deltadom
Mar 7, 2008
I need scriptures and quotes telling what the emergant church says and what the bible says?
I need all the information I can get?
I need scriptures and quotes telling what the emergant church says and what the bible says?
I need all the information I can get?
My first reaction to your question is "exactly what doctrine do you want to confront?" Then John 14:6 came to my mind. Jesus says, "I am the Way, the TRUTH and the LIFE, no man cometh to the Father but BY ME." Analyze that for a moment.
Jesus is:
1. The Way....none other.
2. The TRUTH...truth is NOT relative, it is absolute.
3. The LIFE....
And if you want to learn all these things in detail you need to study the life of this man Jesus.
Simple, but few want to do it because they will have to surrender some pet theories, I am afraid.
Blessings,
ginnyrose
go to this website.[url=http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/]http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/
you can look up just about anything about false doctrine and articles.
You might browse through some of these articles on:
Don't know if this will help Dom. Hoped so.
I need specific things on Doctrinal Quetstions such as Heaven and Hell not just quotes! or articles.
I am dealing with people who think that I am taking the emergant church people out of context, I need prayer that god will convict them!! it is on a worship site!
Emergent is not a denomination; nor is it an affiliation of churches on the basis of shared theological commitments. Emergent is a clearing-house for a conversation, an affiliation of friends who, whether as individuals or churches or groups or publishers, want to communicate with one another and explore a vast array of practices and theological concepts.
It's whatever tickles the ears these days!
Katy
It is sometimes useful to compare the emerging church movement with other Christian movements, which emphasize a similar approach to Christianity and inner experience.
The Taizé Community in France parallels the emergent experience in many ways. Traditional symbols in this community such as candles and crosses have intensified importance in creating subjective feelings. Taizé places a greater emphasis on meditation and the experiences derived from the monastic life than they do upon Scripture. They also embrace a religious pluralism that discards notions of eternal judgment. Within the wider Emerging Church there is a growing exploration of a similar kind of monasticism, known as new-monasticism.
Communities such as "Moot" in the UK and "COTA" in the US are examples.
The Religious Society of Friends, although not born from a conflict with modernism, has nonetheless influenced the emerging church movement through mystics such as Richard Foster.
This influence is often seen in the mystical tendencies of emergent worship and devotion.
Some emerging churches mirror the Quaker rejection of church hierarchy while valuing the sacred as a personal, subjective experience, others utilize their particular denominational structures for church leadership.
The house church movement, which has been partly influenced by the Jesus Movement of the 1960s and 70s, is considered to be a “cousin” of the emerging church movement because of its lack of structure. Most of these house churches, however, are quite different from those in the emerging church movement as they are conservative in their theology and structure.
All four of these groups seek fellowship with likeminded groups and value some subjective traditions and experiences. The emerging church movement stands out by its postmodernism as well as its pluralistic dialog with the surrounding culture.
The emergent methodology which relies upon community activism before propositional evangelism has been advocated by many liberal theologians who find propositional evangelism to be a form of arrogant "theological colonialism."
These theologians tend to reduce the Christian mission to an effort to create a more just world (often through socialism) that is environmentally responsible. In 1917 Walter Rauschenbusch presented a lengthy rationale for this approach to Christian mission in his book A Theology for the Social Gospel.
Theologically, the emerging church movement bears many striking similarities to the theology of neo-evangelical Christians such as Langdon Gilkey and David Tracy, shares many beliefs with the more liberal post-Vatican II Catholic theologians such as Karl Rahner, and can trace much of its roots to the teachings of "postliberals" such as George Lindbeck.
In many ways emergent thought resembles that of the iconoclastic Stanley Hauerwas. Eschatology in the movement closely resembles that found in theologians such as Jürgen Moltmann who advocate the "theology of hope."
The emergent approach to interfaith dialogue is similar to earlier discussions of this kind of dialogue as found in authors such as John Hick as well as the "federalist/universalist" approach to pluralistic theology of Ninian Smart.
Some emergent thinkers have also been deeply influenced by postliberal authors such as Walter Brueggemann and Lesslie Newbigin. Newbigin, especially, along with fellow missiologist David Bosch, offers alternatively nuanced understandings of dialogue which, nevertheless, do embrace a relativistic epistemology.
Emergent ecclesiology is reminiscent of the "religionless Christianity" proposed by some twentieth century thinkers. NT Wright's eschatology, missiology and ecclesiology have also influenced emerging church theology.
Hope this helps.
Katy
[url=http://www.carm.org/emerging.htm]Here's some stuff by CARM
Also, a lecture by Mark Driscoll as someone who's "been there, done that" [url=http://www.sebts.edu/chapel/getFile.cfm?FileID=396&Download=true]Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary Convergence Conference
If you want a passage of scripture that you can use to refute experience-oriented belief and subjective interpretation of scripture that the emergent "church" is putting forward, try 2 Peter 1:17-20
17For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,"
18we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain.
19And we have something more sure, the prophetic word, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts,
20knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation.
21For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
This shows how Diverse this thing is - http://www.faithhousemanhattan.org/faith_house/endorsements.html
[url=http://www.inthenameofpurpose.org/page2.html]On-line book - "In the name of Purpose"
http://www.understandthetimes.org/
[b]The Collapse Of The Emerging Church And The Kingdom Of God
Comment From Understand The Times:
Expect to see another new wave of deception on the spiritual horizon. A concealed iceberg is about to surface. [See [url=http://blog.beliefnet.com/godspolitics/2008/01/in-search-of-a-label-by-brian.html]BeliefNet Article]
In the upcoming campaign for a new American president, a coalition of pastors heading up social gospel megachurches, Dominionist Pentecostals, Reconstructionists, and naive Evangelicals will surface planning to take the "kingdom" for Jesus.
These enthusiastic leaders lack spiritual discernment and have no concept of the nearness of the coming of Jesus Christ. They are being drawn into the idea of building the "Kingdom of God" so that Christ can return to a converted earth at some future time.
Similar to Rick Warren's "Purpose Driven" Christianity, the social gospel will be in the forefront for this new alliance of kingdom builders. Those opposing such a view will be considered "narrow-minded," "old-fashioned," "crackpots" who spend more time thinking about the "rapture" than they do about doing good unto others.
Also, I believe we can expect to see the emerging church movement fragmenting and polarizing. A few leaders who have been duped by emergent leaders will see the light and withdraw- others of course, will not. Those who continue down the emerging path will become the pied-pipers of the social gospel program that leads the unsuspecting further towards Rome and Babylon.
The following two items will help you to see what is coming.
The Great Awakening
http://www.powells.com/biblio/9780060558291?&PID=29218
The Collapse of the Emerging Church
http://www.emergentvillage.com/weblog/2008-and-the-collapse-of-the-emerging-church
Anne! WOW Thanks for that. It is explaining even more of what we are talking about on another thread!
All these are working hand in hand for one goal....anti-christ!
Thanks Anne!
Katy
Katy, reading one of those blogs, a quote seemed to really wrap it up.
Quote:
[i]"Andy Moore in the UK predicts, “The phrase Emerging Church will only be used by people who are attacking it, allowing the good work of individual churches to continue under the radar, while really confusing irate Reformed Evangelicals.”
Now why he said "reformed" I don't know - but this quote just shows to go ya.
I know "fundamentalist" is a bad word now. Maybe he was just afraid to use that one?
Did you read some of the replies to those blogs though ?
Wow. Second from the bottom of the belief-net site, there was quite a reply by a "teresa" and then the very last one by "leah", mamamia.
Amazing the responses they get, but that's the way they operate, intentionally. Is by basically "polling" for opinions, moods, perspectives, feelings and working upon those or [i]with them
Brother dbm posted a good article from a Business website, that said basically - that businesses should learn how to conduct business from the Mega-Church leaders.
Maybe we could find that article. It was very good.
Lord Bless!
I need prayer that I will get through these hard headed! I feel like I am trying to hit my head against a brick wall as they say every time I take a statement it is out of context or some other comment it is so frustrating.
If I were warning people about a fire, and said there is a tsunami heading this way, please run else you may die they may end up taking notice
I know we are headed it is just its prevelance, it is frustrating to try and debate!
To people who do not know their bible! and think that I am even taking the bible out of context.
Art Katz says that "Is something that peports to be christ and imitates christ but is not"
A fake note is much more dangerous! Because it looks like the real thing but yet it is not and degrades the actual currency.
The thing I do not like about this movement is so commen and in every shop round the country on mass. You can pick up these books and there always on offer.
Billy Sunday said that half truths are dangerous as you do not know which half you will get!
If Jesus turned up for one minute this movement would be history!
Sympathies all the way around brother.
I figure His "sheep hear His voice and won't follow another" - so rather than debate - just keep speaking His Word/Truth, and if they're really His Sheep - they'll hear you.
Maybe not right away. Maybe during the coming storm... but His Word never goes out Void.
You may not see the fruit of what Truths you spoke, but keep watering and the LORD will bring it back to their remembrance when the bottom falls out.
GOD BLESS you !
intercssr83 said:
home
Re:
Here's some stuff by CARM (Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry) that should provide a thorough overview including doctrines, profiles and quotes from those prominent in the movement.
Also, a lecture by Mark Driscoll as someone who's "been there, done that" Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary Convergence Conference
Checked out these-Great stuff to use to tear down these heresies
Two books are good "Becoming conversant with the Emergent Church" by D.A Carson
and "Faith Undone" by Roger Oakland
However I really was blessed by the Mark Driscoll teaching as someone that was immersed in the emergent community saw it was wrong and talks about it to expose it and now He's a solid radical reformed Pastor who wont fit in there molds-This guy is the bomb!,He's definitely not for everyone due to the language he uses to reach the unchurched,But I love this guy He loves Jesus and thats it,None of the Emergent bologna-Decide for yourself and There are many sourses out there to give disernment :-)
Did you read some of the replies to those blogs though ?
Anne, Yes I did. Great link.
It all boils down to 2 Timothy Chapter 3...having a form of Godliness, but denying the Power...[u]from such turn away
Denying the Power is denying the Deity of Christ, and the Blood of the Cross. To us who are saved
[u]it is the power of God
The Cross will always be an offence, and from the time of Cain, people have been trying to climb over some other way.
It's all Babel-bolognea!!!!
And yes, I do believe he is using the word Reformed in the same sense as fundamental.
Any Gospel that does not preach SIN, The Cross, and the Blood is a false Gospel...period.
But over time we have changed SIN into:
1. Being emotionally challenged or 2. Diseases
of which we need some 12 step program to overcome.
((has infiltrated many churches over time))
So this infestation of psycho-babel in one form or fashion has been feeding this invisible monster for quite sometime.
Revelation says...Who can fight against it?
Well, we know the wrath of God is coming on all who have rejected the Gospel. AND we know according to Paul, there is only ONE Gospel, and all others are accursed!
Katy
Quote: "But over time we have changed SIN into:
1. Being emotionally challenged or 2. Diseases
of which we need some 12 step program to overcome.
((has infiltrated many churches over time))
So this infestation of psycho-babel in one form or fashion has been feeding this invisible monster for quite sometime."
Katy, this is so true. This has crossed my mind this year more than ever.
Psychology robs The Lord of His Glory, involvement and sovereignty in our lives.
They want you to focus on self and the LORD heals more when we don't at all.
Thank you for your thought provoking replies.
LORD Bless you Sis.
No doubt that the Emergent Church is liken unto a lamb but when it speaks it speaks like a dragon. A lamb is sweet and lovable, follows you where ever you go. When you hold a new born baby in your arms you see how wonderful he is, yet in that little body is all the capabilities of sin waiting to be explored. The Emergent Church is really no different than unregenerate man. He seeks to please God through his own works. It's Cain and Abel all over again.
Hi Katy_did…
It all boils down to 2 Timothy Chapter 3...having a form of Godliness, but denying the Power...from such turn away.Denying the Power is denying the Deity of Christ, and the Blood of the Cross. To us who are saved
it is the power of God.
The Cross will always be an offence, and from the time of Cain, people have been trying to climb over some other way.
It's all Babel-bolognea!!!!
And yes, I do believe he is using the word Reformed in the same sense as fundamental.
Any Gospel that does not preach SIN, The Cross, and the Blood is a false Gospel...period.
But over time we have changed SIN into:
1. Being emotionally challenged or 2. Diseases
of which we need some 12 step program to overcome.
((has infiltrated many churches over time))So this infestation of psycho-babel in one form or fashion has been feeding this invisible monster for quite sometime.
I once attended a large Assembly of God congregation that slowly morphed from a classical Pentecostal Church (with an emphasis on holiness) into a modern day “charismania” congregation. A very unhealthy emphasis in the supernatural and the prosperity message caused the congregation to change into one of these modern “seeker” congregations. They stopped preaching against sin or for the need of repentance and a real relationship with Christ. They simply used all sorts of fleshly methods and gimmicks to get people into the doors (including turkey giveaways, door prizes, concerts and plays). The ultimate goal (or “mission”) of the Church was simply to grow into a large, involved congregation. They even began to preach that it doesn’t matter what a person believes – as long as they are sincere. The worship was transformed into a concert – complete with auditions, professional CD sales and “dance teams.”
The ironic thing is that many – including man of the leaders of the church – didn’t see any sort of “change.” But this change was quite dramatic – even to people in the world. Most of the older and long term people left the congregation. The pastor would excuse the simplicity of his sermons as “milk” because of his very young congregation (without realizing that most left because of the milk and worldliness). People who questioned the direction of the Church were dismissed as having a “religious spirit.” Wild flamboyant preachers (who claimed supernatural stories) replaced the simple preaching of the Word of God. The once vibrant Sunday school attendance dropped to near-nothing, and the prayer meeting was rejected because of “religiosity.” Yet some of those most involved claimed that the congregation was experiencing a “revival of early Church liberty.” They were unconcerned about the lack of knowledge within the congregation or that the average duration of attendance for each member dropped to less than two years. As long as the number in attendance on Sunday morning was growing, the leaders were pleased.
I feel that many of the “emergent” people feel that they do proclaim the blood of Jesus. In word, they may even teach that the blood of Jesus is necessary for salvation. However, their idea of what the blood of Jesus means is very different from our own. They may teach about the cross – but their definition (again) is very different from ours. The big difference might lie within the teaching of personal responsibility. Do such preachers teach that a person must “flee from the wrath to come?” Do they teach that we must work out our own salvation “with fear and trembling?” Do they teach that we must repent of everything – the good, the bad and the ugly – in order to truly know the heart and salvation of God? Do they teach that we must HATE the things of this world?
Sadly, I find it extremely difficult to talk to many modern believers. Often, they become familiar with Christianity only as it is presented by the modern Church system. They often use rhetoric about the faith without truly understanding what they are saying. But what do we expect? Most of the shepherds of this movement don’t care about how many sheep make it to the Chief Shepherd’s fold (although they probably believe that they do). All that they really care about is having a nice, growing and involved flock of their own. These “career pastors” hardly resemble the Shepherd who would leave the fold to rescue a single lamb from the mouth of a lion. But if you were to ask them, they will claim that they believe the same as we do. They only feel that the administration of their methods is different.
As for Scriptural passages that would directly speak against the "Emergent" movement -- I think that it is difficult to do. The Emergent Church simply goes against the heart of what is taught in the New Testament. Thus, I would recommend to those who are caught in it (or other cultish beliefs) to simply read the entire New Testament through -- while forgetting the commentary regarding things that they have been taught.
:-)
Hi Chris,
As I read your story here, it brought back s many moments for me seeing things over the years disintegrate within Churches I have attended.
I wise man once said..It’s not that you believe in the Blood, or the Cross, [u][i]it's what you believe ABOUT the Blood and the Cross
I didn't understand the depth of that comment until I began hearing some really strange doctrines concerning these things.
Satan has SOOOOOOO corrupted the truth, taking the Gifts for example and corrupting those where people are so afraid to even talk about Gifts for fear of being categorized with the apostate side of things.
I wonder sometimes if we haven't played a part in this departure. When I was Born Again, I attended a ($%$#&&^)Church. In that particular Church and many like it, you just didn't talk about the Holy Spirit. They were so paranoid about being categorized as charismatic, saying NONE of the Gifts were in operation today.
My thing, being then a Baby Christian was that it wasn't so much the Gifts I was testifying to but the GIFT itself, being Born Again, born of the Spirit.
I was given the third degree..."Do you speak in tongues???" and having, I'll never forget, a finger pointed right at me with anger in the eyes (((right from the pulpit))....."The Holy Spirit ONLY comes on you when you are witnessing.....and ONLY then".
Being a Born Again Jew didn't go over well either, as God didn't save Jews.
So with threatening phone calls in the middle of the night when my husband was out of town, or having swastikas painted on my garage door and mailbox...you can say...I had been Baptized in the Fiery Trials the Lord said was a TOKEN of my salvation. ( Not only do I live in the Bible Belt, I also live in the Klan belt too...as they ALSO go to Church)
((Oh but they preached the Blood and the Cross too.))
Scary huh!
And who said there is no persecution in America? Oh we may not be thrown in prison, or murdered and killed for our faith, but we do become obedient unto death, as New Life springs forth in us. Not only so, but New Life also springs forth around us through our obedience.
The Church..The True Church is alive today, in the midst of all this apostasy. The Saints of God ARE suffering here and now in ways no one really knows or sees.
We are called to these things, and for this momentary time of suffering will be nothing compared to the Glory that has been prepared for those who are His.
Love in Christ
Katy
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