Spurgeon, A.W.Pink on Sabbath

Just an observation here... but why dont people on here argue their points using scripture anymore? Everyone quotes Spurgeon, Pink, Pratney... etc... as tho their words were God breathed.

I love Spurgeon, but if something he said doesnt jive w/ scripture, I'll dump Spurgeon in a heartbeat.

This is the same type of mentality that got me caught up in the Charismatic/WOF movememnt when I was first saved. I listened to mens opinions about the Bible instead of studying to show myself approved. But then... I was newly saved and very immature in the faith.

Just wondering...

Krispy

But if you're going to come here and begin a discussion about following the law of the Sabbath, then you should do so with much scripural backing. I have no problem discussing what men have said about this or that (reference the recent discussions about Calvinism... which is ALL about man's opinions since Calvinism is not scriptural at all)... but I believe you have an agenda, which is to convince us all that we need to observe the Sabbath. When doing so, you should have more than "Charles Spurgeon said....".

Thats all I'm saying.

Do you keep the Sabbath? If so... which one? Saturday? Sunday? Do you allow for other believers to keep one day holy, and yet another believe to keep another day holy... as Paul did?

I'm not against a day of rest, and making that day a special day during the week in which you dedicate it totally to the Lord. My issue is when people make a law out of which day, which time of day, what you should or shouldnt do...

The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

Krispy

wildbranch/Sharon, why would you take that Sister's post and bring it here to display and answer, when she gave Scriptures that you left out of her post.

Spurgeon, Pink, and the poster who's post you partially quoted also believe in The Deity of Christ - you Don't.

I'm sorry that I do see that as a Main factor in ALL things - for "No other Foundation can be laid, But Christ" ... anything that you try to build unto a 'different' foundation will not stand before HIM - The Alpha and The Omega, the First and The Last.

How can you fault the poster you've quoted ?

Castigate - no. Sincere heart felt concern for one who is a member - yes.

I feel we should be concerned for each other. I'm into "each othering" as Chip Brogden and those teach. We should care. To care is not 'bating'. I posted Scriptures for your consideration because I still do feel that it is important to our souls to see Him rightly.

That was it and always has been.

Only The Word of God - both Christ Himself and His Word can "judge and condemn" - it is not something I can do.

Just a little FYI here. A Messianic Jew is not just Jewish believers, but a system of beliefs, representing both Jew and Gentile Believers.

Although I am a Born-Again Jew, I consider myself a COMPLETED Jew, because I am COMPLETE in Christ.

There are many things this Messianic System believes, and many you may be surprised. Some do not believe in the Deity of Jesus Christ.

Many do not believe in the complete Atonement at the Cross, but believe that won't be fulfilled until Jesus returns to earth. Wrong Answer! And because of these INCOMPLETE and inconsistencies we have the sabbath-keepers.

"Messianic Judaism" is the term used to define a system of belief and practice embraced by Jewish and non-Jewish people who believe in Messiah Yeshua (Jesus). Messianic Jews maintain a lifestyle and form of worship that identifies them with Jewish customs and traditions while believing that Yeshua (Jesus) of Nazareth is the promised Messiah of the Jewish Scriptures.

Messianic Judaism is part of the universal Body of Messiah, but Messianic believers claim the right to express themselves in a way that identifies with Jewish heritage and with the original Jewish context of belief in Yeshua.

However, reading Galatians, no such practices are taught by Paul.

Love in Christ
Katy

Sharon, actually I appreciate the fact that it was brought to light in this thread that you apparently question the diety of Christ. (at least thats what I have gotten out of this)

Thats important for me to know when discussing [b]anything[/b] with you because if we dont have Christ's diety in common... we have nothing in common... and therefore nothing to discuss.

At the beginning of this thread I did not know that piece of important information.

Krispy

wildbranch wrote:

One or two people stood up for the remembering of the 4th commandment, while others opposed it, even hinting that one might be 'fallen from grace' to engage in Sabbath keeping.

Who exactly do you think is against the keeping of the 4th commandment? I'm all [i]for[/i] it personally!

To say that someone who advocates keeping the [i]essential meaning[/i] of the 4th commandment is against that commandment is as ridiculous as saying that [i]Jesus[/i] opposed the Laws against murder or adultery, when He said that anyone who thinks or desires to commit the sin has already done it in his heart!

Keeping the true Sabbath is - as I said - far, far more (NOT LESS!) than keeping one day in seven.

I would just like to point out that Charles Spurgeon and A.W. Pink had a good understanding on the 4th commandment, and I do not believe that they were blind, or had any dishonest agenda:

[b]FROM CHARLES SPURGEON'S CATECHISM (WHAT IS TO BE TAUGHT TO CHILDREN):

49 Q Which is the fourth commandment?

A The fourth commandment is, Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor they cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

50 Q What is required in the fourth commandment?

A The fourth commandment requires the keeping holy to God such set times as he has appointed in his Word, expressly one whole day in seven, to be a holy Sabbath to himself (Le 19:30 De 5:12).

51 Q How is the Sabbath to be sanctified?

A The Sabbath is to be sanctified by a holy resting all that day, even from such worldly employments and recreations as are lawful on other days (Le 23:3), and spending the whole time in the public and private exercises of God's worship (Ps 92:1,2 Isa 58:13,14), except so much as is taken up in the works of necessity and mercy (Mt 12:11,12).[/b]

Quoting from a [i]children's[/i] catechism seems a little dishonest though. One wouldn't attempt to explain the subject any further to a child (ie in the light of the New Covenant).

For one thing, children need clear rules and boundaries, so any futher expolanation would only confuse. And if the child didn't yet know the Lord he wouldn't be [i]able[/i] to keep the Sabbath as it should be kept anyway - any more than an unsaved adult!

Maybe someone, who knows more of Spurgeon's writings than I do, can find out where he writes of the meaning behind the Sabbath law? I can't imagine such a great preacher could be ignorant of it.

As Paul said:
Galatians 3:23f
[color=990000]23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.[/color]

Also in Jeremiah 31 it speaks of the [i]law written on the heart[/i], rather than on tablets of stone.

"...the reason why people become Hyper-Calvinists and Antinomians, is because some, who profess to be Calvinists, often keep back part of the truth, and do not, as Paul did, "declare all the counsel of God"; they select certain parts of Scripture, where their own particular views are taught, and pass by other aspects of God's truth. Such preachers as John Newton, and in later times, your own Christmas Evans, were men who preached the whole truth of God; they kept back nothing that God has revealed; and, as the result of their preaching, Antinomianism could not find a foot-hold anywhere." (Charles Spurgeon, Gospel of Sovereign Grace).

"It is to be feared that some zealous brethren have preached the doctrine of justification by faith not only so boldly and so plainly, but also so baldly and so out of all connection with other truth, that they have led men into presumptuous confidences, and have appeared to lend their countenance to a species of Antinomianism very much to be dreaded. From a dead, fruitless, inoperative faith we may earnestly pray, "Good Lord, deliver us," yet may we be unconsciously, fostering it." (Charles Spurgeon, Faith and Regeneration)[/b]

I certainly get the impression you are in support of failing to keep "the whole counsel of God" through your extremely limited view on the meaning of the Sabbath.

But presumably the above quotes are [i]not[/i] meant to confess this!

So what do you mean?

they select certain parts of Scripture, where their own particular views are taught, and pass by other aspects of God's truth.

No doubt we all do this, however hard we try not to, but at least some of us are willing to face that possibility. For example, the danger of doing that is the main reason I'm not a Calvinist, [i]or[/i] an Arminian, and (while having opinions on the matter) don't commit myself re theories on the exact scenario of "the Last Days".

Can't you even consider the [i]possibility[/i] that there is more to the Sabbath than merely keeping one day in seven as a rest day? It certainly seems as if you, and some others here, are so locked into this aspect that you can't see anything else. ...Even to the extent of imagining that others of us oppose the 4th commandment because we speak of the wider, spiritual truth of it!

in Him

Jeannette

wildbranch wrote:
HeReigns,

Are you castigating me for quoting from a fellow-posters comments and then addressing that portion? I see that done over and over again on the message board, and yet you feel to address me...

As to the deity issue- Do you not recall that the moderators requested that the subject be closed? Why are you constantly baiting me to enter into the debate again? You have in the past judged and condemned me, and now you are again trying to convene a 'pre-judgement seat' here.

If you wish to continue addressing me on this subject, in a personal way, HeReigns, feel free to contact me via my e-mail. I will be more than happy to address all your concerns.

Sharon

Actually, Sharon I think Annie (HE_Reigns) was trying to "defend" me, because of the way she (rightly or wrongly) felt you dealt with my post!

It's the old mother sheep instinct (I have it too), concern for the lambs who are under attack or might be caused to stumble...

Your post didn't bother me in that way, although I did get frustrated because you apparently won't even [i]try[/i] to consider or understand what I was saying!

...Dear Annie, I'm a grown up lamb now, and don't really need you to rush to my defence (at least I think that was what you were doing) ;-)

Sharon, when you post your own agendas on this forum you can expect to be opposed, because you clearly don't want a discussion, just to push your own false teachings onto others.

Some of the things I [i]wanted[/i] to say to you were probably stronger than anything Annie wrote. But for the Lord's sake, and for the sake of those reading this, and for [i]your[/i] sake...

Blessings

Jeannette

I, however, feel confident because of His mercy and grace, and because of my High Priest and Advocate, Yeshua Ha Maschiach, to approach the day of judgement with every hope of being rewarded with eternal life. Thank you.

OK, you don't feel your forgiveness of sin was complete the moment you received Jesus Christ?

Sharon, why all the pretentiousness with this [u][b]Yeshua Ha Maschiach[/b][/u]stuff? do you think it gives you more power or authority or something ? I'm not impressed by it, and never was!!!! Sounds Harsh Huh! But I can see through all the pretentiousness a *void* of the true **Gospel**.No matter how many names you know God by.

There are many cults and sects calling themselves Messianic this or that using this language.

Sharon, who do you say Jesus Christ is? You replied back to Krispy with:

However, I rest assured in the knowledge that I stand accepted by the Most High God through the wonderful and glorious accomplishment of Yeshua, the Anointed One, the Son of the living God, and you will have to take up your case against me, with Him.

Is your Yeshua not God? You call Him *[u]The Atoned one[/u]*. That's rather new and different. Is He the atoned one, or the One who has atoned?

Katy

Katy-did wrote:

I, however, feel confident because of His mercy and grace, and because of my High Priest and Advocate, Yeshua Ha Maschiach, to approach the day of judgement with every hope of being rewarded with eternal life. Thank you.

...Sharon, why all the pretentiousness with this [u][b]Yeshua Ha Maschiach[/b][/u]stuff? do you think it gives you more power or authority or something ? I'm not impressed by it, and never was!!!! Sounds Harsh Huh! But I can see through all the pretentiousness a *void* of the true **Gospel**.No matter how many names you know God by.

Remember the sons of Sceva in Acts?

If you are a fluent Hebrew speaker you would naturally use Hebrew terms when speaking with other Hebrew speakers. Even if you were Jewish by descent, (like Katy) but not a Hebrew speaker, it would still be an affectation.

Sharon, who do you say Jesus Christ is?..

If you can't accept even basic truths where [i]are[/i] you going to be on the day of Judgement?

This is said out of concern, not to condemn.

Wake up! Before it's too late.

Jeannette

Katy-did,

Wildbranch said :

Quote. [color=0000ff]I, however, feel confident because of His mercy and grace, and because of my High Priest and Advocate, Yeshua Ha Maschiach, to approach the day of judgement with every hope of being rewarded with eternal life. Thank you.[/color] Unquote.

This sounds like a wonderful testimony and quite scriptural. Why would you want to attack this ? You are correct in saying this sounds very HARSH.

Your use of the terms "cults and sects" sounds rude and unnecessary.

Katy-did, you said:

Quote: [color=0000ff]Is your Yeshua not God? You call Him *The Atoned one*. That's rather new and different. Is He the atoned one, or the One who has atoned? [/color] Unquote.

On reading Wildbranch's post I don't see 'atoned' One, but rather 'Anointed' One. You know that there is a very distinct difference between 'atoned' and 'anointed' no doubt? You should probably get back to her on this, because if you have confused me, I can only imagine her horror and amazement. :-)

LOL ... i'd be laughing is this wasn't such a sad testimony and poor witnesss to someone who seems to be sincerely seeking.

Shalom,

Stephen

[color=00000][b] "O for a thousand tongues to sing my great Redeemers' praise" [/color][/b]