How to Handle Gossip, Slander and Discord

sermonindex Feb 12, 2008

I found this on a church's blog and even though it's only an outline...there is a lot of good stuff in it to think upon. This is a very serious sin that is wide-spread amongst churches in America - it is a problem. And ~~[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=15355&commentView=itemComments]~~Jeff Noblit[/url] has two excellent messages on Church Discipline that address this area and the actions that church leaders should take.

How to Handle Gossip, Slander and Discord: Part One
~~[url=http://www.gracefamilybaptist.net/GFBC_/Blog/Entries/2007/12/15_How_to_Handle_Gossip%2C_Slander_and_Discord%3A__Part_One.html]~~12/15/07[/url]

GFBC recently had the misfortune of walking through the valley of the shadow of discord. As a result, we have spent a great deal of time learning how to handle gossip and slander. In doing so, we became aware of the fact that most Christians know very little about dealing with these issues. Even our leaders learned a great deal in the process. In fact, there probably wasn’t a person in the church who left without grieving their own sin in this area. There have been so many requests for the outline of what we shared that we decided to provide it here.

Sewing discord is one of the most heinous sins in the Bible:

“There are six things that the LORD hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.”
(Proverbs 6:16-19 ESV)

Means and Methods of Sewing Discord

~~[b]~~I.Gossip[/b]

A.Definition: Casual or unconstrained reports about other people, typically involving details that are not true (Oxford English Dictionary).

B.yiquristh/ß (psithuristes): a whisperer

C.Clearly Identified as Sin:

“But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God” (Galatians 5:16-22
NAS95)

Romans 1:29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God’s decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

D.Warned Against:

“Whoever meddles in a quarrel not his own is like one who takes a passing dog by the ears. Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death is the man who deceives his neighbor and says, “I am only joking!” For lack of wood the fire goes out, and where there is no whisperer, quarreling ceases. As charcoal to hot embers and wood to fire, so is a quarrelsome man for kindling strife. The words of a whisperer are like delicious morsels; they go down into the inner parts of the body. Like the glaze covering an earthen vessel are fervent lips with an evil heart. Whoever hates disguises himself with his lips and harbors deceit in his heart; when he speaks graciously, believe him not, for there are seven abominations in his heart; though his hatred be covered with deception, his wickedness will be exposed in the assembly. Whoever digs a pit will fall into it, and a stone will come back on him who starts it rolling. A lying tongue hates its victims, and a flattering mouth works ruin.” (Proverbs 26:17-28 ESV)

“A dishonest man spreads strife, and a whisperer separates close friends.” (Proverbs 16:28 ESV)

“Besides that, they learn to be idlers, going about from house to house, and not only idlers, but also gossips and busybodies, saying what they should not.” (1 Timothy 5:13 ESV)

~~[b]~~II.Slander[/b]

A.Definition: A false and malicious spoken statement that may bring harm to the reputation of another (Oxford English Dictionary).

B.dusfhmi÷a (dusphemia); evil speaking, defamation.

C.Identified as Sin

“For I fear that perhaps when I come I may find you not as I wish, and that you may find me not as you wish—that perhaps there may be quarreling, jealousy, anger, hostility, slander, gossip, conceit, and disorder.” (2 Corinthians 12:20 ESV)

“So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander.” (1 Peter 2:1 ESV)

Psalms 15:1 O LORD, who shall sojourn in your tent? Who shall dwell on your holy hill? 2 He who walks blamelessly and does what is right and speaks truth in his heart; 3 who does not slander with his tongue and does no evil to his neighbor, nor takes up a reproach against his friend.

D.Warned Against

“He who goes about as a slanderer reveals secrets, Therefore do not associate with a gossip.” (Proverbs 20:19 NAS95)

Psalms 101:5 Whoever slanders his neighbor secretly I will destroy. Whoever has a haughty look and an arrogant heart I will not endure.

~~[b]~~III.Rules of Thumb[/b]

When dealing with information and communication, it is important to think through our actions in order to avoid gossip and slander. Thus, we have to ask ourselves whether or not we need to speak at all about what we know. Here are some simple rules to follow:

A.Is it Kind?

If what we have to say about a brother or sister is kind, then by all means we should say it. We should encourage, extol and praise one another often. However, if what we have to say about
another is unkind, we may be involved in slander.

B.Is it True?

We must never share anything if we are not certain about its veracity. However, some things may not be kind but they are true, nonetheless. In most cases, they still should not be shared. The fact that something is true does not automatically mean it should be shared.

C.Is it Necessary?

Sometimes we must share things that are unkind (but true). For instance, if a brother is engaged in destructive, sinful behavior, and I have confronted the issue to no avail, I may have to share it with another in order to escalate the confrontation and get him help or call him to repentance.

~~[b]~~IV.General Unconstrained Speech[/b]

James 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell.* 7 For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by mankind, 8 but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. 9 With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God. 10 From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers,* these things ought not to be so. 11 Does a spring pour forth from the same opening both fresh and salt water? 12 Can a fig tree, my brothers, bear olives, or a grapevine produce figs? Neither can a salt pond yield fresh water.

sermonindex Feb 12, 2008

How to Handle Gossip, Slander and Discord: Part Two
~~[url=http://www.gracefamilybaptist.net/GFBC_/Blog/Entries/2007/12/22_How_to_Handle_Gossip%2C_Slander_and_Discord%3A__Part_Two.html]~~12/22/07[/url]

~~[b]~~How to Deal With Discord (Matthew 18)[/b]

““If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed* in heaven. Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”” (Matthew 18:15-20 ESV)

~~[b]~~I.Know the Difference Between Sin and Preference[/b]

“If your brother sins against you”

A.The Sin Must be Identifiable from Scripture (not opinion)

Poor Example: The Joneses allow their girls to wear sleeveless dresses in the summer. I believe sleeveless dresses are sinful. Therefore, I must confront the Joneses the next time I see their daughters in a sleeveless dress.

Good Example: The Jones boys were fighting in the bathroom. I told them to stop and they said, “Get a life, old man!” I am going to talk to their father about their rebellion, strife, and disrespect for their elders.

B.The Sin Must be Against YOU (i.e., you must be a ‘witness’ to the sin)!

Poor Example: Sally is really broken up over the way Harry has been treating her. I’m going to confront Harry about his sin.

Good Example: I saw Harry raise his voice at Sally and move toward her in a threatening way. I have to say something to him about what I saw. Or, Harry’s language was inappropriate when he and I talked yesterday. I’m going to call him and talk to him about his choice of words.

~~[b]~~II.Deal with Sin Brother to Brother[/b]

“go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone”

A.The Minute You Involve Another Party (in step one), you are in Sin (gossip/slander). This is very important and most people miss it. If your brother sins against you, you are not supposed to call another brother to talk with them about it. You must “go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone.”

B.The Minute Another Party Involves You (in step one), They are In Sin (gossip/slander) and You Must Confront it as Such

Poor Example: I heard the Hatfields and McCoys are in the midst of a big feud. I’m just telling you this so you can be praying for them.

Good Example: Unless you’ve seen this feud firsthand, you have just engaged in gossip. You need to stop this conversation, repent of your sin, confront the person who told you, then go to the Hatfields and McCoys and confess to them that you’ve been gossiping about them. I’ll give you three days to get this done before I intervene.

~~[b]~~III.Seek Restoration, not Vengeance[/b]

“If he listens to you, you have gained your brother”

A.The Goal is to Help Your Brother

B.Once Correction (true repentance) has Come, Leave it Alone. Don’t hold on to it so that you can use it again the next time your brother makes you mad... even if you have to forgive “seventy times seven.”

~~[b]~~IV.Only Involve Others When Your Efforts Have Failed[/b]

“But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church”

A.This is the Only Time Others are Involved

Poor Example: Mr. Jenkins was beating his wife so I confronted him about it. “I’m just telling you so you can be praying for him.” Or, “I know you sensed that something was going on and I don’t want your imagination to run wild.” THIS IS SIN!

Good Example: I confronted Mr. Jenkins about his treatment of his wife and he told me it was none of my business. I have to confront the issue again and I need someone to go with me and call him to repentance.

C.These Must be Mature Believers (Gal. 6:1)

D. A true believer should respond to loving rebuke. Anyone who does not is to be treated like an unbeliever until they bear the fruit of genuine repentance. “And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.” In the meantime, we must pray for their restoration and trust that the Lord will use the sting of lost fellowship to call them to himself.

~~[b]~~A Final Word of Warning[/b]

1Peter 4:12 Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing, as though some strange thing were happening to you; 13 but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing, so that also at the revelation of His glory you may rejoice with exultation. 14 If you are reviled for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. 15 Make sure that none of you suffers as a murderer, or thief, or evildoer, or a troublesome

sermonindex Feb 13, 2008

““If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone.

WHAT??

There's no fun in that. It's far better to talk behind his back and make sure that you have a dozen people on your side and understand that you've been hurt by this brother before going to make peace with him.

Of course thats not right, but thats EXACTLY what we do.

sermonindex Feb 13, 2008

Thank you Joy.

sermonindex Feb 13, 2008

Compliments wrote:
““If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone.
WHAT??
There's no fun in that. It's far better to talk behind his back and make sure that you have a dozen people on your side and understand that you've been hurt by this brother before going to make peace with him.
Of course thats not right, but thats EXACTLY what we do.

It certainly is the natural tendency of the flesh to do that. Which brings up the verses,

~~[i]~~"This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit." Galatians 5:16-17, 25[/i]

If we're walking in the Spirit we will not slander, gossip and sow discord amongst the brethren.

S

SimpleLiving Feb 14, 2008

~~[i]~~"Let your speech always be with grace."[/i] - Colossians 4:6

W

wallbuilder Feb 14, 2008

Here's a scenario: (How would people here handle this situation?)

Recently, at a prayer meeting, there was unity in the room as we praised the Lord and were seeking him, then the leader began praying for holiness in the church. That was good,...then he began to pray that "God would deal harshly with people who were 'resisting' the Holy Spirit, and that God would 'remove' them. The entire atmosphere changed and everyone got really quiet. One lady began crying she was so grieved over what he was praying. I sat down and stopped praying, being grieved.

After awhile I brought up the fact that I couldn't agree with his prayer, as it was unbiblical, that God loves people. I said, in my understanding of intercession, we are to pray for what people need, in this case, that people's eyes would be opened, and for mercy, not judgment.

Anyways, of course the leader brought up 'disunity' and 'discord'. The lady who was crying about this spoke up to this leader about legalism and the difference between holiness and perfectionism. I said that since this prayer was prayed publicly, (and was unbiblical) that was the reason I brought it up publicly. My concern was that the people in the room would think this was ok to pray this way. It's not. Jesus told us to 'bless' those who curse us, to pray for those that despitfully use us and mistreat us, not to pray for God to deal with them harshly and remove them.

Anyways, afterwards, the pastor said he thought it was ok and all good and affirmed this leaders prayer. What now? It's all very awkward. I don't want to subject myself to leadership like this. I have dear friends who attend this prayer meeting and are really struggling under this leadership because of the harshness. But when we try to say anything, we are told to 'deal with it' and to 'submit'. What a dilemma.

any ideas? of couse no one can really know the entire scenario, but any thoughts would be appreciated.

C

Compton Feb 14, 2008

Hi Wallbuilder,

If I had heard such a prayer from a leader, I might begin by asking him privately to define what 'resisting the Holy Spirit' is to him. This might help clarify whether this fellow is thinking of some well-founded concern over an outward sin (and is choosing to be discrete), or whether he is just being ye olde spiritual bully trying to control people inwardly.

It might be harder then we think to remain objective on this question.

A few years ago a friend of mine left our local church without saying much to anyone. When I called her to inquire as to the reason, she said she left in response to the pastor and offered me only a cryptic reason as to why. "It's fine and all to preach about grace, but you still need to live the life," she said. Letting the point go, we ended the conversation cordially. After hanging up, I made the mistake of putting my own meaning to her platitude...and assumed she was just being judgmental of some small behavior she didn't like in the pastor.

In other words, I put my own meaning to her rather veiled answer, not even realizing I was making an assumption.

6 months later, along with the entire congregation, I had to learn what she wouldn't say to me... that the pastor was in an unrepentant long term adulterous relationship with a lady in the church.

I relay this story only to advise you to try again to seek clarification from the leader in private. It may be that he knows of a particular unrepentant member's sin and is dealing with it the best way he knows how. While he would not be at liberty to disclose details and names, he could at least confirm whether or not he is responding to a real and valid concern. Such an understanding might relieve you from a misperception (and unnecessary resentment) that his earlier prayer was somehow a disturbing indication that he is becoming an abusive autocrat. He may just be a concerned leader (albeit inexperienced) who feels unable to be transparent about a legitimate problem he is facing within the congregation.

Blessings,

MC

W

wallbuilder Feb 14, 2008

Thanx MC

I appreciate the advice. It is a difficult situation that has been ongoing. It was good to read the article about this.

Even if people in the church have been 'resisting' the Holy Spirit (which they have) it is unbiblical to pray that God would deal harshly with them and remove them. Unfortunately, this leader has been kind of controlling with people. I won't go into all of it, but maybe myself and the other woman will talk to the pastor about this situation so this kind of thing doesn't keep happening. Thanx for the advice. Praise God-it's a chance for us all to grow now isn't it?

sermonindex Feb 14, 2008

Hello Wallbuilder,

The first thing that came to mind when I read your post was Keith Daniel's message on the Holy Spirit and he specifically addresses a situation similar to what you shared.

~~[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=5715&commentView=itemComments]~~The Holy Spirit, part 1[/url] - note there are two parts to the message and it is also in video format.

I pray the Lord gives you wisdom in this situation and that you are led by the Holy Spirit in your interactions with your church leaders.

C

crsschk Feb 15, 2008

A.Is it Kind?

If what we have to say about a brother or sister is kind, then by all means we should say it. We should encourage, extol and praise one another often. However, if what we have to say about
another is unkind, we may be involved in slander.

Have heard this put this way before and it's curious. Mean spirited, ill-willed ... an intent to injure for self gratification, envy, slander, gossip, discord, quarrels ... All these things understood completely.

'Is it kind?' though seems to do the opposite of it's intent far too often. That is, withholding things that need to be addressed because they are perceived as being 'unkind'.

So we halt at calling sin sin fearing being 'unkind'. Pride as pride. A haughty spirit as just mere circumstances. Gossip as information. Meddling as being helpful. Stirring up strife as righteous indignation. On and on. Few love to be corrected and take as first instance "What have I done wrong?" over "Is it I?"

Not to forget ... "And who are you to say?"

~~[i]~~Later on, Jesus found him in the temple and told him, "See, you have become well. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you."[/i] ~ Joh 5:14

This verse has for some reason been quite loud in my hearing for a number of days. Has me wondering what a collection of the threats of Jesus might look like ... collectively.

Maybe it is only to say is it 'kind' to stay silent for the sake of a false sense of unity and fellowship ... Maybe it's the ordering;

Is it True?
Is it Necessary?

Still can't fit it in there last. It must be the definition and that which it conjures up. A great kindness was shown me the other day, a kindly rebuke; ~~[i]~~"Ah ... you are right!"[/i] And it was so welcomed I had to set it right, straight away. What kindness it was! I think this generation, even many right here cannot stand to be stood down and must throw their emotions and personal effrontery, their offendeness into everything. Everything must then be turned to accusation and suspicion of ill-will and evil motivation ... ~~[i]~~unkind![/i]

We can hardly speak of humility without a contest. Bring something about authority as authority, as order, and watch out. Maybe the word ought to be not used at all except on the receiving end. Maybe it could be put differently;

Is it True?
Is it Necessary?
Is it full of venom?

S

SimpleLiving Feb 15, 2008

Mean spirited, ill-willed ... an intent to injure for self gratification, envy, slander, gossip, discord, quarrels ... All these things understood completely.
'Is it kind?' though seems to do the opposite of it's intent far too often. That is, withholding things that need to be addressed because they are perceived as being 'unkind'.

I agree. Political correctness has caused most everyone, including Christians, to be so careful about what they say, lest they "offend" someone or hurt their feelings. There are things that need to be said. There are times to be bold. There are even times to be angry. (Bearing in mind Ephesians 4:6a ~~[i]~~"Be ye angry, and sin not:"[/i])

Most of what needs to be said can be said kindly. I'm reminded of the great French statesman named Richelieu (1585-1642) who was known as a man of great courtesy. On one occasion, someone applied to him for a job, knowing that he would be turned down. Richelieu's manner of speech was so warm and accepting that it was worth having a request denied just to hear how graciously he expressed himself -- even when he said no.

We as Christians ought to be so sensitive to the needs, hurts, and disappointments of others that no unkind words come from our lips and no harsh tone is heard in our voices -- even when we find it necessary to be firm.

So we halt at calling sin sin fearing being 'unkind'. Pride as pride. A haughty spirit as just mere circumstances. Gossip as information. Meddling as being helpful. Stirring up strife as righteous indignation. On and on. Few love to be corrected and take as first instance "What have I done wrong?" over "Is it I?"
Not to forget ... "And who are you to say?"

Unfortunately, this thin-skinned form of political correctness has invaded the church. People will take you to court just for saying something they don't like! However, sin is sin and must be called so.

"Is it I?" is a question asked by mature Christians. Others play the blame game.

A great kindness was shown me the other day, a kindly rebuke; "Ah ... you are right!" And it was so welcomed I had to set it right, straight away. What kindness it was!

This ~~[i]~~really, really[/i] is a kindness isn't it?! It gives us an opportunity to make the necessary correction and repentance. If we don't receive it in this form of kindness, it will come back to us in a stronger way at another time, so yes, it ~~[i]~~is[/i] a kindness!

I think this generation, even many right here cannot stand to be stood down and must throw their emotions and personal effrontery, their offendeness into everything. Everything must then be turned to accusation and suspicion of ill-will and evil motivation ... unkind!

Sadly, this is true. And how unnecessary for it to be! I will never stop saying that our motives and attitudes are ~~[i]~~so very important[/i] to God! They matter - in everything!

I have learned something about debates. Don't take "de-bait." Very, ~~[i]~~very[/i] few people online debate properly or in a Christlike way. Sly cutting remarks said in a "friendly way" do not fool God. We shouldn't be stumbling blocks to each other.

We should always remember Romans 12:18, ~~[i]~~"If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men."[/i]

When it comes to posting in a debate, a mature Christian will use the ~~[i]~~Preview[/i] button to read their posts before submitting them. Check for tone of voice. Is there something written that may be taken differently than we intended? Is what's said necessary, kind, edifying, Christlike, etc.? Is it ~~[i]~~true[/i]?

A question I like to ask myself, especially regarding doctrine and scripture, is: "Is this just ~~[i]~~my[/i] opinion or have I prayed about this topic and heard from God about it?"

Some debates here begin with a phrase like: "I'm just asking what others think." I don't believe that's an honest remark because that's where the debate challenge begins. Debate has its place. It ~~[i]~~can[/i] be productive and enjoyable. But it should be conducted ~~[i]~~honestly[/i] and with integrity, and spoken in love.

Thankfully, we are all growing in this grace and being daily transformed into the image of Jesus! May the Father be glorified in all things!

sermonindex Feb 16, 2008

"Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee:~~[b]~~ rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee. [/b]
Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding." Proverbs 9:8-10

"He is in the way of life that keepeth instruction: but he that refuseth reproof erreth." Prov. 10:17

"The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise." Prov. 12:15

"But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and ~~[b]~~easy to be intreated[/b], full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace." James 3:17-18

"~~[b]~~Let the righteous smite me; it shall be a kindness: and let him reprove me; it shall be an excellent oil, which shall not break my head:[/b] for yet my prayer also shall be in their calamities." Psalm 141:5

~~[i]~~Let the righteous smite me, it shall be a kindness...[/i]

“We should be ready to welcome the rebuke of our heavenly Father, and also the reproof of our brethren. It shall not break my head, if it may but help to break my heart: we must show that we take it kindly. Those who slighted the word of God before, will be glad of it when in affliction, for that opens the ear to instruction. When the world is bitter, the word is sweet.” – Matthew Henry

“Debate thy cause with thy neighbour himself; and discover not a secret to another: Lest he that heareth it put thee to shame, and thine infamy turn not away. A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver. As an earring of gold, and an ornament of fine gold, so is a wise reprover upon an obedient ear.” Prov. 25:9-12

“He that goeth about as a talebearer revealeth secrets: therefore meddle not with him that flattereth with his lips.” Prov. 20:10

“Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour. Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD. Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.” Lev. 19:16, 17

“To be a tale-bearer, and to sow discord among neighbours, is as bad an office as a man can put himself into. We are to rebuke our neighbour in love, ver. #17. Rather rebuke him than hate him, for an injury done to thyself. We incur guilt by not reproving; it is hating our brother. We should say, I will do him the kindness to tell him of his faults. We are to put off all malice, and to put on brotherly love…” – Matthew Henry

“Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.” Luke 17:3

“Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.” Colossians 3:12-14

“Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.” Galatians 6:1

“He that covereth a transgression seeketh love; but he that repeateth a matter separateth very friends. A reproof entereth more into a wise man than an hundred stripes into a fool. An evil man seeketh only rebellion: therefore a cruel messenger shall be sent against him.” Prov. 17:9-11

“A froward man soweth strife: and a whisperer separateth chief friends.” Prov. 16:28

“Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.” Prov. 10:12

“He that speaketh truth sheweth forth righteousness: but a false witness deceit.” Prov 12:17

“An hypocrite with his mouth destroyeth his neighbour: but through knowledge shall the just be delivered.” Proverbs 11:9

That is but the very tip of the iceberg in exploring this topic in Scripture. And this ought to be our guide. I keep thinking of things I could say here...yet, do not the Scriptures speak for themselves? If we would but give greater attention to God's Word then we do to man's word...ah, wonder how different our conversations and interaction with one another would be. Obedience to this Book...that's what is needed.

All that to say, I count it a ~~[b]~~great[/b] kindness when the righteous rebuke me, it hurts, it's painful, it's humbling, but it's good, and it's love. And if I respond correctly to it, it will bring spiritual growth in my life. The difficulty for me is knowing when to give a rebuke to a brother or sister, that is hard. Yet, according to Scripture, there is responsibility to do this for one another.

Much to think about.

sermonindex Feb 26, 2008

Thought this fit in with the topic of slander, gossip and discord.

~~~~~~~~~

~~[b]~~Speak Evil Of No Man- Charles Spurgeon [/b]
November 29

Morning
“Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people ... Thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.”
- Lev_19:16, Lev_19:17

Tale-bearing emits a threefold poison; for it injures the teller, the hearer, and the person concerning whom the tale is told. Whether the report be true or false, we are by this precept of God’s Word forbidden to spread it. The reputations of the Lord’s people should be very precious in our sight, and we should count it shame to help the devil to dishonour the Church and the name of the Lord. Some tongues need a bridle rather than a spur. Many glory in pulling down their brethren, as if thereby they raised themselves. Noah’s wise sons cast a mantle over their father, and he who exposed him earned a fearful curse. We may ourselves one of these dark days need forbearance and silence from our brethren, let us render it cheerfully to those who require it now. Be this our family rule, and our personal bond-SPEAK EVIL OF NO MAN.

The Holy Spirit, however, permits us to censure sin, and prescribes the way in which we are to do it. It must be done by rebuking our brother to his face, not by railing behind his back. This course is manly, brotherly, Christlike, and under God’s blessing will be useful. Does the flesh shrink from it? Then we must lay the greater stress upon our conscience, and keep ourselves to the work, lest by suffering sin upon our friend we become ourselves partakers of it. Hundreds have been saved from gross sins by the timely, wise, affectionate warnings of faithful ministers and brethren. Our Lord Jesus has set us a gracious example of how to deal with erring friends in his warning given to Peter, the prayer with which he preceded it, and the gentle way in which he bore with Peter’s boastful denial that he needed such a caution.

S

SimpleLiving Feb 26, 2008

Be this our family rule, and our personal bond-SPEAK EVIL OF NO MAN.

I've lived by this guidance for a long time. It's served me well. I haven't always been successful, but when I haven't been, I've always been repentive.

T

TheophilusMD Feb 26, 2008

I am reminded of Carter Conlon's preaching about kindness last January 27, 2008. This one's highly recommended.

~~[url=http://downloads3.wrtbooks.com/16/SID16792.mp3]~~~~[b]~~Lifting Up Jesus in the Gates[/b][/url]

January 27, 2008 - It is time for the Church of Jesus Christ to bring honor to His name by manifesting the law of kindness. We, as a church, are called into moral and spiritual excellence through which God is glorified. The law of kindness radiates through the mouth of those who are one in heart and mind with Jesus and whose deep desire is to live a life that is conformed to the cross of Christ. When we speak with the law of kindness we take our Savior and put Him in the gates in a place of honor. Kind speech puts a crown of glory on Jesus and those around us have to take notice. What does your speech reveal to those around you?

W

wallbuilder Feb 26, 2008

I listened to this message by Keith Daniel-it was great, almost exactly what has been going on with this 'prayer leader' at church.

My pastors response to the prayer meeting (that I mentioned earlier) was to preach on submission to authority. This was his main point-and I quote, "To be under authority is more important than being in the will of God". Honest-he actually taught this. And his Scriptural points to back this up were,

-Jesus at the temple, at age 12, submitted to his parents and went with them, even though he wanted to stay at his Father's house (the temple).

-Jesus giving into his mother Mary, turning water into wine, even though it wasn't his time. To my pastor, this event equated submission to his mother (even though he was a grown man, 30 years old), even though he wasn't released to his ministry yet.

So if the church leadership starts selling indulgences again (the Catholic church) as in the dark ages, then according to my pastor we need to submit to their authority and not question what's being taught. (scary)

I guess Martin Luther was in sin when he came to the conclusion of "Sola Scriptura" -that is Scripture alone is the hightest authority, not men.

I'll see how this all pans out.

P

PreachParsly Feb 29, 2008

I thought this article would go good in this thread.
--------------------

Don't Argue
by Samuel Logan Brengle

"The servant a" the Lord must not strive (2 Tim. ii. 24).

In seeking to lead a holy, blameless life, I have been helped at one point by the advice of two men and the example of two others.

1. -- COMMISSIONER DOWDLE

Some years ago, in Boston, I attended an "all-night of prayer." It was a blessed time, and scores of people sought the blessing of a clean heart that night. The Scriptures were read, many prayers were offered, many songs were sung, many testimonies and exhortations were given; but of all the many excellent things said that night, there is only one I now remember: that burned itself into my memory never to be forgotten. Just before the meeting closed, Commissioner Dowdle, speaking to those who had been to the Penitent-form, said, "Remember, if you want to retain a clean heart, don't argue!"

There were twenty years of practical holiness behind that advice, and it fell on my ears like the voice of God.

2. -- PAUL OF TARSUS

In writing to young Timothy, the aged Apostle poured out his heart to one he loved as a son of the Gospel. He sought to fully instruct him in the truth, so that, on the one hand, Timothy might escape all the snares of the devil, and walk in holy triumph and fellowship with God, and thus save himself; and, on the other hand, be "throughly furnished" (2 Tim. iii. 17) to instruct and train other men, and to save them. Among other earnest words, these have deeply impressed me: "Of these things put them in remembrance ... that they strive not about words, to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers (2 Tim. ii. 14).

I take it that Paul means by this, that instead of arguing with people and so losing time, and maybe temper, we are to go right for their hearts, and do our best to win them for Christ, and get them converted and sanctified.

Again, he says: "But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves" (2 Tim. ii. 23-25).

Plainly, the Apostle thought this advice important for he repeats it in writing to Titus (iii. 9): "Avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law, for they are unprofitable and vain."

I am certain that Paul is right in this. It takes fire to kindle fire, and it takes love to kindle love. Cold logic will not make a man love Jesus, and it is only he that loveth that "is born of God" (I John iv. 17).

3. -- MARQUIS DE RENTY

We who have had the Gospel taught us in such simplicity and purity can scarcely realize the awful darkness through which some men have had to struggle, even in so-called Christian countries, to find the true light.

Some hundred years ago, among the luxurious and licentious nobility of France, and in the midst of the idolatrous forms and ceremonies of the Roman Catholic Church, the Marquis de Renty attained a purity of faith and a simplicity of life and character and a cloudless communion with God that greatly adorned the Gospel, and proved a blessing, not only to the people of his own community and age, but to many people of succeeding generations. His social position. his wealth and his great business ability led to his being associated with others in various enterprises of a secular and religious character, in all of which his faith and godly sincerity shone with remarkable luster.

In reading his life a few years ago, I was struck with his great humility, his sympathy for the poor and ignorant and his zealous, self-denying efforts to instruct and save them, his diligence and fervor in prayer and praise, and his constant hungering and thirsting after all the fullness of God. But what impressed me as much, or more, than all the rest was the way he avoided all argument of any nature, for fear he should grieve the Holy Spirit and quench the light in his soul. Whenever matters of a business or religious nature were being discussed, he carefully thought the subject over, and then expressed his views, and the reasons upon which he based them, clearly, fully and quietly, after which, however heated the discussion might become, he declined to be drawn into any further debate whatever. His quiet, peaceful manner, added to his clear statements, gave great force to his counsels. But whether his views were accepted or rejected, he always went to his opponents afterward and told them that, in expressing sentiments contrary to their own, he acted with no intention of opposing them personally, but simply that of declaring what seemed to him to be the truth.

In this he seems to me to have been closely patterned after "the meekness and gentleness of Christ" (2 Cor. x. 1), and his example has encouraged me to follow a like course, and so "keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace" (Eph. iv. 3), when otherwise I should have been led into wranglings and disputes which would have clouded my soul and destroyed my peace, even if the Holy Spirit were not utterly driven from my heart.

4. -- JESUS

The enemies of Jesus were constantly trying to entangle Him in His words, and involve Him in arguments, but He always turned the subject in such a way as to confound His ides and take every argument out of their mouths.

They came to Him one day (Matt. xxii.) and asked whether it was lawful to pay tribute to Caesar or not. Without any discussion whatever, He asked for a coin. He then asked whose image was on the coin.

"Caesar's," they replied.

"Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to God the things that are God's," said Jesus.

Again, they brought to Him a woman taken in adultery. His loving heart was touched with compassion for the poor sinner; but instead of arguing with her captors as to whether she should be stoned or not, He simply said, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her" (John viii. 7). And the whole crowd of hypocrites were so convicted and baffled by His simplicity, that they sneaked out one by one till the sinner was left alone with her Saviour.

And so, all through the Gospels, I fail to find Jesus engaged in argument, and His example is of infinite importance to us.

It is natural to the "carnal mind" to resent opposition. But we are to be "spiritually-minded." By nature we are proud of our persons and vain of our opinions, and we are ready to stoutly resist him who sets himself against either us or our principles. Our object at once is to subdue him -- by force of argument or force of arms, but by some means subdue him. We are impatient of contradiction, and are hasty in judging men's motives and condemning all who do not agree with us. And then we are apt to call our haste and impatience "zeal for the truth," when, in fact, it is often a hotheaded, unkind and unreasoning zeal for our own way of thinking. Now, I am strongly inclined to believe that this is one of the last fruits of the carnal mind which grace ever subdues.

But let us who have become "partakers of the Divine nature" (2 Pet. i. 4) see to it that this root of the carnal nature is utterly destroyed. When men oppose us, let us not argue nor revile nor condemn, but lovingly instruct them -- not with an air of superior wisdom and holiness, but with meekness, solemnly remembering that "the servant of the Lord must not strive, but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient" (2 Tim. ii. 23-25).

I find that often, after having plainly, fully and calmly stated my views to one who is opposing the truth as I see it, I am strongly tempted to strive for the last word; but I also find that God blesses me most when I there commit the matter into His hands, and by so doing I most often win my adversary. I believe this is the way of faith and the way of meekness. While it may seemingly leave us defeated, we generally in the end win our foe. And if we have true meekness, we shall rejoice more over having won him to an "acknowledging of the truth" (2 Tim. ii. 25) than in having won an argument.

sermonindex Feb 29, 2008

Roniya wrote:
Good Example: The Jones boys were fighting in the bathroom. I told them to stop and they said, “Get a life, old man!” I am going to talk to their father about their rebellion, strife, and disrespect for their elders.

Good Example: Unless you’ve seen this feud firsthand, you have just engaged in gossip. You need to stop this conversation, repent of your sin, confront the person who told you, then go to the Hatfields and McCoys and confess to them that you’ve been gossiping about them. I’ll give you three days to get this done before I intervene.

Good Example: I confronted Mr. Jenkins about his treatment of his wife and he told me it was none of my business. I have to confront the issue again and I need someone to go with me and call him to repentance.

These examples you have given have alot of holes in them. First of all:

Example #1 Whos is the person who is making the accusation talking to when they say "...I'm going to talk to thier father..." This shouldn't be said to just anyone.

Example #2 This example leads one to think it is ok to talk about a feud so long as you have witnessed to it which is not scriptural, unprofitable and sinful. Also telling someone they have three days is a little much don't you think? You should just tell the person you believe what they have done is gossip and leave it in the hands of the Lord. It's only when things continue or escalate that you would have to take matters in your own hands. You cannot play the part of the holy spirit here. You must be careful.

Example#3 Again who is this person talking to when they say they are "...going to confront Mr. Jenkins wife..."

Now who's being the gossip here in these three examples? It looks as though you!

P

PreachParsly Feb 29, 2008

Hello,

It seems your new here. Welcome to SI.

Now who's being the gossip here in these three examples? It looks as though you!

These are not real stories... only examples. Although I may be misinterpreting what you are saying. Maybe you are saying that if this were a real example it would be gossip? (edit: That's probably what you mean.. )