Brothers and Sisters,
You are about to be encouraged greatly! This message is a must hear from Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill Church in Seattle, Washington.
The link is: http://www.marshillchurch.org/sermonseries/religionsaves/week_05.aspx
anyone hear/watch this?
Very good message. I am not familiar with Mark Driscoll, but I will say this was very straight forward and Biblically sound. He does not pull any punches. This type of straight forward honesty is needed today. I hope those in need find this message.
Thanks for the post brother.
Could you offer up any info on Driscoll?
brother tj servant,
From what I know he is the pastor at Mars Hill Church in Seattle, WA. I guess they call him "emergent" as opposed to "emerging" he is Calvinistic in doctrine and quite sound from what I know.
From what I know he is the pastor at Mars Hill Church in Seattle, WA. I guess they call him "emergent" as opposed to "emerging" he is Calvinistic in doctrine and quite sound from what I know.
I have been grieved much trying to watch some of his materials. This is not the sort of Christianity that Christ died for brethren.
Driscoll claims to be away from the emergent church scene but in reality he is just as emerging church as rob bell and others.
I’m glad you posted Greg...I agree.
After watching the first video last night, I decided to watch more of him today. I could not finish a sermon…if that is what you call it. I also was troubled by his extreme casualness when talking about some of the most serious matters and concerns mentioned in the Bible.
He seems to be very into being relevant to the culture.
He looks like the culture.
He acts like the culture.
He sounds like the culture.
Maybe I take the, “Be ye separate” to far.
You know the saying, “If it looks like a duck…”
This is one of the great things about this website. Being able to warn and give others a heads up in situations just like this one is what we do.
His original message contains a lot of Biblical truth, but he is rather loose and somewhat worldly with his use of terms, expressions, secular media….
I know his crowd is comprised of hardened inner city youth, but I personally think this “style” is not a necessity.
This emergent scene is a great burden to me.
Just some thoughts…
From Wickipedia, I found the following about Pastor Mark Driscol---these are his own remarks:
Controversial remarks
Driscoll caused controversy following revelations that mega-church pastor Ted Haggard used the services of a gay prostitute by remarking on his blog that many pastors fall into sexual sin because their wives let themselves go.[7] In his post, Driscoll wrote, "Most pastors I know do not have satisfying, free, sexual conversations and liberties with their wives. At the risk of being even more widely despised than I currently am, I will lean over the plate and take one for the team on this. It is not uncommon to meet pastors' wives who really let themselves go; they sometimes feel that because their husband is a pastor, he is therefore trapped into fidelity, which gives them cause for laziness. A wife who lets herself go and is not sexually available to her husband in the ways that the Song of Songs is so frank about is not responsible for her husband's sin, but she may not be helping him either." He later posted an apology and explanation after widespread protests. [8]
Driscoll has also been quoted as implying that non-Christian cultures practice cannibalism, and that cannibalism was stopped only by the spread of Christianity. "After church tonight you will go home and you will eat chicken, not human, because of the spread of Christianity," Driscoll said. "… go to a country where there hasn't been the spread of Christianity and they're having human for dinner."[9]
There is a strong drift toward the hard theological left. Some emergent types [want] to recast Jesus as a limp-wrist hippie in a dress with a lot of product in His hair, who drank decaf and made pithy Zen statements about life while shopping for the perfect pair of shoes. In Revelation, Jesus is a pride fighter with a tattoo down His leg, a sword in His hand and the commitment to make someone bleed. That is a guy I can worship. I cannot worship the hippie, diaper, halo Christ because I cannot worship a guy I can beat up. I fear some are becoming more cultural than Christian, and without a big Jesus who has authority and hates sin as revealed in the Bible, we will have less and less Christians, and more and more confused, spiritually self-righteous blogger critics of Christianity.
— Mark Driscoll, Relevant Magazine
[edit] Emergent Church movement
Mark Driscoll describes his association with, and eventual distancing from the Emergent Church movement:[10]
In the mid-1990s I was part of what is now known as the Emerging Church and spent some time traveling the country to speak on the emerging church in the emerging culture on a team put together by Leadership Network called the Young Leader Network. But, I eventually had to distance myself from the Emergent stream of the network because friends like Brian McLaren and Doug Pagitt began pushing a theological agenda that greatly troubled me. Examples include referring to God as a chick, questioning God's sovereignty over and knowledge of the future, denial of the substitutionary atonement at the cross, a low view of Scripture, and denial of hell which is one hell of a mistake.
Driscoll, along with Leif Moi, Mike Gun, and the Acts 29 community, is part of the missional theology community that adheres closely to classical Calvinist, or Reformed, theology and views their mission as communicating this school of theology to modern people. This contrasts with the Emergent Church movement, influenced by individuals like Brian McLaren, Doug Pagitt, and Rob Bell, which is more willing to re-examine and re-interpret traditional beliefs.
On Friday September 21st, 2007 whilst speaking at the Convergent Conference of the Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, Driscoll publicly warned the attendees about the teachings of Brian McLaren, Doug Pagitt and Rob Bell. Expressing concern for the views of his contemporaries, Driscoll cited many of their spoken and published views on the atonement, homosexuality, rabbinical authority, new age influences, mystic theology and their mutual affirmation/endorsement of books such as Ken Wilber's A Brief History of Everything. [11]
[edit] Quotations
It is imperative that Christians be like Jesus, by living freely within the culture as missionaries who are as faithful to the Father and His gospel as Jesus was in His own time and place. [12]
You have been told that God is a loving, gracious, merciful, kind, compassionate, wonderful, and good sky fairy who runs a day care in the sky and has a bucket of suckers for everyone because we're all good people. That is a lie... God looks down and says 'I hate you, you are my enemy, and I will crush you,' and we say that is deserved, right and just, and then God says 'Because of Jesus I will love you and forgive you.' This is a miracle. [13]
I study the Bible all week, pray to the Lord, and then I speak from my heart. It's all about brutal honesty. [14]
A pacifist has a lot of difficulty reconciling pacifism with scripture. [15]
..the truths of Christianity are constant, unchanging, and meant for all people, times, and places. But the methods by which truth is articulated and practiced must be culturally appropriated, and therefore constantly translated ()...if doctrine is constant and practice is constantly changing, the result is living orthodoxy. [16]
From my experience in overcoming sexual sins is simply trusting in the LORD that He is going to work out all things for my good.
Sin confess, sin confess becomes repetitious, but as you quickly repent each time and don't condemn yourself, it begins to wane. It takes time and don't be anxious for the change, just expect it over time.
This scripture verse really means more than what we think it means.
Lean on the grace of God with all that is in you, because the law won't help. Been there done that.2 Corinthians 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
Compliments, thanks for your post. That's exactly the message most probably don't want to hear.
"You mean there's no insta-cure?" Not that I know of. Get off your computer, away from the TV, go outside. Seek to hang out with the same sex unless you're married. Be busy doing good. Apply always for more grace to be obedient. Confess to God immediately if and when you sin. If you burn, consider marriage. If you're married, do not defraud one another except to pray and fast for a season.
God, please help all of us to be pure.
2 Cor 6:1
Rom 6:11
I had no idea about these things brothers and sisters. I am sorry for posting this.
sex is a big subject and there is nothing to be ashamed of in talking about it. Heb. 13:14 marriage is honorable in all and the bed undefiled, but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge. Little children don't understand till certain age and could be tempted to copy parents. So we must be careful with them. But I wanted to make this statement for some time-- The christians today need more teaching about biblical ethics. it shows up when many sites on internet promote christian dating. the warning on the label is-- Matt. 5:28 my quote-- if you lust for her in your heart only ,you have still commited the act. Prov. 4:23 keep thy heart with all diligence for out of it are the issues of life. add( claim the promises and God will send the right woman or man in his timing.)
Watch out, I'm going to defend Mark Driscoll again!
He looks like the culture.
He acts like the culture.
He sounds like the culture.
1 Cor 9:22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some.
If I had heard the same quote about looking like the culture and acting like the culture said in the context of missions, I would have said that the person was going to be very effective as a missionary.
You should all be ashamed of the way that you cut down this brother in Christ, so what if he's very frank in his language, he's mostly preaching to people who haven't grown up with flowery Christian language but have grown up in the most unchurched city in America, Seattle, where I live.
I'm personally very thankful for Mark Driscoll, even though I do not attend his church I am excited about the many non-christians that attend his church and have the opportunity to hear the gospel. Mars Hill church has been a blessing in the life of many people I know.
I believe that Mark Driscoll is the closest living thing to the ministry of CH Spurgeon. When I read Spurgeon I hear Mark Driscoll, and when I see Driscoll I hear Spurgeon... of course there is 100 years dividing both of them, so I have to account for some change in language.
You know, frankly, right now, I am ashamed to be affiliated with this forum. We talk about revival all day long, and supposedly long for it... but when there is a church actually saving people from damnation we are hyper critical of the way that the preacher dresses... we wouldn't know what to do with revival if we had it.
If the Welsh revival happened again today, we would decry it as unbiblical, as satanic, as worldly. The people from this forum would be the first to point out any scriptural grey areas, and assure people they are black!
Krispy, all of you, you do not know what spirit you are of, repent!
I hope this does not cause you to judge me, but I do not see it as you do. I do not have a problem with his “frankness”, we could do with more frankness and honesty in the pulpit, but I do have great concern for his, “extreme casualness when talking about some of the most serious matters and concerns mentioned in the Bible.” As said earlier I watched many of his videos and listened to several audios as well. His original message contains a lot of Biblical truth, but he is rather loose and somewhat worldly with his use of terms, expressions, secular media….
I know his crowd is comprised of hardened inner city youth, but I personally think this “style” is not a necessity.
I prayed before I posted previously and I have prayed before posting this one.
Grace and peace
PHARISEE!
Matt 11:19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners." ' But wisdom is proved right by her actions."
You would have accused Jesus of being 'too casual' just as the other Pharisees did. Repent.
PHARISEE!
Ian, this is unnecessary. People here are entitled to their own opinions of Driscoll's ministry without your name-calling and scathing rebukes.
You would have accused Jesus of being 'too casual' just as the other Pharisees did. Repent.
Don't judge this brother's intentions. You don't know his heart, and he hasn't given you any reason label him as a Christ-rejecting pharisee. What you are alluding to is horrible in its inception, and you are not posting in charity or understanding. Do reconsider your words, tenor, and attitude here. Brother, this is no place for confrontations.
Peace be with you.
No Paul, I am fed up with the overt hypocrisies on this forum -so much holier than thou, too many hyper critics. When I see sin I'll say it. This is sin. This is the same attitude as the Pharisees... spend all day reading religious books, and then crucifying the savior.
You would have accused Jesus of being 'too casual'
Speaking of Driscol I said:
I do have great concern for his, “extreme casualness when talking about...
Talking. Speaking of word usage...not appearance. Jesus was not casual with words.
I have not condemned Driscol. I have not denied the fact that God has used him. I have only stated that I do not care for, nor do I endorse, his style.
Grace and peace
When I see sin I'll say it. This is sin.
Is it a sin to have a critical opinion of Mr. Driscoll's ministry? Is it a sin that some brethren here might be offended and stumbled by his approach? I think if you took the time to PM brother TJ you would see that he is a genuine, loving brother, quite sensitive to the Spirit of the Lord and soundness of doctrine. It hurts me to see these types of exchanges here.
This is the same attitude as the Pharisees... spend all day reading religious books, and then crucifying the savior.
And you are blasting your brother without real cause, and this behavior is just as grevious in these forums as the "sins" you would call down fire from heaven on.
Paul,
When I try to use reason and scripture to confront others of their narrowness towards other Christian brothers they never budge.
As long as Mark Driscol doesn't fall into any grievous sin he'll probably be remembered as the Spurgeon of this generation, but until he's dead we're going to rip him apart about his style and his speech.
As soon as he's in the grave, everyone is going to agree about the positive contributions he's made to the Christian church in America.
The impact that Mars Hill has had here in Seattle is nothing but positive, and the church, by preaching Jesus, is winning people and changing lives. So what if Mark Driscol wears jeans... well guess what, Spurgeon stirred up controvercy by refusing to wear clerical robes, he dressed in a suit... well a suit was every day business attire in his generation.
Listen to Mark's messages, he's casual in his preaching, but at least he's alive, and he loves Jesus, and he preaches the Gospel, he preaches a very conservative reformed doctrine.
If I try to express this with reason, no one turns a head, they just keep on condemning. I'm tired of it, I'm going to try John the Baptist style - REPENT!
Please be patient with my entry here. If any moderator sees fit to delete it, I understand completely. For those reading, please use discretion.
Ian Smith wrote,
The impact that Mars Hill has had here in Seattle is nothing but positive
Ian, I also long for men like Spurgeon, Alleine, and Baxter to stand up with the message of the gospel. I commend any man for his courage to speak plainly of Christ, yet I cannot excuse needless flippancy. The prophets who were coarse did so by the inspiration of God, and with broken hearts. Jeremiah called the nation a whore, it is true, yet "his eyes were like fountains" as he gave the message God required of him.
It is not positive to display looseness of lips. It is child-like, avoidable, and especially unfit for pastors. The Spirit through Paul exhorts us to put away filthy speech, coarse jesting, and corrupt communications. In fact, it requires that these things not be found amongst us even once. (Eph 5)
It is one things to speak and be understood, and another to speak in garish ways designed to titillate and offend good sensibilities.
Paul became all a-moral things unto all people. He did not become im-moral for anyone.
In order to make myself clear, I have included a bit of commentary and a quote from one of Driscoll's latest books. Driscoll was not speaking off the cuff here - he edited and chose to publish what is represented. Decide for yourselves if this is appropriate.
----------Taken from another blog------------
Despite the many great quotes, there were a couple which I felt showed lack of discernment in theology, and equally troubling, several that which I felt were in poor taste, displaying the vulgarity for which Driscoll has formed something of a reputation. There are a few that are similar to this, using a pejorative term where a more tasteful one would have been, in my opinion, more appropriate: “Every one of them was older than me, a chronic masturbator, a porn addict, and banging weak-willed girls like a screen door in a stiff breeze…” (128). I also found this one quite disturbing:
"This was drilled home for me one night when the church phone in our house rang at some godforsaken hour when I’m not even a Christian, like 3:00 a.m. I answered it in a stupor, and on the other end was some college guy who was crying. I asked him what was wrong, and he said it was an emergency and he really need to talk to me. Trying to muster up my inner pastor, I sat down and tried to pretend I was concerned. I asked him what was wrong, and he rambled for a while about nothing, which usually means that a guy has sinned and is wasting time with dumb chitchat because he’s ashamed to just get to the point and confess. So I interrupted him blurting out, “It’s three a.m., so stop jerking me around. What you have done?”
“I masturbated,” he said.
“That’s it?” I said.
“Yes,” he replied. “Tonight I watched a porno and I masturbated.”
“Is the porno over?” I asked.
“Yes,” he said.
“Was it a good porno?” I asked.
He did not reply.
“Well, you’ve already watched the whole porno and tugged your tool, so what am I supposed to do?” I asked.
“I don’t know,” he said. “You are my pastor, so I thought that maybe you could pray for me.”
To be honest, I did not want to pray, so I just said the first thing that came to mind. “Jesus, thank you for not killing him for being a pervert. Amen,” I prayed.
“Alright, well you should sleep good now, so go to bed and don’t call me again tonight because I’m sleeping and you are making me angry,” I said.
“Well, what am I supposed to do now?” he asked.
“You need to stop watching porno and crying like a baby afterward and grow up, man. I don’t have time to be your accountability partner, so you need to be a man and nut up and take care of this yourself. A naked lady is good to look at, so get a job, get a wife, ask her to get naked, and look at her instead. Alright?” I said.
I cannot understand why he feels this type of quote is necessary. While this book is filled with confession, the one thing Driscoll does not seem to regret is his reputation as a loose canon and a man whose mouth is often filthy. I wonder if this will be the subject of another of his biblical studies. I hope it will be, for whatever he may feel he gains through this crudeness, it simply cannot be God-honoring. Scripture affirms many times that what comes out of the mouth is a sure indication of what is in the heart. Thus we have good reason to examine what we say and how we say it, for words are merely symptoms of what lies inside."
------------End of quote------------
This discussion is locked.
