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Sex equals marriage?

B
bedowin Feb 4, 2008

I have been married to my Godly husband for more than 13 years now. He is full of wisdom and insight. But he was revealing to me last night how he believes because 2 years before we were seeing each other that he had sex with another single believer and that would make him a husband of two wives. This is why he believes he can never be an elder or leader in the church. Believe me when I say that he repented, went to leadership and was completely restore to the Lord before we ever dated. He repented and we had a pure relationship before we were married. I felt stunned that he would see that because he sinned sexually that he considers himself married.

Please help me to see how he is either right on biblically or how I can help him see how scripture does not support this.

I have heard many good things about this forum and know most are very conservative, so I really value your scripturally based opinion on this subject.

Thanks and sorry if this was posted twice... I think I lost it the first time but maybe I didn't. I'm still learning the forum ropes here.

E
enid Feb 4, 2008

First, welcome to the website.

Next, I don't know if your question is appropriate for the website. Time will tell.

Besides, it is a private matter between your husband and yourself. I don't think a public forum is the place to discuss your marriage.

Another thing is, where did he get this idea from? Which scripture has he based the idea on that since he has been with that woman before he married you, she is his 'wife'?

If a prostitue were to get married after years of being involved in that lifestyle, would all the men she had been with in that time, would they be her 'husbands'?

John 4v17, 'The woman answered and said, "I have no husband." Jesus said to her, "You have well said, 'I have no husband.'

vs18, 'for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband, in that you spoke truly.

For me, this just seems like a guilt trip that your husband is on, nothing more.

There are many other scriptures I could use, but really, regardless of scripture, it might or might not help his guilt.

God bless.

B
bedowin Feb 4, 2008

The reason I took this question to this website is because we are a strong couple, and it's not a divisive factor in our marriage... it's really an issue of a Biblical understanding of the issue. I could have phrased it less personal and said a friend argues that having sex is the same as marriage. What do you all believe? But I wanted you to understand that this does not come from someone who is fearful of making a true committment. He is very loyal and committed... but honestly believes that sex was marriage. I have looked up some scriptures as does he and apparently there are others who have argued this case. It seems so strange to me.

S
SimpleLiving Feb 4, 2008

Welcome to SermonIndex, bedowin. I hope you will be blessed by your time spent here.

I can't advise you of your situation, except to say that, as a Godly couple, keep the matter in prayer. It may be that the Holy Spirit is bringing your husband to true repentance of the matter. With true repentance, guilt is removed.

If the matter is more concerning to him, I would seek the council of your church elders.

sermonindex Feb 4, 2008

Fornication is just that... fornication. Scripture makes reference to joining together with a prostitute... but it certainly is not equating that with becoming "one flesh" in marriage, which truly is a spiritual action more than a flesh action.

Your husband needs to forgive himself, and move on.

Krispy

sermonindex Feb 4, 2008

Besides, it is a private matter between your husband and yourself. I don't think a public forum is the place to discuss your marriage.
This is a perfect place to discuss your marriage, thanks for opening up to us regarding a subject that can be quite disheartening. The only part of the bible that comes to mind regarding your situation is in Ezra 10. Men who had married women that were not of the children of Israel, they had to let them go or be expelled from the commonwealth of Israel.

Your husband needs to see that you are Israel (so to speak) and that this woman from his past is the strange wife that he has to let go of or miss out on all the blessings that being apart of Israel (you) will bring to him.

Please read the chapter and see if the LORD will minister to you in it.

M
Miccah Feb 4, 2008

bedowin wrote:

Please help me to see how he is either right on biblically or how I can help him see how scripture does not support this.


Welcome to SI bedowin :-)

The first thing that came to mind was the forgiveness of sin. Moses, David, Paul... all had sins. Some was murder, some adulterer, some was being a lier. The Lord has forgiven your husband.

As Krisppy wrote, it is now time for your husband to accept his forgiveness on this situation and move forward without hesitation. He has confessed his sin, he has repented from it and as David wrote in Psalm 6

Psalm 6 (NKJV)

O LORD, do not rebuke me in Your anger,
Nor chasten me in Your hot displeasure.
Have mercy on me, O LORD, for I am weak;
O LORD, heal me, for my bones are troubled.
My soul also is greatly troubled;
But You, O LORD—how long?

Return, O LORD, deliver me!
Oh, save me for Your mercies’ sake!
For in death there is no remembrance of You;
In the grave who will give You thanks?

I am weary with my groaning;
All night I make my bed swim;
I drench my couch with my tears.
My eye wastes away because of grief;
It grows old because of all my enemies.

Depart from me, all you workers of iniquity;
[b]For the LORD has heard the voice of my weeping.
The LORD has heard my supplication;
The LORD will receive my prayer.[/b]

Let all my enemies be ashamed and greatly troubled;
Let them turn back and be ashamed suddenly.


The Lord is good. We are not. He knows this and has forgiven your husband for his past...as long as your husband has repented.

Many blessings to you and your family.

G
ginnyrose Feb 4, 2008

Your husband needs to forgive himself, and move on.

Amen.

I do not find any reference in the NT that would imply this although this idea is implied under the OT law. Jesus never repeated it nor did any of the apostles in their writings.

Another poster suggested he confer with an elder..I think this 'might' be a good idea IF the fellow loves the LORD and is versed in the scriptures.

Apparently your DH has problems forgiving himself? This can happen when your sin is so great: "How could I have been so dumb?" or whatever...

Hope your DH will find peace concerning this issue.

Blessings,
ginnyrose

D
davidt Feb 4, 2008

[b]1.[/b] I have thought much over this subject before. I have surveyed the scriptures over it. It is true that it is fornication and not marriage though close in a sense. It says in Thessalonians that we are not to defraud our brother in this manner:

1Th 4:6 that no one transgress and wrong his brother in this matter, because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as we told you beforehand and solemnly warned you.

It also says in the Law:

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 "If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days.

So it is under the Law that they are to marry but it does not say that that is what made them married. Now the question comes up should the man marry the woman. Well I think many factors would come in to play. Under the law you would be killed for that act if it were adultery or the woman were betrothed just look at the context. A woman would not be able to be married if she were not a virgin so that would be very hard. It is not so in our culture. It is an evil thing-yes but would the Lord smite us-maybe but He is gracious. See this law is perfect and God does not always in this age nor then act immediately upon His law He is patient toward us and remembers that our frames are but dust. So if we fear Him and humble ourselves and repent He will have pity on us as a father pities his child. The question is how does this law apply to us. Peter spoke death to Ananias but Paul did not speak death to the immoral man in Corinth though he and the Church handed him over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. So I believe that yes it was a sin and he under the law should have married her. But the Lord is merciful toward such things I believe and if people slip up He will give second chances. Do 2 wrongs make a right? no. What if they did marry and it was not there calling? What if they did marry and they really didn't want to but were just so weak in the faith as babes.


[b]2.[/b] The question also arises, "can one remarry after divorce?". Well, I do believe they can if they lawfully divorced in the case of immorality as it says in the gospel account of Matthew:

Mat 5:32 But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery.

So he "makes" her or causes her because she will most likely have to remarry. It was much harder for a woman to be without a husband in the culture and she may also have not been granted grace to accept a calling of celibacy. So this implies that he does not cause her to commit adultery even though she remarries since it is lawful to remarry. If it is lawful to divorce then it is lawful to remarry.

One would argue that Paul say's in 1Corinthian's 7 that if you divorce then you should not remarry. I would agree but nowhere does he mention if you divorce lawfully. He says you "should not" divorce, but Jesus doesn't say you should not divorce in the case of immorality. So obviously this is something different.

1Co 7:10-11 To the married I give this charge (not I, but the Lord): the wife should not separate from her husband (but if she does, she should remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband), and the husband should not divorce his wife.


[b]3.[/b] I will also say that in the case of ministry and remarriage I know of a verse in Timothy:

1Ti 3:2 Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,

Does this mean that a minister could not have been married twice. Well I would think by my judgment that if he were widowed it would be okay. Or if for immorality. And I would also add things like severe abuse and the like. So, yes, I believe it is true from the bible that a minister can not unlawfully have 2 wives. But as we know in your case the first was not marriage.

It also says of a widow in Timothy that if the Church is to receive her she had to be the wife of one husband. but obviously what if she was widowed well then as Romans 7 says she will no longer be called an adulteress if she remarries if her husband is dead. So we learn from this example that we have to be careful in isolationally literalizing passages without interpreting them in light of the whole counsel of God.

1Ti 5:9 Let a widow be enrolled if she is not less than sixty years of age, having been the wife of one husband,

Rom 7:3 Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.

B
bedowin Feb 4, 2008

Wow! I am feeling like God totally led me to this group. My DH and I had a great morning at home discussing the implications of the situation and how he has come to the point that he believes he was indeed "married" before me.

To go more indepth because I feel like you guys get that we are aliens in this world, not of it, and we are called to seek God, not men, I will add that he was in this relationship for around 3 months and the two of them committed their ways to one another. This wasn't a public committment and what I told him was it was something of an emotional commitment made when they were not seeking God's will.

At any rate, he has spent countless years studying history (majored in it) and culturally speaking, many groups would say that he was married in the sight of God. He would argue that because he in essence gave an oath (foolishly) and consumated it, that he is indeed married to the first woman. He did not see it this way way back when but as he has had to grapple with the idea of teaching our children the reason you stay sexually pure, he has come to think that this relationship in the sight of God could be marriage.

Now, given the marriage, even though they went different ways, we got married and have 5 beautiful children and are walking with God, that he is spiritually married to 2. Since God does not recognize divorce outside of the 2 Biblical reasons mentioned, he is caught in the midst of feeling perhaps he is the husband of two wives. He is actually quite heartsick and feeling like he can do nothing to rectify this situation.

I know this is all very strange, and usually people just go on their merry way not worrying about the past, but my loyal, God seeking husband is really torn about the implications he has gathered from history and the Bible.

Once again, I thank you so much for carrying this burden with me... the burden of truth to find out how to hear God's heart on this.

B
bedowin Feb 4, 2008

Miccah, it is so awesome to see you quoting this verse because when my DH confessed this situation to me years ago, in the courtship process, I felt God gave this Psalm to him. I made a special date to talk about it and at that time he claimed it as God's word to him. It's so frustrating to see how things have gotten twisted in his mind...

M
Miccah Feb 6, 2008

bedowin wrote:



I know this is all very strange, and usually people just go on their merry way not worrying about the past, but my loyal, God seeking husband is really torn about the implications he has gathered from history and the Bible.

All throughout scripture you will see the Lord telling Isreal to repent, turn from their wickedness and return to Him. It pleases the Father to give us the kingdom, hom much more will it please Him if your husband would accept the free gift offered to himself. Your husband is no longer bound to the past, but it seems that he is in bondage of unforgiveness of past sins.

Please don't get me wrong, if the Lord is impressing this on him, then by all means he should be seeking truth. But if your husband is impressing this upon himself, it should be destroyed, since it is from the flesh and not of the spirit.

Once again, I thank you so much for carrying this burden with me... the burden of truth to find out how to hear God's heart on this.

I do not know, but by reading your postings so far, it seems that you take hold of Proverbs 31 and your husband takes hold of Psalm 127. Your doing right sister. Stay strong and continue to pray for your husband, blessed daughter of Jerusalem.

M
murdog Feb 6, 2008

Bedowin,

I believe your husband is basing his understanding of this issue on the scripture in 1 Corinthians 6 which says "Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said "the two will become one flesh."

Your husband needs to keep in mind one thing. Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. For John came to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and prostitues did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe."
Matthew 21:31

Did God change his mind about prostitution? No! Were the prostitutes made one flesh with their customers? Yes! How are they entering the kingdom of God? They repented and believed!

Jesus tells us there is only one unpardonable sin and that is the blaspheming of the Holy Spirit.

Continue to seek His face until His Spirit testifies with your spirit that you are born again.

Murray

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