Condition of the regenerated heart???

I'm more or less posting this thread because recently a friend and dear brother of mine and I have gotten into the discussion of the condition of the heart before and after regeneration. In Jeremiah 17:9 the bible tells us "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" Then we have in Ezekiel 11:18-21 "And they shall come thither, and they shall take away all the detestable things thereof and all the abominations thereof from thence. And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God. But as for them whose heart walketh after the heart of their detestable things and their abominations, I will recompense their way upon their own heads, saith the Lord God." There are so many other verses that come into thought including 1 John 3:20 he tells us "For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things." And finally you have Paul's whole argument in Romans Chapters 6-8. I know that Paul says "For I know that in me, that is in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing", but does this include the heart also. I'm looking for some scriptural answers on this because I believe a lot of believers today are misled by their "hearts" and not trusting the leading of God's Word by His Spirit. I lean toward the side that the heart remains evil and that God's only desire is to keep it in a place of brokenness, out of the way, so that Jesus can actually live His life in and through us and replace our heart with The Holy Spirit. In depth replies or an url address for some great sermons on this discussion would be much appreciated. God bless.

Try this book:Salvation in Full ColorThis book is a compilation of 20 "great sermons" from America's Great Awakening.There is one sermon entitled, "Regeneration" which may address some of your questions. Nonetheless, this is a very valuable resource about the doctrine of salvation.

Titus speaks to this subject. "...according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior." From my understanding the thought of "through the washing or regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit" means that it is a continuous process. For if it is continuous, God knows that our hearts need constant attention. In ChristJeff

Greg,Have you finished this volume? I'm close.In this book, Mr. Roberts' introduction is a wonderful piece on the doctrine of salvation. Wouldn't you agree?Not to veer too far from the subject, but have you read, "Sanctify the Congregation"? It's a tough one too.

A wise decision.Get his book, "Revival". That I have finished. He also just published a book, entitled, "Repentance, the first word of the Gospel". It was printed by Crossway in IL. Amazing!In his last "newsletter" he said he was working on a book on regeneration as well as a volume on 2 Chronicles 7:14.Matthew

I thought that sermon series sounded familiar...Mr. Roberts also preaced a series on that book at his home church in Wheaton. I ordered the series on tape. When I get home, I'll locate the church's contact information and post it for those who'd like the tapes. I don't think they have CDs.You can also contact his book store for info about the series (and others) as well. Click on one of the book links in previous posts and you shouldn't be too far from a phone # or email address.My apologies to "Bub" for straying so far from your posted topic!!

No apologies necessary gentlemen I'm gleaning crumbs from the rabbit trail as well :-) At any rate, I appreciate also the link for the book and I've already ordered it and look forward to reading it. I believe it's of utmost importance to inform this brother whom I've been having this discussion with about the heart and the condition of it after regeneration so as not to error on the side of pride that we're "ok" once "The love of God has been shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost" but rather that it is a continuing shedding of His love and as John the Baptist declared "of his fullness have all we received, and grace upon grace." I think my brother's argument leads toward a path of self righteousness and is as I like to call it "the strong man mentality" which leaves no room to receive grace at a certain point.

Wow! You are quick.There have been a few posts about this sort of subject: new man vs. old man, why do I sin, perfectionism, etc.You may want to try a Systematic Theology text.Someone has reproduced Charles Hodge's text online. I have not read it, but Richard Owen Roberts quoted from it in a sermon so we can go from there...I would suggest Part III on "salvation" (soteriology) in regards to your post.HodgeIf you like it, It is available in book form. CBD has the 3 volume set for $25 (retail $100).BookHopefully this will help in your quest. Mr. Roberts' book will address many things, both theological and practical (that is to say, walking the walk). Read it to have your questions answered, but also read it to let the Holy Spirit conform you the the image of the Son! (I only say this because it becomes very easy to study theology and engage our minds and forget the practical application of Scripture!)God bless you as you seek Him!Matthew

Here's another thought...Read the Bible from cover to cover. As you come across a passage that deals with the "heart" (or anything related, regeneration, new birth, putting on Christ, walking in the Spirit, dying to self, etc. Whatever subject you are looking to learn.) put a mark by the passage. Pray that God would show you each passage you need to study.When you are done, you will have a large list of Scriptures. Go back through your Bible and list all the passages you marked...Next, study all of those passages. With computers, it should be easy to cut-and-paste all of the passages into one document.So, now is the time to seriously pray about the subject. Write notes!!! (This will serve for later reflecion as well as a legacy for your children (if and when God blesses)).By studying all of the passages of Scripture on a subject as the Bible presents them, that will give you the fullest understanding of the topic.I did this in regards to prayer (well, I've started). I've read the New Testament, Psalms and Proverbs (thanks to the Gideons!). Every passage where someone directly prayed (in the Gospels if they talked to Jesus, or asked a question) I marked with a "P"! Every time Paul said, "I am praying for you..." You get the idea. Now I will do the same in the Old Testament. I did this because I wanted to find Scriptures to pray for my wife and children. Nothing like praying God' will...So that would be my first recommendation to you. It will take some time (I know you want to help your friend), but it will be worth it. We have the promise that the Holy Spirit will lead us into all Truth (John 16:13), trust Him to teach you. I apologize that the Word was not my first suggestion to you.Please let me know if you undertake this study (and make sure you write it all down!).God bless,Matthew

What do you guys think about the idea that someone may not recieve their salvation upon "praying the prayer"?I think something has to happen to someone to change them before they can truly repent and be saved.Like you were mentioning in Romans 6-8 it says that the sinful man is hostile to God, and it won't submit to God. I think that the the scriptures show that regeneration is dramatic at first, does a lot of changing, such as the mindset and values of people(1 Cor 5,and the book 1 John), but doesnt ever stop changing us (2 Corinthians 3:18)All to and for Him

Matthew,I will plan on starting the word and verse study beginning tomorrow, Saturday. I will keep you up to date as to how it's progressing. Thanks for the advice.