please im confused about baptism and feel i could go to hell

today i was talking to a guy from a church that was called church of christ and they are now called mission point church? i dont know but if anyone knows the new name i guess or whatever that other branch is, then thats what they are but anyways, they say you have to get baptized to go to heaven. Now before i get into that, i would say everything about them has been so perfect. they have helped me in so many ways no other christians ever did. I saw so much hipocracy with christians and i thought no christians existed that really were inlove with god...but i found them to want to make disciples and people really like them at school so much and thier doctrine pretty much with the bible in so many ways. all the girls and guys it seems, dont even do sins that many christians could claim they have too much trouble with such as porn and that other thing that goes hand in hand. and they helped me break away. i mean if i read the bible and i look at them i feel like im looking at the same thing. so after saying all that, something troubles me about how they say you need to be baptized or you will go to hell. also it troubles me how if ur not making disciples you will go to hell even though thats what i would want to do...but i hope you see my point. anyways he used so much scripture to back up his claims. he didnt just read a scripture but we read 2 whole paragraphs to show how the scripture he was trying to prove connected with the other parts. what i mean is that if u say all you need to do is say jesus i believe in you based on one scripture but you live a sinful life with no repentance then you should of read more of that chapter so you could see exactly what it meant...i hope that made sense, but my point was that he showed so much evidence and read other books in the bible that pointed to that one scripture also. so in the end it was all backed up in the bible. so heres what he showed me and i hope someone can help me with these scriptures with good sources... dont give me opinions please prove to me because thats what he did. please no opinions but good solid proof with no contradictions. he said in acts chapter 10 that when peter was speaking and then the holy spirit came on the people that its different than coming in the people. it came upon but no in and that that it was to show how gentiles and jews can both have the spirit and proving this by i guess speaking and tongues to in the end as his vision said, to show they are all alike with no favoritism. he also said that peter had just started speaking and if he wasnt able to finish and he just started, then that means that he couldnt of finished sharing the whoe gospel. i guess he meant that they couldnt of gotten the whole msg about just accept jesus and such.
next point is that he then said how everytime people got saved, baptism was always involved. but i said what about the times like the prostitute with jesus and the woman at the well. but he said just because it doesnt say jesus mentioned it doesnt mean it didnt happen because not everysingile detail was always written. and that the bible may want to point out certain things greater so that it can cover everything. which i can agree with about that part...
the next thing is at the end of acts i think? i forgot but he read a scripture where someone asks the disciples and notice that to be a disciple you are a believe in jesus, but it said that someone i forgot the name, but someone asked the disciples whos baptism did they recieve, because they said they did not have the holy spirit, and they said jons so he said he would give them the baptism of the holy spirit....so before jesus death it meant baptism of repentace and after his death that is the baptism we need since they needed another baptism which is for salvation. that one hits me hard cus it makes so much sense that we need baptism yet something troubles my heart.....
last but not least is unless you are born again of water and spirit.....well it says water and it seems so clear that the bible points to baptism. i mean how can anyone prove that the water means anything else. why cant water mean water? and if thats the case then we need baptism right? so please someone help im so confused and feel i could be going to hell

luckyd, sorry I can't say more to you know but remember what Ephesians 2:8-9 says:

8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

The brothers and sisters here on SI will help you clear this up............

Here I am going to try and answer your question without using scripture because im at work right now with a few minutes to spare.
Im sure someone will square you away.
I wasnt quite sure which baptism you were talking about.
Water or spirit?
but remember that when the bible translators used the word baptismo, it was a translierization.
basically meaning this, the word actually means emersed, or to be completely covered.
Were told in scripture to Repent and be baptized.
If we want to be obedient followers of Christ, to obey his commands should not be a burden to us and a bone of contention.
Just dive in the water and say Hallalueeeaaaa.
Yes I am sure we could always find exceptions to every rule, Like what about the guy on the cross next to Jesus...
Looking for excape clauses from doing something takes longer than getting wet..
(im being funny) :-P
God knows every heart.
If your talking about Spirit Baptism.
he fills us when we are saved, and seals us with the spirit of promise.
Not to be confused with an anointing or Gift.
But that would be other threads with many opinions.
no matter. God loves you and wants us to be in right relationship with him and Jesus is the way for that.
Repent and be baptized...
God bless... All that and no scripture like you asked.. Im sorry... some help here guys.....

The Church of Christ teaches salvation thru faith AND baptism. This is absolutely unbiblical. There is nothing about baptism that adds or subtracts from Christ's shed blood.

Yes, we are commanded to be baptised as it is an outward sign of what has taken place inside. It is a public testimony. We should be baptised.

that being said, i believe scripture shows that we who profess Christ should be baptized in water. 1) Jesus tells us to (matthew 28:19-20) 2) it is an outward sign of an inward change 3) it is a physical picture of what romans 6 tells us happens at conversion (we were baptized in to His death [down in water] and raised to walk in newness of life [up from water]).

but once again, i do not see in scripture that it is a requirement for salvation (ephesians 2:8-10). but if possible every believer should be baptized.

hope that helps.
phil

Acts 10: 47 [b]Can ANY MAN forbid water[/b], that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he [b]COMMANDED them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.[/b]

Mark 16:16[color=FF0000]He that [b]believeth and is BAPTIZED SHALL BE SAVED[/b]; but he that believeth not shall be damned.[/color]

Mark 16:16 is clear that one MUST believe AND BE BAPTIZED to be saved.

1 Peter 3:20 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, [b]eight souls were SAVED BY WATER.[/b]

21 The [b]like figure[/b] whereunto [b]even BAPTISM doth also NOW SAVE US[/b] (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Acts 2:34 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, [b]both Lord and Christ. 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?[/b] 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, [b]and be BAPTIZED every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS[/b], and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Quite a bit here luckyd ...

dont give me opinions please prove to me because thats what he did

He also gave you his opinion. The addition of [i]or else[/i] is bothersome as a lot of these extrapolations often are. It makes for a puzzle out of something that is a completed picture. In other words it is just unnecessary.

What it boils down to is simply this.

Just do it.

If you haven't.

And forget all the rest of these things. The thief on the cross was not allowed to be taken down for a time out. But again, that is still besides the point. This whole 'topic' has always sat very sideways with me, the onus being out on the wrong thing.

The eunuch and Phillip;

"And as they went on [i]their[/i] way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, [i]here[/i] is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?" ~ Act 8:36 (Italics extant)

There is a sense of excitement even over willingness. A 'get to' over a 'have to'. Being baptized is one of the most wonderful events in the world. My own, my mother-in-laws, a brother in a park dunked into a large horse trough! Art Katz taking new coverts into the bathroom and sticking them into a bath tub! *Greg in the ocean! These come instantly to mind. Grand moments and great tears of joy ... Where else can you simultaneously die and live, trade one kingdom for the other even if it is an expression ... but an expression of a reality. It so thrills my soul to even think back on it I am ready to do it all over again.

Besides, the Lord said to do it. That's more than enough.

([i]*Edit: Seem to recall pic's around here somewhere.[/i])

1 Corinthians 1:14 - 19 (KJV) 14I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17[b]For Christ sent me not to baptize,[/b] but to
[u]preach the gospel[/u]: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

Obviously the Gospel is not baptism. It comes after salvation. One of the scriptures so frequently twisted by those that I agree can seem so sweet and religious and so forth and zealous as Paul says in Galatians which you should read from start to finish where you will find the Gospel but not baptism... is Peter's epistle where he says this:
1 Peter 3:21-22 (KJV) 21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 22Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

But if you will look at what it actually says, it is a "figure" and it is a figure of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.. for the one purpose of an answer of a good conscience toward God.

I have dealt many times unfortunately with these folks, one of their largest churches is just a few miles from my house, one of their most prominent families that wrote songs for the denomination was our mayor, and so forth... nice folks until you start pressing scriptures that teach salvation by faith alone, by grace alone, in Christ alone.

And then you find out that they have quite a few other false doctrines such as that the Revelation is already past, cessation of all miracles, and etc.

PM me and I will gladly share more information.

Clint

Brother, remember the thief on the cross, whom God gave us as an indelible reminder that the fulfillment of the requirement for salvation is instant and by faith alone in Jesus Christ. [i]"O, remember me, Lord, when thou comest into thy kingdom.."[/i] Returning to the "saved thief" has saved me from going off into philosphical and theological tangents and speculations and has forever quashed any temptation to add to God's Word a superfluous requirement for salvation other than faith alone.

The thief on the cross had no time to do anything - no time for water baptism, no speaking in tongues, no knocking on doors, no adhering to the sacerdotal obligations of a particular denomination. All he needed to do was [i]die.[/i] Dear brother, if you won't forget Luke 23:42-43, you'll never be led astray by salvific additions.

Brother Paul

(edit) I felt I needed to add this, since I read more posts and saw the thief on the cross had already been referenced. The thief had no time to come down from the cross and get baptised and validate his committment to Jesus, but we who are physically able to this should be delighted to do so, and not feel compelled or contrained to do it out of fear of grieving God or compromising our salvation if we don't. The believer, when prompted by the Holy Spirit, will express the glad desire and [i]intiate it himself without having to be coerced by a pastor or assembly.[/i] At least this has been my experience: [i]"Paster , I would like to be baptized!"[/i]

broclint wrote:

1 Corinthians 1:14 - 19 (KJV) 14I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17[b]For Christ sent me not to baptize,[/b] but to
[u]preach the gospel[/u]: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

John 1:33 And I knew him not: [b]but he that sent me to baptize with water[/b], the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

What Paul means is, God did not send me to baptize without preaching. When he goes on to say, but he sent me to preach the gospel-it is with understanding that all who adhere to the Gospel should and would be baptized.

But, John the BAPTIST, as stated above, WAS SENT TO BAPTIZE-yet that doesn't mean John didn't preach,and also doesn't mean anything that Paul said he wasn't sent to baptize-but of course we KNOW that John preached though he was sent to baptize. Because preaching and baptizing go together.

Acts 2:38 "....repent AND BE BAPTIZED..."
Acts 8:35 "35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and [b]preached unto him Jesus.[/b] 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a [b]certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? [/b]

Matt 28:19 19 Go ye therefore, and [b]teach all nations, baptizing them[/b] in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Mark 16:16 is clear as to this topic and question:
Mark 16:16 [color=FF3300]He that [b]BELIEVETH [size=medium]AND[/size]is BAPTIZED shall be saved[/b]; but he that believeth not shall be damned.[/color][b]

KrispyKrittr wrote:

Mark 16:16 is clear that one MUST believe AND BE BAPTIZED to be saved.

Only when taken out of the context of scripture as a whole... and only when you ignore the last part of that verse.

The last part of that verse says: [i]"but he that believeth not shall be damned."[/i] Notice it doesnt say "he that believeth not and/or is not baptised shall be damned.

Krispy

Uh...this is because unbelievers DON'T GET BAPTIZED, only people who have heard the Gospel, BELIEVE IT and have REPENTED get baptized Krispy-that is the scriptural way.

Also this is because "..he that believeth not is condemned ALREADY..." Unbelievers do not have to or committ any specific sin to be damned-they are already damned.

It's funny you say notice the last part of the verse, but you do not acknowledge the first part of the verse. The question asked in this topic is by someone who BELIEVES, not a non-believer, thus if he believes, then he must be baptized because :

Mark 16:16 He that BELIEVETH and is Baptized shall be saved...."

If you believe, you must be baptized-if you don't believe you don't have to not do anything because you are damned already-you were born damned(in sin)

PaulWest wrote:
Brother, remember the thief on the cross, whom God gave us as an indelible reminder that the fulfillment of the requirement for salvation is instant and by faith alone in Jesus Christ. [i]"O, remember me, Lord, when thou comest into thy kingdom.."[/i] Returning to the "saved thief" has saved me from going off into philosphical and theological tangents and speculations and has forever quashed any temptation to add to God's Word a superfluous requirement for salvation other than faith alone.

The thief on the cross had no time to do anything - no time for water baptism, no speaking in tongues, no knocking on doors, no adhering to the sacerdotal obligations of a particular denomination. All he had time to do was [i]die.[/i] Dear brother, if you won't forget Luke 23:42-43, you'll never be led astray by salvific additions.

Brother Paul

(edit) I felt I needed to add this, since I read more posts and saw the thief on the cross had already been referenced. The thief had no time to come down from the cross and get baptised and validate his committment to Jesus, but we who are physically able to this, should be delighted to do so...willfully. Not feeling compelled or contrained to do it out of fear of grieving God. The believer on whom the Spirit of the Lord rests will express the glad desire and intiate it themselves without having to be coerced by a pastor or assembly. At least this has been my experience: [i]"Paster , I would like to be baptized!"[/i]

The thief on the cross is no part in this discussion, was he saved without being water baptized YES, was he saved without receiving or being filled with the Holy Spirit-YES.....but what we must remember is that the thief on the cross died BEFORE Jesus gave the great Commission-and it is in the Great Commission, that Jesus Commissions the Disciples to Baptize.

In other words, the theif died before Jesus ever gave the disciples the Commandment to baptize-Jesus gave them the Commandment/Commission AFTER his Resurrection-by this time the thief had already been dead for 39 days or so.

Instead, people need to look at how every single person in the Book of Acts who believed was BAPTIZED IMMEDIATLEY upon belief/confession.

Instead, people need to look at how every single person in the Book of Acts who believed was BAPTIZED IMMEDIATLEY upon belief/confession.

Is this true? Was Paul baptized in water immediately?

BlazedbyGod wrote:

Mark 16:16 is clear that one MUST believe AND BE BAPTIZED to be saved.

Blazed

Do you believe that in the end days there will be people that are given the choice of denying God and living, or accepting God and dying? Like in the days of Revelation... cutting off of heads?

Do you think those saints who accept Jesus under the penalty of death will be given a chance to be baptized by their captors? Will these evil men say something like this:

Question to the saint/s, "Do you believe in Jesus?" Answer, "Yes". Reply, "You will now be put to death, allow us to baptize you first"

Belief is the only way. Baptism is important, but will not save you. By claiming that you NEED to be baptized is turning the baptism itself into a works.

Works do not save.

Brother Blazed, you are getting a little too hot in your response. Remember that the inquiry here was not whether he should be baptized but whether baptism were essential to salvation and it clearly is not. You would put millions into hell by such a doctrine. Sure we are to follow the Lord in all the ordinances such as communion, some require "foot washing" others speaking in tongues "to be saved" and there is no doubt that all of these are doctrines taught in the Bible but are not NOT what saves us.

Again read the context of what Paul said and he made no mistake in saying it:1 Corinthians 1:14 - 18 (KJV) 14I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

He did not even recall who or who he did not baptize. It is not that baptism is unimportant, but very obviously Paul was concerned in getting folks converted, saved, redeemed, by the BLOOD of Jesus Christ. Water is used as a symbol, nothing more, nothing less.

Clint

PaulWest wrote:

Instead, people need to look at how every single person in the Book of Acts who believed was BAPTIZED IMMEDIATLEY upon belief/confession.

Is this true? Was Paul baptized in water immediately?

Acts 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was [b]baptized[/b].