Christian Life and Enjoyment

Hello friends,

I've been lurking on these forums for several months have enjoyed my time here. I like to learn and try not to impose my opinions where they aren't required. I would much rather let the Word speak for itself.

After all of my reading here, I have one question that I've not seen anyone ask or answer and it was enough to get me out of the woodwork to ask it. :-)

My question is very sincere and I am interested in knowing the truth.

There is a lot of talk about revival, the seriousness of the state of the world, Jesus's return and living humbly, respectfully and seriously before the Lord. I firmly believe this, too. We have a job to do here. We are here for His pleasure and to do His will and I want to accomplish that above all else.

Here's where my question comes in. How do you feel about fun? About our dreams as human beings? About things we would like to do? From the conversations I've seen here, it would lead someone just lurking to think that we have to be somber monks and never laugh or fulfill a dream we have to own a home or become a tailor or take a vacation to Disney World.

Isn't it part of God's plan for us to enjoy ourselves, here, as well? I'm not talking about living for ourselves. I'm talking about living for God and fulfilling His will for our lives, but to also not neglect our own desires or emotions that don't conflict with His for us.

I'm conflicted by this due to this forum. I want to please God and live a life that honors Him, but did He create me to deny everything about me? If I want to write a novel and have it become a best seller, is this a bad thing? If I want to leave my state and move to another so I can enjoy different climate and surroundings, is this wrong?

I wanted to ask these things because I think it's an important question to address here, based on the serious tone of these forums. This is not a challenge, in any way. I utterly respect and appreciate these forums and all they offer! They benefit my life and I'm very appreciative! I am asking my questions honestly and sincerely and would like as much feedback from people as possible. Thanks.

Dear brother!

It might be that I would rather have my eyes towards fun and pleasure too much then towards God. Where is my desire to draw closer and closer to Him then rather do something fun or enjoy? (God should be my main source of enjoyment!)

[b]1 Tim 4:1-4 (ASV)[/b]
1 God's Spirit clearly says that in the last days many people will turn from their faith. They will be fooled by evil spirits and by teachings that come from demons. 2 They will also be fooled by the false claims of liars whose consciences have lost all feeling. These liars 3 will forbid people to marry or to eat certain foods. But God created these foods to be eaten with thankful hearts by his followers who know the truth. 4 Everything God created is good. And if you give thanks, you may eat anything. 5 What God has said and your prayer will make it fit to eat.

But its also so that God made things for our enjoyment. Who am I too not take the things the Lord give with all thanks? (but also take bitter things with thanksgiving!)

Perhaps its not that enjoying and 'fun' is wrong, but its simply trying to 'enjoy life' without God is wrong.

I remember a sermon from Paul Washer where his wife would love to have certain trinkets where Paul would think that those would be trivial. The Lord gave her this while one would not think that it would benefit the gospel. :-)

[edit] I should add that I am fairly untested at the bitter things, hopefully I am able to give thanks to the Lord even then!

Thank you both for responding. I hope more will take up this conversation because it's not so cut and dry.

I appreciate the scripture you posted, richardf, but I don't think the answer can be as simple as posting a scripture. I've already stated that denying ourselves is a requirement. But, I don't know of any scripture that says "Thou shalt not enjoy thy time on the earth."

If we are to deny pleasure (and I hope I don't have to clarify that I do mean proper pleasures) of all kind in order to "deny ourselves" and not be part of this world, then it would stand to reason that we would deny all of the world's ways. Going to work, for example. Why would we have the drudgeries of this earth placed upon us but denied all pleasure and enjoyment? That's what I don't understand. Wouldn't the Bible be more specific on this if that were the case?

Believe me, I'm not trying to justify having a grand old time. I'm just trying to find some balance in this. If I have a desire in me to become a doctor, some would say that may be what God wants me to become to serve Him. But, what if I have a desire to become a tailor, or an author, or an antique store owner? Do I deny this desire?

How about when it comes to "entertainment." There [i]are[/i] decent movies, are these to be denied? Taking vacations? Wanting to move to another state/city/country, etc.,?

How do we balance these? Prayer, yes. But I think that's too pat of an answer as well.

Again, I'm not trying to find a "clause" to do the things [i]I[/i] want to do. I want to know [i]the truth[/i] and my motives are sincere. It's just that sometimes, conversations here can be so very sombre that it doesn't seem to leave room for an ounce of anything else.

Thank you for your patience.

I want to know the truth and my motives are sincere

I think contentment may play a part in this. Do the things I desire to achieve, possess, or simply use play a part in my being content? Can I have joy without them? Where does my joy come from?

For me, becoming a Christian set me free from many of my old desires. I am now quite happy and content to have very little as far as possessions and status go.

As for fun…this may be different for everybody. I personally love raising plants and gardening. Seeing God at work in creation is something that really satisfies me and I get lots of great sermon and teaching materiel to boot.

I also spend lots of time with my niece and nephew. Little boys are not born knowing how to build paper airplanes. My family is precious to me. I love them…they love me…they make me laugh. I have a tremendous amount of fun with my family.

When I was younger I used to tap my feet and wiggle around, I just couldn’t sit still. I can now sit out on the deck and enjoy God for hours without moving a muscle. I have a peace and contentment that is beyond all understanding.

I once spent a great deal of time designing house plans for my dream home. I no longer do this, for I know there is a mansion waiting for me in glory. My planning is now focused on storing up treasure in Heaven. My Earthly desires have changed. I now wonder what would make Him happy. Seeking His will, in and of its self, brings great joy to me.

I would add that if God told me to build a house or go see Mickey Mouse I would start tomorrow, but on the other hand I am keenly aware that this is not my home. I just don’t care about this place (Earth) like I used to.

It’s kind of funny. The more I quit caring about this life and my happiness…the more I enjoy it.

Just rambling...

Reader,

I think you have gotten some good answers to your question and am not sure I can add a whole lot but will share my understanding of this issue.

Consider Pro 17:22: "A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones." A merry heart - what does it look like in reality? Is it not one that is driven by delight? By joy? one that enjoys life? AMong the most interesting and fun people I know were preachers who loved the LORD but also had a fantastic sense of humor! My preacher-grandfather was among them. He loved laughter and all his offspring/descendants are great at it, me included.

The ability to laugh comes from a heart that is at peace with the world and people, one who accepts the foibles of life and laughs. A merry heart knows what is serious and should be treated as such. But a serious heart also knows what things are trivial and are worthy of being laughed at. Having said all this, let me assure you our fun should be in line with the Scriptures' command to love and be considerate of each other, including our fun, our jokes. (Sure! I can laugh at the old joke of a junk yard being a woman's parking lot, but mind if I say that what happens to a male when he balds? His hair goes underground and grows out of his nose and ears? How do I know? Why, I periodically give my husband haircuts ...)

About occupation. Did you ever think about Paul, that great warrior for God who was a tentmaker? Or, Lydia, the merchant? Nowhere do we read where people abandoned their occupations after they came to the LORD. 1Timothy 5:8: "But if any provide not for, his own, and especially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel." From this scripture we see how a man is expected to provide for his household and failure to do so makes him worse then an infidel. And the women are to care for the house as per Titus 2.

About enjoying things - I would like to share a testimony for whatever it is worth - might not apply to all, but this is what happened to me.

Our 25 YO daughter had just died of cancer and after this happened, I lost all my appetite for food. My DH worked to make me eat. Of course, my appetite came back, but another thing that completely left me was interest in 'things'. I cared not a twit for anything. Oh, sure I went about my duties that was required to sustain life as a mother and wife. In the meantime, God was at work to bring me back to living. He started by giving me a desire for some art we had seen displayed at a religious bookstore. It was expensive and we just do not spend money for frivolous things. But the desire was growing that I "wanted those pictures." I prayed about it and then asked my DH about buying one and he said "go ahead'. Wow! He was giving me the green-light to proceed. I was so delighted and then I wondered which one I should choose, I wanted both but no way could I afford both of them. I asked the LORD for wisdom in making this choice. Off to the city I went trying to figure out which one I like the best and would give me the most comfort. I went to this store, found they had sold both but in talking to the owner I told her what I was looking for and how I really wanted both but could not afford them. And you know what she did? She offered to sell me the prints only and then told me to get them framed privately, that this would be less money! I could hardly believe my good fortune! God had made a way where I could get both prints, get them framed for a little more money then one would have cost. As time went on, these pictures have ministered so much to me and others as well. It was the beginning of God leading me to take an interest in things, in life and go on. Today I still do not have an obsessive interest in things and I take this to be God ordained. And I am content.

Now what were the titles of the art? Blackshear's "Watchers in the Night" and William Hallmarks' pic of the Lion with the lamb and dove resting on his leg.

The bottom line in my opinion is that all should be done to the honor and glory of God and in doing so we need to have a cheerful spirit, a joyful spirit, one that will not get bent out of shape when things go wrong, but accept these things as normal and perhaps God will help you to see the humor in it and then laugh.

My opinion for whatever it is worth.

ginnyrose

PS: BTW: I am told that a person who laughs a lot is a healthy person! And I have also observed that the younger generation does not know how to laugh! :-(

brother mr reader, there are a few verses i would like to share to add to this discussion.

colossians 2:20-23
20 Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21 "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22 These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

colossians 3:15-17
15 Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. 16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. 17 And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

romans 14:17
17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit,

matthew 11:18-29
18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' 19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners." ' [b]But wisdom is proved right by her actions.[/b]"

proverbs 9:10
10 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

brother mr reader, the answer is truly [b]"fear the Lord"[/b]. i know that may not seem to really answer your questions, but brother allow the Lord to show you that all we truly need is to fear Him. as we fear Him, we will live a life that is true, pure, right, holy and pleasing in His sight. we should not subject everyone to our own convictions when it comes to "matters of the heart", but to seek Him and let His Spirit show us what is right and true in our lives. if we really "fear Him", then we will walk in the Spirit and not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

so should i or anyone else give you a list of can do's or can't do's?? i hope not. legalism never honors God, but listening to His voice and living our lives in reverence and veneration unto Him will lead us in His way everlasting.

hope it helps brother,
phil

Again, I do appreciate all of your responses. I know they come from hearts of caring and God's love.

I'm just afraid I'm not making my question clear. Personally, I have no desire to go to Disney World. The items I stated were just examples. I'm not seeking enjoyment. I love the Lord and I want nothing more to please and obey Him. If He asked me to move to Timbuktu to collect wild beetles, I would do it rejoicing!

But, through a couple of YOUR examples, my question can perhaps be made more clear.

ginnyrose had her heart set on two paintings. (And I'm so glad the Father worked out a way for you to get both! From my experience, He tends to work that way!) But, would you have told ginnyrose that her desire for those paintings was just materialism and she should deny this for herself?

tjservant mentioned that he used to enjoy designing his dream home, but gave it up because of the mansion he'll have in heaven. Does this mean that he shouldn't dream of having a home on the earth?

I'm not a musician, but if a Christian was a talented musician (or writer, or artist) should they never pursue making a CD, publishing a book or selling a painting because this is considered a worldly thing?

If a young Christian dreams of being a pilot, should she deny this?

Do you see what I'm asking? What I'm asking isn't about [i]not[/i] being content, it's not about [i]seeking[/i] pleasure. It's about being human beings, designed by God and placed on this earth, that He designed, for a time. I just have a hard time believing that God would place us here only to ask us to deny everything about it and be content with reading the Word or watching a sunset.

We have to work or we won't eat. That's biblical. Is it wrong to pursue a career that we long for? And, once we begin working, is it wrong to want a vacation? After all, it's not healthy to work [i]all the time[/i].

This is what I'm asking. I hope it's more clear now. If not, I'm very sorry. I don't know how to make it more clear than this.

I so appreciate all of your responses. I think I enjoyed tjservant more than the rest. He is obviously not 25.
I thank God for my 64 years of good health. I also thank Him for His patience with me, as I pursued so many follies in my life. I looked for God in most of the wrong places. I sought to satisfy my flesh (impossible task) instead of worship and give thanks to my Holy God Who deserves my living sacrifice.
As I near the end of the trail, I look back and I realize that in all my follies, I have learned many things, especially in my failures.
It is written in His Word that we should taste and see that the Lord is good.
Oh, He cannot be other than good. He cannot be other than love, for He cannot deny Himself.
See, religion is all about learning what is good and bad and our vain pursuit of self rigteousness. But that I mean that we are continually struggling with personal effort and strength to "be a good person". Christianity is all about trusting in our God Who cannot fail, and leave the outcome to Him. Those who labor in their spirit over their concerns about if they have been bad or good have not entered into the "REST" that comes only by faith in what Christ did for us on the cross. When I place my eternal hope in what He did for me, not only am I saved, not only are my sins washed away forever, but I have His righteousness bestowed upon me. Oh there is my rest from my works. Alleluia, glory be to God for His victory over my sin. Bless His Holy Name forever and ever amen. Paul says we are saved to the uttermost. That means that we cannot be more saved than we are. Therefore, I can rest. Alleluia!
Solomon said, and I believe, that everything under the sun is vanity. See, we live in this world, but we are not of this world. Would you like to talk about joy, happiness and real contentment?
Being used of God to touch or bless another, is the greatest thrill a human being can experience. If that touch or blessing leads to changing the eternal consequences of another, oh my, what could be better than that. It will make your cup run over.
Also, when we abandon the cares of religion, and begin to pursue God, guess what? We find the Holy One Who alone can flood the soul with His glory. Paul said if we draw near to God, GOD DRAWS NEAR TO US!!!!! He changes the desires of our hearts from foolishness to burning love and the desire to obey Him. It's not something I have to do or learn.
I don't know about you, friend. But at times in my life, God has opened up the vail of heaven and let just a smiggen of His glory flood into my soul. It is joy unspeakable. I could never find the words to express the splendor that occurs when that happens. I know of nothing that brings forth so much joy and heart felt happiness. Glory to God.
I shall for all eternity remember the first time it occured. Oh my, I wept and wept and worshiped, real worship. You don't need a class on worship to know what to do when God shows up inside. Worship is the natural response to His presence.
Paul said every knee should bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Why? Because in His presence, all will worship, saint and heathen alike. Charles Manson will worship the Lord Jesus Christ, before he is condemned forever, lest he repent.
I could go on and on, dear friend. But by now I hope you understand that you need not have to resort to your own understanding. God is worthy of my trust. When I'm bad, He is still good, and has my best interest at heart. I have been corrected so many times they are countless. Never has His correction been too harsh, nor underserved. Thanks be to God that He loves me that much.
Personal experience and relationship with God surpasses all the world has to give. It is joy unspeakable and full of His glory. Accept no substitutes. Seek an you shall find. Seek until you find. Cry out that you cannot stand another day without knowing Him personally by the oppotunity afforded each one of us through the great sacrifice of His Son Jesus.
Obey His commandments? Oh yes. Read John 14. Pay close attention to vs 21. Oh the promise it contains without fail. It says that if we obey His commandments (love God with all our heart, and our neighbor as ourselves) we WILL be blessed by the Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ will manifest Himself to anyone who dare obey His Word.
Now be careful with the love of God and neighbor. It's more than a warm fuzzy feeling. It is something we do. Love of God is worship. Love of neighbor is service, charity. Doing unexpected things, led by the Spirit of God for another. Don't expect Jesus to reveal Himself to you in a cloud of smoke and lightening. He can, but I dont' think that is what vs 21 is talking about. He will reveal Himself in the most unexpected way, in and through another Human Being. See, He said that when we do it to the least of these, we do it unto Him. Oh glory, dont' miss Him right under your nose. Reaching out and helping another, who cannot possibly pay you back, is where you will find Him.
Well, I could go on and on here. If you want more, just pm me and I'll share what I've learned with you, delighted to do so. But one thing more. It's very import. Paul said to follow after the Spirit, and we would not fulfill the desires of the flesh. I think this has been mentioned here already. There is no substitute to following God's leading, will, and purpose in what we say and do. Not even Jesus had this luxury, for He was continually leaving His disciples and the multitudes, and going to speak to the Father. He said He did not do or say anything, without first checking in with the throne of Heaven.
See, when you check in with God, you don't have to plan, schedule, or decide. Just keep going to God until He reveals the next step to you. Then you know whatever you do, is His will, and will succeed. Want to be successful in this life? Follow Him. Want to have joy? Get in His presence, for in His presence there is fullness of joy. Rest from your religious works, follow the Spirit, and leave the outcome to God. You may not understand, but all you need to do, is simply hold His Hand. Follow God, and you will be amazed at what He will reveal to you, for you, and through you. Alleluia, and amen.

"0"

First of all, after reading your additional post I would still respond the way I did, but I will add a few things to it…by way of reply.

tjservant mentioned that he used to enjoy designing his dream home, but gave it up because of the mansion he'll have in heaven. Does this mean that he shouldn't dream of having a home on the earth?

I do not believe I was clear about the change of heart that took place in my situation. The fact of the matter is that my desires changed. I was designing and dreaming of ways to satisfy myself. My satisfaction (contentment) is no longer something I seek to provide for myself in this way

I'm not a musician, but if a Christian was a talented musician (or writer, or artist) should they never pursue making a CD, publishing a book or selling a painting because this is considered a worldly thing?

Only the person responsible will stand at the judgment seat and be asked to justify these endeavors. Motivation is the governing principle at issue here. I personally do intend to write a book.

I just have a hard time believing that God would place us here only to ask us to deny everything about it and be content with reading the Word or watching a sunset.

He asks (commands) that we deny self.

He provides all things...this includes contentment…and it is found only in Him.

by dorcas on 2008/4/8 9:49:20
MrReader asked
Quote:

If a young Christian dreams of being a pilot, should she deny this?

Surely this depends on her being able-bodied and suitable for training? No-one is saying it is wrong to dream or to do\\become what God has put in your heart. But, this was not really the question you asked originally.

Actually, yes, it was.

Here's where my question comes in. How do you feel about fun? About our dreams as human beings? About things we would like to do?

Here's where my question comes in. How do you feel about fun? About our dreams as human beings? About things we would like to do?

I mentioned things like moving, writing, and vacations but neglected to specifically mention jobs.

I did explain that I was talking about our dreams and desires [u][b]that do not conflict with His for us.[/b][/u] That was my qualifier to rule out the "partying" and "being selfish" and "rebellious" interpretations.

To be honest, I feel that my posts [i]are[/i] being misread that way. I did state that...

1. God is my priority. Obeying Him and denying myself is a reality.

2. That I'm not seeking "pleasure" for pleasure's sake. I'm not placing pleasure above God. I'm seeking to honor God with my life. (This is where the misreading of my post seems to be coming in.)

3.

I'm talking about living for God and fulfilling His will for our lives, but to also not neglect our own desires or emotions [u]that don't conflict with His for us.[/u]

Some of the responses don't seem to be taking points I've made into account. Rather, they appear to overlook them, treating my questions as if I'm just out to have a blast and do whatever I want to do. This simply isn't the case. I'm not trying to be unkind, but I [i]am[/i] being honest.

I gave examples. I don't want to be a pilot or a musician. They're examples of what I'm talking about. These aren't what the Bible is talking about when it says, "What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit his very self?' I'm not trying to gain the whole world, I'm trying to avoid legalism and live in truth by asking if it's okay to pursue some things in my heart that don't appear to be conflicting with what I know to be God's plan for me.

If someone wanting to be a florist, an artist, an author, a teacher a lawyer, or an architect, or wants to take a vacation, is "losing yourself" then fine, count me lost. I don't see it that way. The Lord [b][i][u]does[/u][/i][/b] come first in my life. I just have not had any clear direction from the Lord about my job and I do need a vacation. There are things I would like to pursue but I [i]don't[/i] want to be disobedient, hence my questions. I have the matter in prayer already. I just wanted the counsel of Godly people who are not following the Americanized version of Christianity where anything goes. (But it's also not a case where "nothing goes.") I wanted to ask people who also understand that reading the Bible and watching sunsets don't have to be our only source of enjoyment and "fun."

Thanks, again, tj.

I understood your change of heart. And I think it's great! But still, would it be wrong of you to want a house to live in? Say, for example, you're renting an apartment but you'd like to have a house to live in. Do you have to deny yourself this? If so, what about Christians who own homes already. Should they sell their homes to rent because they'll have their own home in heaven some day?

See, THIS is the side of the coin I'm trying to get at.

You said you intend to write a book. There are those who say the Bible is all we need. If you have a DESIRE to publish a book, is this part of God's COMMAND to deny yourself? After all, what can you add to God's Word? You said

He asks (commands) that we deny self.
He provides all things...this includes contentment…and it is found only in Him.

Aren't you content NOT writing a book? Again, THIS is the aspect of this that I'm trying to get at with my questions. At what point is it legalism and at what point is it obedience?

So, how is the command to deny ourselves reconciled with these issues?

Again, I'm not trying to debate or challenge anyone to anything. I'm trying to understand this on a whole, complete level, and not just the top layer of it.