loveyouall
Mar 3, 2008
What do you think scripturally?
What do you think scripturally?
1 John 1:8, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
loveyouall asked
I noticed this kind of question crops up a lot from Calvinists, but I haven't followed enough of the threads on that topic to know where you stand brother, or if you even have an opinion on CalvinismIs any man able perfectly to keep the commandments of God?
This: that the moment a question is phrased so that it throws the gaze of the believer onto himself or another man, the battle is lost. Of course a man without Christ cannot keep the commandments of God perfectly; this is why those who hunger and thirst after righteousness come to Him, look to Him, seek only His face and sink themselves with joy into His death; for here is life eternal; here is the end of all striving; here is the power in which He desires to keep us free from all sin. Will we walk in the light? Will we take up the tools of our own death with the kind of desire with which He desired to die for us that we may be released from sin?
To answer your question:
John 9:31
Now we know that God heareth not sinners:
but if any man be a worshipper of God, [u]and doeth his will
Is any man able perfectly to keep the commandments of God?
No... thats why Christ died.
Krispy
Is any man able perfectly to keep the commandments of God?
I suppose the first question I need to ask is; what commandments are you referring to?
The Jews tells us by tradition that God first gave man 7 laws called the "noachide" or "noachain" laws. he then added the Decalogue (10 Commandments). Eventually the law would be codified into 613 laws from the Old Testament.
Jesus gave many 'commands'. I am not sure any ever codified them. But the basic law is the two great commandments. They simply say... "Thou shalt love..."
If we say man could not possibly have kept God commands we run the risk of charging God with over charging man. Yet, we need to understand the purpose of the Law to begin with. It was never meant to be a means by which salvation could come.
There are 613 laws oout of 613 , 365 negative and 248 is positive.
Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 3:12
And the law is not of faith:
Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Katy
248 is positive
It is interesting how sins of omission are so often neglecting in the study of holiness and righteousness.
Hi everybody,
Please allow me to post a reply to this thread.
I read this thread and I would like to point out what brother Robertw said:
Quote"""If we say man could not possibly have kept God commands we run the risk of charging God with over charging man. Yet, we need to understand the purpose of the Law to begin with. It was never meant to be a means by which salvation could come. """"
Absolutely spot on brother, If we say that God's law is too heavy or impossible for us, we are in fact saying that God is unfair and unjust.
Well the bible named a lot of people who were blameless before God.
Genesis 17:1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless.
Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was blameless and upright, and one who feared God and shunned evil.
Luke 1:5-6 a certain priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah. His wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
and the list goes on....
does it mean that they never sinned?
not at all, for we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, but somehow these men were considered blameless before God, and that is what I desire for my life....
Now this is how I see it:
Can the Law save you?
No, the law can simply condenm you, if you so choose to break it.
For scriptures says:
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Acts 4:12 "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."
Now we have declared that there is not other way for us to return to the father, except through the Son, Jesus Christ.
but One more thing has to be considered when we discuss our salvation.
John 14:15 " If you love Me, keep My commandments.
2 John 1:6 This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.
And Jesus goes on saying.
John 15:10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
Jesus clearly says that we will abide in His love only if we keep His commandments but before that He said, as I have kept my Father's commandments.
because Jesus kept the Father commandments, does it mean that I do not have to keep them anymore?
This is what Paul said:
1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.
John also said this....
1 John 5:2-3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
In revelation the bible tells us that the dragon will be after these people
Revelation 12:17 - 13:1 and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
These are the saints.
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
One thing that we have to be very sure about is this.
what are the commandments of God?
I have one question for you all.
why did God think to be important to show the Ark of the Covenant in the heveanly tabernacle?
why is the ark there? what is inside of it?
Please do not come back to me saying that the ark of the covenant where the ten commandments were put inside was just a copy. because we know that everything in the earthly tabernacle was a copy of the one in heaven, so I would be very safe to say that water was inside the ark here, was also a copy of the one in heaven.
so, the question remains.
Is God law (Ten commandments) still inside the ark in heaven?
could I call it the Law of God?
I will finish with the words of David.
Psalm 40:8 I delight to do Your will, O my God, And Your law is within my heart."
Psalm 119:34 Give me understanding, and I shall keep Your law; Indeed, I shall observe it with my whole heart.
Please understand that Jesus is my all in all, there is no salvation in any other name, we cannot come back to the Father except through Him, but I will abide in His love and keep His commandments.
For thy Law of God, if fair, good and just and I will delight in it....
....from the 'Old':
Deut.30: 11-15 [i]"For this commandment which I command you this day is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that you should say, `Who will go up for us to heaven, and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?' Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, `Who will go over the sea for us, and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?' But the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, so [b]that you can do it[b]life and good, death and evil
....and from the 'New':
Matthew 23: 1-3 [i]"Then said Jesus to the crowds and to his disciples, "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat; so [b]practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do
Blessings,
Stephen
(PS excellent post jayyou!)
Basically only
loveyouall wrote:
What do you think scripturally?
Only one [i]man
That's why He [i]had
Adam was created perfect, yet he failed. Even though perfect he apparently had no resistance to temptation, any more than Eve did.
Jesus is come as the second Adam to fulfil perfectly what no-one else could or can fulfil.
And if we receive Him He is able to fulfil the commandment in and through us, by the Spirit.
Blessings
Jeannette
AMEN!! Beautiful!
dorcas wrote:
Solely, I wish to make one comment.This: that the moment a question is phrased so that it throws the gaze of the believer onto himself or another man, the battle is lost. Of course a man without Christ cannot keep the commandments of God perfectly; this is why those who hunger and thirst after righteousness come to Him, look to Him, seek only His face and sink themselves with joy into His death; for here is life eternal; here is the end of all striving; here is the power in which He desires to keep us free from all sin. Will we walk in the light? Will we take up the tools of our own death with the kind of desire with which He desired to die for us that we may be released from sin?
And he was speaking about Jesus...To answer your question:John 9:31
Now we know that God heareth not sinners:
but if any man be a worshipper of God,[u]and doeth his will[/u] , him he heareth.
No... thats why Christ died.
KrispyKrittr wrote:Is any man able perfectly to keep the commandments of God?
Krispy
I suppose the first question I need to ask is; what commandments are you referring to?
RobertW wrote:Is any man able perfectly to keep the commandments of God?
Jesus gave many 'commands'. I am not sure any ever codified them. But the basic law is the two great commandments. They simply say... "Thou shalt love..."
When I started in care work, I soon realised that my [i]own
I had to "let go" my own merely human love and begin to learn to operate through HIS love.
I'm still learning!
Yes, we are on the same wavelength here. At least, if you mean what I think you mean!If we say man could not possibly have kept God commands we run the risk of charging God with over charging man. Yet, we need to understand the purpose of the Law to begin with. It was never meant to be a means by which salvation could come.
Thank you Robert
Blessings
Jeannette
1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.
Jayyou, I had to do a little homework here to see if you possibly didn't ADD to some scripture here.....****is what matters****.
1 Corinthians 7:
18Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.
19Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
20Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.
Added, One would think that those under Law are to stay under Law, and those under Grace are to stay under Grace.....Isn't that how this might be read....or is Paul talking about something else all together?
Galatians 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
I believe what really matters here is this.
In Christ we are a New Creation, and ONLY that New Creation can abide in Christ of which we know without Christ in us, no one is capable of keeping anything.
I do believe this is all of what Paul was saying in Philippians 3 when he said he lived by the Faith of Christ...no longer I but Christ In Me....
Establishing first Paul said I am Crucified with Christ....etc.
When these truths are put in it's proper place, our identification with Christ in death and resurrection life, raised up with Him New Creation, as we abide in Christ, HE is Keeping Us, and is able to keep all we commit unto Him.
We commit our lives a living sacrifice, Romans 12:1&2, called our reasonable service, and the Lord Transforms our minds.....something so above and beyond the Law and commandments. If it were as simple as keeping the Law of commandments...no such need for a transformed mind, a New heart, or a New Creature would be necessary.
HE is able to do then above and beyond ALL WE could possible ask or thing according to [u][i][b] His Power
Yes, with that New Heart, New Life of Christ in us...we delight to do thy will, and obey with a heart of love. We are being perfected in LOVE, not our love but HIS.
Katy
Thank you so much for quoting that! A familiar and favourite passage, yet the emphasised words struck me afresh.
Katy-did wrote:...Philippians 3:9
And be found in him,[i][b]not having mine own righteousness[/b] [/i] , which is of the law, but that which is[i][b]through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith[/b] [/i] :
That is the key to it! If I have [i][b]my own
Keeping the law, the Torah, [i]is
It [i]IS[i][b]the wrong sort of righteousness
There are two kinds of righteousness, not one!!! There is the kind that I do, which springs from self, and self-effort; and there is the kind that is by faith!
It's just hit me that those who say that God's Law, as expressed in the Torah, is still in some sense in force are right.
There [i]is[i]earthly[i][u][b]two
WOW, that's mind-blowing!!!
It isn't a question of which Law are we keeping, (or failing to keep!) but in [i][u]whose righteousness
Is it our own, or is it the Saviour's.
Hope that makes sense!
Jeannette
Deut.30: 11-15 "For this commandment which I command you this day is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that you should say, `Who will go up for us to heaven, and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?' Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, `Who will go over the sea for us, and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?' But the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it. "See, I have set before you this day life and good, death and evil."
Amazingly, if you see the way the Apostle Paul interprets that scripture in the light of the New Covenant (testament) he is actually talking about believing the Gospel. (Romans 10)
Old covenant of works - "Do this and you shall live!"
New and eternal covenant as revealed in Christ - He who has the Son, has life...!" (1 John 5:12)
And I agree with most others who have posted, that we our now saved unto obedience, but that (imperfect) obedience neither saves us, nor keeps us reconciled to God. There was only one Man who ever kept that Law of God completely... and we know His name...Jesus.
One Man:
And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals. Then I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, "Who is worthy to open the scroll and to loose its seals?" [b]And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll, or to look at it.[i]no one was found worthy[b]"Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals."
(Rev 5:1-5 NKJV)
What a beautifully coordinated thread that gives glory to Christ our righteousness without one hint or excuse for lawlessness.
Well done to all posters!
Clint
Luke 1:5-6 a certain priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah. His wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, [b]walking in ALL the commandments
This discussion is locked.