Do these scripture describe satan?

I am greatly distressed. I need some help from you all. I do not see any direct reference to satan found in Isaiah 14 nor in Ezekiel 28. I find that if I read it without the presupposition that it is supposedly satan, it makes no connection to him. Help me please.
I need resources too. I know about the mention of cherub, but this is not any different when you call Pharaoh the great dragon in Ezekiel 29:3. I realize the the "being in eden" portion but that doesn't prove anything either since eden was symbolic of wealth and pleasure. I need a reason to be believe that this was talking about satan because for a long time i was lead to believe that it did. Please help. :-?

isa; 14;12 " O Lucifer son of the morning"

Am I missing something here?

David

Lucifer was taken from the Latin. It wasn't a term that the Hebrews used. In fact that hebrew word used is Haylel which means "spreading brightness". We use the term Lucifer to describe satan but if you remove that presupposition, what do you have to ensure that was who the scripture was talking about. In context as I have said before, it is talking to about a king.

12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

16They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

stick to what you know. There is no need to make this something else.

The context makes it clear this has to be satan

David

Please forgive me since this kind of subject has not been simple for me. Sticking to what I know has been the norm until I find information that causes me to think. The context does not make room for Satan. It can describe him if we so chose to use it that way, but if you start in the beginning of that chapter, who is the author speaking of? King of babylon. As you can see in verse 16 it was talking about a man. Why does this portion of scripture talk about satan and then it moves back to the king? When you read it, it clearly loses continuity when you interpret it like that. At what verse does it begin to STOP talking about Satan? Who gets to decide? At what verse does it begin to talk about Satan? This is not sarcasm. These are question even you yourself have asked about certain portions of scripture but considering that this scripture is "widely excepted" to talk about satan we don't think twice about it.

As I have said before, Lucifer was the name associated with satan, but it was not that way for the Hebrews. Read my previous post. Please continuing sharpening with me. I do seek the truth and the correct interpretation of the scriptures. I want to be able to bounce my points off of you to see what you would say, so that i can get some clarity on this thank you very much.

Brother David,

Strange you brought this up, for now I am too in doubt of this. I recently came across something A.Pink wrote, really can't remember where, to the effect that Lucifer, may not actually be satan himself, though he had long been assumed the same as Satan!?

(edit: sorry Warriorofgod, posted at the same time)

mamaluk

Please let me know what you find. This is no way a heretical thing. I seek the truth on how to interpret scripture. There are other arguments I want to propose concerning this subject but I want to see how others respond first so that I can test these scriptures with others understanding.

who is david?

David is Psalm1. I was confused. sorry. My post was in response to yours.

mamaluk

here is that book I think you were talking about.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/pink/antichrist.html

Yes, I forgot, I purchased and read this book a few months ago. I have been reading quite a bit of Pink this past year , quite inspiring and helpful really, thank God.

I think that the "mysterious" things/beings in the unseen world are quite difficult for us to pin down to a total accuracy, when I came across that point in Pink's book, I specifically remember "raising my eyebrows" a bit since I have forever long reckoned Lucifer as Satan.

Whether or not Lucifer=Satan, bibilically, the descriptions of Lucifer alone help my spiritual understanding a great deal, of Evil, and of the parallel sin nature in myself.

Knowing our GOD is greater than all is comforting enough for me. But I must say, I do appreciate the serious attitude of bible students who want to explore deeper into all that contains in this precious Book.

Thank you Warriorofgod.
mamaluk

Do you think it talks about satan today or do you go with the literal understanding of the text or do you got with the symbolical understanding of the text?

Even though it may not reference Satan directly, do you think it is still ok to say that it describes him? Let know your thoughts.

Reply to warriorofgod
Nebuchadnezzar was called Lucifer, this name sometimes mistakenly associated with Satan.

Eddie

I tend to agree with Eddie. To avoid letting satan to turn this into a "controversial" debate, I'd rather refrain from getting further into this.

The Lord in Scripture said for us to have a sound mind, (not necessary an open mind), and indeed the soundness of our minds can only come from diligence in searching Scriptures comparing Scriptures to Scriptures.

I also think that overall,most Christians really know all too little about satan and of all his calculating evil ways,in fact,most Christians I met don't seem to take satan seriously at all. Study on, brother.

[b]2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.[/b]

mamaluk

warrior, maybe you are right! Sometimes I stick my foot in my mouth.

I just dont know about it.

Could be Lucifer is Nebuchadnezzar?

I read it about 5 times.
Appears you may be right.

Interesting!

David

Another possibility is that in vs 12 Lucifer and nebuchadnezzar are being paralleled?

David

Dear friends,

I think there is in a sense a focal point in scripture in which the rays of revelation meet.

Christ Jesus, His life, His teachings, His Gospel and that of His Apostles are the prism in which the rays of revelation can be diffused into thier individual hues and by which they can be untited into most brilliant light.

In this case, it seems to me that the hosts of darkness had been so much hidden from view, as darkness would prefer it, but that, when the Army of Heaven, or rather, its Commander, decided to put the battle in full array, that is, that the Word of God was made flesh and pitched His tent among us, that this was enough to flush the hordes of darkness out into light of day.

And so their captain challenged ours and said to Him, speaking of all the kingdoms of the world, and their glory

"All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me."

But his assult was repulsed and now his army was exposed.

[i]...for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.[/i]

Reply to Brother Chris,

Building an house unto the name of The Lord our God.

-Abel,

-Noah,

-Abraham,

-Jacob,

-Moses,

-Jethro,

-Joshua,

-Gideon,

-Samuel,

-David,

-Solomon,

-Jehu,

-Hezekiah,

-Jehoshaphat,

-Jabez,

-Asa,

-Josiah,

-Daniel,

-Hananiah,

- Mishael,

-Azariah,

-Zacharias [Zechariah],

-Simeon,

-Anna, the prophetess,

-The Roman centurion,

-Cornelius, centurion ,

-Eunice and Lois,

-Simon, who is called Peter,

-Andrew his brother,

-James the son of Zebedee,

-John his brother,

-Philip,

-Bartholomew,

-Thomas,

-Matthew the publican,

-James the son of Alphaeus,

-Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus,

-Simon the Canaanite,

-All the disciples in the days of Jesus’s earthly ministry,

-Steven,

-Paul,

-You and all the disciples of Jesus who refuse the image of all men and do no unrighteousness in judgment, we who do not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty, but in righteousness we judge our neighbor..

Eddie