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Spitfire Feb 2, 2008

Let's do a headcount in answer to this question: Who here on SI feels that they have been delivered from the Spirit of Religion in the past 4 years? Please don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to prove that the word I gave is "true". I'm just curious to know how many of us really feel this way.


[i]quote by Spitfire in another thread:[/i]
As I prayed concerning all these things, God spoke to my heart again. He told me, "I've already issued the orders--the reign of the spirit of religion over my Church in America has come to an end." The decree has gone forth to let God's people go that they may worship and serve him....'

[i]Quote by Dorcas in same thread:[/i]
I wonder whether the gathering number of saints here, who are being or have been released from their previous religious thinking, are proof that this word is from God?

[i]quote by SimpleLiving in same thread[/i]
I cannot say if its proof that this word is from God or not, but I can tell you that I was in that number. I was very recently broken free from this very spirit of religion. As a matter of fact, if you check my past posts, you will see that I walked through it right here for everyone to witness.

Now, there's a sense of urgency in my spirit that God is gathering His children unto Himself. Those who will, as the title of this thread states, wake up and put aside everything of themselves and the things of this world. Now is the time of preparation and those who are not grounded in the Word, abiding in His presence, or able to hear His voice whispering in the midst of a storm, are going to have a very difficult times in what lies ahead.


Please add your name to the list below if you feel that this applies to you as well. Thanks, Dian.


1. SimpleLiving
2. Spitfire
3.

sermonindex Feb 2, 2008

Does it have to be within the past 4 years? For me it was before that.

Although there are aspects maybe that I'm not yet totally free from...?

Jeannette

sermonindex Feb 2, 2008

It will be going on 5 years since the LORD told me to get out of the church that I was attending. I haven't heard anymore direction to go back to any church, though I have asked many times. But for me to say that I have been completely delivered from the spirit of religion, only God can answer that, it would be arrogance on my part to say that I am.

B
BVO Feb 3, 2008

I believe there is a shaking of confidences that God has been doing. 4-5 years ago I would stand in front of a adult sunday school class and teach and by the end either I would have an arguement, blank looks or both. We left the church 3-4 years ago (?) and have tried different churches since and have not been satisfied but rather felt that we had been protected by much with our children by being separate. Just the last year or so there have been people that I have said many of the same things that drew blank looks and now reeive agreement. Some people have even admitted that they thought we were out in left field before but sheepishly agree with us now. I have not changed much in content or presentation, but God is changing peoples hearts to hear. The beautiful thing is that God recently gave us a church family that we had tried before a couple of times, but God made the necessary arrangements for us to be knit together with this body.
In answer to the question, I have cast off the accepted beliefs of much of the western church and have become bonded with a smaller more sincerely Christ honoring group of believers not limited to our local body. I feel maybe like the one Jesus said "you are not far from the kingdom." He is about to shake all that can be shaken and that includes all of our petty personal bias'. Thanks and Love in Christ, Barry

C
crsschk Feb 3, 2008

[i]quote by Spitfire in another thread:[/i]
As I prayed concerning all these things, God spoke to my heart again. He told me, "I've already issued the orders--the reign of the spirit of religion over my Church in America has come to an end." The decree has gone forth to let God's people go that they may worship and serve him....'

Oh .... This pains me to say but it just is not so. Yet another prophetic utterance that is supposedly spoken by His own ...decree? 'Orders'?I'm sorry, you are a precious sister Dian but it is just not so.

The Lord has not said this, it hasn't come to an end, if anything the opposite is true, it is spreading and growing worse, what is the essence of the spirit of religion but what we see all around?

2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Prosperity gospels, cheap grace, easy-believism, forms and fakery's ...[i]pretense[/i], it's on the rise not the decline. Even the reports of how all this is being imported out into other countries, Africa comes to mind ...

Personally or better anyone that travels these corridors very long will have this spirit of religion stripped from their very core if they are even half honest. But that which you have stated flies in contradiction to scripture itself. The trend is downward I am afraid, the love of many will grow cold ...

[i]This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;[/i]

2Ti 3:1-4

L
Lor_E Feb 3, 2008

I have been being delivered from a "spirit of religion" for quite a few years now, I think it may be an ongoing deliverance... although I believe God opened my eyes to what I term as "Pharisee-ism" at least 5 years ago. Yet, every time I read Matthew 23 I can't but be heartbroken by the fact that so many seem to fit so well into that trap the Pharisee was under of a religious spirit.

I do believe that it is God's will that we all be "delivered" from such a spirit; and that the Spirit of God has been speaking to His church down through the ages regarding it, as I believe He has been doing so in this age as well. Yet, even with our eyes being opened, our hearts being convicted it is very easy to fall back into the old habit of feeling justified in doing something other than being washed in the blood of Christ. Praise be to God though, who always gives us victory, that when we desire to be simple and true He leads us into those paths!!

A sister in Christ

sermonindex Feb 3, 2008

Hi Mike,

Please... let me put a more corporate perspective on this?

I think you have missed an important detail, namely, that Dian was quoting from a (significantly) longer word which gave other angles to God's perspective on the whole; which word in full has been posted on SI, twice already, and shared with our brother Daryl in particular (at the time of the thread 'To all the Prophets').

I would like to aver, from the distance that I have - being a strong believer in the 'body ministry' aspect of SI in small, and the Church in large - that the claim it makes for those who do [i]not[/i] wish to fall away with the rest of the apostate church, is being confirmed by dreams such as provoked Carter Conlon to preach 'Beware of the Angry Watchmen'.

From his vantage point - if can call it that - he has also said (prior to the Angry Watchmen sermon - although I might have to do a lot of listening to find the exact one,) that he believes God [i][b]is[/i][/b] [u]calling out individuals and strengthening them in isolation[/u], as part of His plan to save to Himself a people (in America).

Further, it is not a stretch to claim that this (whole) word from Dian is completely in line with the spirit of what Sermonindex experiences, in that you yourself, Krispy, reformer, poet - others whose names I can't remember - have all given a similar testimony to Dian's, of varying degrees of awakening, rising up and leaving ... responding to the call of God in your hearts, just as in

[i][color=6633FF]For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone; the flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land; the fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell.

Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.

O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock, in the secret places of the stairs, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely.

Take us the foxes, the little foxes, that spoil the vines: for our vines have tender grapes. My beloved is mine, and I am his: he feedeth among the lilies. Until the day break, and the shadows flee away, turn, my beloved ...

Song of Solomon 2:11 - 16[/i][/color]

and

[color=0000FF][i] For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), finding out what is acceptable to the Lord...

Therefore He says:
"Awake, you who sleep,
Arise from the dead,
And Christ will give you light."

See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

Ephesians 5:8 - 10, 14 - 16[/i][/color]

Truly, I believe God is backing up His word with real people really being freed from bondages which have their roots in false gospels of various kinds.


Over the last few weeks, there have been big strong undercurrents, for the first time (in my awareness) dragging at the strongest bonds some of us have with each other. I try to be quick to close rank. But I recognise this may not be apparent. And it shouldn't mean the issues arising between us are being swept under the cybercarpet - which is fairly tempting at times - or not being allowed to do their work in us - which takes 3D real-time.

The matter of various kinds of relationships, though, is quite different from the ministries of the members of the body - to each other (Eph 4:16). While we have natural friends and natural relatives, our role in the body may [i]not[/i] touch on our relationships with either of these natural groups. (Perhaps this is obvious once it's pointed out.) But, for the sake of our [i]spiritual[/i] health, we do have to work at keeping the parts of the body in rest with each other. Something about knowing who is weeping and why, and who is rejoicing and why, and joining meaningfully in their situation.


In this thread, especially after the dreams you shared yesterday, I see that God has given you a similar kind of insight to Diane's (roadsign). Perhaps this is partly a result of similar experiences you have had; while - I can't quite explain - it's as if Dian's (Spitfire) has to [i]become[/i] the message [i]itself[/i] in a peculiar way. (I don't know if this is making sense on the page, but I perceive that how you all see things, comes out differently when you express it. Perhaps this is [i]my[/i] contribution...) Yet, some would say all of you are being 'prophetic'. To those (in Christ) who are not given this gift of [i]expression[/i], nevertheless the 'word' often comes as a confirmation to something they recognised, but couldn't put into words for themselves, and are [u]not[/u] called to put into words for the church.

We are all living through the same [i]era[/i], but we can see that God has given a degree of differentiation to the understanding which individuals contribute to the whole, and this may be partly a result of their individual unravelings of past misunderstandings, or, it may be a straightforward gift of the Spirit to see things that 'are', which others do not.

What to do with that insight, for the edification of the local church, or the whole Church, can be challenging for the individual, depending on the opportunities available to them. For instance, an elder like Carter Conlon can turn it into a sermon. Whereas another without that opportunity, might share it through prayer, but (either way), by the gift, God's intention is to strengthen [i]the whole[/i].


And then, we have Sermonindex, which has become such a [u]life[/u]-force for many.


Amen.


sermonindex Feb 3, 2008

quote by Spitfire in another thread:
As I prayed concerning all these things, God spoke to my heart again. He told me, "I've already issued the orders--the reign of the spirit of religion over my Church in America has come to an end." The decree has gone forth to let God's people go that they may worship and serve him....'
This is surely speaking of the [i]true[/i] Church only. If you tie this in with Revelation 18 it makes perfect sense scripturally...

[color=990000]And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, [b]Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues[/b].[/color]

Surely in these days the Lord is calling His own, those who are of the true Church, the Bride, out from among the false, "Harlot" Church.

We are being, one by one, called out and delivered from the spirit of mere religion, (even while we remain among the outward forms of that which is called "church"); made strong in Him to stand in the coming evil days.

And not only in America.

The Lord is preparing for the final harvest, and part of that preparation has to be the separation of tares from wheat, and the winnowing of the good grain to free it from the husks.

Surely this is what was meant by the above quote? Whether it is to be considered prophecy as such, or not, this [i]is[/i] what is happening: The Lord is calling His own [i]to Himself[/i]. That must mean out of every tongue and tribe and people and nation, and [i]denomi[/i]nation! If we are called to gather together unto Him, that means we [i]have to[/i] be set free from all forms of denomonational and religious bondage.

Mike, I can't understand why you seem to have such a problem with this. Unless it's the mere mention of the word "prophecy" that sets you off!

As Dorcas said, (not the same words, but that I think was the meaning) true prophecy [i]only puts into words what one already knows in the Spirit[/i].

It must also always be confirmed by Scripture, of course, which is why I quoted Revelation. There's also Matthew 13:30, for example..

[color=990000]Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.[/color]


in Him


Jeannette

sermonindex Feb 3, 2008

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;


I do agree with these verses, as we do see this right before our eyes.

Those who belong to the Lord, regardless of what country they live, or what era they live or lived, have always been persecuted.

I think we are seeing many things today that let us know the return of the Lord is near, and the Ministry of the Holy Spirit within us is a witness to these things.

Why would there be a prophetic word for AMERICA, and not the rest of the world?

The Gospel of GRACE delivers from the bondage of religion, regardless of what that religion may be.

Grace is CALVARY..the Cross. Being crucified with Christ and raised a New Creation not only delivers on from religion, but from SIN.


He told me, "I've already issued the orders--the reign of the spirit of religion over my Church in America has come to an end."

The Church is the Body of Christ.... making up of believers all over the world.

The only thing that will break the spirit of religion over anyone is preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ crucified and risen.

Until then, no such prophesy can be fulfilled. Salvation is one soul at a time.

Katy

S
Spitfire Feb 3, 2008

Oh .... This pains me to say but it just is not so. Yet another prophetic utterance that is supposedly spoken by His own ...decree? 'Orders'?I'm sorry, you are a precious sister Dian but it is just not so.

He that has ears to hear, let him hear.

sermonindex Feb 3, 2008

He that has ears to hear, let him hear.

Spitfire, He who has ears, hears God through the Word of God.

Where is your scripture to back up what you are saying?

There are TWO examples God left us with.

1. The Spirit of RELIGION....Cain.

2. The Spirit of Obedience to the Cross established in Genesis 3:15....Abel and his sacrifice....BLOOD.

There is no other......and you will never see God delivering Cain from the spirit of religion.

God gave Cain a second chance to REPENT and do what was right...in God's Eyes....acknowledge he was a sinner, and putting his faith in the promised redeemer...as did Abel.

Do your ears HEAR this?

Katy

sermonindex Feb 3, 2008

Hi Katy,

You're coming in on a very long drawn out discussion in SI, of whether the people who God uses to speak to His true Church - part of the true Church themselves - can be believed or not.

In the other thread, where the whole of this word was posted recently at my request (it having been posted a long time before but I don't think Dian could find it again at the time)
you will find one of the mainstays of Dian's ministry is that scripture - God's statement of what He's going to do on the earth - is the basis of any modern reminder of His truth written there.

In this case - that of the call of God for His people to respond to the the movings of His Spirit today, and if necessary leave the company of those who are bent on 'religion' - there are many many verses that back this up as the fundamental heart of God towards mankind.

Probably the most obvious, are the first thoughts of Exodus 20:

[color=6633FF]Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [i]of any thing[/i] that [i]is[/i] in heaven above, or that [i]is[/i] in the earth beneath, or that [i]is[/i] in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [i]am[/i] a jealous God:... [/color]


We see in the second part of Romans 1 how it is that people arrive in idolatry - by denying what God has revealed of His invisible power and Godhead in creation - one variety of having a form of godliness but denying the power of thereof. Thus, I would turn you to one of the most clear declarations in the New Testament, to show how the concept of idolatry is relevant to the Church age:

[color=6633FF]1 Thessalonians 1
in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.
9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [i]even[/i] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come. [/color]


There is an idea amongst some Christians that 'old-time religion' was good old original pentecostal faith and power. It isn't. It is basic animist religion, worship of creatures, stars, planets, the sun - anything to do with creation, rather than God the Creator.


I can't answser on Dian's behalf, but, in an old thread called 'To all the Prophets' where she shared some of what she's been through in churches - through which the Lord has refined her (That's accepted.) - one of the very specific things I learned about 'a prophet' is that they feel a burden for the nation into which they have been born, to pray and intercede for it, as if the sin of the nation was, almost, their own sin. I don't have this ministry, but I know Dian does, and has been praying for America for [i]years[/i]. So have others, who would not necessarily feel called to [i]speak out[/i] what God shows to them. That's the difference really, [i]that she does[/i].

Therefore, when such an one has been praying for their nation and seeking God for answers, it is not unsurprising when He eventually communicates a response. It's not Dian's problem if others don't believe what she relays to them. Rather, it is up to any who doubt it, to seek God for themselves, in this age of the Holy Spirit, and to walk in the light God gives them.

I do believe that revelation from the Holy Spirit is being given to the Church today, (to this generation of believers), through the operation of His gifts (graces). One of the commonest mistakes in thinking (about gifts) which seems to crop up on SI (the only message board I frequent - Mike, please don't take this personally) is that those less familiar with a local church which allows the ministry of the gifts in its Sunday services (and all the other times a Christian is a Christian - ie 24\\7) is the expectation of the need for everyone to stop their lives and work out whether scripture backs up this or that 'word' (which may have come as a prophecy, a prayer, an exposition of scripture or however it came), rather than learn simply to hear what the [i]Spirit[/i] is saying, [u]and keep walking[/u] in Him. Because the Spirit may not be saying the same thing to everyone. (If this statement causes a problem because of how it reads, I can explain more in a later post.) Although, in this very specific case, this was a word to Americans - it is equally relevant to anyone around the world who is bound in sin - idolatry, atheism, political ideology or whatever else hides God from their understanding. Jesus Christ is still the only mediator between man and God.

Us, the readers, only need to know where we are with God, hear what [u]HE[/u] is saying to us personally, and obey Him. End of exercise.

[i]OOOOh[/i] if only it were that simple!


It isn't greatly helpful to shoot the messenger if God has given him ears to hear things He is bringing to their understanding because of their calling, and, not necessarily saying giving the same part of His word to everyone.

This is why Paul likened the church at Corinth to a body (1 Cor 12).


There is one last thing about 'prophets', which is that like pastors, teachers, evangelists and apostles, they are whole persons given to the Church to serve her (Eph 4:11) Therefore, while we as individuals do have a responsibility to listen for God's voice in the word which is given, to [i]begin[/i] from a stance that the word (of that prophet) is definitely not from God - unless they can prove otherwise - and to make this a basis on which to judge the person's contribution to their local body or the Church world-wide, is, perhaps, to take a huge swipe at what God may be trying to do on earth - if only we weren't so sure we're the only person who has the corner on truth.


There is also that last great commandment given by Christ in John 15 - to love one another - with which to contend in a very real way.


C
crsschk Feb 3, 2008

Dorcas,

It never fails for you to come along and just paste jelly over everything. Nonsense!

This is not personal, don't make it so.

The point, as it has been and continues to be with these prophetic utterances are emphatically, [i]so[/i] or [i]not so?[/i] Did [b]God[/b], say this or did He not?

He did not. Whatever else might be derived or wrangled or appealed to means nothing past that. Why are we to give this a free pass, whoever it is?

Chapter and verse.
The law and the testimony.
He who has a dream, tell the dream.

If it must be stated why this gets me so rilled up ... We are playing fast and loose with the God of all creation with these things and I am well fed up with it being brought in here as some kind of sport that either just goes by the wayside or gets defended without any real defense.

IF, IF these prophetic things, these statements are in fact, ipso facto, the Lords very words we ought to be paying every ounce of attention to them that they warrant. That is THE issue. The very trouble is that we already have well over a thousand pages in our own bibles and we would believe them less over against whatever free flows from our own lips.

The Lord does not speak like this anywhere in scripture and all of a sudden in the last 15-20 years He has changed His tone and begun to 'release' this, that and the other. Now we have those with the audacity to command God to do their bidding. Why is it that these utterances, these supposed statements of the Lord all sound the same but sound nothing like scripture? It is uncanny and unnerving that there is such a quick acceptance without equivocation. My sense is that because they sometimes come from our members, who we love, we fear appraising their words, their statements and the others out there speaking things they do not know are likewise to go unchallenged in like manner. That is not love but cowardice. There is no scriptural backing to any of this, it's noise and confusion and audacity.

"The Lord is ______" Fill in the blank. What haven't we heard? Where is the proof?

We do not stop long enough to even recognize what it is we are doing speaking in the Lords stead. This is not turning out the Lords 'thoughts' into our own vernacular it's presumption.

And our response is to say nothing for fear of offending or worse, rushing to defend it all.

Check it. Test it. Prove it.

If we will not hold ourselves accountable to this Book ... My God, it defeats even the whole premise that was forwarded here, the '[i]spirit of religion[/i]' is what we will have in abundance if we continue to stray from the scriptures as so many have and continue to do. It is what has gotten Christianity into the mess it already is in.

Look at it will you? Look at the commotion. Entanglements with the world. Politics. Speculations and predicting under the guise of "prophecy". Legalism. Denominational-ism. Re-defining the bible. New Revelations. Charismatic extremities. Multi-millionaire preachers. Gay pastors. Divorced and divorcing 'leaders' of the [i]Church[/i]. The fear of God is 'dated' or even outdated. Prosperity gospels. Easy gospels. Grace is so abused and deformed as to turn [i]God forbid![/i] into God allows! Women overstepping their natural bounds. Men cowering under them. Extremes everywhere. Humanism and relativism, sanctimony-ism, patronizing universalism, ism's and schisms ... Abortion is tolerated, divorce is celebrated. Christ on a t-shirt, on a bumper sticker on a window decal. This age is plastic and phony, painted and everywhere tolerable to it's surroundings. Materialism is rampant, credit cards pushed to their maximums, over extended and deaf to eternal matters. Death looms large and hell opens it's mouth, but we have more important matters. Worse, all these things amongst [i]Christians[/i]. It wants nothing to do with pain or suffering or cross bearing, repentance, discipline or obedience ...

We have a sure word of prophecy already and if I had to stick my two worthless bits into the mix of it all I would say that which ails us is our lack of being just plain honest.

sermonindex Feb 3, 2008

Dorcas, I would like to say I too have this gift.

I also know with this gift it is to re-iterate what is and has all ready been spoken.

I don't have dreams or visions, but rather deeper understanding of the truth.

You may or may not have noticed, I preach Christ Crucified, as did Paul who said, God forbid that I should preach anything else but Christ and Him Crucified.

I asked Dian to back up her comments or vision or dream with Scripture.....so that I can also be a good Berean and see if what she is telling us is of the truth as I too search the scriptures.

I too believe in the Gifts of the Spirit and KNOW that the TRUTH spoken in this generation is not any different then any other Generation.

Having nothing to do with earthly difficulties, as that has always been.

Do you see Paul Prophesying of the destruction of the Temple in 70AD, or any other News worthy events during that time? NO!

Anyone can look at today, and make any one of these claims about what may be ahead...that DOES NOT make one a Prophet, or have the Gift of Prophecy.

The Gift of Prophecy is the Testimony of Jesus Christ....PERIOD!!!!!

To say that God is going to deliver AMERICA from the spirit of religion in not truth.

Our conscience are purged with the Blood of Jesus Christ to serve the Living God. Apart from the Preaching of Calvary, there will be no deliverance of any kind. To Compromise the Cross, and the Son of God who died and rose again with a counterfeit message is false prophecy. The only thing that can DELIVER anyone from anything is Jesus Christ, and no one can come to the Father except through His Son. God is not waving a magic wand and delivering AMERICA from the bondage of religion. Jesus didn’t come to save NATIONS, but SOULS. He didn’t die on a cross for AMERICA, but for YOU and ME.

AND Jesus Didn’t die on a cross to deliver anyone from religion, but from SIN. He said YE must be Born Again. Born Again Christians DO NOT need to be delivered from the spirit of Religion. However sinners need to be delivered from the bondage of SIN. Anything else is a false Gospel, and any other message is a crossless gospel, having no power what so ever.....but sounds like just another form of religion!

We have all ready had two I know of making false prophecies here and admitted they were wrong... yet they were so convinced they were PROPHETS.


Katy

C
ccchhhrrriiisss Feb 3, 2008

Hello…

As a "pentecostal" believer, I have heard many sermons that warn against the "spirit of religion." Some are so repetitious and vibrant in their description of this term that one might believe that there was a demon walking around with the name "[i]Religion[/i]." Personally, I think that there is a poor choice of words when some believers speak against a “spirit of religion.” Religion? What is wrong with [i]religion[/i]? Do we even know the definition of such a word?

I have heard many preachers (particularly amongst fellow Pentecostals or from the Charismatic ministers) who repeatedly warn of a present day “spirit of religion” that has “infiltrated” many of America’s churches. The Pentecostals tend to use the word “religion” as if speaking of some modern institutional norms that are biased against the Pentecostal experiences. I have heard sermons against the “spirit of religion” where the speaker was actually assailing the attitude of those who do not agree with Pentecostal doctrines. On the other hand, many of the Charismatic preachers who speak against a “spirit of religion” seem to refer to anyone (including classical Pentecostals) who is cautious against acceptance or approval of modern devices being incorporated as new methods of evangelism, worship, advertisement, etc… In other words, it seems that those who preach against “religion” or a “religious attitude” are actually opposed to an unbridled conformity to a certain perceived-to-be-incorrect set of beliefs.

A modern Pentecostal might point to a member of a Baptist or holiness Church that is cautious against tongues as being in danger of a “spirit of religion” while the modern Charismatic might point to someone who is cautious against certain modern evangelistic attempts (like Christian rock concerts or evangelistic body builders) as having the “spirit of religion.” Is this the correct attitude or rhetoric that the Lord wants from us? Are we to ostracize those who do not agree with us in doctrine as having a “spirit of religion” (which almost reeks of pride or arrogance) when they simply do not agree with us in doctrine or methodology? Ironically, some seem to have almost created a “religion” out of being “anti-religious.”

What is “religion?” Is “religion” a [i]bad[/i] thing? The most commonly understood definition of “religion” today refers to [i]the service and worship of God or the supernatural[/i], especially [i]in regard to commitment, devotion or observation of faith[/i] (Merriam-Websters 2007 Collegiate). This seems to be a contrast to the defined “religion” that is preached against by some believers. In the M-W definition, each of us are religious – including those who preach against a “religious spirit.”

The Bible speaks of religion in James chapter 1. In verses 26-27, Paul wrote: “[i]If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.[/i]

“Pure” religion. This definition seems to refer to a term that is similar to the one defined by M-W. In other words, God WANTS us to be “religious” – in a sense that we are pure in our practice and devotion before God (without hypocrisy, misconduct or misapplication). I think that we might want to be a little clearer when we attack the “spirit of religion.” In fact, we might not even want to use the term – because it might carry a misunderstanding amongst outsiders. I have heard preachers proclaim the dangers of “religion” to crowds who correctly see the preachers themselves as being “religious.” I have noticed firsthand the confusion that can come from such rhetoric. Perhaps it would have been better to speak against religious [u]traditions[/u] that are practiced with glaring hypocrisy or are not fully grounded on God’s Word.

:-)

By the way, I agree that there are individuals who are trapped into religious devotion simply because of [i]tradition[/i]. There are individuals who were born into a particular denomination and follow the rules, guidelines and terms of the denomination or sect with powerful devotion -- yet not truly knowing (or sometimes, even caring to know) the Biblical foundation (or absence thereof) for such practice. In other words, they practice [i]religion[/i] without having a true relationship with Christ. Is this a "spirit of religion" -- or a spirit of ignorance and service to "the Unknown God" (Acts 17:22)? We might want to clarify our words so that they are not misunderstood by those unfamiliar with our religious rhetoric and clichés.

S
Spitfire Feb 3, 2008

To say that God is going to deliver AMERICA from the spirit of religion in not truth.

I did not say God is going to deliver America from the spirit of religion. I said he is delivering His Church in America from the spirit of religion. The rest of America will dig into their foxholes of religion and fight like the devil (and for the devil) against the true Church. So, it may appear that there is no deliverance from this strong ruler of wickedness, but the determination and overcoming fortitude of the saints will show otherwise.

Mike, I've come up against your kind before. It has often made me shrink back into my self-pity cave and loose hope, but not anymore. I've had it with the intimidation of the spirit of the devil. I will not keep silent. I will continue to declare with my mouth what I hear God saying to me to declare. You can follow me up with, "it isn't true. Don't listen to her." That's fine. You can delete my profile if you like. That's fine. You da man. Who's gonna delete your profile?

C
ccchhhrrriiisss Feb 3, 2008

Mike, I've come up against your kind before. It has often made me shrink back into my self-pity cave and loose hope, but not anymore. I've had it with the intimidation of the spirit of the devil. I will not keep silent. I will continue to declare with my mouth what I hear God saying to me to declare. You can follow me up with, "it isn't true. Don't listen to her." That's fine. You can delete my profile if you like. That's fine. You da man. Who's gonna delete your profile?
Sister, is this necessary? Wow! I can't speak for Mike (an authority here at SermonIndex), but do you see the problem here? I'm sure your comments might be a reflex reaction to fight back from what you assume to be a personal attack, but don't you see the pride in such a reaction? I don't think that Mike was attacking [u]you[/u], but what he felt to be incorrect wording.

Your strong feelings may (or may not) be justifiable, but are these sort of comments needed? Don't you know that there are unbelievers who use the Internet to search for truth? What type of example does this set?

Perhaps you might consider removing some of this rhetoric from your post?

:-(

sermonindex Feb 3, 2008

I said he is delivering His Church in America from the spirit of religion.

Who is His church in America that needs to be delivered from the spirit of religion?

You mean those who adhere to the Word of God, and refuse to follow those with modern day tongues speaking this or that not in the Word. Is that who America is going to be delivered from?

The Church, His Body is a Spiritual Organism, and needs no deliverance from Religion in the first place.

But what on earth does that have to do with America anymore then anywhere else? Is God a respecter of Persons? Hardly!

However, I do see those who want to prophecy new and different things do need to be delivered from the TRUE Body of Christ.

The Church in America and all around the world .....We are waiting for our blessed Hope as we speak.

SOOOOOOO,
What Church in America are you referring to?

The Catholic Church?
The Scientologists?
The Mormons?
The JW's
and many more......Will God deliver these as well from their spirit of Religion.

What CHURCH are you referring to?
Katy

H
hmmhmm Feb 3, 2008

"God left America years ago, we have multi million dollar conferences and nothing happens"

Ravenhill

sermonindex Feb 3, 2008

"God left America years ago, we have multi million dollar conferences and nothing happens"


That's why I'm so greatful my citizenship is in Heaven.

However He was here in the 70's, :-P saved my soul, and delivered me out of this present evil age into the Kingdom of His Dear Son.

Katy

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