about Hanging the Pope from a Orange rope. That there would be no Nuns or Priests no Rosary beads that everyday day would be the 12th of July basically about killing people this is wrong even it is the Pope.

I am glad that I did go and I have been warning people in this country what I have seen. This is the Devil preparing the church to worship the Anti Christ.

Jesus is coming soon...........

murrcolr wrote:
This is the Devil preparing the church to worship the Anti Christ.

I think this is the most accurate statement regarding the ecumenical movement that I have ever heard.

I dont think the word catholic is bad.
Seems like it means unity of the church [body of Christ]
I think people associate it with Roman Catholic[which is different]
I think the use of catholic makes everyone automatically think of Roman Catholic
Most of the religious maneuvers recently [I just read what you guys uncover] are unnerving but I believe Jesus ....."saved the best wine for last"

I'd like to have several glasses of that wine.

David

[b]Catholic
CATHOLIC, a.[/b]

1. Universal or general; as the Catholic church. Originally this epithet was given to the Christian church in general, but is now appropriated to the Romish church, and in strictness there is no Catholic church, or universal Christian communion. The epithet is sometimes set in opposition to heretic, sectary or schismatic.

2. Liberal; not narrow minded, partial or bigoted; as a catholic man.

3. Liberal; as catholic principles.

Catholic epistles, the epistles of the apostles which are addressed to all the faithful, and not to a particular church.

CATHOLIC, n. A papist.

Websters 1828 dictionary.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

". Most Reformation and post-Reformation Churches use the term Catholic (sometimes with a lower-case c) to refer to the belief that all Christians are part of one Church, regardless of denominational divisions. It is in line with this interpretation, which applies the word "catholic"/"universal" to no one denomination, that they understand the phrase "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church" in the Nicene Creed, the phrase "the Catholic faith" in the Athanasian Creed, and the phrase "holy catholic church" in the Apostles' Creed."

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic]Catholic[/url]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Catholic
1. Universal or general; as the Catholic church. Originally this epithet was given to the Christian church in general, but is now appropriated to the Romish church, and in strictness there is no Catholic church, or universal Christian communion. The epithet is sometimes set in opposition to heretic, sectary or schismatic.

This term was used by early Christian writers for the reasons given here. (EDIT: Read Eusebius: Ecclesiastical History) Am saying this so you will not be put off when you find it used in their works.

ginnyrose

I am deeply concerned that in the very noble act of overlooking differences we at the same time are overlooking scripture and in "loves" name we compromise what God has said in order for us to have "unity"

That is very precise and exactly why this will only work one way, the wrong way. The emphasis is on the former not the later. Somewhere in the travels came across a very simple but astute observation and I believe it was on a Catholic forum. That both sides will have to let go of so much that it is impossible. If we took that at exacting face value and recognized that whole constructs would have to be forgone, the unwillingness to do so, the only universal unity will be a false one.

That this is to be accomplished without dialouge and settling of differences in understanding scripture but in fact is a turning away from them, discounting them, sweeping things under the rug ...

The fact remains that we are a stubborn and obstinate creature. We will not be completely and perfectly honest. The Catholic church is the oldest and longest reigning government on the earth, it is also a separate sovereign entity. We, of a more or less protesting nature would have to recognize some aspects that might paint us in a bad light just to even acknowledge them because to do so would raise the cry of collusion. That is that they do indeed get many things right according to scripture. Read through a Catholic forum sometime and you will find voices just as adamant and outlandish towards 'us' as 'we' are towards them. Even on a personal note recall a brief conversation with a mother of one of my step-sons friends who became quite indignant that I had mentioned being *also Christian and her very terse reply was "Well, we are [i]Catholic![/i]" as if I had forwarded that Buddha was on par with Jesus by way of comparison.

The only way this could ever work in truth would be to start from scratch. To start over completely and that is just not going to happen.

Reading about these things in other countries than the USA (for a pleasant change) is incredible.

Before anyone gets on my case for being there listening to the Catholic man. I come from a country where secterism is strong. People die when certain football teams play Glasgow Rangers and Glasgow Celtic because one is prodestant and one is Catholic this is wrong. I have attended matches before I gave my heart to Jesus and sang about Hanging the Pope from a Orange rope. That there would be no Nuns or Priests no Rosary beads that everyday day would be the 12th of July basically about killing people this is wrong even it is the Pope.

We of an arm chair perspective can only imagine all this. And it is striking to recognize the easiness that might be applied by "can't we all just get along" when bloodshed is at the ready over it all. I am not even sure what compelled me to put my worthless two cents into this in the first place. And in even putting the toes into all this grand confusion makes me want to backtrack right out of it.

Here is something to chew on;

[url=http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?bible17.htm]Ecumenism [/url]

(*'Also', that is an edit, forgot to include it.)

i was looking up this passage, the famous one "where two or three are gathered in my name"

but in the previous verses it says "agree"

i looked up that word.... the word is

Mat 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you [b]shall agree[/b] on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

this word is

G4856
συμφωνέω
[b]sumphōneō[/b]
soom-fo-neh'-o
From G4859; to be harmonious, that is, (figuratively) to accord (be suitable, concur) or stipulate (by compact): - agree (together, with).

i guess this word is where we get our word "symphony" from, And if you ever heard one play...you know it is quite important they are in "harmoni" in agreement, if each and everyone bring a different set of paper with different kinds of notes...it wont be "one"....

even how much they try... how much we try...i think there need to be some agreement on what should be played...

and drawing it even further...how much of revival is missing because my and my genuine brothers are not in harmony?

hmmhmm said:
even how much they try... how much we try...i think there need to be some agreement on what should be played...

and drawing it even further...how much of revival is missing because my and my genuine brothers are not in harmony?

I think we should get in Harmony with Holy Spirit we should be asking him to play his tune through us. Instead of playing our own tunes. All it will take is God and one man then revival will come.......

II Thess 2 v 1-4 Now we beseech you, brethren, touching the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together unto him; to the end that ye be not quickly shaken from your mind, nor yet be troubled, either by spirit, or by word, or by epistle as from us, as that the day of the Lord is just at hand; let no man beguile you in any wise: for it will not be, except the falling away come first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, he that opposeth and exalteth himself against all that is called God or that is worshipped; so that he sitteth in the temple of God, setting himself forth as God.

This is where the ecumenical movement will take you. He that opposeth and exalteth himself against all that is called God or that is worshipped; so that he sitteth in the temple of God, setting himself forth as God.

What next unity with Muslims, Hindus, Buddists?

murrcolr wrote:

What next unity with Muslims, Hindus, Buddists?

yes probably, and i think in the end its just those "unloving" christian sect who are unwilling to adapt to the program

I do believe, however, there can be real heart relationships between people across recognised religious boundaries, by which Jesus Christ is ulitmately glorified. After all... who is my neighbour and who qualifies as 'friend' for whom to lay down my life?

Not sure about 'real heart relationships'. Warm, affectionate, even loving concern is one thing and I do not mean to over stress what you might have meant here and furthered clarified by what followed ... A whole string of verses flood the mind.

Perhaps [i]heartfelt[/i]?

I came upon this blog of a Catholic priest. He has links to sermon index, Leonard Ravenhill, Keith green, revival hymn, and other things. Pretty odd eh?

[url=http://communityservant.blogspot.com/]click here[/url]