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The Heavenly man

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davet Mar 21, 2008

Hello SI.

I am reading the 'heavenly man' right now, and have been very blessed by it, especially the Lord has been speaking to me from Acts 14:22...... ... we must suffer much tribulation...

I now there was a thread talking about the credibility of the book. I read through the thread and there didn't seem to be any conclusive evidence on the matter at the time.......... i was wondering if anything had cleared up in the mean time??

not looking to create a debate at all, i just want to know if there is any hard evidence, eyewitnesses, etc.

thanks
dave

sermonindex Mar 21, 2008


Hi davet,

A good place to start is to go to www.asiaharvest.org and scroll down to the bottom of the homepage. There is a letter called "An Open Letter Regarding the 'Heavenly Man.' This is by Paul Hattaway the author of the book. In it he shares some evidence he found for the supernatural events described in "The Heavenly Man."

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davet Mar 21, 2008

Thanks for the reply! I read part of the article, and will read more of it later. I have been so blessed by this book, and more blessed by how the Lord is using it to draw me to him.

thanks
dave

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rookie Mar 21, 2008

I have been persuaded, I believe...that this man glorifies our Lord Jesus Christ...

Your brother in Christ
Jeff

sermonindex Mar 21, 2008

Davet: I went to China in the gospel in the summer of '07, and before I went, I read "The Heavenly Man", by Hattaway. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I met with a brother who knew Watchman Nee, and T. Austin Sparks, hoping to get some leads into the underground church, and also this testimony. I was shocked when this elderly man, still in ministry, vehemently opposed Brother Yun, as a liar and a charlatan.


I soon discovered that he was of a stream that rejects all of the supernatural power that moves through men as heresy and evil. I have had some direct and personal experiences with God, and each time I shared anything about these, he rose in anger. I was with him 3 days in this interview. I also was amazed when I learned of the splintered factions of the Nee movement in China, and around the world. It appears that some are super-conservative, some are very elite, and some more towards the "Spirit-filled " line. This is important to understand, as Nee made a monumental impact, and still does, in China.

He evidently started to read "Heavenly Man", but only got to the first testimony about miracles, before he refused to go on. His theology, and Nee denomination [world-wide] cried " anathema" {cursed].

On my trip I determined to go to the rural areas and cities where Brother Yun traveled, to seek out the true "underground" church, and wash their feet. This came to pass, in miraculous ways. [I went alone, no contacts, not speaking a syllable of Chinese.]


I entered through Hong Kong, and met some good brothers smuggling bibles, who knew of this controversy, and it seems that one of the major detractors of Brother Yun, lived nearby, in mainland China. He wrote articles swearing that Yun lied, etc, ,etc. It just so happened, that these brothers were also leaders of the church who denounce the supernatural through man as demonic. They believe that the gifts died with the 12 Apostles, and the bible is our only rock and faith.


I didn't see this man, as I believe they chose to undermine and accuse Yun, simply because to receive him would nullify their lifetime belief that the holy Spirit no longer manifests Himself in these ways, and their faith would crash as a lie, and their lifetime of teachings would be obviously false, so they chose to crucify him.

Paul Hattaway went out of his way, to verify the sometimes fantastic experiences Yun often experienced. His reputation was at stake. Yun is just like us, I believe; A weak, and failing brother that God never let down.


The legal evidence of the veracity of this testimony far, far, out-ways it's opponents. My desire is the hope that in my life, I too could attain a favor with Jesus to live a life of such dependence. Brother Tom.


sermonindex Mar 21, 2008

Excerpts from: "The Heavenly Man"
Posted with permission from: BTJ
http://www.crossroad.to/Excerpts/books/faith_under_fire/heavenly-man.htm
Chapter I: Humble Beginnings

I was born in 1958... the fourth of five children in our family. I came into the world in an old traditional farming village named Liu Lao Zhuang... in the southern part of the China's Henan Province. ... Our home was a simple structure of compacted dried mud. The roof was made of straw. The rain always managed to find the holes in our roof.... When the temperature dropped below freezing we burned leftover corn husks to keep warm. We couldn't afford coal....(Page 17)

On September 1901, a large ship docked in Shanghai Port. A young single lady from Norway walked off the gangplank onto Chinese soil. ... Marie Monsen was one of a new wave of missionaries who, inspired by the martyrdoms of the previous year, had dedicated themselves to full-time missionary service in China. Monson stayed in China for more than thirty years. For a time she lived in my county... where she encouraged and trained a small group of Chinese believers....

She didn't seem too concerned with making a good impression on the Chinese church leaders. She often told them, "You are all hypocrites! You confess Jesus Christ with your lips while your hearts are not fully committed to Him! Repent before it is too late to escape God's judgment!" ...

Hearts were convicted of sin and fires of revival swept throughout the villages of central China wherever she went.... (Page 19-20)

China became a Communist nation in 1949. Within a few years all missionaries were expelled, church buildings were closed and thousands of Chinese pastors were imprisoned. Many lost their lives. My mother saw the missionaries leave Nanyang in the early 1950s. She never forgot the tears in their eyes as they headed for the coast under armed guard....

In just one city in China... 49 [Chinese] pastors were sent to prison labor camps near the Russian border.... 48 died in prison. (Page 20)

In my home area of Nanyang, believers were crucified on the walls of their churches for not denying Christ. ... One pastor was bound and attached to a long rope. The authorities, enraged that the man of God would not deny his faith, used a makeshift crane to lift him high into the air. Before hundreds of witnesses who had come to accuse him solely of being a "counter revolutionary," [Public interrogation and punishment built the public fear needed for government control] the pastor was asked on last time if he would recant. He shouted back, "No! I will never deny the Lord who saved me!" The rope was released and the pastor crashed to the ground below. (Page 21)

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davidt Mar 24, 2008

Brothertom,

I must speak to you about your trip!

sermonindex Mar 24, 2008


rookie wrote:
I have been persuaded, I believe...that this man glorifies our Lord Jesus Christ...

Your brother in Christ
Jeff

I agree with Jeff. I've heard brother Yun speak in person once and was able to shake his hand and his wife's hand. The love of Jesus shone from his face and her's.


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CJaKfOrEsT Mar 24, 2008

There is some Brother Yun and Peter Xu audio on this site.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=301]Brother Yun[/url]
[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=535]Peter Xu[/url]

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narrowpath Mar 24, 2008

I happen to know the guy quite well who got brother Yun out of China. They lived with him for 2 years or so. He told me a different story about Yun that draws a contrasting picture about the events.

I do not agree with the way this brother attacks brother Yun even if there was truth in it. I am undecided and leave the matter until I know what actually happened.

narrowpath

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LadyMac Feb 1, 2012

If you go to the Asia Harvest website you can read Paul Hattaway's account of how he researched the book. I met Brother Yun when he spoke at my church in Korea. You could tell when you walked in the room that the presence of God was there. He didn't promote his book, but talked instead about the spiritual prisons that those of in the west were in(contrary to the physical prisons he suffered in, in China). There were people in my church on the missions board who had direct contact with witnesses to Brother Yun's ministry and supernatural experiences, all said that they were true. I am sure that by now you have come to a conclusion regarding this book, but to all who read this in the future, do not doubt or hestitate, and do not believe those that are criticizing this man and saying he is false. I have personally met the man and he was humble and full of the Holy Spirit and brought an important word to the audience. Blessings

sermonindex Feb 1, 2012

I have noticed lately a trend in this forum to speak out and judge those who are persecuted for Christ. About 2 weeks ago Youcef Nadarkhani of Iran was judged because of doctrine he held concerning Christ. Last week it was Watchman Nee. And now Brother Yun.

I wonder about those who call the credibility of the above brothers in question. I ask have you suffered as these men have? Have you been to prison? Have you been beaten? It takes very little courage to follow Jesus behind a key board. But far more courage to follow him in the fires of persecution.

For the record I have read The Heavenly Man and delighted in the book. I hope to meet Brother Yun one day.

Blaine Scogin

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Miccah Feb 1, 2012

I hope to meet Brother Yun one day.

I believe that you will my brother :-)

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DEADn Oct 26, 2016

I got this book for free and after reading the synopsis of it I came into it thinking that this was going to be fishy. I am barely through half of the book so far. I find some of it a bit fishy. 2 notables so far are the dreams and visions that Yun says he received. He says in the book he didn't get alot but then goes on to explain what the ones he did get mean. There were more than just a couple of them.

The other one is being without food and water fro 73 days. I have seen that a few other people raise their eyebrows on that as well.

I went through this thread to find out more of what I don't know about this mean and I really can't figure it out yet. Something about a ministry related to Jerusalem? What is that all about?

There is an open letter from the person who wrote the book who is testifying that these things in the book actually happened. Well, if they did then he had more Holy Spirit 'power' then the Apostles in my opinion and I don't know that that is really true.

I will finish the book but will most likely remain a bit skeptical with the more outlandish things. I suppose the closest person Yun comes to is Richard Wurmbrand but I don't think he mentioned seeing many visions or dreams not did he fast for x number of days though he did give other prisoners his food at times.

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DEADn Oct 26, 2016

Part of my previous posts comments was in relation to another thread about this book. I just realized there are at least 2 threads about this book.

This discussion is locked.

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