Judging

I think your right in what you say about love.Pauls says in 1 Cor. 13:13 and 14:1These three things will endure- faith, hope and love-and the greatest of these is love. Let love be your hightest goal...There is no contradiction in what Jesus said about judging. Just because God tells us that we can't do something, doesn't mean that He can't do it. The reason that He says "Judge not" is because this is His job to do not ours. He will judge all people in the end and every knee will bow. There are two different kinds of judements in the end. The judgement of non christians to hell and the judgement of the works that we as christians did for Him on this Earth. We go to heaven, but some will recieve more treasures according to what they did with Jesus. In the passage you were talking about with the temple. I don't think He was judging them to hell as much as He just had a godly anger. I believe there is a bad anger which leads to sin and a godly anger about injustice. He was angry about these people making money in God's temple. These people were ripping off God's people. It is a place of worship not a place to make money. God gets angry and He still doesn't sin. Like in the old testiment where He gets angry at Israel countless times, and wants to smite them. He's not sinning because His is God and He says, "vengence is mine". It's not for us to take a matter into our own hands. It's His problem. Just like judging. Also, if your parents do something but tell you not to do it. Are they wrong or contradicting themselves? No. Because they are the parents. They make the rules. Just like God. He's our maker. We're the clay. We do what He says without asking questions.

Wow... a lot of topics got covered in the original post. So... what are we really talking about here?Jesus once said, "Judge not that ye be not judged." Fair enough. But what happens when we see Him storming into the temple to throw over the money-changers' tables and to kick those rascals out into the streets? Is the poor Man confused, contradicting Himself?Well, for one thing, Jesus was without sin. He tells us not to judge because I think, even as Christians, we're still sinful people. He's not and never was! I think "DelightedInU" kind of already said that in her own way.Yeah the whole thing on love was cool. I am kind of lost concerning the thing on Saddam Hussein and President Bush.

Firstly, Daniel...where did you come form? I read a post of yours a couple of days ago and you were ranked as "just popping in". Man, you sure have alot to say ;-).With regard to the issue at hand, yes Jesus was without sin, but what was the basis of His innocence in this matter? I know that we can accept this on a "character of Jesus justifies itself" basis, but there is scripture to support his behaviour.Isa 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.Isaiah 11 is one of the Messianic prophesies of the OT. So this verse relates directly to Him. In it Jesus is described as one who "judges with righteousness". In other words, because He knows the intents of the hearts of men, He knew that the hearts of the ppl in the temple, tended toward greed rather than a desire to provide a means of repentance (which is was the temple offering were for).If we judge, we judge out of a heart that "know(s) in part, and we prophes(ies) in part. (1Co 13:9)". therefore, we are incapable of judging "with righteousness" because we don't know all the facts. We are hoever called to exhort (warn in a friendly manner) others (can't remember scripture reference :-)).Anyway, that's my take on the matter.Regards,Az

On JudgingA fundamental error regarding the character and procedures of the Living God opens for superficiality and slackness in our churches and fellowships.God, the Father, is Light – James 1:17, 1 John 1:5. There is no darkness in Him, no changes – He is always exactly the same. He cannot be swayed. He cannot be reduced into terms of situation ethics. This is a functional statement which must be understood and taken heed to regarding the personality and the ways of the Lord.Because He is Light, there is a foundation upon which His Holiness rests. Whatever is to be brought into contact with Him, into fellowship with Him has to be cleansed, reordered, and reinstated into a condition which equals the condition of what He himself is. Salvation and sanctification in a nutshell, isn’t it.Because He is Light, He is able to define standards – Holiness and Righteousness. Because He is Holy, His Love is perfectly safe, perfectly true and genuine. Because His Love is based on Holiness He can perfectly defend and preserve what He loves. This is the foundation for true judgment. Love without Holiness brings moral slackness, it is no better than humanistic situation ethics. The one who stays with a “God is Love”, will eventually twist it into Love is god according to his liking and personal preferences. We cannot allow ourselves to choose one single verse in the Bible to for the establishment of our view on judgment. Doing so is poor Judgment. In the letters of the New Testament one finds about 150 verses and sequences about judging and Judgment – my personal count, doing a study on the subject some years ago.To say that the mission of Jesus on Earth was to establish Love stems from the same fundamental error. The eternal purpose of the Father is to establish the Throne of Heaven for the Son to take and hold for ever – this is the Mystery of the existence of the Church as a spiritual entity in this world, a mystery which the same Church has very little insight into, due to poor judgment.“You shall not Judge” – You may not judge in a judgmental fashion. This is the beam which by thorough sanctification must be taken out of your eye for the sake of proper judgment.Ponder this, there is even a gift of discernment, a spiritual ability to produce necessary judgments. The gift of wisdom has to balance the gift of discernment. The two gifts operate where the Love of God is established in Holiness for the sake of Light in darkness.“Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another”. Col 3:16.The word admonish falls back on the Greek word Noutesis. Noutesis presupposes a counselling type of confrontation in which the object is to effect a characterological and behavioural change in the one confronted. Nouthetic confrontation, in its biblical usage, aims at straighten out the individual by changing his patterns of behaviour to conform to biblical standards. This is Love which brings Light and Holiness.Lars W.

Happy peopleI think that there is a difference between judging a person’s actions, and judging a person’s character. For example, if we witness someone stealing, we know that action is wrong and we have the scriptures to back it up. We even have the mandate to correct our brother, and save him from the error of his ways. It is when after we witness our brother stealing and we label him an unrighteous thief that I think we are in error.Jesus said in Luke 12 “57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?” This judgment pertains to discerning between what is right and what is wrong.Again, he says in John 5 “30I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent Me.” This is also discerning right and wrong.John 7 “24Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.” Again discerning right and wrong.John7 “51 Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth?” This seems to me to be the “labeling” kind.John8 “15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. 16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. 17” Again the “labeling” kindJames

Men, like trees, are to be judged by their fruit.But fruit is more than moral behaviour.Fruit is certainly more than a world view and a theology ordered by much thinking.Character is to be judged by moral behaviour.But good deeds do not prove good character.Bad behaviour certainly points out a character in need to be improved.The one who repeatedly produces poor judgments, poor theology and/or poor behaviour need thorough penetration by the Light of the Lord.L. W.

Long ago, when I was working with Teen Challenge trying to penetrate the many rough and complicated counselling situations which we were confronted with among drug addicts and other heavily burdened counselees we were recommended to read Jay Adams.Competent to Counsel, 1970More than Redemption, 1973The Christian counselor’s Manual, 1979are three of Jay E. Adams valuable workspublished by Baker Book House.He “invented” the term Noutetic Counseling.

Hello again!I must agree with Brother Greg about the sense of eternity in Brother Lars’ statements. It seems that we agree that the word “judge” can be taken in several different contexts. I am not a Greek scholar by any means but reading Lexicons Greek translation there are several terms that have been translated and blanketed under one word- “judge”.If anyone else is interested I will list the different terms and where there are found, but if not, I am not going to say anything else of any value so this would be a good point to stop reading.Anakrinoexamine or judge a.\tto investigate, examine, enquire into, scrutinise, sift, question 1.\tspecifically in a forensic sense of a judge to hold an investigation 2.\tto interrogate, examine the accused or witnesses b.\tto judge of, estimate, determine (the excellence or defects of any person or thing Diakrino• to separate, make a distinction, discriminate, to prefer • to learn by discrimination, to try, decide a.\tto determine, give judgment, decide a dispute • to withdraw from one, desert • to separate one's self in a hostile spirit, to oppose, strive with dispute, contend • to be at variance with one's self, hesitate, doubtDikastesa judge, arbitrator, umpireKrino1.\tto separate, put asunder, to pick out, select, choose 2.\tto approve, esteem, to prefer 3.\tto be of opinion, deem, think, to be of opinion 4.\tto determine, resolve, decree 5.\tto judge a.\tto pronounce an opinion concerning right and wrong 1.\tto be judged, i.e. summoned to trial that one's case may be examined and judgment passed upon it b.\tto pronounce judgment, to subject to censure 1.\tof those who act the part of judges or arbiters in matters of common life, or pass judgment on the deeds and words of others 6.\tto rule, govern a.\tto preside over with the power of giving judicial decisions, because it was the prerogative of kings and rulers to pass judgment 7.\tto contend together, of warriors and combatants a.\tto dispute b.\tin a forensic sense 1.\tto go to law, have suit at law Kriterion• the instrument or means of trying or judging anything a.\tthe rule by which one judges • the place where judgment is given a.\tthe tribunal of a judge b.\ta bench of judges • the matter judged, thing to be decided, suit, caseKritesone who passes or arrogates to himself, judgment on anything a.\tan arbiter b.\tof a Roman procurator administering justice c.\tof God passing judgment on men d.\tof the leaders or rulers of the Israelites If anyone is interested, I can put up another post, with the locations of the different uses of the words I have listed.In Christ James

As some have brought to light, the basis for judgement is established by God. He is the light. It is us men who must search for His thoughts. His nature will always manifest itself regardless of our desires to form Him into our image. I wrote a paper once to illustrate God's ways in terms of judgement. I believe true fear of God comes into one's life as he experiences the holiness of God. Judgement whether through the circumstances one finds himself in or through the illumination of the Word will cause our flesh to tremble, as spoken of in Psalm 119. I hope this article makes sense to those who choose to labor through it."I will endeavor to explain this Biblical precept of God given to us in Numbers chapter 14 and Hebrews 6:4-6. In the Books of the Law and the Prophets we are given stories of men trembling before the awesome glory of God. In the New Testament we also see the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. We see the power of God saving the Israelites and we see the power of God saving the Hebrews at Pentecost. Few generations of men have experienced the glory of God as those who He led out of Egypt and those who lived during the time of the Apostles. When God reveals His glory to man, a very specific biblical precept also manifests itself. This precept is judgment. Numbers chapter 14 and Hebrews 6:4-6 illustrate this precept. Moses writes, “The Lord is long-suffering and abundant in mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression; but He by no means clears the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation.” Numbers 14:18. Moses knows God. He knows that He has been long-suffering and abundant in mercy to him. He also has seen God’s righteous judgment. Moses has just prayed for God’s mercy to spare the children of the congregation. God answers Moses’ cry, “But your little ones, whom you said would be victims, I will bring in, and they shall know the land...” Numbers 14:31. Moses’s prayers were answered. God also declares that because of the men’s unbelief,their children would, “be shepherds in the wilderness forty years, and bear the brunt of your infidelity, until your carcasses are consumed in the wilderness.” Numbers 14:33. Here again God confirms what Moses understood about God’s nature. Moses knew that God’s righteous judgment would stand. We learn from this story that God delayed judgment on the men above the age of 20. He did this to maintain the family structure of His people. Their women and children suffered because of their fathers’ unbelief. But God made provisions for them. Their shoes and clothing did not wear out. They had food. God would train them to follow Him throughout those 40 years. He would prepare a new generation to receive His promises. We also learn, “Now the men whom Moses sent to spy out the land, who returned and made all the congregation complain against him by bringing a bad report of the land, those very men who brought the evil report about the land, died by the plague before the Lord.” Numbers 14:36-37. These men, the watchmen of the congregation, received immediate judgment. Likewise, “So I swore in My wrath, they shall not enter My rest.” illustrates that God also judged those whose carcasses were consumed in the wilderness. God’s people do not receive His wrath. His people are “saved from wrath through Him.” Romans 5:9. The writer of Hebrews warns, “For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For we who have believed do enter that rest.” Hebrews 4:2-3. The writer includes himself in this last statement. Earlier, this writers says in verse 19, “So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.” Belief and unbelief is clearly the mark of those who are saved and those who are condemned. The just shall live by faith. Paul writes to Timothy, “If we endure, we shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us.” 2 Timothy 2:2. We learn in Numbers 14, that the majority of the men rejected God and all those who are guilty will not be cleared of their death sentence. “Because all these men who have seen My glory and the signs which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have put Me to the test now these ten times, and have not heeded My voice, they certainly shall not see the land of which I swore to their fathers, nor shall any of those who rejected Me see it.” Numbers 14:22-23.Paul instructs the Corinthians, “Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.” 1 Corinthians 10:11-12. All the examples written in the Books of the Law and The Prophets are given to us to meditate on. As I stated in the beginning paragraph, men who witness the glory of God to the degree witnessed by those who God led out of Egypt, also witness God’s righteous judgment. We see that His judgment is swift for the watchmen of Israel. We see that the majority of the men are sentenced and live on death row. The irreverence of men in the midst of God’s glory brings judgment. Let me illustrate this precept in both Leviticus 9 and 10 and then in Acts 5.“And Moses and Aaron went into the tabernacle of meeting, and came out and blessed the people. Then the glory of the Lord appeared to all the people, and fire came out from before the Lord and consumed the burnt offering and the fat on the altar. When all the people saw it, they shouted and fell on their faces. Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, each took his censer and put fire in it, put incense on it, and offered profane fire before the Lord, which He had not commanded them. So fire went out from the Lord and devoured them, and they died before the Lord.” Leviticus 9:23-24, 10:1-2. Just like in Numbers 14:10, the glory of the Lord was before all the people. Just like in Numbers 14:37, “those men...died...before the Lord.” In the book of Acts, we find a similar situation. Peter says to Sapphira, “How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Just like in Numbers 14:22, “all these men...have put Me to the test now these ten times,” now we see in Acts the same precept. Ananias and Sapphira drop dead in judgment. “So great fear came upon all the church and upon all who heard these things. And through the hands of the apostles many signs and wonders were done among the people.” Acts 5:11-12. Just like in Numbers 14:11, “...How long will these people reject Me? And how long will they not believe Me, with all the signs which I have performed among them?”, so this same precept exists in the churches of Acts. In generations where God is manifesting His glory, the irreverence of man is not tolerated. “By those who come near Me I must be regarded as holy; and before all the people I must be glorified.” Leviticus 10:3. One may ask, why do we not see the same judgment today? Again going back to the Old Testament we will examine the generation of Eli and his sons. The glory of the Lord was not shown to this generation as it was in the others I have illustrated. “...And the word of the Lord was rare in those days; there was no widespread revelation. And it came to pass at that time, while Eli was lying down in his place, and when his eyes had begun to grow so dim that he could not see, and before the lamp of God went out in the tabernacle of the Lord where the ark of God was...” 1 Samuel 3:1-3. Here we learn that God was not revealing Himself to this generation. The spiritual eyes of the high priest Eli were growing so dim that he could not see. In chapter 2 of Samuel we see that his sons were corrupt, and they did not know the Lord. Also Samuel said to his sons, “Why do you do such things? For I hear of your evil dealings from all the people.” 1 Samuel 2:23. “Nevertheless they did not heed the voice of their father, because the Lord desired to kill them.” verse 26. Eli is judged also. “For I have told him that I will judge his house forever for the iniquity which he knows, because his sons made themselves vile, and he did not restrain them.” 1 Samuel 3:13. In this example, judgment is not immediately carried out as it was for Aaron’s sons. The glory of the Lord was fading for Israel. Israel would soon be defeated by the Philistines and the Ark of God would be captured. Just like in the Old Testament, the same faithlessness will reign in the church. “But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come; for men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away...always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.” 2 Timothy 3:1-7. Paul is talking about the church in the last days. If these people were present during the times of the apostles, they would have met the same fate as Ananias and Sapphira. So having laid a foundation of God’s righteous judgment, I submit that the writer in Hebrews 6:4-6 is just illustrating what I have endeavored to explain. God is the same always. He does not change. Man seeks to create his own god. Thus man breaks the first commandment, “You shall have no other gods before Me.”God always provides for Himself a remnant who live by faith. Even when the Spirit is not poured out on a generation, He has reserved for Himself this remnant. Elijah thought he was the only faithful one in all of Israel, yet what does God say? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal...Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.” Romans 11:3-5. Those who have “tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come if they fall away...they put Him to an open shame.” Hebrews 6:4-6. Just like in the Books of the Law and the Prophets, the irreverence of man will bring God’s wrath upon him. “By those who come near Me I must be regarded as holy; and before all the people I must be glorified.” Leviticus 10:3. God is the same always."The God of the OT is the same. In ChristJeff

Yea, it seems almost everyone is on the same page, but heres my take on it. Paul judged the church of Corinth, and the letter to the church of Galatia in that it was a letter of rebuke was judgement in a sense as well. I think that the issue is however, not identifying the sin with the sinner. As we know the word says "it is no longer I who do it, but the sin living in me." I think it should be taken into account in a great way. I am convinced that if we approach people from an eternal perspective where we see people as they truly are, instead of the infected beings we all are now, we will be able to point out sin clearly. The difference at that vantage point is that we then see sin as an invading force, something hurtful to the person that the sin has occupied. We know that everyones deepest desire (whether they know it or not) is to be able to give ourselves wholly and completely to our God. Then I see the judgement turning from something that is dark to becoming a light of hope for someone to be able to free that area of their heart that they can finally as they were meant to from the dawn of time, surrender that part of their heart to God and put things back just a little more to how they are supposed to be. Judging then isnt hurtful it is helpful. It is then accountability. It is then when "better is an open rebuke than hidden love" for then the judging as odd as it seems is done out of the dearest love. That is how I have seen it, and I really believe that it is the absolute truth. I hope I got across what I mean... God bless!John