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Theology

God's grace runs out.

sermonindex Mar 24, 2008

1 John 5:16-17
"If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not [i][b]leading[/b][/i] to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin [i][b]not[/i][/b] leading to death. There is a sin [i][b]leading[/b][/i] to death; I do not say the he should not make request for this. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin [i][b]not[/i][/b] leading to death."

John Macarthur: [i]"Such a sin could be any premeditated and unconfessed sin that causes the Lord to determine to end a believer's life. It is not one particular sin like homosexuality or lying, but whatever sin is the final one in the tolerance of God. Failure to repent of and forsake sin may eventually lead to physical death as a judgment of God."[/i]

A scary thought to meditate on how God views sin in the believer's life. When does grace run its course? Is it unrepentant sin or sin that causes you to struggle and slip. How then does 1 John 1:8-9 come into play. May we all take a hard look at our sin, and pray that God will grant us the repentance and the His strength to standfast when the waters rise. May the Lord show me my sin through His word and His spirit. May we hate sin and glory in the redemption of the savior.

sermonindex Mar 24, 2008

I have understood the sin which cannot be forgiven is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, as when the scribes accuse Jesus of having a demon, calling Him 'unclean' - Mark 3:22 - 30. Elsewhere in the New Testament, Pharisees make the same accusation.

John Macarthur: [i]"Such a sin could be any premeditated and unconfessed sin that causes the Lord to determine to end a believer's life. It is not one particular sin like homosexuality or lying, but whatever sin is the final one in the tolerance of God. Failure to repent of and forsake sin may eventually lead to physical death as a judgment of God."[/i]
I'm sure there is a last time to refuse God. This is clear from several of the parables. I came close to refusing His grace that 'last time', but was stopped in my tracks by a preacher who pointed out (from the end of Rom 1), that if one became [i]implaccable[/i], one was [i]beyond[/i] God's reach. God was still calling to me, and I did turn, and began to demolish the defences I'd erected.


However, no-one blasphemes against the Holy Spirit accidentally. It is a specific insult to God, chosen with full knowledge by the one who makes it.

There are many ways to express doubt about who God is, His existence and power, or His interest in the lives of individuals, which are acceptable to Him.

Note, He who comes to God 'must believe that He is' (Heb 11:6). I would suggest: He who insults God, also believes 'that He is'.

sermonindex Mar 24, 2008

However, no-one blasphemes against the Holy Spirit accidentally. It is a specific insult to God, chosen with full knowledge by the one who makes it.

Hey Dorcas,

Are you saying that the text refers more to apostasy than continuing in sin or better struggling with a specific sin? I have heard the claim that some view this text as, like you indicated blasphemy against the holy spirit.

Am I reading this correctly...John Macarthur is being a Pharisee?

Appreciate your comments...BTW how are you doing?

REformer

sermonindex Mar 24, 2008

Hi reformer,

God is faithful to me, thank you, and His gracious leading I both acknowledge and desire.

Are you saying that the text refers more to apostasy than continuing in sin or better struggling with a specific sin?
[color=6633FF]1 John 5:16, 17 YLT
If any one may see his brother sinning a sin not unto death, he shall ask, and He shall give to him life to those sinning not unto death; there is sin to death, not concerning it do I speak that he may beseech; all unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not unto death.[/color]


I think this statement has to be taken in the context of what John has already written about not sinning, our Advocate with the Father [i][b]if[/i][/b] we sin, and what Jude says about making a difference so as to pull some out of the fire; (these are just a few thoughts).


Here is Matthew's fuller account of Jesus' teaching I quoted from Mark.

[color=6633FF]Chapter 12
25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast [i]them[/i] out? therefore they shall be your judges.
28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: [u]but the blasphemy[/u] [i]against[/i] [u]the[/u] [i]Holy[/i] [u]Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men[/u].
32 [b]And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the[/b] [i]world[/i] [b]to come.[/b]

33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by [i]his[/i] fruit.

34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. [/color]

We'll get back to what John McArthur said, if necessary, when you've had time to consider Matthew and John together.


:-) How are you?

sermonindex Mar 25, 2008

How are you?

Doing good, have taken sometime away from SI.

getting back to your rebuttal, what about Luke 13:7-9
[b]"And he said to the vineyard-keeper, 'Behold for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. 'Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?'
"And he answered and said to him, 'Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but, if not, cut it down.'"[/b]

What you have stated makes perfect sense and quite convincing, however, it leaves me still with the question, God's grace runs out for the believer. But, then as I look at 1 John 5:18 your statement makes much more sense,being in line with blasphemy statement; verses a genuine believer sinning and continuing in it. But, I have not conceded yet, let me give it more thought...based on my other verse description in Luke 13, I still must hold my view...but you have gave me food for thought!!
:-)

talk to you later
Mike

P.S.
I would like to talk about Macarthur..but not on the thread...it would only create a "feeding frenzy"!! lets email each other. I will send you a PM brother.

sermonindex Mar 25, 2008


Hi Mike,

Glad to hear you are well. :-)

God's grace runs out for the believer
I didn't like to say so at the beginning of the thread, but I'm not keen on the title you've chosen, because I don't believe it. I feel it is subtley feeding the reader an error of thinking.

God's grace doesn't run out for [i]the believer[/i].

But, believers sometimes struggle with faith, when temptations and attacks come, and they fall. But the need for a Christian to be tried (proved), is largely for his own sake, not God's. And, we have an Advocate, and, being born again, we can.... not sin.

God is not really testing [i]our faith[/i], but our hearts, to see whether we be settled and established in the faith. What is 'the faith'? It is 'the faith of Jesus Christ'.

Are we abiding in Him, so that fruit is naturally being borne through our relationship with Him, or, are we in a closer relationship with the world, self, and sin? Which relationship do we [i]intend[/i] will eventually survive? What we really think in our hearts, is what we will do.

[color=6633FF]1 Peter 1
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see [him] not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9 Receiving the end of your faith, [i]even[/i] the salvation of [i]your[/i] souls. [/color]

The [i]believer[/i] is going to receive an endless supply of God's Spirit, to enable him to win through in the trials he must inevitably face.

Philippians 1:19, 20

It is the [u]un[/u]believer for whom God's grace may run out. (By unbeliever I mean in this sense: the Christian who keeps on reverting to unbelief instead of faith, and sins because he refuses to believe God can and will enable him to overcome.)

I believe this happens to a lot of people who have never been told [u]victory over sin[/u] is what Jesus won for us. They've been led to believe He [only] died to [i]forgive[/i] their sins, (and it's [i]up to them[/i] to work out how to stop sinning), but if you think about this for just a second, you'll remember sins were being forgiven by the God of Calvary, before Calvary, although the Old Covenant made no provision to forgive. What is new through Jesus, is the power and authority to [u]cease from sin[/u], which is in their hands [u]by faith[/u], and thus [i]faith[/i] needs to be [u]exercised[/u] whenever sin is the issue.

This is the gospel - that through faith we receive [u]and can keep[/u] such a righteousness, that we obtain eternal life; we are cleansed by the blood of the Lamb, and our robes are laundered in His blood to keep them white.


Is this making sense?

C
Christinyou Mar 25, 2008

It sounds like we all think that God is more interested in our sin than He is in our justification unto life in Christ Jesus.

I don't see this in scripture. God is only interested in the One that pleased Him, and there was only One and He has been the only Only One since from before the foundation of the world, and unto its end and beyond, that will ever be pleasing to Him.

If we are in Christ Jesus, we are under no condemnation. It is the Grace of God that saves us, Keeps us, teaches us this Christ and He only see's in us this Christ. It is God's choice whom He will give this Grace and the Faith of Jesus Christ to. We are under a great misconception if we think we are the ones that are pleasing God in any way. As Paul; Galatians 1:15-16 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

That is why we are not to pray for the sin of death. It is the life and light of Christ that gives us all that we are. If we think we can work up enough super faith and works to become pleasing to God, we insult Him. How would you feel if you had given all that you had, His only begotten Son and then have someone tell you, I will bring my life into justice before you God and thanks for the Cross, but now I will make you happy by my works. I don't believe God will be happy with anyone that is making his own life, be it in sin or not in sin, that having anything to do with who we are in Christ Jesus. It was done at the Cross and we need to stay in that life and that Grace and that Faith that God has provided for our salvation. It is not me, that keeps me in Christ, it is not me that keeps me under no condemnation, it is not me that can even say I can do it, only in Christ can I do all things.

It is the Power of God in Christ Jesus that give me life and That is Christ, He is the only One that is pleasing to God. I am pleasing to God by Him and Him only that is born again in me.

This is the only hope of Glory that I can conceive that is possible. It is Christ in me, period......

Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to His working, which worketh in me mightily.

Who's working are we striving in to make us perfect and pleasing to God? Forget the sin leading to death, it cannot happen for those that are in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

I am already dead to sin, I was crucified with Him on His Cross and when His dead head head fell on the dead shoulders of His ravaged body, I was dead also with Him and to sin.

Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

It is Christ in us that give us life and breath and it is in Him in whom we live and move and have our being.

Ephesians 3:14-21 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

There will never be sin unto death for those that are in Christ Jesus for God will not crucify His Son anew for anyone.

There is only one sin leading to death and that is not believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. This is blaspheming the Holy Spirit, for what is His Job?

John 16:8-9 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me;

In Christ, Perfect before the Father by the only One that is pleasing to Him:

Phillip

sermonindex Mar 25, 2008

Yes it makes sense. Naturally it is better to believe and except what you have said verses what I have made mention of. Are those that hold the opinion that God's grace will run out for the disobedient believer and take him home early wrong? I have heard many say judge it through what 2000 years of Christianity has said about it. I have searched through some commentaries and have read the same thing along with the blasphemy believe as well.If Mathews, Barnes, Clarke and so on pretty much say the same thing wouldn't that surmise we or I could be wrong? Generally what I am saying is if I interpret scripture in a text I will often check myself with what others have said.

Another reason I bring this is up; my friend who was divorced and remarried was having a hard time serving in the church...it seemed that the leadership would not let him serve in a small capacity with the youth. He finally got to meet with the youth pastor and my friend explained to him about the divorce...short story long, the pastor basically told him that he was still alive, if it was disobedience God would have took him home early. Apparently, the pastor holds this belief because he is convinced that it happened to his friend.

Am I convinced about this text, no, Do I know much about anything...NO. I will confess I do struggle with certain aspects of God, trying to get my mind wrapped around who HE really is, instead of letting my anxieties of my childhood life dictate who God is or accept who He is. Sometimes it is hard for me to see that God accepts me! That HE truly loves me...I know what the bible says...but still I have to remind myself who God is. I did grow up with a distorted view in my early walk.

Do you still Skype?

Blessings
Mike

sermonindex Mar 25, 2008

Well said Phillip...I often make the mistake when I read a book in the bible and the theme and background takes you along a certain path.. I can get one dimensional in my approach to scripture. I will forget about other verses...like the one's you have just made mention of. I realize that I don't know how to study as I should and make a stronger efficient manner of study.

We are under a great misconception if we think we are the ones that are pleasing God in any way.

Amen...!

Mike

sermonindex Apr 2, 2008

Mike said

I realize that I don't know how to study as I should and make a stronger efficient manner of study.
This may not be ideal and certainly it's not formal 'study', but I've been very blessed by the Lord bringing revelation to my understanding, which has sent me into scripture to follow a word, or a theme, through the cross-references, until I find myself looking at verses I've already seen.

What this does, is define the limits of a word or spiritual truth, to show what things are linked together in God's heart and mind, and how He expresses those thoughts to us, repetitively (often) through scripture.

For instance, here is a simple example I happened across (which I didn't know before I happened across it in scripture), that references to 'a pit' carry with them the idea of being unable to get out; worse, a pit is a 'dry place'; so one is imprisoned in a place without water. This is in contrast to His promise to make us those out of whom flow [i]rivers[/i] of [u]living[/u] water.

However a person ends up in a pit, the spiritual necessity is that only God can get one out... or feed, or give to drink, there. The 'dry pit without water' is a kind of biblical code for being in prison and left to starve, thirst and die there, for as long as that person\\people is unwilling to obey\\believe God's word. He really is interested in the response to Him of every single individual who ever lived. It's awesome and terrifying at the same time.

Many other word studies yield the same kind of fruit, and how we should respond to His word - to [u]live[/u] by it.

sermonindex Apr 2, 2008

Phillip, greetings,

It was done at the Cross and we need to stay in that life and that Grace and that Faith that God has provided for our salvation.
I just had to say 'amen' to this statement. :-)


It's always good to see the solid truth of scripture expounded.

B
BlazedbyGod Apr 4, 2008

Yes, I concur, that God's Grace for an individual can run out-as to God's Spirit will not always strive with man-or even along with that, there are things that God simply just does not tolerate any length of time. ( Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost-in which God does not tolerate to any extent, that once it is actually willfully committed, the hope of salvation will never be a possibility for that individual. Then also, there is lying to the Holy Ghost, which is one/a/the sin that is UNTO death-as you see this in the Book of Acts with:
Acts 5:3
But Peter said, Ananias, [b]why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost[/b], and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? [b]thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.[/b] 5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

This was a believer, whom Satan was able to fill his heart to lie to the Holy Ghost-and it is also most proven that this is one of the sins that is unto death-and apparently that God does not tolerate to any extent.

Another sin that is unto death (as I believe) is when you agree with someone to TEMPT the SPIRIT OF THE LORD, as we see with Ananias's wife: 7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in. 8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much. 9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to [b]tempt the Spirit of the Lord?[/b] behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out. 10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

In which, of course, she lied as well-but neither of them received any grace when they committed such crime against the Spirit of God-in which, we neither see Peter praying for either of them or even offering any mercy........though he did with Simeon the sorcerer.

Ananias and his wife-BELIEVERS IN the Church (the first century Church at that) committed an act of sin that was UNFORGIVABLE, but Simeon the Sorcerer committed a sin that indeed was treacherous, but possibly able to be forgiven.

Acts 8:13 13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done...18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, 19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. 20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. 21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 [b]Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and PRAY GOD, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.[/b]

Simon was told to Repent, but Ananias and his wife, were never told to repent-I believe they weren't told to Repent, because at that point they had already committed the sin that is unto death that is never forgivable. In other words, even lying to the Holy Ghost is a form of Blasphemy of/to/against the Holy Ghost. Simon was also told and given the opportunity to " PRAY to God", but neither Ananias nor his wife were given this opportunity. Thus you see somewhat of some kind of Grace/mercy bestowed toward Simon, but no kind of grace/mercy soever for/towards Ananias. His wife had grace or a chance to repent, even though she didn't know what her husband did-but she did not take the opportunity when given the chanse when Peter asked her the question " How much did you sell it for"-in that we see her chance of missing GRACE and being able to repent.

Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost is the sin that is unto death-because it is the sin that can never be forgiven, neither in this world, nor the one to come.

Apostasy is also another sin that is unto death. If you read 1 John 5:16 in the King James Version, you will see that the scripture references to verse 16 are Matt 12:31-33 and Hebrews 6:4-6. Both are chapters that refer to Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost and Apostasy

sermonindex Apr 4, 2008

Hi Dorcas,
On your note you had "Something Missing". The second half of Heb 11:6.
Heb 11:6
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
KJV

C
Christinyou Apr 5, 2008

If we are born again by the Spirit of Christ, how can God abort His own Son in the believer and send Him to death?

There is no sin unto death for those that are in Christ Jesus.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Either Christs sacrifice is not good enough and being born again is just words and we don't have The Holy Spirit dwelling in us forever and the Father does not make His abode with us by His Sons sacrifice, death, resurrection, ascended to the Father and come back in the flesh of those chosen to believe that the Father has given Jesus Christ as His own is a false assumption, OR all that which is said by Paul and John is true and is in effect in the believer and we are as Christ is in this world. It is in Him in whom we live and move and have our being.

We are son's of God and He will not kill his own son's anymore especially His only begotten Son who now lives in the believing sons.

Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Phl 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

1Jo 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.


Law: Eze 33:11 Say unto them, [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Grace by faith for His Pleasure:

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Phl 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

2Th 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of [this] calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of [his] goodness, and the work of faith with power:

Hbr 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened [us] after their own pleasure; but he for [our] profit, that [we] might be partakers of his holiness.

There is none pleasing to God save One, that is the Christ that is born again in you.

Our only Glory, our only Hope:

Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

In Christ: Phillip


sermonindex Apr 5, 2008

In psalm1's thread on p14, [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=22804&forum=35]Was Wigglesworth serious?[/url] he posts the following extract:

'[i]Bible Reading-Acts 5:1-20.

Notice this expression that the Lord gives of the Gospel message-"the words of this life." It is the most wonderful life possible-the life of faith in the Son of God. This is the life where God is all the time. He is round about and He is within. It is the life of many revelations and of many manifestations of God's Holy Spirit, a life in which the Lord is continually seen, known, felt and heard. It is a life without death, for "we have passed from death unto life." The very life of God has come within us. Where that life is within in its fullness, disease cannot exist. It would take me a month to tell out what there is in this wonderful life. Everyone can go in and possess and be possessed by this life.

It is possible for you to be within the vicinity of this life and yet miss it. It is possible for you to be in a place where God is pouring out His Spirit and yet miss the blessing that God is so willing to bestow. It all comes through shortness of revelation and through a misunderstanding of the infinite grace of God, and of the "God of all grace," who is willing to give to all who will reach out the hand of faith. This life that He freely bestows is a gift. Some think they have to earn it and they miss the whole thing. Oh, for a simple faith to receive all that God so lavishly offers. You can never be ordinary from the day you receive this life from above. You become extraordinary, filled with the extraordinary power of our extraordinary God.[/i]'


I have to agree.


To BlazedbyGod's post, listing biblical worst case scenarios, and to moe_mac, I believe Wigglesworth explains how the life of a [u]believer[/u] should work.

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth, and cannot be decieved, as Ananias and Sapphira attempted to do.

The invitation to be being filled with the Holy Ghost (Eph 5:18, for instance) does seem to leave room to be filled with other things. We know from what Jesus said, that it is from the heart that a man is defiled, and of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks (the mind thinks). This is why renewing of the mind is vital for a Christian to proceed towards inner habits of Christ-likeness.

Romans 5
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also [u]we have access [b]by faith into this grace[/b] wherein we stand[/u], and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only [i]so[/i], but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only [i]so[/i], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

v 2 [b]we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand[/b]


Romans 1:17
'... the just shall live by faith...'

(Hab 2:4 Behold, his soul [i]which[/i] is lifted up is not upright in him:
[u]but the just shall live by his faith[/u].)

sermonindex Apr 5, 2008


Hi Mike (reformer),

If it's not clear by now, I don't believe there is ever a shortness of God's grace. The shortness is on man's side, to believe Him, and be available to receive all that His grace is able to make good in our experience.

An important part of having faith (believing), is [u]being faithful[/u] (continuing to believe), and this is what many people stick at when they come to something which challenges their level of trust in God. God intends us to do a quick calculation in our heads based on what we know of Him when we look around at creation (Rom 1:19, 20 and Acts 14:15 - 17), and to conclude that He is able, and without missing a step or a heartbeat, to keep trusting Him. In this way, [u]faith keeps the door open for grace[/u] to keep flooding in.

I guess I'm saying that where you find a shortage of grace, you will also find unbelief. Someone has decided to rest their decision about how to proceed, not on what God is able to do, but on whether they are willing to look to Him to make up their shortcoming.

In my view, this is one reason Heb 10:14's use of the word 'perfected' (meaning [i][b]completed[/i][/b]), is a key to laying hold through the Holy Spirit, of God's view of what is available to believers. Unless we begin to apprehend His acceptance of Christ's sacrifice, we will continue to look at our own efforts with justifyable doubt. Salvation doesn't work because of our doubt. It works because of His faith, which we access when we begin to believe [u]in Him[/u].


Galatians 2
16 [b]Knowing that a man is[/b] not [b]justified[/b] by the works of the law, but [b]by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ[/b], and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, [i]is[/i] therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 [b]I do not frustrate [u]the grace of God[/u][/b]: for if righteousness [i]come[/i] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

C
Christinyou Apr 6, 2008

""If it's not clear by now, I don't believe there is ever a shortness of God's grace. The shortness is on man's side, to believe Him, and be available to receive all that His grace is able to make good in our experience.""

Amen Linn,

The Cross was not conditional Grace on Gods part.
That Cross was for the sin of the whole world.
It is for man to believe it and he will be saved.
Who does believe? It is only by the Grace of God that any believe. This is God's choice, ah oh, I said a bad thing. Sorry, back to Grace. If Grace is conditional then it is up to us to be saved and work out our salvation by our own works.
Use it or loose it.

That is not the Grace of God, it is the conditional Grace of Man by his own belief in himself, that is the knowledge of Good and Evil, which put the whole human race in the mess it is in now. God knowing this before he even created Adam by the One that was the most powerful and closest to God, with all the attributes of God that was give him, even the greatest angle ever created failed to stay in God's Love. So Grace was already in the plan of God and that Grace was Jesus Christ and His cross. This Grace is complete and final, it is the Grace of God, pure and undeniable in it effect on man. Pure Grace is not conditional and man since it came has been trying to take the Law of the Kingdom which is Israel's legacy and will still be the working out of the promises God made to them. Christ offered the kingdom to them and they refused, but God's four covenants are still going to happen to Israel as a nation. Abrahamic covenant, Mosaic covenant, Davidic covenant and the covenant of promise that God tried to show Israel when Christ offered "the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand", This was the keeping of God and what He promised Israel, they would rule the world, inherit the Land and they would be God's people on this earth.

That all was put aside after being offered even a final time in Acts after the Messiah was already killed. The final offer was rejected in Acts 28:25-29 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.

Some believed and the rest did not, and for Israel to be saved as a whole, it would take the Sanhedrin and the whole nation to believe. Those that did believe are no longer Jews. They are Christian son's of God in Christ Jesus.

The Church has taken the promises of God to Israel and put them into the mix and in keeping the covenants and looking for the promises of God they have neglected to receive the great beauty and promise of the birthing of Christ in the believer and so making Christ Body His Church under pure grace become a commingled law and grace, a man operated religious organization which has missed out on God's plan for the Bride of Christ, His Church not ours.

Pure Grace, that is Gods Grace will never run out, the price was to high to impune it and cheapen it by our good behavior, which is nothing to God. Only Christ is pleasing to God and He that is in us thats what make us pleasing to the Father.
There is nothing we do or can do that is pleasing to God, only Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

Thanks Linn, you are so right, Gods Grace will never run out.

Ephesians 2:4-10 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

In the Grace of Jesus Christ, Gods only Begotten Son: Phillip

P
PreachParsly Apr 7, 2008

Are there any examples in the Bible where God killed someone and we know that they were justified before God and not in rebellion? Or that we know "went to heaven?" Other than Jesus of course...

Nearly all the examples that come to my mind are people that were in rebellion to God.

sermonindex Apr 7, 2008

PreachParsly asked

Are there any examples in the Bible where God killed someone and we know that they were justified before God and not in rebellion? Or that we know "went to heaven?" Other than Jesus of course...
I am reminded of Ron Bailey's comment in this old thread:

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=5978&forum=36&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0]Did Moses see God?[/url]

Here is the end of his last post on that page:

'I don't know whether it is being used figuratively or literally of Moses, but the impression is of virility and life rather than an old man ready to lie down for his last sleep. We need to remember too that the 'exodus' generation were the recipients of some extraordinary blessings;

[color=6633FF]Deut. 29:5 And I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes are not waxen old upon you, and thy shoe is not waxen old upon thy foot.

Psa. 105:37 He brought them forth also with silver and gold: and there was not one feeble person among their tribes.[/color]

It might appear from this that all the hundreds of thousands who died in the wilderness did not die of 'natural causes' but as a result of God's timed executions?'


Might this apply to Aaron also?

Not in the exact same category, but considering the faith of Mary and Martha, how do we read the (first) death of Lazarus?

Just a few thoughts.

C
Christinyou Apr 8, 2008

First why the question?


""Are there any examples in the Bible where God killed someone and we know that they were justified before God and not in rebellion? Or that we know "went to heaven?" Other than Jesus of course""

Act 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

I think Paul was justified. Even unto his death.

And Peter, Phillip, and even others for Christs Name Sake.

Were we not all crucified with Christ.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

1Pe 4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?


In Christ: Phillip

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