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Testing all things on SermonIndex

C
crsschk Jan 24, 2008

If we consistently act in a way that is contrary or counter-productive to the mission and goals of this website and it's moderators, are we in danger of these things?
[i]ChrisJD[/i]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=21904&forum=48]How are people dealing with the Real ID act as Christians?[/url]

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[b][u]VISION OF THIS MINISTRY[/u][/b]

[i]"The mission of SermonIndex is the [b]preservation[/b] and propagation of classical vintage preaching and the promotion of genuine biblical revival to this generation."[/i]

The work and ministry of sermonindex can be encapsulated in this one word: REVIVAL. sermonindex is not a organisation, business, or any attempt by man to build something for God. It is rather a expression of a heart burden to see the Church revived and brought back to holiness, purity, and power with God.


[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=16222&forum=16&0]ABOUT SERMONINDEX: General Information[/url]


I do want to set forth some concerns just here about these matters as we seem to have been somewhat inundated with a whole force of argument over them lately.

[b][u]Baby and the bath water[/u][/b]

Probably the greatest of all strife and confusion right here. There is an adamancy towards being truthful and factual that will not waver in these discussions throughout this forum. It is not up for discussion or challenge as to holding each other accountable. Just here is where many things get well off track and presumptions displace concern, even motivation.

What we have seen too often is rebelling against the test of authenticity due to an assumption that by doing so then casts all things associated into negative light, hence the baby and the bath water.

It is both useless and foolish to carry this approach about us any longer. We have often gone around in circles wasting everyones energies in the process trying to explain just '[i]what we do not mean[/i]'.

There are well intentioned people, saints even that do get things flatly wrong. That does not make them anything other than incorrect, though in some cases there is also a pragmatism that can chisel away at the credibility if not out right demolish the whole structure.

The point?

Get your facts straight. If you cannot and feel that you must present a possibility, an opinion, an observation, just be sure to call it that and leave off the injurious and accusatory towards those who are calling all things into question as to their factuality, their authenticity.

[b][u]Paranoia and the Saints[/u][/b]

[i]Fear[/i]. This is not a breeding ground for either the fantastical nor the spurious. Do keep in mind your surroundings and again the purpose of this sites existence. This emphasis needs to always be kept well in mind. What we have seen in abundance of late is a penchant towards futuristic speculations often not presented as information, but insinuated as fact. "Prophecies" run away of their own course and conspiracy theories in like manner. We have stated formerly that these things are not acceptable;

[b][u]Conspiracy and Conspiracy Theory[/u][/b]

We believe there is certainly a conspiracy afoot, that which is present since the fall of mankind in their enmity with God. What other websites or ministries may have of a variety of present theory as it relates to what the governments of the world are doing is too much in dispute to be presented here. The New World Order and One Government system is understood in a variety of fashion. What we will not allow is unscrupulous and un-scriptural notions and ideals to foster fear and paranoia to the saints. Our trust and yours should be placed firmly in God, not in the conspiracy of the world, the flesh or the devil. We will monitor these things in our best discretion but do not bring in ministries or other agendas devoted to these mandates.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=14144&forum=13&post_id=&refresh=Go]MUST READ: SermonIndex Forum Disclaimer / Community Rules[/url]

"Discretion" is the key word here and I wish to humbly ask that those with a valid concern towards things of a discernment nature would also take into consideration your own moderators responsibility to discern the discernment if you will. It has been stated as much in the past that even these ministries need discerning, again not by babies and bath water but by accountability and testing that which is being purported or reported.

Furthermore, do take into consideration where it puts us, that is in a position where we have to go and research the things presented as to their factuality, plausibility, actuality. If the presenters would do their own unbiased research before posting our efforts could be better directed towards those things that propagate the thrust of this ministry.

There is absolutely a full recognition of the things presently before us as Brethren. We discuss and bemoan the declension of this present generations mechanisms and it is own spurious logic, even it's own re-defining of Christianity from it's scriptural moorings. We absolutely believe in the wisdom of warning towards that present deception in all it's manifold constitutions. We absolutely agree that the greater regions of Christendom is appealing to and leaning on the wisdom of this world and is in great error. Even the unspoken attributes of all that is present on this site speak to it's carnality, it's apostasy, it's plastic-ness and cheapening of real spiritual matters.

We are living testaments to the [i]Truth[/i], not supposed to be, but in truth and spirit, we [u]are[/u] the outworking of Him. "[i]I am the way, the truth and the light.[/i]" Our very words carry the weight and responsibility of either our authenticity or our duplicity.

[i]For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.[/i] Mat 12:37

Even our shortcomings and failures are testament [i]if[/i] we are always at the ready to confess and correct and be corrected. We have nothing in and of ourselves to defend save the Lords testimony and our humility is so great an opportunity to present Jesus as Lord, as Truth, as the only Way, that it is to our shame that we are not more forthcoming in our failure to be ever more presently honest.

We therefore will continue to test all things. 1Th 5:21

The world is watching.

sermonindex Jan 24, 2008

Hi Mike,

Just want to acknowledge I've read this, and appreciate it. In general, am comforted. Thanks. Will meditate upon what if any, further to reply.

R
ravenmolehil Jan 24, 2008

This should be a Pop up, every time the thread is accessed,
(just for us hard-headed folks)
Well said....

sermonindex Jan 24, 2008

The world is watching.

May we act and speak as those that will bear account before God.

B
broclint Jan 24, 2008

Thank you for these wise words, and for the privelege of accessing this site. Well said and well taken.

Clint

C
ccchhhrrriiisss Jan 24, 2008

Brother Mike...

Thank you for this good and timely reminder.

C
crsschk Feb 3, 2008

[b]Applying the Test of Biblical Accuracy[/b]

The tests for spiritual genuineness are two: First, the leader must be a good man and full of the Holy Ghost. Christianity is nothing if not moral. . . . But the test of moral goodness is not enough. Every man must submit his work to the scriptural test. It is not enough that he be able to quote from the Bible at great length or that he claim for himself great and startling experiences with God. Go back to the law and to the testimony. If he speak not according to the Word it is because there is no light in him. We who are invited to follow him have every right, as well as a solemn obligation, to test his work according to the Word of God. We must demand that every claimant for our confidence present a clean bill of health from the Holy Scriptures; that he do more than weave in a text occasionally, or hold up the Bible dramatically before the eyes of his hearers. His doctrines must be those of the Scriptures. The Bible must dominate his preaching. He must preach according to the Word of God. The price of following a false guide on the desert may be death. The price of heeding wrong advice in business may be bankruptcy. The price of trusting to a quack doctor may be permanent loss of health. The price of putting confidence in a pseudo-prophet may be moral and spiritual tragedy. Let us take heed that no man deceive us.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=category&cid=2]A.W. Tozer[/url]


[i]Do not excuse yourselves, dear sirs, and judges, because you are the servants of the emperor. This will not clear you in the day of vengeance. It did not help Pilate that he crucifled Christ in the name of the emperor. Serve the emperor in imperial matters, so far as Scripture permits, and serve God in divine matters. Then you may boast of His grace and have yourselves called after the Lord's name.

Do not usurp the judgment and kingdom of Christ, for He alone is the ruler of the conscience, and besides Him there is no other. Let Him be your emperor in this matter and His holy Word your edict, and you will soon have enough of storming and slaying. You must hearken to God above the emperor, and obey God's Word more than that of the emperor.[/i]

Menno described the true congregation of Christ as those who are truly converted, who are born from above of God, who are of a regenerate mind by the operation of the Holy Spirit through the hearing of the divine Word, and have become the children of God, have entered into obedience to Him, and live unblamably in His holy commandments, and according to His holy will all their days, or from the moment of their call.

As to his own foundation he added:

[i]Brethren, I tell you the truth and lie not. I am no Enoch, I am no Elias, I am not one who sees visions, I am no prophet who can teach and prophesy otherwise than what is written in the Word of God and understood in the Spirit. (Whosoever tries to teach something else will soon leave the track and be deceived.) I do not doubt that the merciful Father will keep me in His Word so that I shall write or speak nothing but that which I can prove by Moses, the prophets, the evan gelists and other apostolic Scriptures and doctrines, explained in the true sense, Spirit, and intent of Christ.[/i]

This last phrase is the key to Menno's understanding of the Scriptures. All parts of God's Word witness to the Lord Jesus. Menno's motto was, "For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ" (I Corinthians 3:11). Menno was a Christocentric churchman.

[i]Menno Simons, Christocentric Churchman[/i]

[url=http://www.bibleviews.com/evenuntodeath.html]EVEN UNTO DEATH[/url]

The Heroic Witness of The Sixteenth-Century Anabaptist
~ [i]By John Christian Wenger[/i]

C
crsschk May 2, 2008

[i]Quench not the Spirit. Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Abstain from all appearance of evil.[/i] 1Th 5:19-22


[b]1Th 5:19 -
Quench not the Spirit[/b]
- This language is taken from the way of putting out a fire, and the sense is, we are not to extinguish the influences of the Holy Spirit in our hearts. Possibly there may be an allusion here to fire on an altar, which was to be kept constantly burning. This fire may have been regarded as emblematic of devotion, and as denoting that that devotion was never to become extinct. The Holy Spirit is the source of true devotion, and hence the enkindlings of piety in the heart, by the Spirit, are never to be quenched. Fire may be put out by pouring on water; or by covering it with any incombustible substance; or by neglecting to supply fuel. If it is to be made to burn, it must be nourished with proper care and attention. The Holy Spirit, in his influences on the soul, is here compared with fire that might be made to burn more intensely, or that might be extinguished.

In a similar manner the apostle gives this direction to Timothy, “I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up ἀναζωπυρεῖν anazōpurein, kindle up, cause to burn) the gift of God;” 2Ti_1:6. Anything that will tend to damp the ardor of piety in the soul; to chill our feelings; to render us cold and lifeless in the service of God, may be regarded as “quenching the Spirit.” Neglect of cultivating the Christian graces, or of prayer, of the Bible, of the sanctuary, of a careful watchfulness over the heart, will do it. Worldliness, vanity, levity, ambition, pride, the love of dress, or indulgence in an improper train of thought, will do it. It is a great rule in religion that all the piety which there is in the soul is the fair result of culture. A man has no more religion than he intends to have; he has no graces of the Spirit which he does not seek; he has no deadness to the world which is not the object of his sincere desire, and which he does not aim to have. Any one, if he will, may make elevated attainments in the divine life; or he may make his religion merely a religion of form, and know little of its power and its consolations.

[b]1Th 5:20 -
Despise not prophesyings[/b]
- On the subject of prophesyings in the early Christian church, see the notes on 1Co_14:1 ff1 ff. The reference here seems to be to preaching. They were not to undervalue it in comparison with other things. It is possible that in Thessalonica, as appears to have been the case subsequently in Corinth (compare 1Co_14:19), there were those who regarded the power of working miracles, or of speaking in unknown tongues, as a much more eminent endowment than that of stating the truths of religion in language easily understood. It would not be unnatural that comparisons should be made between these two classes of endowments, much to the disadvantage of the latter; and hence may have arisen this solemn caution not to disregard or despise the ability to make known divine truth in intelligible language. A similar counsel may not be inapplicable to us now. The office of setting forth the truth of God is to be the permanent office in the church; that of speaking foreign languages by miraculous endowment, was to be temporary. But the office of addressing mankind on the great duties of religion, and of publishing salvation, is to be God’s great ordinance for converting the world. It should not be despised, and no man commends his own wisdom who contemns it - for:

(1) it is God’s appointment - the means which he has designated for saving people.

(2) it has too much to entitle it to respect to make it proper to despise or contemn it. There is nothing else that has so much power over mankind as the preaching of the gospel; there is no other institution of heaven or earth among people that is destined to exert so wide and permanent an influence as the Christian ministry.

(3) it is an influence which is wholly good. No man is made the poorer, or the less respectable, or more miserable in life or in death, by following the counsels of a minister of Christ when he makes known the gospel.

(4) he who despises it contemns that which is designed to promote his own welfare, and which is indispensable for his salvation. It remains yet to be shown that any man has promoted his own happiness, or the welfare of his family, by affecting to treat with contempt the instructions of the Christian ministry.

[b]1Th 5:21 -
Prove all things[/b]
- Subject everything submitted to you to be believed to the proper test. The word here used (δοκιμάζετε dokimazete), is one that is properly applicable to metals, referring to the art of the assayer, by which the true nature and value of the metal is tested; see notes, 1Co_3:13. This trial was usually made by fire. The meaning here is, that they were carefully to examine everything proposed for their belief. They were not to receive it on trust; to take it on assertion; to believe it because it was urged with vehemence, zeal, or plausibility. In the various opinions and doctrines which were submitted to them for adoption, they were to apply the appropriate tests from reason and the word of God, and what they found to be true they were to embrace; what was false they were to reject. Christianity does not require people to disregard their reason, or to be credulous. It does not expect them to believe anything because others say it is so. It does not make it a duty to receive as undoubted truth all that synods and councils have decreed; or all that is advanced by the ministers of religion. It is, more than any other form of religion, the friend of free inquiry, and would lead people everywhere to understand the reason of the opinions which they entertain; compare Act_17:11-12; 1Pe_3:15.

[b]Hold fast that which is good[/b] - Which is in accordance with reason and the word of God; which is adapted to promote the salvation of the soul and the welfare of society. This is just as much a duty as it is to “prove all things.” A man who has applied the proper tests, and has found out what is truth, is bound to embrace it and to hold it fast. He is not at liberty to throw it away, as if it were valueless; or to treat truth and falsehood alike. It is a duty which he owes to himself and to God to adhere to it firmly, and to suffer the loss of all things rather than to abandon it. There are few more important rules in the New Testament than the one in this passage. It shows what is the true nature of Christianity, and it is a rule whose practical value cannot but be felt constantly in our lives. Other religions require their votaries to receive everything upon trust; Christianity asks us to examine everything.

Error, superstition, bigotry, and fanaticism attempt to repress free discussion, by saying that there are certain things which are too sacred in their nature, or which have been too long held, or which are sanctioned by too many great and holy names, to permit their being subjected to the scrutiny of common eyes, or to be handled by common hands. In opposition to all this, Christianity requires us to examine everything - no matter by whom held; by what councils ordained; by what venerableness of antiquity sustained; or by what sacredness it may be invested. We are to receive no opinion until we are convinced that it is true; we are to be subjected to no pains or penalties for not believing what we do not perceive to be true; we are to be prohibited from examining no opinion which our fellow-men regard as true, and which they seek to make others believe. No popular current in favor of any doctrine; no influence which name and rank and learning can give it, is to commend it to us as certainly worthy of our belief. By whomsoever held, we are to examine it freely before we embrace it; but when we are convinced that it is true, it is to be held, no matter what current of popular opinion or prejudice maybe against it; no matter what ridicule may be poured upon it; and no matter though the belief of it may require us to die a martyr’s death.

[b]1Th 5:22 -
Abstain from all appearance of evil[/b]
- Not only from evil itself, but from that which seems to be wrong. There are many things which are known to be wrong. They are positively forbidden by the laws of heaven, and the world concurs in the sentiment that they are wicked. But there are also many things about which there may be some reasonable doubt. It is not quite easy to determine in the case what is right or wrong. The subject has not been fully examined, or the question of its morality may be so difficult to settle, that the mind may be nearly or quite balanced in regard to it. There are many things which, in themselves, may not appear to us to be positively wrong, but which are so considered by large and respectable portions of the community; and for us to do them would be regarded as inconsistent and improper. There are many things, also, in respect to which there is great variety of sentiment among mankind - where one portion would regard them as proper, and another as improper.

There are things, also, where, whatever may be our motive, we may be certain that our conduct will be regarded as improper. A great variety of subjects, such as those pertaining to dress, amusements, the opera, the ball-room, games of chance and hazard, and various practices in the transaction of business, come under this general class; which, though on the supposition that they cannot be proved to be in themselves positively wrong or forbidden, have much the “appearance” of evil, and will be so interpreted by others. The safe and proper rule is to lean always to the side of virtue. In these instances it may be certain that there will be no sin committed by abstaining; there may be by indulgence. No command of God, or of propriety, will be violated if we decline complying with these customs; but on the other hand we may wound the cause of religion by yielding to what possibly is a mere temptation. No one ever does injury or wrong by abstaining from the pleasures of the ball-room, the theater, or a glass of wine; who can indulge in them without, in the view of large and respectable portions of the community, doing that which has the “appearance” at least of “evil?”

[i]Albert Barnes[/i]

J
JoanM Jun 11, 2008

1 Thess 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

In the “hold fast that which is good” department, I find in C.S. Lewis: The Screwtape Letters: [u]Uncle Screwtape speaking to demon Wormwood[/u]: Since we cannot deceive the whole human race all the time, it is most important thus to cut every generation off from all others; for where learning makes a free commerce between the ages, there is always the danger that the characteristic errors of one may be corrected by the characteristic truths of another. But thanks be to our father (Satan) and the historical point of view, great scholars are now as little nourished by the past as the most ignorant mechanic who holds that “history is bunk”.

I think SI is being fruitful in the “nourishment by the past” and that this device by our enemy is evident everywhere. See Revival and History/ Some cautionary thoughts – Katz. The same error (Laughing, Lakeland, Emerging).

D
DoulosQuinn Jan 31, 2009

May it be so.

W
White_Stone Feb 4, 2009

Dear Joan,

The links I posted in this thread were posted to illustrate how the 'cutting off' of the generations has been planned and is being executed.

It opened my eyes to what was going on in the schools. Since we had no children I only had a passing interest in public schooling. My husband and I were aware something was drastically wrong but we didn't know just how wrong it was.

This is the first time I have opened this thread. Shows me I need to look into more links.

Not enough time . . .
white stone

R
run2win Feb 10, 2009

RE: crsschk's piece by Albert Barnes on 1Thes5:19-22

This is such a good word, however, I think it most helpful to consider the preceding verses in order to possess the fullness of the power of this passage, or Paul would not have linked them all together. But before we get to those, in verses 12 and 13: Paul makes a request encapsulated in these two points: Appreciate your leaders and esteem them in love; live in peace one with another. But it is beginning in verse 14 that he makes a more urgent appeal: the real ministry of active love and loving attitudes and admonishments within the body of Christ: admonish the unruly (slothful), encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with all men, let no one repay evil for evil, always seek after good for one another and for all men. All of this points to the building up of one another, of accountability, of loving one another--producing and bearing good fruit.

But the verses most vital to the text we are considering are these:

"Rejoice always;
pray without ceasing;
in everthing give thanks;
for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus." 1Thes5:16-18

These three--which are all in the will of God for us in Christ, precede the verses 19-22--why? That our hearts be right before God in order to prepare us to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit, that we not quench Him, and that we be sensitive to any spirit not in keeping with the truth. Finding our joy in Christ and in His word, unceasing prayer, and thankful hearts empower us to do the rest.

"Sanctify them in the truth; Thy word is truth." John17:17

Grace and peace.

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