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"Holiness" HERESY!!!

sermonindex Jan 29, 2008

HOLINESS: THE FALSE AND THE TRUE
By Harry A. Ironside (1876-1951)

[b]NOTE: This article is a VERY SHOCKING personal testimony by a man who was involved in the “Second Blessing Holiness” movement, a.k.a. Wesleyan holiness, Christian perfectionism, Entire Sanctification, Perfect love, Eradication of original sin, etc. The man who wrote this article, Harry Ironside, was personally involved with the early Salvation Army, a movement which promoted such “holiness” doctrines; in fact, he was a minister in it and labored in it for a number of years. He sought the “blessing” of “perfect holiness” for years, thought he had “entered in” and was brought through a cycle of condemnation, guilt and hypocrisy that ultimately almost destroyed his Christianity, as it did to many others in his circle. The following is a first hand testimony, written by this man, about what he went through, and how the Lord opened his eyes to trust in the finished work of Christ by faith. If you are involved in any “holiness movement”, Wesleyanism, etc. then DO NOT LET THE ENEMY OF YOUR SOUL PREVENT YOU FROM READING THIS ARTICLE!!! -Josef[/b]

Here is H.A. Ironside's testimony, written by him:

It is my desire, in dependence on the Lord, to write a faithful record, so far as memory now serves me, of some of God's dealings with my soul and my strivings after the experience of holiness, during the first six years of my Christian life, ere I knew the blessedness of finding all in Christ. This will make it necessary at times, I have little doubt, to "speak as a fool"--even as the apostle Paul did: but as I reflect on the need for such a record, I think I can say with him, "Ye have compelled me."

If I may be privileged to thereby save others from the unhappy experiences I passed through in those early years, I shall feel abundantly repaid for the effort it will take to thus put these heart-experiences before my readers.

From a very early age God began to speak to me through His Word. I doubt if I could go back to the first time when, to my recollection, I felt something of the reality of eternal things.

My father was taken from me ere his features were impressed upon my infant mind. But I never have heard him spoken of other than as a man of God. He was known in Toronto (my birthplace) to many as "The Eternity Man." His Bible, marked in many places, was a precious legacy to me; and from it I learned to recite my first verse of Scripture, at the age of four. I distinctly recall learning the blessed words of Luke 19:10, "For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost." That I was lost, and that Christ Jesus came from heaven to save me, were the first divine truths impressed on my young heart.

My widowed mother was, it seems to me, one of a thousand. I remember yet how I would be thrilled as she knelt with me as a child, and prayed, "O Father, keep my boy from ever desiring anything greater than to live for Thee. Save him early, and make him a devoted street-preacher, as his father was. Make him willing to suffer for Jesus' sake, to gladly endure persecution and rejection by the world that cast out Thy Son; and keep him from what would dishonor Thee." The words were not always the same, but I have heard the sentiment times without number.

To our home there often came servants of Christ--plain, godly men, who seemed to me to carry with them the atmosphere of eternity. Yet in a very real sense they were the bane of my boyhood. Their searching, "Henry, lad, are you born again yet?" or the equally impressive, "Are you certain that your soul is saved?" often brought me to a standstill; but I knew not how to reply.

California had become my home ere I was clear as to being a child of God. In Los Angeles I first began to learn the love of the world, and was impatient of restraint. Yet I had almost continual concern as to the great matter of my salvation.

I was but twelve years old when I began a Sunday-school and set up to try to help the boys and girls of the neighborhood to a knowledge of the Book I had read ten times through, but which had still left me without assurance of salvation.

To Timothy, Paul wrote, "From a child thou hast known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation, through faith which is in Christ Jesus" (2 Tim. 3:15). It was this latter that I lacked. I had, it seemed to me, always believed, yet I dared not say I was saved. I know now that I had always believed about Jesus. I had not really believed in Him as my personal Saviour. Between the two there is all the difference that there is between being saved and lost, between an eternity in Heaven and endless ages in the lake of fire.

As I have said, I was not without considerable anxiety as to my soul; and though I longed to break into the world, and was indeed guilty of much that was vile and wicked, I ever felt a restraining hand upon me, keeping me from many things that I would otherwise have gone into; and a certain religiousness became, I suppose, characteristic. But religion is not salvation.

I was nearly fourteen years old when, upon returning one day from school, I learned that a servant of Christ from Canada, well known to me, had arrived for meetings. I knew, ere I saw him, how he would greet me; for I remembered him well, and his searching questions, when I was younger. Therefore I was not surprised, but embarrassed nevertheless, when he exclaimed, "Well, Harry, lad, I'm glad to see you. And are you born again yet?"

The blood mantled my face; I hung my head, and could find no words to reply. An uncle present said, "You know, Mr. M--, he preaches himself now a bit, and conducts a Sunday School!"

"Indeed!" was the answer. "Will you get your Bible, Harry?"

I was glad to get out of the room, and so went at once for my Bible, and returned, after remaining out of the room as long as seemed decent, hoping thereby to recover myself. Upon my re-entering the room, he said, kindly, but seriously, "Will you turn to Rom. 3:19, and read it aloud?"

Slowly I read, "Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God." I felt the application, and was at a loss for words. The evangelist went on to tell me that he too had been once a religious sinner, till God stopped his mouth, and then gave him a sight of Christ. He pressed on me the importance of getting to the same place ere I tried to teach others.

The words had their effect. From that time till I was sure I was saved, I refrained from talking of these things, and I gave up my Sunday-school work. But now Satan, who was seeking my soul's destruction, suggested to me, "If lost and unfit to speak of religious things to others, why not enjoy all the world has to offer, so far as you are able to avail yourself of it?"

I listened only too eagerly to his words, and for the next six months or thereabouts no one was more anxious for folly than I, though always with a smarting conscience.

At last, on a Thursday evening in February 1890, God spoke to me in tremendous power while out at a party with a lot of other young people, mostly older than myself, intent only on an evening's amusement. I remember now that I had withdrawn from the parlor for a few moments to obtain a cooling drink in the next room. Standing alone at the refreshment table, there came home to my inmost soul, in startling clearness, some verses of Scripture I had learned months before. They are found in the first chapter of Proverbs, beginning with verse 24 and going on to verse 32. Here wisdom is represented as laughing at the calamity of the one who refused to heed instruction, and mocking when his fear cometh. Every word seemed to burn its way into my heart. I saw as never before my dreadful guilt in having so long refused to trust Christ for myself, and in having preferred my own wilful way to that of Him who had died for me.

I went back to the parlor, and tried to join with the rest in their empty follies. But all seemed utterly hollow, and the tinsel was gone. The light of eternity was shining into the room, and I wondered how any could laugh with God's judgment hanging over us, like a Damocles' sword suspended by a hair. We seemed like people sporting with closed eyes on the edge of a precipice, and I the most careless of all, till grace had made me see.

That night, when all was over, I hurried home, and crept up-stairs to my room. There, after lighting a lamp, I took my Bible, and, with it before me, fell upon my knees.

I had an undefined feeling that I had better pray. But the thought came, "What shall I pray for?" Clearly and distinctly came back the answer, "For what God has been offering me for years. Why not then receive it, and thank Him?"

My dear mother had often said, "The place to begin with God is Romans 3, or John 3." To both these scriptures I turned, and read them carefully. Clearly I saw that I was a helpless sinner, but that Christ for me had died, and that salvation was offered freely to all who trusted in Him. Reading John 3:16 the second time, I said, "That will do. O God, I thank Thee that Thou has loved me, and given Thy Son for me. I trust Him now as my Saviour, and I rest on Thy Word, which tells me I have everlasting life."

Then I expected to feel a thrill of joy. It did not come. I wondered if I could be mistaken. I expected a sudden rush of love for Christ. It did not come either. I feared I could not be really saved with so little emotion.

I read the words again. There could be no mistake. God loved the world, of which I formed a part. God gave His Son to save all believers. I believed in Him as my Saviour. Therefore I must have everlasting life. Again I thanked Him, and rose from my knees to begin the walk of faith. God could not lie. I knew I must be saved.

Holiness: The Great Desideratum

Being saved myself, the first great desires that sprang up in my heart was an intense longing to lead others to the One who had made my peace with God.

At the time of which I write, the Salvation Army was in the zenith of its energy as an organization devoted to going out after the lost. It had not yet become popular, a society to be patronized by the world and used as a medium for philanthropic work. Its officers and soldiers seemed to have but one aim and object--to lead the weary and despairing to the Saviour's feet. I had often attended its services, and in fact had frequently, though but a child, given a "testimony" by quoting Scripture and urging sinners to trust Christ, even while I was in the dark myself. Naturally therefore, when the knowledge of salvation was mine, I went at the first opportunity, the night after my conversion, to an "Army" street-meeting, and there spoke for the first time, in the open air, of the grace of God so newly revealed to my soul.

I suppose, because I was but a lad of fourteen and fairly familiar with the Bible, and also somewhat forward--unduly so, I have little doubt--I was at once cordially welcomed among them, and soon became known as "the boy preacher," a title which, I fear, ministered more to the pride of my heart than I had any idea of at the time. For, in fact, in my new-found joy I had no conception that I still carried about with me a nature as sinful and vile as existed in the breast of the greatest evildoer in the world. I knew something of Christ and His love; I knew little or nothing of myself and the deceitfulness of my own heart.

As nearly as I can now recollect, I was in the enjoyment of the knowledge of God's salvation about a month when, in some dispute with my brother, who was younger than I, my temper suddenly escaped control, and in an angry passion I struck and felled him to the ground. Horror immediately filled my soul. I needed not his sarcastic taunt, "Well, you are a nice Christian! You'd better go down to the Army and tell what a saint you've become!" to send me to my room in anguish of heart to confess my sin to God in shame and bitter sorrow, as afterwards frankly to my brother, who generously forgave me.

From this time on mine was an "up-and-down experience," to use a term often heard in "testimony meetings." I longed for perfect victory over the lusts and desires of the flesh. Yet I seemed to have more trouble with evil thoughts and unholy propensities than I had ever known before. For a long time I kept these conflicts hidden, and known only to God and to myself. But after some eight or ten months, I became interested in what were called "holiness meetings," held weekly in the "Army" hall, and also in a mission I sometimes attended.

At these gatherings an experience was spoken of which I felt was just what I needed. It was designated by various terms: "The Second Blessing"; "Sanctification"; "Perfect Love"; "Higher Life"; "Cleansing from Inbred Sin"; and by other expressions.

Substantially, the teaching was this: When converted, God graciously forgives all sins committed up to the time when one repents. But the believer is then placed in a lifelong probation, during which he may at any time forfeit his justification and peace with God if he falls into sin from which he does not repent. In order, therefore, to maintain himself in a saved condition, he needs a further work of grace called sanctification. This work has to do with sin the root, as justification had to do with sins the fruit.

The steps leading up to this second blessing are, firstly, conviction as to the need of holiness (just as in the beginning there was conviction of the need of salvation); secondly, a full surrender to God, or the laying of every hope, prospect and possession on the altar of consecration; thirdly, to claim in faith the incoming of the Holy Spirit as a refining fire to burn out all inbred sin, thus destroying in toto every lust and passion, leaving the soul perfect in love and as pure as unfallen Adam.

This wonderful blessing received, great watchfulness is required lest, as the serpent beguiled Eve, he deceive the sanctified soul, and thus introduce again the same kind of an evil principle which called for such drastic action before.

Such was the teaching; and coupled with it were heartfelt testimonies of experiences so remarkable that I could not doubt with genuineness, nor that what others seemed to enjoy was likewise for me if I would fulfil the conditions.

One lady told how for forty years she had been kept from sin in thought, word, and deed. Her heart, she declared, was no longer "deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked," but was as holy as the courts of heaven, since the blood of Christ has washed away the last remains inbred sin. Others spoke in a similar way, though their experiences were much briefer. Bad tempers had been rooted out when a full surrender was made.

Evil propensities and unholy appetites had been instantly destroyed when holiness was claimed by faith.

Eagerly I began to seek this precious boon of holiness in the flesh. Earnestly I prayed for this Adamic sinlessness. I asked God to reveal to me every unholy thing, that I might truly surrender all to Him. I gave up friends, pursuits, pleasures--everything I could think of that might hinder the incoming of the Holy Ghost and the consequent blessing. I was a veritable "book-worm," an intense love for literature possessing me from childhood; but in my ignorant desire I put away all books of pleasurable or instructive character, and promised God to read only the Bible and holiness writings if He would only give me "the blessing." I did not, however, obtain what I sought, though I prayed zealously for weeks.

At last, one Saturday night (I was away from home, living with a friend, a member of the "Army"), I determined to go out into the country and wait on God, not returning till I had received the blessing of perfect love. I took a train at eleven o'clock, and went to a lonely station twelve miles from Los Angeles. There I alighted, and, leaving the highway, descended into an empty arroyo, or water-course. Falling on my knees beneath a sycamore tree, I prayed in an agony for hours, beseeching God to show me anything that hindered my reception of the blessing. Various matters of too private and sacred a nature to be here related came to my mind. I struggled against conviction, but finally ended by crying, "Lord, I give up all--everything, every person, every enjoyment, that would hinder my living alone for Thee. Now give me, I pray Thee, the blessing!"

As I look back, I believe I was fully surrendered to the will of God at that moment, so far as I understood it. But my brain and nerves were unstrung by the long midnight vigil and the intense anxiety of previous months, and I fell almost fainting to the ground. Then a holy ecstasy seemed to thrill all my being. This I thought was the coming into my heart of the Comforter. I cried out in confidence, "Lord, I believe Thou dost come in. Thou dost cleanse and purify me from all sin. I claim it now. The work is done. I am sanctified by Thy blood. Thou dost make me holy. I believe; I believe!" I was unspeakably happy. I felt that all my struggles were ended.

With a heart filled with praise, I rose from the ground and began to sing aloud. Consulting my watch, I saw it was about half-past three in the morning. I felt I must hasten to town so as to be in time for the seven o'clock prayer-meeting, there to testify to my experience. Fatigued as I was by being up all night, yet so light was my heart I scarcely noticed the long miles back, but hastened to the city, arriving just as the meeting was beginning, buoyed up by my new-found experience. All were rejoiced as I told what great things I believed God had done for me. Every meeting that day added to my gladness. I was literally intoxicated with joyous emotions.

My troubles were all ended now. The wilderness was past, and I was in Canaan, feeding on the old corn of the land. Nevermore should I be troubled by inward drawings toward sin. My heart was pure. I had reached the desirable state of full sanctification. With no foe within, I could direct all my energies toward vanquishing the enemies without.

This was what I thought. Alas, how little did I know myself; much less the mind of God!

Sunshine and Clouds

For some weeks after the eventful experience before described, I lived in a dreamily-happy state, rejoicing in my fancied sinlessness. One great idea had possession of my mind; and whether at work or in my leisure hours, I thought of little else than the wonderful event which had taken place. But gradually I began to "come back to earth," as it were. I was now employed in a photographic studio, where I associated with people of various tastes and habits, some of whom ridiculed, some tolerated, and others sympathized with, my radical views on things religious.

Night after night I attended the meetings, speaking on the street and indoors, and I soon noticed (and doubtless others did too) that a change came over my "testimonies." Before, I had always held up Christ, and pointed the lost to Him. Now, almost imperceptibly, my own experience became my theme, and I held up myself as a striking example of consecration and holiness! This was the prevailing characteristic of the brief addresses made by most of the "advanced" Christians in our company. The youngest in grace magnified Christ. The "sanctified" magnified themselves. A favorite song will make this more manifest than any words of mine. It is still widely used in Army meetings, and finds a place in their song or hymnbooks. I give only one verse as a specimen:

The people I know don't live holy;
They battle with unconquered sin,
Not daring to consecrate fully,
Or they full salvation would win.
With malice they have constant trouble,
From doubting they long to be free;
With most things about them they grumble;
Praise God, this is not so with ME!

Will the reader believe me when I say that I sang this wretched doggerel without a thought of the sinful pride to which it was giving expression? I considered it my duty to continually direct attention to "my experience of full salvation," as it was called. "If you don't testify to it, you will lose the blessing," was accepted as an axiom among us.

As time went on, I began to be again conscious of inward desires toward evil--of thoughts that were unholy. I was nonplused. Going to a leading teacher for help, he said, "These are but temptations. Temptation is not sin. You only sin if you yield to the evil suggestion." This gave me peace for a time. I found it was the general way of excusing such evident movings of a fallen nature, which was supposed to have been eliminated. But gradually I sank to a lower and lower place, permitting things I would once have shunned; and I even observed that all about me did the same. The first ecstatic experiences seldom lasted long. The ecstasy departed, and the "sanctified" were very little different from their brethren who were supposed to be "only justified." We did not commit overt acts of evil: therefore we were sinless. Lust was not sin unless yielded to: so it was easy to go on testifying that all was right.

I purposely pass briefly over the next four years. In the main they were seasons of ignorantly happy service. I was young in years and in grace. My thoughts of sin, as well as of holiness, were very unformed and imperfect. Therefore it was easy, generally speaking, to think that I was living without the one, and manifesting the other. When doubts assailed, I treated them as temptations of the devil. If I became unmistakably conscious that I had actually sinned, I persuaded myself that at least it was not willful, but rather a mistake of the mind than an intentional error of the heart. Then I went to God in confession, and prayed to be cleansed from secret faults.

When but sixteen years of age I became a cadet; that is, a student for officership in the Salvation Army. During my probation in the Oakland Training Garrison I had more trouble than at any other time. The rigorous discipline and enforced intimate association with young men of so various tastes and tendencies, as also degrees of spiritual experience, was very hard on one of my supersensitive temperament. I saw very little holiness there, and I fear I exhibited much less. In fact, for the last two out of my five months' term I was all at sea, and dared not profess sanctification at all, owing to my low state. I was tormented with the thought that I had backslidden, and might be lost eternally after all my former happy experiences of the Lord's goodness. Twice I slipped out of the building when all were in bed, and made my way to a lonely spot where I spent the night in prayer, beseeching God not to take His Holy Spirit from me, but to again cleanse me fully from all inbred sin. Each time I "claimed it by faith," and was brighter for a few weeks; but I inevitably again fell into doubt and gloom, and was conscious of sinning both in thought and in word, and sometimes in unholy actions, which brought terrible remorse.

Finally, I was commissioned as lieutenant. Again I spent the night in prayer, feeling that I must not go out to teach and lead others unless myself pure and holy. Buoyed up with the thought of being free from the restraint I had been subjected to so long, it was comparatively easy this time to believe that the work of full inward cleansing was indeed consummated, and that I was now, if never before, actually rid of all carnality.

How readily one yields himself to self-deception in a matter of this kind! From this time on I became a more earnest advocate of the second blessing than ever; and I remember that often I prayed God to give my dear mother the blessing He had given me, and to make her as holy as her son had become. And that pious mother had known Christ before I was born, and knew her own heart too well to talk of sinlessness, though living a devoted, Christlike life!

As lieutenant for a year, and then as captain, I thoroughly enjoyed my work, gladly enduring hardship and privation that I fear I would shrink from now; generally confident that I was living out the doctrine of perfect love to God and man, and thereby making my own final salvation more secure. [Note: Perhaps I ought to explain for the benefit of the uninitiated that a "captain" has charge of a corps, or mission. A "lieutenant" assists a "captain."] And yet, as I now look back, what grave failures I can detect--what an unsubdued will--what lightness and frivolity--what lack of subjection to the word of God--what self-satisfaction and complacency! Alas, "man at his best estate is altogether vanity."

I was between eighteen and nineteen years of age when I began to entertain serious doubts as to my actually having attained so high a standard of Christian living as I had professed, and as the Army and other Holiness movements advocated as the only real Christianity. What led to this was of too personal and private a nature to publish; but it resulted in struggle and efforts toward self-crucifixion that brought disappointment and sorrow of a most poignant character; but it showed me beyond a doubt that the doctrine of death to nature was a miserable sophism, and that the carnal mind was still a part of my being.

Nearly eighteen months of an almost constant struggle followed. In vain I searched my heart to see if I had made a full surrender, and tried to give up every known thing that seemed in any sense evil or doubtful. Sometimes, for a month at a time, or even longer, I could persuade myself that at last I had indeed again received the blessing. But invariably a few weeks would bring before me once more that which proved that it was in my particular case all a delusion.

I did not dare open my heart to my assistants in the work, or to the "soldiers" who were under my guidance. To do so I felt would be to lose all influence with them and to be looked upon as a backslider. So, alone and in secret, I fought my battles and never went into a holiness meeting without persuading myself that now at least, I was fully surrendered and therefore must have the blessing of sanctification. Sometimes I called it entire consecration and felt easier. It did not seem to be claiming too much. I had no conception at the time of the hypocrisy of all this.

What made my distress more poignant was the knowledge that I was not the only sufferer. Another, one very dear to me, shared my doubts and anxieties from the same cause. For that other it eventually meant utter shipwreck of the faith; and one of the loveliest souls I ever knew was lost in the mazes of spiritualism. God grant it may not be forever, but that mercy may be found of the Lord in that day!

And now I began to see what a string of derelicts this holiness teaching left in its train. I could count scores of persons who had gone into utter infidelity because of it. They always gave the same reason: "I tried it all. I found it a failure. So I concluded the Bible teaching was all a delusion, and religion was a mere matter of the emotions." Many more (and I knew several such intimately) lapsed into insanity after floundering in the morass of this emotional religion for years--and people said that studying the Bible had driven them crazy. How little they knew that it was lack of Bible knowledge that was accountable for their wretched mental state--an absolutely unscriptural use of isolated passages of Scripture!

At last I became so troubled I could not go on with my work. I concluded to resign from the Salvation Army, and did so, but was persuaded by the colonel (note: answering to a bishop in some other denominations.) to wait six months ere the resignation took effect. At his suggestion I gave up corps work and went out on a special tour--where I did not need to touch the holiness question. But I preached to others many times when I was tormented by the thought that I might myself be finally lost, because, "without holiness no man shall see the Lord"; and, try as I would, I could not be sure I possessed it. I talked with any who seemed to me to really have the blessing I craved; but there were very few who, upon an intimate acquaintanceship, seemed genuine. I observed that the general state of "sanctified" people was as low, if not often lower, than that of those whom they contemptuously described as "only justified."

Finally, I could bear it no longer, so asked to be relieved from all active service, and at my own request was sent to the Beulah Home of Rest, near Oakland.

It was certainly time; for five years' active work, with only two brief furloughs, had left me almost a nervous wreck, worn out in body and most acutely distressed in mind.

The language of my troubled soul, after all those years of preaching to others, was, "Oh that I knew where I might find Him!" Finding Him not, I saw only the blackness of despair before me; but yet I knew too well His love and care to be completely cast down.

The Struggle Ended

I had now been for over five years laboring in the organization with which I had linked myself, and ever seeking to be certain that I had attained a sinless state. In some twelve different towns and cities I had served, as I thought, faithfully, endeavoring to reach the lost, and to make out of them staunch Salvationists when converted. Many happy experiences had been mine, coupled, however, with some most gloomy disappointments, both as to myself and others. Very few of our "converts" stood. "Backsliders" often outnumbered by far our "soldiers." The ex-Salvation Army was many times larger than the original organization.

One great reason for this I was blind to for a long time. But at last it began to be clear to me that the holiness doctrine had a most baneful influence upon the movement. People who professed conversion (whether real or not the day will declare) struggled for months, even years, to reach a state of sinlessness which never was reached; and at last they gave up in despair and sank back in many instances to the dead level of the world around them.

I saw that it was the same with all the holiness denominations, and the various "Bands," "Missions," and other movements, that were continually breaking off from them. The standard set was the unattainable. The result was, sooner or later, utter discouragement, cunningly-concealed hypocrisy, or an unconscious lowering of the standard to suit the experience reached. For myself, I had been ensnared by that last expedient for a long time. How much of the second there was I do not dare to say. But eventually I fell a victim to the first. And I can now see that it was a mercy I did so.

When I went to the Home of Rest, I had not yet fully given up seeking for perfection in the flesh. I really expected great things from the six months' furlough granted me, in order to "find myself," as it were.

Closely allied to the Home were other institutions where holiness and faith-healing were largely dwelt upon. I felt sure that in so hallowed an atmosphere great things would be accomplished.

In the rest home I found about fourteen officers, broken in health, seeking recuperation. I watched the ways and conversation of all most carefully, intending to confide in those who gave the best evidence of entire sanctification. There were some choice souls among them, and some arrogant hypocrites. But holiness in the absolute sense I saw in none. Some were very godly and devoted. Their conscientiousness I could not doubt. But those who talked the loudest were plainly the least spiritual. They seldom read their Bibles, they rarely conversed together of Christ. An air of carelessness pervaded the whole place. Three sisters, most devoted women, were apparently more godly than any others; but two of them admitted to me that they were not sure about being perfectly holy. The other one was non-committal, though seeking to help me. Some were positively quarrelsome and boorish, and this I could not reconcile with their profession of freedom from inbred sin. I attended the meetings held by the other workers I have mentioned. There the best of them did not teach sinless perfection; while the manifestly carnal gloried in their experience of perfect love! Sick people testified to being healed by faith, and sinning people declared they had the blessing of holiness! I was not helped, but hindered, by the inconsistency of it all.

At last I found myself becoming cold and cynical. Doubts as to everything assailed me like a legion of demons, and I became almost afraid to let my mind dwell on these things. For refuge I turned to secular literature, and sent for my books, which some years before I had foresworn on condition that God would give me the "second blessing." How little I realized the Jacob-spirit in all this! God seemed to have failed; so I took up my books once more, and tried to find solace in the beauties of essays and poetry, or the problems of history and science. I did not dare to confess to myself that I was literally an agnostic; yet for a month at least I could only answer, "I do not know" to every question based on divine revelation.

This was the legitimate result of the teaching I had been under. I reasoned that the Bible promised entire relief from indwelling sin to all who were wholly surrendered to the will of God. That I had thus surrendered seemed to me certain. Why then had I not been fully delivered from the carnal mind? It seemed to me that I had met every condition, and that God, on His part, had failed to perform what He had promised. I know it is wretched to write all this: but I see no other way to help others who are in the same state that I was in for that awful month.

Deliverance came at last in a most unexpected way. A lassie-lieutenant, a woman some ten years my senior in age, was brought to the Home from Rock Springs, Wyoming, supposedly dying of consumption. From the first my heart went out to her in deep sympathy. To me she was a martyr, laying down her life for a needy world. I was much in her company, observed her closely, and finally came to the conclusion that she was the only wholly sanctified person in that place.

Imagine my surprise when, a few weeks after her arrival, she, with a companion, came to me one evening and begged me to read to her; remarking, "I hear you are always occupied with the things of the Lord, and I need your help." I, the one to help her! I was dumbfounded, knowing so well the plague of my own heart, and being fully assured as to her perfection in holiness. At the very moment they entered my room I was reading Byron's Childe Harold. And I was supposed to be entirely devoted to the things of God! It struck me as weird and fantastic, rather than as a solemn farce--all this comparing ourselves with ourselves, only to be deluded every time.

I hastily thrust the book to one side, and wondered what to choose to read aloud. In God's providence a pamphlet caught my attention which my mother had given me some years before, but which I had dreaded to read lest it might upset me; so afraid had I been of anything that did not bear the Army or Holiness stamp. Moved by a sudden impulse, I drew it forth and said, "I'll read this. It is not in accordance with our teaching; but it may be interesting anyway."

I read page after page, paying little attention, only hoping to soothe and quiet this dying woman. In it the lost condition of all men by nature was emphasized. Redemption in Christ through His death was explained. Then there was much as to the believer's two natures, and his eternal security, which to me seemed both ridiculous and absurd. The latter part was occupied with prophecy. Upon that we did not enter. I was startled after going over the first half of the book when Lieut. J--exclaimed, "O Captain, do you think that can possibly be true? If I could only believe that, I could die in peace!"

Astonished beyond measure, I asked, "What! do you mean to say you could not die in peace as you are? You are justified and sanctified; you have an experience I have sought in vain for years; and are you troubled about dying?" "I am miserable," she replied, "and you mustn't say I am sanctified. I cannot get it. I have struggled for years, but I have not reached it yet. This is why I wanted to speak to you, for I felt so sure you had it and could help me!"

We looked at each other in amazement; and as the pathos and yet ludicrousness of it all burst upon us, I laughed deliriously, while she wept hysterically. Then I remember exclaiming, "Whatever is the matter with us all? No one on earth denies himself more for Christ's sake than we. We suffer, and starve, and wear ourselves out in the endeavor to do the will of God; yet after all we have no lasting peace. We are happy at times; we enjoy our meetings; but we are never certain as to what the end will be."

"Do you think," she asked, "that it is because we depend upon our own efforts too much? Can it be that we trust Christ to save us, but we think we have to keep saved by our own faithfulness--?"

"But," I broke in, "to think anything else would open the door to all kinds of sin!"

And so we talked till, wearied out, she arose to go, but asked if she and others might return the next evening to read and talk of these things we had gone over--a permission which was readily granted.

For both Lieut. J--and myself that evening's reading and exchange of confidences proved the beginning of our deliverance. We had frankly owned to one another, and to the third party present, that we were not sanctified. We now began to search the Scriptures earnestly for light and help. I threw all secular books to one side, determined to let nothing hinder the careful, prayerful study of the word of God. Little by little, the light began to dawn. We saw that we had been looking within for holiness, instead of without. We realized that the same grace that had saved us at first alone could carry us on. Dimly we apprehended that all for us must be in Christ, or we were without a ray of hope.

Many questions perplexed and troubled us. Much that we had believed we soon saw to be utterly opposed to the word of God. Much more we could not understand, so completely warped had our minds become through the training of years. In my perplexity I sought out a teacher of the Word who, I understood, was in fellowship with the writer of the pamphlet I have referred to above. I heard him with profit on two occasions, but still was in measure bewildered, though I began to feel solid ground beneath my feet once more. The great truth was getting a grip of me that holiness, perfect love, sanctification, and every other blessing, were mine in Christ from the moment I had believed, and mine forevermore, all because of pure grace. I had been looking at the wrong man--all was in another Man, and in that Man for me! But it took weeks to see this.

A booklet entitled Safety, Certainty, and Enjoyment proved helpful to both of us, and was a source of cheer. Other tracts were given me, and read with earnest purpose, looking up every reference, searching context and other passages of like, or apparently opposite, character, while daily we cried to God for the knowledge of His truth. Miss J--saw it ere I did. The light came when she realized that she was eternally linked with Christ as Head, and had eternal life in Him as the Vine, in her as the branch. Her joy knew no bounds, and she actually improved in health from that hour, and lived for six years after; finally going to be with the Lord, worn out in seeking to lead others to Christ. Many will be disappointed to know that she maintained her connection with the Army to the last. She had a mistaken (I believe) notion that she should remain where she was, and declare the truth she had learned. But ere she died she repented of this. Her last words to a brother (A.B.S.) and me, who were with her very near the end, were: "I have everything in Christ--of that I am sure. But I wish I had been more faithful as to the truth I learned about the Body--the Church. I was misled by zeal which I thought was of God, and it is too late to be faithful now!"

Four days after the truth burst upon her soul in that Home of Rest, I, too, had every doubt and fear removed, and found my all in Christ. To go on where I was, I could not. Within a week I was outside of the only human system I had ever been in as a Christian, and for many years since I have known no head but Christ, no body but the Church which He purchased with His own blood. They have been happy years; and as I look back over all the way the Lord has led me, I can but praise Him for the matchless grace that gave me to see that perfect holiness and perfect love were to be found, not in me, but in Christ Jesus alone.

And I have been learning all along my pilgrim journey that the more my heart is taken up with Christ, the more do I enjoy practical deliverance from sin's power, and the more do I realize what it is to have the love of God shed abroad in that heart by the Holy Spirit given to me, as the Earnest of the glory to come. I have found liberty and joy since being freed from bondage that I never thought it possible for a soul to know on earth, while I have a confidence in presenting this precious truth for the acceptance of others that contrasts with the uncertainty of the past.

To read part II, examining the doctrine of true holiness, click here: http://puregospeltruth.com/holinesstwo.htm

sermonindex Jan 29, 2008

The great truth was getting a grip of me that holiness, perfect love, sanctification, and every other blessing, were mine in Christ from the moment I had believed, and mine forevermore, [b]all because of pure grace[/b]. I had been looking at the wrong man--all was in another Man, and in that Man for me!

H
hmmhmm Jan 29, 2008

It seem to me, not only in this debate, that people in their earnest and sincere attempt to have the sound and right doctrine, they either go off left or right.

there is a balance, i mean you cant live a unholy life and say "chirst is my holiness" and yet live in sin? to me it is like this, if you profess you have the God of the universe inside you dwelling by the Holy Spirit... you will be holy, he will make you holy.

we will be as holy as as much of Christ we have, how can we know him and not be holy?

can we be perfect? no i dont think so, do we have to sin? no i dont think so. Scripture says he is able to keep us from falling, scripture says he is able to save to the uttermost. Can we be perfect in that sense we never sin again? i dont know, i am not there by a long shot. Also i think we very much mix up the things justification and sanctification.

but in the attempt of adjusting someone who gone off to the left off sound doctrine we grab a rope and swing over to the other side completely...

Deu 17:19 He must always keep this copy of the law with him and read it daily as long as he lives. That way he will learn to fear the LORD his God by obeying all the terms of this law.
Deu 17:20 This regular reading will prevent him from becoming proud and acting as if he is above his fellow citizens. It will also prevent him from turning away from these commands in the smallest way. This will ensure that he and his descendants will reign for many generations in Israel.

NLT

sermonindex Jan 29, 2008

It seem to me, not only in this debate, that people in their earnest and sincere attempt to have the sound and right doctrine, they either go off left or right.

there is a balance, i mean you cant live a unholy life and say "chirst is my holiness" and yet live in sin? to me it is like this, if you profess you have the God of the universe inside you dwelling by the Holy Spirit... you will be holy, he will make you holy.

I agree hmmhmm, but as the article says, if you rely on yourself for that holiness then you will fail. It's only when you realise that you can do all things [i]through Christ[/i] and through Him alone that you start to see fruit.

This article and testimony spoke so true to me, and came at such a perfect time. I have been trying to rely on myself for victory over sin and peace in the faith, but it's only when you come to Christ and rely on Him for these things, and claim them through Him that they are attainable. Reliance on Christ is paramount in the Christian walk.

I did a Biblegateway.com search for the words 'through Christ' and in the NT letters there were literally tens of verses that spoke of different things that were available through Christ only. Romans 5, 1 Corinthians 15:57, 2 Corinthians 3:4, Galatians 3:26, Philippians 4:13. Then there's John 1:7, John 10:9...

How comforting it is to know that Christ our Saviour has done it all for us. If it was up to me to make myself deserve God's love, then I may as well be left to die now, because it will never happen.

But Christ is our Saviour. Hallelujah!

John 4:16 - 'I am the way and the truth and the life. [b]No one[/b] comes to the Father [b]except through me[/b].'

H
hmmhmm Jan 29, 2008

also do a search "in Christ" and you will find a blessed study..i did this recently, very refreshing and encouraging to see what we have and are in HIM.

I just want to keep people in the middle road, balance.... thats all....

God bless you all

Christian

B
BlazedbyGod Jan 29, 2008


hmmhmm wrote:
[b]can we be perfect? no i dont think so,[/b] do we have to sin? no i dont think so. Scripture says he is able to keep us from falling, scripture says he is able to save to the uttermost. Can we be perfect in that sense we never sin again? i dont know, i am not there by a long shot. Also i think we very much mix up the things justification and sanctification.

Gen 6:9These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man [b]and perfect[/b] in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and [b]be thou perfect.[/b]

Deut 18:13 Thou shalt be [b]perfect[/b] with the LORD thy God.

1 Kings 8:61Let your heart therefore be [b]perfect[/b] with the LORD our God, to walk in his statutes, and to keep his commandments, as at this day.

1 Kings 15:14 But the high places were not removed: nevertheless [b]Asa's heart was perfect with the LORD ALL his days.[/b]

Matt 5:48 [b]Be ye therefore perfect,[/b] EVEN AS [b]your Father which is in heaven is perfect[/b]

Luke 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that [b]IS perfect shall be as his master[/b]

Just thought I would list a few. In Matt 5:48 we are told by Jesus to be the same level of perfection as our Father which is in heaven is perfect-WOW.........such a Blessing

M
murrcolr Jan 29, 2008

This consecration consists in a perfect putting off of your own will, your disposition, temper, desires, likes and dislikes, and a perfect putting on of Christ's will, Christ's disposition, temper, desires, likes and dislikes. In short, perfect consecration is a putting off self and a putting on Christ; a giving up your own will in all things and receiving the will of Jesus instead.

This may seem well-nigh impossible and very disagreeable to your unsanctified heart; but if you mean business for eternity, and will intelligently and unflinchingly look at this strait gate through which so few enter, and tell the Lord that you want to go through that way, though it cost you your life, the Holy Spirit will soon show you that it is not only possible, but easy and delightful thus to yield yourself to God.

When Paul wrote to the church in Thessalonica, he praised them for being "ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia," and added, "in every place your faith to Godward is spread abroad" (I Thess. i. 7, 8). That was the best believing church in all Europe, and so real and
sturdy was their faith that they could endure much persecution, as we see from chaps. i. 6, ii. 14, and iii. 2-5; so that Paul says, "We were comforted over you, in all our affliction and distress by your faith" (iii. 7). Strong faith that, but it was not perfect, for Paul adds, "Night and day praying exceedingly that we might see your face, and might perfect that which is lacking in your faith" (iii.10). And because of their imperfect faith they were not sanctified; so we find the Apostle praying, "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly" (v. 23).

All who are born of God and have the witness of His Spirit to their justification know full well that it was not through any good works of their own, nor by growing into it, that they were
saved, but it was "by grace through faith" (Eph. ii. 8). But very many of these dear people seem to think that we are to grow into sanctification, or are to get it by our own works.

Matt 19 v 21Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." 22When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. 23Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." 25When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?" 26 Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."


With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

C
crsschk Jan 29, 2008

[u][b]Perfect[/b][/u]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gen 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and [b]perfect[/b] in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou [b]perfect[/b].

Eze 28:15 Thou wast [b]perfect[/b] in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

[b]H8549[/b]

תּמים

tâmîym

[i]taw-meem'[/i]

From H8552; [i]entire[/i] (literally, figuratively or morally); also (as noun) [i]integrity, truth:[/i] - without blemish, complete, full, perfect, sincerely (-ity), sound, without spot, undefiled, upright (-ly), whole.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Deu 25:15 But thou shalt have a [b]perfect[/b] and just weight, a [b]perfect[/b] and just measure shalt thou have: that thy days may be lengthened in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

2Ki 20:3 I beseech thee, O LORD, remember now how I have walked before thee in truth and with a [b]perfect[/b] heart, and have done that which is good in thy sight. And Hezekiah wept sore.


[b]H8003[/b]

שׁלם

shâlêm

[i]shaw-lame'[/i]

From H7999; [i]complete[/i] (literally or figuratively); especially [i]friendly[/i]. ([i]shalem[/i] used by mistake for a name.): - full, just, made ready, peaceable, perfect (-ed), quiet, Shalem [by mistake for a name], whole.

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Isa 42:19 Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is [b]perfect[/b], and blind as the LORD'S servant?

[b]H7999[/b]

שׁלם

shâlam

[i]shaw-lam'[/i]

A primitive root; to [i]be safe[/i] (in mind, body or estate); figuratively to [i]be[/i] (causatively [i]make[/i]) [i]completed[/i]; by implication to [i]be friendly[/i]; by extension to reciprocate (in various applications): - make amends, (make an) end, finish, full, give again, make good, (re-) pay (again), (make) (to) (be at) peace (-able), that is perfect, perform, (make) prosper (-ous), recompense, render, requite, make restitution, restore, reward, X surely.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pro 4:18 But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the [b]perfect[/b] day.

[b]H3559[/b]

כּוּן

kûn

[i]koon[/i]

A primitive root; properly to [i]be erect[/i] (that is, stand perpendicular);. hence (causatively) to [i]set up[/i], in a great variety of applications, whether literal ([i]establish, fix, prepare, apply[/i]), or figurative ([i]appoint, render sure, proper or prosperous[/i]): - certain (-ty), confirm, direct, faithfulness, fashion, fasten, firm, be fitted, be fixed, frame, be meet, ordain, order, perfect, (make) preparation, prepare (self), provide, make provision, (be, make) ready, right, set (aright, fast, forth), be stable, (e-) stablish, stand, tarry, X very deed.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a [b]perfect[/b] and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?


Job 9:20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am [b]perfect[/b], it shall also prove me perverse.


[b]H8535[/b]

תּם

tâm

[i]tawm[/i]

From H8552; [i]complete[/i]; usually (morally) [i]pious[/i]; specifically [i]gentle, dear:[/i] - coupled together, perfect, plain, undefiled, upright.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Eze 16:14 And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was [b]perfect[/b] through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD.

Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and [b]perfect[/b] in beauty.


[b]H3632[/b]

כּליל

kâlîyl

[i]kaw-leel'[/i]

From H3634; [i]complete;[/i] as noun, the [i]whole[/i] (specifically a sacrifice [i]entirely consumed[/i]); as adverb [i]fully[/i]: - all, every whit, flame, perfect (-ion), utterly, whole burnt offering (sacrifice), wholly.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore [b]perfect[/b], even as your Father which is in heaven is [b]perfect[/b].

Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be [b]perfect[/b], go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven:

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and [b]perfect[/b], will of God.

1Co 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are [b]perfect[/b]: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

1Co 13:10 But when that which is [b]perfect[/b] is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a [b]perfect[/b] man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be [b]perfect[/b], be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man [b]perfect[/b] in Christ Jesus:

Col 4:12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand [b]perfect[/b] and complete in all the will of God.

Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more [b]perfect[/b] tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Jas 1:4 But let patience have her [b]perfect[/b] work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every [b]perfect[/b] gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the [b]perfect[/b] law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Jas 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a [b]perfect[/b] man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

1Jn 4:18 There is no fear in love; but [b]perfect[/b] love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

[b]G5046[/b]

τέλειος

teleios

[i]tel'-i-os[/i]

From G5056; [i]complete[/i] (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) [i]completeness[/i]: - of full age, man, perfect.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Luk 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is [b]perfect[/b] shall be as his master.

2Co 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be [b]perfect[/b], be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

1Th 3:10 Night and day praying exceedingly that we might see your face, and might [b]perfect[/b] that which is lacking in your faith?

Heb 13:21 Make you [b]perfect[/b] in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

1Pe 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you [b]perfect[/b], stablish, strengthen, settle you.


[b]G2675[/b]

καταρτίζω

katartizō

[i]kat-ar-tid'-zo[/i]

From G2596 and a derivative of G739; to [i]complete thoroughly[/i], that is, [i]repair[/i] (literally or figuratively) or [i]adjust[/i]: - fit, frame, mend, (make) perfect (-ly join together), prepare, restore.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made [b]perfect[/b] in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made [b]perfect[/b] in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already [b]perfect[/b]: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation [b]perfect[/b] through sufferings.

Heb 5:9 And being made [b]perfect[/b], he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing [b]perfect[/b], but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Heb 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service [b]perfect[/b], as pertaining to the conscience;

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto [b]perfect[/b].

Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made [b]perfect[/b].

Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made [b]perfect[/b],

Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made [b]perfect[/b]?

1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made [b]perfect[/b], that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.


[b]G5048[/b]

τελειόω

teleioō

[i]tel-i-o'-o[/i]

From G5046; to [i]complete[/i], that is, (literally) [i]accomplish[/i], or (figuratively) [i]consummate[/i] (in character): - consecrate, finish, fulfil, (make) perfect.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Luk 1:3 It seemed good to me also, having had [b]perfect[/b] understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

[b]G199[/b]

ἀκριβῶς

akribōs

[i]ak-ree-boce'[/i]

Adverb from the same as [b]G196[/b]; [i]exactly[/i]: - circumspectly, diligently, perfect (-ly).

[b]G196[/b]

ἀκριβέστατος

akribestatos

[i]ak-ree-bes'-ta-tos[/i]

Superlative of ἀκριβης akribēs (a derivative of the same as [b]G206[/b]); [i]most exact[/i]: - most straitest.

[b]G206[/b]

ἄκρον

akron

[i]ak'-ron[/i]

Neuter of an adjective probably akin to the base of [b]G188[/b]; the [i]extremity[/i]: - one end . . . other, tip, top, uttermost part.


[b]G188[/b]

ἀκμήν

akmēn

[i]ak-mane'[/i]

Accusative case of a noun ([i]“acme”[/i]) akin to ἀκή akē (a [i]point[/i]) and meaning the same; adverbially [i]just[/i] now, that is, [i]still[/i]: - yet.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made [b]perfect[/b] by the flesh?

[b]G2005[/b]

ἐπιτελέω

epiteleō

[i]ep-ee-tel-eh'-o[/i]

From [b]G1909[/b] and [b]G5055[/b]; to [i]fulfill further[/i] (or [i]completely[/i]), that is, [i]execute[/i]; by implication to [i]terminate, undergo[/i]: - accomplish, do, finish, (make) (perfect), perform (X -ance).

[b]G1909[/b]

ἐπί

epi

[i]ep-ee'[/i]

A primary preposition properly meaning [i]superimposition[/i] (of time, place, order, etc.), as a relation of [i]distribution[/i] [with the genitive case], that is, [i]over, upon[/i], etc.; of [i]rest[/i] (with the dative case) [i]at, on[/i], etc.; of [i]direction[/i] (with the accusative case) [i]towards, upon[/i], etc.: - about (the times), above, after, against, among, as long as (touching), at, beside, X have charge of, (be-, [where-]) fore, in (a place, as much as, the time of, -to), (because) of, (up-) on (behalf of) over, (by, for) the space of, through (-out), (un-) to (-ward), with. In compounds it retains essentially the same import, [i]at, upon,[/i] etc. (literally or figuratively).

[b]G5055[/b]

τελέω

teleō

[i]tel-eh'-o[/i]

From [b]G5056[/b]; to [i]end[/i], that is, [i]complete, execute, conclude, discharge[/i] (a debt): - accomplish, make an end, expire, fill up, finish, go over, pay, perform.

[b]G5056[/b]

τέλος

telos

[i]tel'-os[/i]

From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to [i]set out[/i] for a definite point or [i]goal[/i]); properly the point aimed at as a [i]limit[/i], that is, (by implication) the [i]conclusion[/i] of an act or state ([i]termination[/i] [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], [i]result[/i] [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], [i]purpose[/i]); specifically an [i]impost[/i] or [i]levy[/i] (as [i]paid[/i]): - + continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be [b]perfect[/b], throughly furnished unto all good works.


[b]G739[/b]

ἄρτιος

artios

[i]ar'-tee-os[/i]

From [b]G737[/b]; [i]fresh[/i], that is, (by implication) [i]complete:[/i] - perfect.

[b]G737[/b]

ἄρτι

arti

[i]ar'-tee[/i]

Adverb from a derivative of [b]G142[/b] (compare [b]G740[/b]) through the idea of [i]suspension[/i]; just [i]now[/i]: - this day (hour), hence [-forth], here [-after], hither [-to], (even) now, (this) present.

[b]G142[/b]

αἴρω

airō

[i]ah'ee-ro[/i]

A primary verb; to [i]lift[/i]; by implication to [i]take up[/i] or [i]away[/i]; figuratively to [i]raise[/i] (the voice), [i]keep in suspense[/i] (the mind); specifically to [i]sail[/i] away (that is, [i]weigh anchor[/i]); by Hebraism (compare [[b]H5375[/b]]) to [i]expiate[/i] sin: - away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up).


[b]H5375[/b]

נסה נשׂא

nâśâ' nâsâh

[i]naw-saw', naw-saw'[/i]

A primitive root; to [i]lift[/i], in a great variety of applications, literally and figuratively, absolutely and relatively: - accept, advance, arise, (able to, [armour], suffer to) bear (-er, up), bring (forth), burn, carry (away), cast, contain, desire, ease, exact, exalt (self), extol, fetch, forgive, furnish, further, give, go on, help, high, hold up, honourable (+ man), lade, lay, lift (self) up, lofty, marry, magnify, X needs, obtain, pardon, raise (up), receive, regard, respect, set (up), spare, stir up, + swear, take (away, up), X utterly, wear, yield.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works [b]perfect[/b] before God.

[b]G4137[/b]

πληρόω

plēroō

[i]play-ro'-o[/i]

From [b]G4134[/b]; to [i]make replete[/i], that is, (literally) to [i]cram[/i] (a net), [i]level[/i] up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to [i]furnish[/i] (or [i]imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute[/i] (an office), [i]finish[/i] (a period or task), [i]verify[/i] (or [i]coincide[/i] with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.

[b]G4134[/b]

πλήρης

plērēs

[i]play'-race[/i]

From [b]G4130[/b]; [i]replete[/i], or [i]covered[/i] over; by analogy [i]complete:[/i] - full.

[b]G4130[/b]

πλήθω

plēthō

[i]play'-tho, pleh'-o,[/i]

A prolonged form of a primary word πλέω pleō (which appears only as an alternate in certain tenses and in the reduplicated form of πίμπλημι pimplēmi to [i]“fill”[/i] (literally or figuratively [[i]imbue, influence, supply[/i]]); specifically to [i]fulfil[/i] (time): - accomplish, full (. . . come), furnish.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


This is nowhere exhaustive. Remarkable, I had no idea there were so many descriptive derivatives. There is still yet more.

[i]Edit: Added in the remaining New Testament usages where they were keyed by a Strong's number. At some later point may go back and add in the remaining Old Testament notations.[/i]

P
psalm1 Jan 29, 2008

The problem with holiness is, the church tries to make it one dimensional.
Some take this position or that,thinking their right and the other is wrong.
So many facets to one truth.
Holiness....The degree of my holy progress?
Holiness....the degree of my mortification?
Do I become holy,or have I been made holy?
If I sin am I still holy?
Will I ever stop committing sin?
Am i holy because of my lack of sin?
Is Holiness possible for a believer?

Like the article says the holiness crowd is in delusion. No one is sinless,therefore we must have His holiness .
We have the Holy One living inside us.
WE have his holiness
Holiness we produce is prideful filthy rags.
Religious people have their "holy" lives and are quick to let you know how much more holier they are than you.
"The letter killeth but the Spirit giveth life"
"Walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh"


The issue of holiness is settled through Jesus

"He was tempted in all things but remained sinless"

The rub in our walk is not holiness but walking in Love,joy ,freedom and victory.

Do you ever "get into the spirit"?
I do through worship. It is our avenue to walking with God.
To be immersed and saturated with God every day.

Through the infilling of the Holy Spirit, and being continually filled, our walk is not a duty, or a contest......It is an adventure!


David

H
hmmhmm Jan 29, 2008

I listened to Ravenhill yesterday night, he said "are you suggesting satan so corrupted the human race it is impossible for God to fully restore it?"

or something alike that.... and he does have a point, seem sometimes the only thing God cant do, is making a human stop sinning, And i think of that wesley quote....if you rely on stop sinning at death, then you make death your savior and not Christ....

M
murrcolr Jan 29, 2008

John Wesley, Church of England. Founder of the Holy Club at Oxford University in the early 1730s; preached throughout the United Kingdom for about forty years and was the instigator of what is now called the Great Awakening. Thousands upon thousands came to the Lord through his ministry. He also went to the USA and had tremendous impact there. He taught Entire Sanctification as a definite second work of grace

George Whitefield, Church of England. Also a member of the Holy Club at Oxford University. He taught Wesley open-air preaching. At Bristol up to 40,000 people gathered including many coal miners. Thousands were saved. Like Wesley, he toured the UK with tremendous results. When he came to London he preached in the great parks ending in Hyde Park with over 80,000 people attending. Again thousands were saved. Once when preaching in Yorkshire two people were struck dead in the crowd. Great fear came on the people and again many came to the Lord. He had great impact too in the USA, particularly in Northampton where Jonathan Edwards had prepared the ground.

Rev. William Haslam, Church of England, Cornwall. He was saved in his pulpit while he was preaching a sermon! Billy Bray (see below) prayed for him and after he received Full Salvation he and Billy Bray, turned Cornwall and Devon upside down. While preaching to a crowd, the power of God moved and, in his own words, ‘It was like a cannon shot mowing down eight people deep going through the crowd.”. His church at Baldhu was the centre of Revival. It was built to take 600 people; 1600 packed inside. He then went to Norfolk and the Lord used him to start a Revival there.

Billy Bray, Primitive Methodist, and Bryanite (Bible Christians). Billy had an amazing conversion from being a complete drunkard. He was a Cornish tin miner and was saved and sanctified in 1823. He became a mighty preacher and was well known for his joy and was called the Glory Man.

Hudson Taylor, Founder of China Inland Mission. He was saved and Sanctified as a young man and called as a missionary to China. He trained up many Chinese evangelists who, despite communism, passed on the great truths of Christianity and it is now estimated that there are between fifty and eighty millions of Chinese Christians today due to this holy man’s life and influence.

Paget Wilkes, Founder of the Japan Evangelistic Band. The Evangelistic Band, unconnected with any denomination, reached thousands for the Lord, and trained up hundreds of Sanctified Evangelists. He founded a Bible School and, as at the conventions held throughout Japan (and in Swanwick, England) Scriptural Holiness was taught and souls brought into the real experience of Full Salvation. His ministry also affected China and in his latter years America and Canada. His classic book, called sanctification, was a best seller.

Smith Wigglesworth, Boland Street Mission, Bradford, England. He was Sanctified and aptised in the Holy Spirit within a few weeks in 1907 (the latter at Sunderland, England). He was mightily used in many parts of the world, starting Revivals, healing the sick, delivering
people from demons, and raising the dead. In one incident in a Norwegian town, the town hall was packed and there were thousands outside. Every person who needed healing was healed and veryone was saved! There were incidents when he entered trains or buses when everyone in the vehicle would come under conviction of sin and was saved

Jeremiah Lanphier, Dutch Reform Church worker. Lanphier’s dedication to the work of God came only after a struggle and total surrender to God. He was prompted to hand out leaflets for a weekly hours’ lunchtime prayer meeting which then became daily. Then came the first Stock Exchange crash in October 1857. Approximately three weeks after commencing, the prayer meeting grew to three thousand and then to ten thousand meeting every day. Within two months there were at least twenty other prayer meetings in New York with one hundred thousand at prayer. It then spread to a great part of the USA and an estimated one million were soundly saved, all from one man who was Entirely Sanctified.

Guy Bevington, Methodist Holiness Evangelist. A true evangelist if ever there was one! His work was mainly confined to Ohio and Kentucky in the USA. He used to fast and pray for a village or a small town for about a week or more, and then when God released him, enter the town and preach. Down would come the Holy Spirit and hundreds would get saved and healed, believers would be sanctified and baptised in the Holy Spirit. Again he was a fully Sanctified saint of God and he taught and preached Full Salvation.

Samuel L Brengle, Salvation Army. An early Salvation Army Commissioner mightily used by God. Sanctified and Baptised in the Holy Spirit in 1885. He wrote many books on Entire sanctification; his most famous ‘Helps to Holiness’ being a classic on this subject.

Charles Finney. A man mightily used by God. While a pastor in New York he became convinced through studying the Bible that ‘an altogether higher and more stable form of Christian life was attainable’ (Sanctification – PK). He experienced and preached the doctrine of Entire Sanctification. A series of Lectures on Revivals given in New York were afterwards published Called, Finney’s Lectures on Revival. Thousands upon thousands of copies were produced worldwide and were instrumental in promoting Revivals in England, Scotland, Wales, Canada, and Nova scotia. After forty years of preaching and powerfully praying it was estimated that over two hundred and fifty thousand people were converted as a result of his ministry

John G Govan, Founder of The Faith Mission, Scotland.
In 1884 John Govan was Sanctified wholly and within two years, after successful missions in the Glasgow suburbs, he founded The Faith Mission and started training others to go out and evangelise. He insisted that they be saved, and Sanctified before letting them go into the Highlands and Islands of Scotland. The result was that the ‘pilgrims’ through prayer and
preaching, started, or were involved with, many Revivals, the most famous of which is the Lewis Revival of 1949-1952. This organisation has started more Revivals in the British Isles than all other organisations put together, all from one man Sanctified and Baptised in the Holy
Spirit. His testimony is truly inspiring and the results amazing.

Rev. Duncan Campbell, The Faith Mission Scotland.
One of the best known evangelists of The Faith Mission. He started the Mid-Argyll Revival in Scotland and also the Revival in the Isle of Skye. He was involved with the Isles of Lewis and Harris Revivals and also the Revival of North Uist. He was Sanctified in the battlefield in the First World War and imediately afterwards seven Canadian soldiers were gloriously saved at the casualty clearing station when the Holy Spirit poured out of him and brought conviction to those present without him speaking a word in English!

James McQuilkin, Calvinist Presbyterian, Northern Ireland. He was saved and Sanctified in 1857 and started a prayer meeting with some friends and fervently prayed for Revival. Their prayers were answered and at the end of 1858 there were fifty young men in the meeting. In 1859 the Revival broke out in Kells and swept over the whole of Northern Ireland and in that year one hundred thousand souls were swept into the Kingdom out of a population of one million! Hallelujah!

“Were Wesley, Whitefield, Finney, Hudson Taylor special editions of ministers? Never!

If I read the Book of Acts aright, they were just the norm.”

‘Why Revival Tarries’ by Leonard Ravenhill

M
murrcolr Jan 29, 2008

“Mr Paget Wilkes writes with some amusement of those ‘who talk about the Japan Evangelistic
Band teachings (i.e. Holiness and the blessing of Full Salvation – PK) as though it were some
new kind of truth’! It has been the message of saints of God down the centuries and was the
foundation of the glorious Revivals of pure religion (Christianity) under the original Quakers, the Methodists and the Salvation Army, and wherever it is truly known and experienced, it is the bringer-in of Revival today”

Why Has This Truth Been Lost to Today’s Church

The majority of the Sanctified saints who experienced Full Salvation have passed on to glory.

The emergence of the Pentecostal/charismatic movement majored on the ‘gifts’ and ‘power’ rather than the crucified life, repentance and holiness.

The old timers of 50 years or more preached on the severity and judgement of God, including the teaching of the existence of hell. This brought the fear of the Lord, an awareness of their lost condition and a solemn reverence to the Believer, as well as their rejoicing in the love and goodness of God. Today, too frequently, only the love of God is preached, sometimes Fostering, a casual approach to a holy God – resulting often in the ‘candy-coated’ and ‘easy-believism’ Gospel.

In general there is no teaching on this truth of Entire Sanctification or the Clean Heart.

“My people perish for lack of knowledge.” Hosea 4:6

“We must first hear so that we may know what is to be believed. A measure of knowledge is essential to faith, hence the importance of acquiring knowledge” C. H. Spurgeon.

This truth MUST return to today’s church so that it truly and experientially will be “a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing: but that it should be holy and without blemish….” Ephesians 5:27

glorifying the Lord – the spotless, pure bride having made herself ready for Jesus the Bridegroom see Revelation 19:7

C
ChrisJD Jan 29, 2008

Hi everyone,


I wonder if I could ask something here.


Probably everyone reading here is familiar with Romans 3:23, and I can imagine that it might seem overly simplisitic to even mention it in the context of this discussion.


But, if I could ask this here, have we really thought about what this verse is saying to us?


Just how far is it to fall short of God's glory?

Have we missed it by a couple of feet?

A few inches?

John the Apostle writes:


"and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."


Some thoughts,

Chris

M
murrcolr Jan 30, 2008

May I, with the words of Sidlow Baxter, challenge you once more, as he urges us, to interrogate ourselves?

I am truly converted – but am I truly consecrated?

I now possess Christ – but do I let him really possess me?

I am spiritually regenerated – but am I morally renewed?

I have the new life – but do I experience the “life more abundant”?

I am into “the blessing of the Gospel” – but do I have “the fullness of the blessing”? (Romans 15:29)

I am out of Egypt – but am I living in Canaan?

I am “risen with Christ”, (Ephesians 2:6.) – but am I “reigning with Christ”? (Romans 5:17)

I know Him as my imputed righteousness – but do I know Him as my imparted righteousness?

I have “peace with God” – but do I have peace from God filling my soul?

If the answer to these questions is NO – let it spur you on, with all your heart, to seek and search for the Clean Heart set free from the power of sin!

J
jimp Jan 30, 2008

hi, why do we have to go back before martin luther had this same experience and came up with the same conclusion.we are saved...sanctified... glorified by grace thru faith in the finished work of Jesus on the cross.it is all in Christ and not in man. what part of filthy rags or none good no not one can't one understand. let us be known by Him and know Him.jimp

T
Tears_of_joy Jan 30, 2008

Brethren, the first message that I heard from brother Keith Daniel was this:

[b]Be Ye Holy For I am Holy[/b]
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=1864

Please take time and hear it.

T
tjservant Jan 30, 2008

This reminded me of one of the first J.C. Ryle tracts I read.

We Must Be Holy - J.C. Ryle

"We must he holy on earth before we die, if we desire to go to heaven after death. If we hope to dwell with God for ever in the life to come, we must endeavour to be like Him in the life that now is. We must not only admire holiness, and wish for holiness: we must be holy.

Holiness cannot justify and save us: holiness cannot cover our iniquities, make satisfaction for transgressions, pay our debts to God. Our best works are no better than filthy rags, when tried by the light of God's law. The righteousness which Jesus Christ brought in must be our only confidence,—the blood of atonement our only hope. All this is perfectly true, and yet we must be holy."

The entire work is [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=16496&forum=36&9]here[/url]

sermonindex Jan 30, 2008

Somebody made mention of avoiding the danger of extremes, and I agree with that statement.

Most in professing Christendom today, especially in America, live lukewarm, materialistic, selfish, indulgent, and must I say it, sinful lives, all the while professing Christ as their Lord and Savior. These same people attend steeple houses across the nation week after week to hear a false teacher tickle their itching ears and tell them that they can remain in their sins and inherit the Kingdom of God. There is little to no mention of true repentance, brokeness and godly sorrow, forsaking ALL, denying self, taking up the Cross, faith and trust in CHRIST ALONE, walking in the Spirit, etc. They turn the grace of God into lasciviousness, and they are bastardizing the word of God, sons of perdition many of them are, laying fast asleep on the beds of their self-delusion until the Day when Christ the Holy One shall wake them up for the great Judgment by the trump of the Archangel to execute His wrath on their rebellious souls. Scripture clearly says it is the will of God for our sanctification, and that without holiness no man shall see the Lord. It says that whoever is born of God does not commit sin (as a willful act and continuous practice) and walks in obedience to Christ's commands.

But at the same time, many modern day Pharisees and religious hypocrites who know not the grace of God are exalting the works of human flesh and committing the same sin of pride that Lucifer did, "I will be like the Most High", claiming to be as sinless and holy as the Perfect God of Heaven, and pronouncing forth the unrighteous judgment of religious condemnation on all those who aren't deluded like they are into believing their sinful natures are completely eradicated. It is heresy according to the word of God to believe you are sinless, exactly like Christ in sinlessness.

Jesus commanded us to be perfect, like His Father. But read it in context, the perfection He is talking about isn't sinless perfection (that would contradict Rom 7 and 1 Joh 1:8). The perfection He is talking about is a perfection of heart-motive, and walking in the type of love that blesses those who curse you and does good to those who do evil to you. According to that, if you truly love your enemies, and will for their highest good, having a heart that is right in the sight of God, then He accredits it to you for perfection; perfection in His teachings, maturity and godliness, a true child of God. Love is the bond of perfection, but it doesn't result in sinlessness, for the same love covers a multitude of sins, the scripture says.

I am so utterly tired of hearing men and men's works exalted. Where is CHRIST in all this? Where? He is our wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, and perfection!

Hebrews talks about entering God's rest. It says that he who enters God's rest ceases from his own works, a perpetual and blessed Sabbath, no more striving in the flesh to obey God, or counting in our fallen flesh to find the holiness God requires. It is all in Christ, and by ceasing from our own works and letting Christ live in and through us. The flesh is still there, the law of sin that dwells in the flesh is there too, but we must take up the cross, and crucify the flesh, and walk in the Spirit. And bless God, His salvation isn't partial...behold, the Word declares a mystery; we shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed, given glorified bodies, made like unto Christ at His coming! But till then, we are far from sinless, and live in a fallen body subject to the curse of a fallen world.

M
MikeH Jan 30, 2008

Josef_Urban published

HOLINESS: THE FALSE AND THE TRUE
By Harry A. Ironside (1876-1951)
A true testimony to:

[color=009900]1Co 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:[/color]

and

[color=009900]Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?[/color]

Kind regards
Mike

B
BVO Jan 30, 2008

Josef,
I started reading the article yesterday and even printed it off to take stabs at it during the day, but never got to it. I think your understanding and stating of "both extremes" is fantastic. Through my Christian life, I have been guilty of spirtual ping pong. I believe many lean hard toward the Holiness camp as a reaction to the laciviousness as grace camp's sinfullness. We were saved at and became a part of a Quaker (Friends) church and I saw the same thing in their history. They threw out so much good because of the abuses and ended up with some bad as a result. If we can focus on Jesus though, He will keep us centered. An analogy that comes to mind is that of a farmer plowing. The farmer picks a point across the field to aim toward to help keep straight. He may be a bad driver (back and forth) or there may be unexpected obstacles (rocks), but as long as he focuses on the Fixed point at the destination his row will be overall straight. I hear so much about balancing grace and law in our lives and that ends up easily becoming a focus and leading to it's own problems. We mustn't take our eyes off of the goal which is Christ Jesus. Thank you for your insights and challenges! Love in Christ, Barry

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