Watchman Nee and Confucianism

I was on another thread dicussing Head Covering some of the teaching they where using was Watcman Nee's

I went to the site where to read up on it. Nee in his teaching get calls God's judgement, God's Government. I discern the words he used where very controling to manipulate the reader. I went investigating and came up with what is quoted.

Watchman Nee learned this concept of delegated authority from the ethics of Confucianism. Confucius taught that parents should always be obeyed, that they were never wrong, but if they were they should still be obeyed. Among Confucianists loyalty is one of the greatest virtues and can lead to the blind loyalty described in Nee's statement.

Watchman Nee learned this concept of delegated authority from the ethics of Confucianism. Confucius taught that parents should always be obeyed, that they were never wrong, but if they were they should still be obeyed. Among Confucianists loyalty is one of the greatest virtues and can lead to the blind loyalty described in Nee's statement.

To bring this concept into Christianity antagonizes one of the most fundamental principles of New Testament Christianity, the Priesthood of all believers. When the veil of the Temple was torn in half God was signifying that we all now have equal access to Him. There is no person who has spiritual authority (power) over us. We are all siblings in Christ and there is no chain of command among siblings.

Authority in the New Testament is of a completely different order. In some settings in our life we experience the kind of leadership that has the power of command. Our jobs are many times an example. But in the church a very different kind of leadership is needed

https://www.watchman.org/cults/onemasterchrist.htm

Quote taken from the site above.

Just some caution here;

First, I would hesitate to pass judgment on a brother based on some clip from a so-called discernment website. I believe Watchman Nee has taken a bad rap because of his association with Witness Lee, who took some of his teachings and ran in the wrong direction with them. Lets just be careful here and search these things out for ourselves.(in case you're wondering, I'm not a Watchman Nee devotee although I have been blessed by some things he wrote, especially The Normal Christian Life.)

Second, ad hominem arguments don't acomplish much and in the end, they really are just a way of avoiding the issue of whether or not what someone says concerning a topic of discussion is scriptural or not.

In Christ,

Ron

HeadCovering Love One Another, CFP, by Watchman Nee

The matter of head covering belongs to God’s government. For those who do not know God’s government, it is impossible to exhort them to have their heads covered. They will not be able to understand how much is involved in this matter. But those who have seen God’s government in God’s revealed Word are able to appreciate the tremendous connection between head covering and God’s government

This statement above is dreadful and is cultish sounding.

Without saying anymore about the above statement and losing anyone, I will press on below Watchman Nee gives us some examples of God government and his understanding of it.

Examples of God’s Government
1. ADAM
You remember the tragic story of Adam’s fall. After God created Adam, He planted a garden and put man in charge of it. God literally gave this garden to Adam and Eve. “Eden” means “pleasure.” So this first couple lived in a garden of pleasure. Then they sinned against God. Even though God gave them the promise of redemption, saying that a Savior would come as the seed of the women, yet He drove them out of the Garden of Eden. It is God’s grace to save, but that did not change God’s government in driving out Adam and Eve.

Not only was Adam thrown out of Eden, but also God set cherubim to guard the garden so that Adam could not again enter. This too is God’s government. Thus we can see that God’s government and God’s grace are two separate matters. Grace gives man the promise of a Savior, [b]but God’s government drives that same man out of the Garden of Eden[/b].

2. THE ISRAELITES
Having arrived at Kadesh-Barnea, the Israelites refused to enter into Canaan; consequently, God denied them that privilege. Though they repented and then tried to enter, many of them were killed by the Canaanites, for God had barred the way. Their cries did not change God’s decision (Num. 13 and 14). [b]God has His governmental act; He will not allow men to interfere with His government.[/b]

3. MOSES
Moses did not sanctify the Lord before the eyes of the people when he smote the rock twice; as a consequence he could not enter into Canaan (Num. 20:7-12). Though God had mercy on him by bringing him to the top of Pisgah, He did not allow him to enter Canaan with His people. Moses could view the land with God on Pisgah, but he could not enter in (see Deut. 34). For Moses to see the boundaries of the land of Canaan from the mountaintop was God’s grace; [b]for him not to be allowed to enter in was God’s government.[/b]

4. DAVID
After David sinned, God was gracious and merciful to him in forgiving his sin. God even gave him special grace after that incident by permitting David to have unusual fellowship with Him. Yet the sword never left his house (2 Sam. 12:7-14). [b]This is God’s government[/b] .

5. PAUL AND BARNABAS
Paul and Barnabas separated from each other because of Mark (Acts 15:37-39). Mark was Barnabas’ relative (Col. 4:10). He deserted Paul and Barnabas on their first missionary trip, but Barnabas was willing to take him again on the next trip. Clearly this was due to their relationship in the flesh. After Barnabas was separated from Paul, he took Mark to Cyprus, their native place, indicating that they worked together according to the fleshly relationship. Though it may be that Barnabas was still used of God and still did a good work, nevertheless the Holy Spirit took his name out of the Bible thereafter. No doubt his name is in the book of life, but it is no longer recorded in the book of Acts. [b]This is God’s government. Under the government of God, man is not free to walk in his own way.[/b]

As you can see from the above quotes from Watchman Nee in point 1 to 5 which are highlighted Nee states that these acts are God’s Government. These acts are acts of Judgment which are a part of Goverment. Government does more than make Judgments.

Think about the Government in your country know I know it can never stand up to God's Government. But the Government in your country does more than make judgements on situations or people. It’s the same with God government to say that God government only judges even though that judgements are righteous is wrong and is not giving a full picture of Gods government.

Look at this statemnt taken from above.

Grace gives man the promise of a Savior, but God’s government drives that same man out of the Garden of Eden.

No God's government gives grace, saviour and judgement and more much much more.

Nee clearly does not understand government.

InTheLight wrote:
Just some caution here;

First, I would hesitate to pass judgment on a brother based on some clip from a so-called discernment website. I believe Watchman Nee has taken a bad rap because of his association with Witness Lee, who took some of his teachings and ran in the wrong direction with them. Lets just be careful here and search these things out for ourselves.(in case you're wondering, I'm not a Watchman Nee devotee although I have been blessed by some things he wrote, especially The Normal Christian Life.)

Second, ad hominem arguments don't acomplish much and in the end, they really are just a way of avoiding the issue of whether or not what someone says concerning a topic of discussion is scriptural or not.

In Christ,

Ron

Ron I hear you...

This was the first time I have read any of his material.

I was another thread and read his teaching. It was then I discerned that he was off. That's why I posted this thread because of that discerment.

I went to the other site which confirmed my fears. Someone else on this thread is also confirming it.

Judge for yourself..........

Hi HE_Reigns...

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/wsf2.htm

sermonIndex.net is a calvinist organization. It is an alliance member Gospelcom.net which is also an intensely calvinist organization. Anyway, sermonindex moderators were defending leeists (also calvinists) when I found them swarming the place and trying to marry themselves to Watchman Nee, yet they say they have advanced knowledge exceeding that of Nee's writings. No they don't, for they altered his writings and think opposite to what he believes. They have not introduced an improved thought, but rather that which is diabolically opposite in the 6 major sins of leeism. Doing my due diligence, I gave the truth of their mistaken assumptions; then I was banned so I could not view their website at all. The underlying cause for this banning in particular was because of the truth of Biblical locality, which the owner of this website could not accept; nor partial rapture, osas arminian and triparite man. The sermonindex forum promotes those such as T. Austin Sparks who, against God's will, reject Biblical locality, thus dividing the body of Christ falsely.

:-P

As far as Watchman Nee, I have never been a fan of his writings. It's not that I find anything [i]wrong[/i] with all that he says; I just don't get much out of it (if that makes sense). I suppose that I feel that it deviates just a little too far into his own personal doctrinal persuasion than I care to venture. I've read through some of his material, but it just doesn't hold my interest for very long. On the other hand, I know some good people who literally "consume" his writings. They always express how "wonderfully deep" his writings can be. They seem puzzled, however, when I tell them that I don't care too much for his material.

I suppose that I would just prefer to read other things. It's nice to know that I'm not alone in this thought.

:-)

HE_Reigns wrote:
This post is not about Nee or head coverings - but about following men.

On the 13th, when the article in question was posted, I did what I normally do and that peruse the site.

That's the one posted on the Headcovering thread? I quess?.

Again - this is NOT about Nee, but about Following Men above His WORD.

Please explain I am still trying to catch up

The man that owns that site was banned from here.

The man says, there are I think, 7 carnal doctrines that we must agree with, before we can post on his forum.

Look at this page - and at least scroll down some to the bottom.

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/wsf2.htm

[b]Please[/b] see the enemy is trying to split HIS Body over the teachings of men and that they are seeing 'their' beliefs more important than fighting Blatant Heresy as One Body that loves each other more than the world loves their own.

Expalin please I am not up to speed yet. I am trying to fiquire out what is going on.

Paul was a man, do we throw out his writings because we do not agree with them?

What does Nee have to do with the teaching of the Word of God?

It all comes down to the matter of interpretation, people look to the writings of others to confirm their own beliefs, even to watchman groups.
This is in error; we look to the Holy Spirit who is the teacher, not man.

Paul’s writings as well as all authors of the Bible must be spiritually discerned, the natural man cannot receive the things of God. Stop trying to.

2 Tim. 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

The Scripture is God Breathed and thus must be quickened to our understanding by the Holy Spirit.

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The whole issue here is headship; is it taught in the word of God?

1 Cor. 15:24-28
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. [25] For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. [26] The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. [27] For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. [28] And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

“But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, … he shall teach you all things,”

In His Love
pastorfrin

I went digging around in that web site that you posted the link to.

That guy has some strange ideas.

I was confused for a while and I posted while in confusion. That why you did understand me.

I love to read the messages here and listen to the sermons - but I wouldn't break the peace over Calvinism against Whatever, or any other that is not Foundational/Salvation stuff.

I agree with you there. Here is the only place I can listen to preaching as I don't go to a church know. I go along maybe once in 2-3 months.

When I was a young Christian others used to ask me what type of Christian I was. I would say what type there is only one type.

Oh how my bubble burst..........

Sad Christ brought me so much joy Christianity has brought me so much pain.....

The Church is a voluntary association of free people who accept the authority of God but recognize the equality of every believer. Because God is no respecter of persons, and because we are brothers and sisters in Christ, and because we can come equally before the Throne of Grace, [b]the only valid authority and leadership we can follow is one of servant leadership[/b]

Pharaohs or Fathers? Spiritual Authority - It's Uses and Abuses
by David Ravenhill

PHARAOHS

Pharaohs have slaves, Pharaohs command, Pharaohs dominate, Pharaohs dictate, Pharaohs destroy and demean, Pharaohs remove, Pharaohs restrain, Pharaohs manipulate, Pharaohs emasculate, Pharaohs whip, Pharaohs want results, Pharaohs build great cities, Pharaohs are hardhearted, Pharaohs fear success, Pharaohs want servants, Pharaohs prey on slaves

SLAVES

Slaves die for pharaohs, Slaves work out of fear, Slaves work out of duty, Slaves remain slaves
Slaves loathe pharaohs, Slaves are discouraged, Slaves receive reproval, Slaves grow to hate & hurt, Slaves have numbers, Slaves celebrate pharaohs death, Slaves escape, Slaves sigh

FATHERS

Fathers have sons, Fathers counsel, Fathers liberate, Fathers communicate, Fathers discipline, Fathers restore, Fathers release, Fathers motivate, Fathers propagate, Fathers weep, Fathers want relationship, Fathers build great sons, Fathers are tenderhearted, Fathers foster success,
Fathers are servants, Fathers pray for sons, Fathers die for sons

SONS

Sons work out of faith, Sons work out of devotion, Sons develop into fathers, Sons love fathers
Sons are encouraged, Sons receive approval, Sons grow to heal & help, Sons have names, Sons commiserate a fathers death, Sons return, Sons sing

to He_Reigns:

You mentioned that you read Spiritual Authority and followed it, but that you came to realize that it was in error. I was a part of a group that very heavily emphasized this book. I have come to see it as something that is not entirely biblical, but don't seem to have much more insight on it than that. I feel it is very important to understand this issue, but I lack understanding. I am seeking the Lord on it, but if you have walked down this road, and could give me some insight, I would appreciate it. Thanks, brother.

I believe bro Ron (post no. 3) to be accurate.

I came to the lord at the tail end of the shepherding movement.

The ones that got radical were the witness Lee followers.

I have enjoyed and been blessed by Watchman Nee over the years.

David

This was the first time I have read any of his material.

I was another thread and read his teaching. It was then I discerned that he was off. That's why I posted this thread because of that discerment.

I went to the other site which confirmed my fears. Someone else on this thread is also confirming it.

Judge for yourself..........

Would echo Ron's comments once again. Don't jump to conclusions without doing due diligence. We have had more than a few conversations here on Watchman Nee and by extension Witness Lee. There is a great deal to take into consideration and an even greater deal of confusion.

Also, please do not take personal shots at other members here.