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joeSOC Feb 24, 2008

Hi guys,

I have just realized I appreciate the "finer things of life" and apparently i am sophisticated. What do i do? I sense this can be a problem. Or can it?

Thanks guys,
Joe

sermonindex Feb 24, 2008

I don't see a problem. I would hope that I'm sophisticated and not a heathen barbarian. I like the finer things in life to. I mean whats wrong with that. As long as you can be content with or without them.

sermonindex Feb 24, 2008


Hi Joe,

I once heard a preacher allude to his 'Jaeger jacket', while glancing along the front row of a conference congregation. The look of bewilderment on one man's face caused him to pause to ask if he had ever owned one also.... No? He didn't know what a Jaeger jacket was?

His reply 'Brother, you've never [i][b]lived![/i][/b]', seemed amusing, but he meant... that these are things we can joyfully [i]give up[/i], that we may serve our Lord Jesus Christ.

The same preacher also had a word for the elders present: 'Don't indulge yourselves!.... Not for half an hour ............. a year!'

You asked

I have just realized I appreciate the "finer things of life" and apparently i am sophisticated.
Do you know the origin of the word 'sophisticated' and what its root really means?

What do i do? I sense this can be a problem. Or can it?
Well, I found that Young's Literal Translation uses the word 'disown' a few times where it doesn't appear in the KJV at all. You might find that an interesting study, to determine whether it will be a problem or not.

:-D


Edit: Hi chief... what do you think?


sermonindex Feb 24, 2008

Edit: Hi chief... what do you think?
Hi dorcas,

If I had to chose between a cadillac or a pinto, I would chose the cadillac. Some may prefer the pinto, but I would prefer the cadillac. Depending on the budget that I have I would chose the one that I could afford, but again, I prefer the pinto. Now If I can't be content with the pinto, if that were best for my budget, but instead coveted the cadillac, then you probably got a proble. Just prefering something over something else, because of the craftesmanship, the reliability of it, or maybe just the beuty, there nothing wrong with that. I would rather have a Rembrant painting hanging in my living room over a Peccaso, only because I think Rembrant was a much better artist, his craftsmanship was better so I like it better. Whats wrong with that?

Now if I've got to have the Rembrant in order to be satisfied, I've probably got a problem.

Paul says in Phil 4:1 For I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therwith to be content.

C
ccchhhrrriiisss Feb 24, 2008

Hi Brother Joe...

I'm not sure what you mean by the "finer things in life." I suppose that this is a relative term. To a poor person, an old computer is one of the "finer things in life." To another, a new computer is a "finer thing." Still to others, a new Macintosh computer would be one of those "finer things." The same argument over the definition of "finer things" could be used in description of automobiles, food, restaurants, etc... To some of us, a value meal at McDonalds is disgusting. To some of the poor brethren in the third world, it may seem like the food of the rich. Do you see how this term could convey a different definition depending upon who reads it?

I think that the important thing is to be content with what God has given us. When I go running, I prefer to wear New Balance running shoes. Why? I think that they are far more comfortable on my feet (and preventive of injury) than something that I might purchase at Payless Shoe Source. Even though someone else could potentially view these shoes as a "finer thing in life," it serves a valuable purpose -- the preservation of my feet during exercise. However, I would still be content with whatever things that I had.

There is a great message found here at SermonIndex about the truth concerning "necessities versus luxuries" in regard to materialism. In his message [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=336&commentView=itemComments]Holy Ground[/url], David Wilkerson argues that many individuals in this world might view a telephone, in-house bathrooms and hot and cold running water as a luxury (while Western believers might see it as a necessity). Regardless of our condition, God wants us to be thankful and content with whatever God gives us.

:-)

J
joeSOC Feb 28, 2008

So what does sophistication mean ? Help me out here

J
joeSOC Feb 28, 2008

Look guys I do not have a car, I rent an apartment with a roomate, and I want to be a disciple of Jesus. I sensed a lot of condemnation when a dear brother in the Lord said my cufflinks were sophisticated ( and I was sophisticated). Now I did not buy them, they were a gift to me, when i started my career in sales. This is why I wanted to know. Thanks for your help you guys are like Gold !

sermonindex Feb 28, 2008


From dictionary.com

[b]sophistication[/b]

c.1400, "use or employment of sophistry," from M.L. sophisticationem (nom. sophisticatio), from sophisticare "adulterate, cheat quibble," from L. sophisticus "of sophists," from Gk. sophistikos "of or pertaining to a sophist," from sophistes "a wise man, master, teacher" (see sophist). Meaning "wordly wisdom, refinement, discrimination" is attested from 1850; sophisticated (of persons) "worldly wise, discriminating, refined" is attested from 1895.

[url=http://dictionary.reference.com/help/etymon.html]Online Etymology Dictionary[/url]


2. a deliberately invalid argument displaying ingenuity in reasoning in the hope of deceiving someone [syn: sophism]

3. being expert or having knowledge of some technical subject; "understanding affine transformations requires considerable mathematical sophistication"

4. the quality or character of being intellectually sophisticated and worldly through cultivation or experience or disillusionment [ant: naiveness]

5. falsification by the use of sophistry; misleading by means of specious fallacies; "he practiced the art of sophistication upon reason"

[url=http://dictionary.reference.com/help/wn.html]WordNet[/url]


soph·ist n.

One skilled in elaborate and devious argumentation.

A scholar or thinker.

Sophist Any of a group of professional fifth-century B.C. Greek philosophers and teachers who speculated on theology, metaphysics, and the sciences, and who were later characterized by Plato as superficial manipulators of rhetoric and dialectic.

[url=http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4.html]American Heritage Dictionary[/url]


I know these are mean definitions, but they are why some Christians steer completely clear of 'sophisticated'; the commonest synonym would be [i]corrupt[/i].


Does this help you connect answers to your original questions?

sermonindex Feb 28, 2008


Hi Joe,

As long as you don't care about your cufflinks being sacrificed for God, it's not an issue for your personally.

But, there comes a time when you have to consider how far to go in presenting yourself as someone with more than or better than, someone else.

I'm not suggesting the brother was jealous, but, if he was, could you give him your cufflinks (for instance) and really want him to enjoy them instead of you? (I'm trying to think of a parallel in my own life...) That's just a thought to consider, as a kind of test of where your heart-values lie.

If God wants you to have a car, you'll know. You don't need a good job to have one either. You just need God to need you to have one. He has ways...

C
Compton Feb 28, 2008

Brother,

If you are in sales for a living, better keep your cufflinks and maybe get some nice clothes too. Whether you are in healthcare, financial services, retail, or commercial sectors, your clothing will be as important to your success as a tractor is to a farmer.

Your well-meaning brother was certainly sincere, but perhaps he just doesn't understand how to do your job. (Edit: Apparently whoever gifted you the cufflinks felt you could use them.) To some people maybe cufflinks are superflous, but for you, depending on your line of business, cufflinks could be basic equipment. Sales is about presentation, and that begins with how you present yourself. Dressing well, or at least appropriately, is a way you convey your credibility, not to mention your respect, to the people you are serving.

Blessings,

MC

sermonindex Feb 28, 2008

Hi Joe,

Was he being sarcastic about the cufflinks? It sounds kinda like sarcasm to me. Maybe he was just joking around. Is that possible? Did you feel kinda like you took a jab? If yes, than it sounds like your insecure about them. That just means in your mind you feel guilty about the cufflinks, (probably sub-conciously or maybe even conciously), because of some religious belief you have been indoctrinated with. I mean really, are cufflinks sinfull, theri just cufflinks for crying out loud. :-D If you let that bother you brother it wont stop there. Pretty soon youll feel guilty because your water is cleaner than the persons across the street.

M
Mangan Feb 28, 2008

Joe! The answer to your question is your hearts cravings. Mirror yourself in this passage from Scripture:

"Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For everything in the world - the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does comes not from the Father but from the world. The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives for ever.

So, Joe, is that man you?

What occupies your mind, your heart. What concerns you on a 24-hour basis? Well, that is your god and your service to him. Either the living God or an idol. Only your heart know the answer to that question.

Sincerely Magnus ;-)

sermonindex Feb 28, 2008

Hi Joe,
Wouldn't the answer to your question be..
as Jesus said `to first':`seek the kingdom of God
and his righteousness'.Wouldn't this mean to seek the King ( who is Jesus) every day...always and always haveing a ready-mind to do HIS WILL?
Being lead by His Spirit,then He will always
draw you by His Grace to whatever He wishes.
It may be to give up something or it may not.
We are called to be lead by His Spirit.
Loveingly,
Ebeth

C
Christinyou Feb 29, 2008

Did not all the Job had belong to God and it was pressed home to him and he knew when it was over, it is all God to begin with and what we receive is from Him, unless we covet something and want it over being concerned about our families and what it will do to them. The same goes for God, do we want something over what God wants for us?

Praise God for all that we have and us, all we have to the Glory of God. As mentioned already, be content in all circumstances and situations when it comes to stuff. Content in plenty or content in need.

Let it be the richness of the heart in Christ Jesus when it comes to all that we have and are. Then we will know exactly what to do in every situation and circumstance when it comes to our lives of abundance or need.

In Christ; Phillip

J
joeSOC Mar 2, 2008

Wow such an interesting variety of responses. Ok first things first the brother who did comment on the cufflinks is someone who is 1000000 times more spiritual than me. He has been through more persecution than I have in my life, He knows more about the cross than I do.
Secondly I do distinctively recalling an urge not to wear them that night. As a matter of fact as soon as the comment was made which was followed by a sweeping generalization, i decided to remove it {the cufflinks} but I was so offended i spend considerable time in tears, latter that night in a quite spot, where no one can see a big man crying.... I cried because i felt that I was so weak and got offended easily, and also crying that i did not understand how someone who is so spiritual can make a particular sweaping generalization {which i shall remain unmentioned}. I then recalled Paul agreeing with some generalizations made about cretans in Titus 1:10-13. Hence I dismissed the generalization part, as something that might hold some truth. My experiences would beg to differ.
See I don’t buy expensive things, people just give them to me. I did not ask for it honestly! My boss walked into my room one day and said this, “Me and my wife has been praying about this for sometime, we want you to have our car.” Look I gave the car away I am still without a car, and I love it.
Guys I just want to please Jesus, and redeem this sales profession if possible. Especially IT sales, I want to be light in a dark place. The one verse which really ministered to me was
Exodus 3:14 ... I am that I am
I noticed God does not derive his identity from what he does or what he wears or anything of that sort all though he could claim quite a bit to His list of things he has DONE !!!
Really my hearts desire is to be a disciple. Very difficult though !
As far as laying down the things of the world goes... Trust me when i graduated from my university I wanted to go to the mission field, then someone told me the marketplace is the mission field. And both my degrees would be used by God to take me to places to minister the Gospel to those who needed it. To my knowledge i have laid down everything except a few giants such as my ego, pride etc... I am told the Lord has a way of smashing such giants through rejections, humiliations etc And look all this is nothing compared to what some other brothers and sisters go through in life. I am over the cufflinks but now that I have read about what the brother wrote on sophistication, I will attempted to change my perspective on a few things. Thanks for that one, never knew it was that bad !
I honestly don’t think its about what I wear or don’t wear all though I do want to dress appropriately etc. I think the Lord is more interested in why I do what I do ? Your thoughts...

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