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How would your co-workers describe you?

sermonindex Mar 16, 2008

I would like each of us to take a few minutes to look at our lives. The question is, are you known by the world for what you stand for or for what you will not stand for?

Do you have a whole list of things that you object to? Is that what you are known for? Your strong stance on abortion, your insistence upon the 10 Commandments being allowed to stay in the public domain, your objections to the Homosexual agenda, your dislike and distrust of Liberals or Democrats, your dislike of present day immorality?

If the world could comment on you, would it be that you are strong on all these points? Is that what your co-workers, friends and family know about you, that you stand against all of these social and moral issues? Do you count yourself as one who lives under Gods law and is guided by it?

Mat 22:37 Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.

If you know the 10 Commandments, you will know that what Jesus just said is not the first and second commandments of the "Decalogue," or the ten commandments.
So let me ask you, are you under the Law, do you "live by the Law?" Romans 5:20 states that "Moreover the Law entered that the offense might abound." So we see that purpose of the Law was to expose sin, to magnify it, to point us towards Jesus , so that when Jesus came, He fulfilled the Law.

So, if the Law brings condemnation, how can we live by it or be under it? If Jesus did not come to condemn but to seek and to save what is lost, then why do we , as Christians, spend so much our time trying to expose the sin of the world, were we called to that? When we stand up and are counted today, when we let the world know, in no uncertain terms what we will not stand for, is this the role we were called to?

Are we called to be the ten commandments to the world? If the Law exposes and magnifies sin, if sin takes advantage of the Law and magnifies itself, then should we promote the Law to the world? Or should we endevor to seek and to save the lost.

When we love the world, when we seek to be an advocate of mercy, then as a by-product their sin is exposed by themselves. When sin encounters love it is defeated, when sin encounters judgment it is increased. By the very rebellious nature of humanity, when it is told not to do something or that it should not do something, then that is exactly what it wants to do all the more, anyone with children will easily appreciate this principal.

So we see how dangerous the rise of self-righteousness would be because of this principal, then society would suffer even more sin as it is condemned. So those who seek to condemn the world and expose the worlds sin are not operating in the "Royal Law," the law of Jesus ,for He called us to love God with all of our hearts and love the world with the same love.

My oldest son is now 24.And, to say the least, was a rebellious child for the better part of ten years. He has caused his mother and I great heartache and grief over those years, not to mention anger. Looking back I see three landmarks from the Lord, instructions to me. The first was when Christopher was about sixteen.

The Lord asked me this question and never answered the question “What would have happened if the prodigal father had not allowed the prodigal son to leave?” The next instruction came when he was about eighteen after a few years of me telling my son exactly what he was, and what his actions would bring about(and every one of my “predictions,” came to pass) The Lord commanded me to stop telling Christopher how wrong he was and how bad his actions were, He summed it up by saying this to me “Speak life into your son.”

Then a couple of years ago He laid it on my heart to apologize to Christopher for the way I raised him. I smarted at this instruction , my argument to the Lord was “but Lord,” reminding the Lord of all the things Christopher had done wrong, but the Lord remained silent and the Holy Spirit continued to lay on my heart to apologize to him. As I looked over my fatherhood, I realized that if I had to defend myself that I could make a compelling argument to anyone, what I could not defend was the contempt that I had had for my son.

I had not been very Christ like towards him. Yes, I had stood upon the rules, but where had the mercy been? Do not get me wrong, Christopher saw moments of mercy(otherwise he would not have survived to tell the story:) but the overall context of my relationship with Christopher was one of conflict and contempt.

Then I read about a Christian man in a book. He talked about apologizing to his son for the mistakes he had made. He talked about how that if he did not apologize, he would be binding his son, imprisoning his son to his own sin. I had never thought about it that way. As I realized that I could be playing a part in my own sons captivity, then there was now no question, I would have to apologize. I found this tremendously difficult to even contemplate.

I shared with a brother what I was contemplating one Monday evening. I asked him to ask me the following week if I had followed through, creating accountability for myself. Well the following week turned out to be the week from hell. There was a spiritual battle going on and by the following Sunday I still had not apologized. At 9.20 on Sunday evening I took my son aside and asked him to sit down.

I told him that I was deeply sorry for the way I had raised him and asked for his forgiveness. Before I could even finish what I was saying he interrupted me and told me how good a father I had been and that it was him that had caused the trouble and the anger. This was the first time in my sons life that he had taken responsibility for his actions. These are the words that I had tried to make him say for ten years with angry accusations and telling him the “truth." And here it all came out because the Lord had humbled me and had made me look at my role, not his.

In the following weeks my son started making lists of things he had to get done and getting them done, a remarkable turnaround. We have spoken on the phone, just to speak, not because he was in trouble, or needed bailing out or needed money. This principal of humility , of love, of focusing on ourselves rather than on the sins of others is of course a powerful principal of Christianity.

Many Christians understand this principal and it is operating in their homes. Yet how does it convey itself to the world. In an obvious paraphrase of my own, Jesus says “So you love those who love you ?, Big deal, even the sinners do this, but how much do you love those who hate you and would treat you badly?”

So many Christians believe , rightly, that we are Justified, saved, by Grace through faith. But so many Christians believe that we are sanctified (set apart, made Holy) by keeping the rules, following the Ten Commandments, by what we do not do. Paul says in Galatians 3

“ O foolish Galatians, who bewitched you not to obey the truth, to whom before your eyes Jesus Christ was written among you crucified?
Gal 3:2 This only I would learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, do you now perfect yourself in the flesh?
Gal 3:4 Did you suffer so many things in vain, if indeed it is even in vain?

If indeed our own Christianity is not measured by how well we keep the Ten Commandments, and it is not measured by what we do not do, if indeed it is measured by our love for the world (Homosexuals, people who agree with abortion, Democrats, Liberals , the vilest sinners ect) then how do you measure up?

Do you stand up and condemn the world, tell it how bad it is, shrink from it, fear it , demonize it for political advantage, have bitterness towards it. If Love for the world was a crime, would there be enough evidence to convict you? Do you throw your lot in with those who hate and fear the world, with those who use their position to condemn the world ? Do you find yourself on the Pharisee side with rocks in your hands? As the world looks on, does it see you as part of a baying crowd ready to condemn and destroy?

So I ask you brothers and sisters, does your Christianity consist of the fact that you “are not like them.” When you stand up to be counted in the world, the workplace, are you standing up for love, is that how they know you? Or do they know you by the rocks in your hands ? Are you a part of the Pharisee crowd or the lonely Jesus? Will Jesus have to ask you the question “Are you without sin?” Before we throw our rocks at the world (urged on by politicians seeking re-election) let us look to ourselves so that we may humble ourselves and not have to be humbled by a loving God………………………………......Frank

http://scottishwarriors.wordpress.com

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MattChenier Mar 16, 2008

Many of these things are points that I agree we should consider more often. I myself have often been guilty of these very things. I think also that this is not a small matter. As it may very well be the difference between our evangelism making a positive or negative difference.

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repentcanada Mar 16, 2008

Have you ever listened to "Hell's Best Kept Secret" by Ray Comfort? It is found to your immediate left (on this very page) and you can listen to it or watch it. Some of this article is biblically incorrect.

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repentcanada Mar 16, 2008

Actually, If I can, I would recommend every on Sermon Index to listen to Mark Cahill's "Being a Light in A Dark World" - https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=439. I know most of you will ignore this, but maybe a few will take the time to be enouraged by this message.

sermonindex Mar 16, 2008

Repentcanada write "Some of this article is biblical incorrect." Of course, I would beg to differ:)...............Frank


http://scottishwarriors.wordpress.com

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repentcanada Mar 16, 2008

this is not truth,

"So, if the Law brings condemnation, how can we live by it or be under it? If Jesus did not come to condemn but to seek and to save what is lost, then why do we , as Christians, spend so much our time trying to expose the sin of the world, were we called to that? When we stand up and are counted today, when we let the world know, in no uncertain terms what we will not stand for, is this the role we were called to?"


Romans says how they they hear without a preacher. The Law of the LORD is perfect converting the soul. The Holy Spirit does a work on ones heart when they are shown their need of a Saviour when their exceedingly wicked, sinful heart is shown to them through the CORRECT use of God's Ten Commandments.

Brother Frank have you listened to Hell's Best Kept Secret or Cahill's "Being a Light in a Dark World"?

sermonindex Mar 17, 2008

Romans 10:9-10 (KJV)
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 10:11-12 (KJV)
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Romans 10:13-14 (KJV)
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Romans 10:15 (KJV)
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

The Scripture that you quoted my friend has nothing to do with the 10 commandments, other that to confirm that Jesus was the end of the Law. (and thats a whole other debate)

Can I ask a question, the lady that was thrown down at the Lords feet, what saved her? Did the Law save her? Surely the Law was about to act, with rocks? Or, did the proximity of Jesus save her? At Jesus'feet she did not find condemnation, although I guarantee you that she felt intense conviction. This is the message that we bring, that if you come to Him, despite the fact that you are sinners, just as you are, then you can be saved. This is a beautiful loved filled, truth filled message. So different from the message that your all gonna burn in hell if you do not come forward and get your fire insurance. I will grant you this, that in the presence of Jesus , through the Holy Spirit, conviction can be great and overwhelming. You see, its always about the Spirit, and it is always about love, and when you combine truth with Love you have the power of the Holy Spirit. ........Frank http://scottishwarriors.wordpress.com

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repentcanada Mar 17, 2008

Brother, I plead with you to listen to those sermons listed. I really do.

sermonindex Mar 17, 2008

Brother, if it is not sister. I appreciate your passion for those from whom you receive teaching, but what does the Holy Spirit tell you when you sit at His feet? I do not say this to cast any doubt upon these men that you say I should listen to, and indeed I have no problem listening to them. Yet why would what they say be any more convincing to me that what you say?

Can I say that I have heard a thousand sermons and been moved by a great many of them. This continent does not need more learned men, it needs more men who spend time with the Holy Spirit , who indeed will lead and guide all men into Truth.

This is a time of personalities, that time is coming to an end. Let men and woman come into the presence of the Lord themsleves and be taught by Him. One minute in His presence, one Scripture illuminated in the hearts of men and woman directly by the Holy Spirit, is worth a lifetime of sermons and tapes. God bless you brother or sister, He stands at the door and knocks............Frank

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MattChenier Mar 17, 2008

I do agree with repentcanada on the parts he is arguing. The bible says in Ephesians that "whatsoever is reproved is brought to the light, for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. To reprove basically means to bring to the surface, or light. The bible says we are supposed to be the light of the world. How can we be light if we don't reprove sin. This doesn't however mean judge and condemn people. The difference in America is that the average person knows what is wrong, they just don't obey it. So cramming the 10 commandments down their throat after they already feel guilty is only going to harden them.

The bible also says not to have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. And, the book of Jude says, "and of some have compassion making a difference, and others save by fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh." So even fear is a proper tool for converting souls, as long as it is done in love.

I must say on the lines of Ray Comforts style of evangelism. He does well. But lets sum up the 10 commandments... Love. Ok. So setting the perfect example of loving god and others will bring conviction of not only the ten commandments, but all the law and all the prophets which hang on these two commandments. So Love is perfect converting the soul. Amen?

My former pastor was really big on balance in Christianity. I think that there is a perfect balance to this dispute.

sermonindex Mar 17, 2008

Hi Matt, first of all I have no , nor is there any dispute with repentcanada. We are discussing a point in which we differ.

You say that you agree with repentcanada and then proceed to partially make my point. As for the Scriptures that you partially quoted, you must know that they are written to those who consider themselves to be part of the Church, this is very different from those of thr world. There is one way of dealing with those who claim to to be and are members of our churches, and another for those of the world. You have co-mingled them Matt. In Jude we are taught to make a distintion between those who are weak and those who are wilful. When we have discerned that, then we know how to move forward. We are not to have fellowship with those who claim to be saints yet live boldy as sinners. This has nothing to do with the world. For as we know, God so loved the world..........Did Jesus cut Himself of from the world? Did Jesus only walk with the "saints?" Where was it Jesus was to be found? Amangst those who "were not sick?"

The world must know us by our love. It is this love that brings conviction, in this there is balance. We love, the Holy Spirit convicts.We do not condemn, we seek to save the lost. We do our part, the Holy Spirit does His work.

Now, if you rightly quote Jude and are talking about how we should deal with those who are amongst us, in our churches, then I would agree with you Matt. Recognize the weak amongst us and reprove them with love, recognize the wilful and remind them of the fate that awaits them, if they continue on their path then put them out.
I have a question Matt, how many people did your former Pastor ask to leave his church because of their conduct? Yes, balance in everything...........Frank http://scottishwarriors.wordpress.com

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notmyown Mar 17, 2008

So I take it you didnt bother listening to the articles suggested then?

I too, cant quite tie together some of the things you have said.

Without the commandments there would be no knowledge of sin. What did Jesus say - that He came not to do away with the commandments but to fulfil them. Numerous times we are told to keep the commandments. Am I legalistic and unloving therefore?

I'm confused by this article to a certain extent - is there an adjenda I dont know about?

sermonindex Mar 17, 2008

Your right, I did not listen to the tapes or sermons cited :) Not because I have any problem doing that, more because of time. I would say that we ahve been called to be workmen in regard to the Word and we should know the Word and always be ready to give an answer for what we believe. I would rather hear what repentcanada has to say, with quotes to back it up would be fine. As for an agenda :) Not sure what to say to that :) Yes, I guess I do. My agenda would be the downfall of self-righteousness, a moving of God,s people into His presence, and an outpouring of genuine Biblical love that would rock the world.

As for the question in regard to commandments and keeping them(I would rather categorize it as being under the law or not) That is a big subject and you can do your own research on that notmyown :) I suggest that you focus on Hebrews, you will find the answer in that book. For a clue as to where I stand, I would say that not only are we justified by faith, we are also sanctified by faith.........Frank

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notmyown Mar 17, 2008

Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth -Jn 17:17

Claim it by faith all you want but its only through the Word and obedience to it that sanctification comes.

I am not doubting your sincerity but I'm tired of hearing of prophetic words and those who 'God' speaks to so clearly in visions and yet I see no lasting fruit. I'm sick of people hearing things in their head and claiming God has spoken yet it doesnt sit right with the scriptures. Not necessarily having a go at you by the way.

What part of Hebrews do you refer to that confirms the commandments are of no value?

Go listen to Keith Daniels if you want to hear a man of God. There a number others speakers who have blessed me too but too many are trying to make some unique statement at the expense of the teaching of the word and I've yet to hear a decent message, based on a vision or dream, which has spoken to my life.

If it sounds like I'm a bit dispondant well yes, maybe I am but I'm sick of opinions and sick of self-righteousness and sick of powerlessness which I find all around me.

Where are the Holy men of God who are sickened by the world, who hate the sin of men, who cry to God for revival and preach an uncompromising message for repentance and righteousness? Very few in my part of the world!!

sermonindex Mar 17, 2008

Hi notmyown you wrote

"I am not doubting your sincerity but I'm tired of hearing of prophetic words and those who 'God' speaks to so clearly in visions and yet I see no lasting fruit. I'm sick of people hearing things in their head and claiming God has spoken yet it doesnt sit right with the scriptures."

I have to be honest, I have no idea what you are talking about. Perhaps you have this thread mixed up with another. Have you actually read this post? There are no prophetic words in this post???????

The point I was trying to make to repencanada is that he should have his own opinion based on his own study of the word instead of always getting teachings from tapes and sermons and other peoples opinions. Now you tell me to go and listen to Keith Daniels for some reason(I have and I liked what I heard) The point of me not telling you where in Hebrews is that you would study yourself.

So :) Here is what I am tired of, lazy Christians who do not take the time to study the Word(I am not saying that is you) but get all there teaching through others, TV, radio ect. So again I would say, if you want to know what the Scriptures say about the Law and how it relates to Christians, read and study the book of Hebrews. Nothing whacky about that, just a sign of a Berean...............Frank

PS. my sanctification is by faith(Please read the book of Galatians, not a big book:)

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notmyown Mar 17, 2008

I know what I believe -I just wondered how you ended up discounting the Law when my studies do not allow me to do that.

The prophesying comments more relate to parts of your web link.

Anyway. I'm not on form for debates - seen enough of them on here and bible I read relates well to what other men of God say (like Keith Daniels) that the law is not done away with but through Christ we can fulfill the law in our lives.

Sanctification comes by faith? Yes and faith comes from hearing the word of God :) All boils down to obedience to the word.

sermonindex Mar 17, 2008

Ok notmyown, just keeping it real...you wrote........"The prophesying comments more relate to parts of your web link." If that is the case :) Then I assume you are saying that I have no fruit? Or some how I am a "name it and claim it," which of course I am not. Anyway, all personal judging aside you made this comment "but through Christ we can fulfill the law in our lives."

I would simply say that if one is a genuine Christian, then it would be past tense and not furure tense, meaning that if you are in Christ then the Law is fulfilled, and to use the word from Hebrews, "annulled." I am no longer operating under the Law, but through the Holy Spirit. Is this a license to sin? As Paul says, "God forbid." Only a religious person could ever make the charge that this would be a licence to sin.(and I am not talking about you brother, unless you make the charge :)

Finally you write "Sanctification comes by faith? Yes and faith comes from hearing the word of God :) All boils down to obedience to the word."

Faith for sanctification does not come down to hearing the word brother. If faith came down to hearing the word then the churches would be full of gloriously sanctified people, which I would say that it is not. Faith comes through the Spirit of God, to a yielded, surrendered soul ,and the Holy Spirit illuminates the word. The key element is the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit we have Pharisees, experts in the word, tithe mint and cumin, but inside full of dead mens bones. So, no presence of God, we end up with religious people who are doomed to fail, no matter how hard they try and how much they want to be obedient, we end up with a Romans 7 situation. They might be very nice religious people, very morally minded and upstanding memebers of society, good members of the church, yet outside of His presence that is all they will ever be. It is to those who walk after the Spirit is the promise made.

Romans 8:1-2 (KJV)
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Romans 8:3-4 (KJV)
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:5-6 (KJV)
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Romans 8:7-8 (KJV)
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

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notmyown Mar 17, 2008

I agree with all you said in your last post brother.

sermonindex Mar 17, 2008

:-) notmyown. That makes me nervous :-) ..............Frank

PS If you find anything that you believe to be unbiblical on my website, please do not hesitate to let me know. Jesus is my life, and I stand upon the Word of God. And while the Lord does speak to me :-) That does not put me in a camp that I think you may be referring to, and if I am right, i imagine that we both totally agree on that subject.

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