Grieve not the holy spirit Question

P

poet Apr 11, 2008

Wednesday night our pastor did a teaching on the Holy spirit, he did quote some stuff from Benny Hinn and Kathryn Kuhlman... Im willing to overlook...
but he read us this story and Im confused.
Ill type it out and ask a question and hope I can get some ballance and understanding..
I dont want to grieve the Holy Spirit of God, yet I want to be discerning also.

Here it is.

This is a recount of a AG pastor...
In our first year pastoring in this district, Fort Worth pator Des Evans was the guest speaker at the Ministers' Institute. He was-and is -incredible. On the opening night, there was a special moving of the Holy Spirit during his preaching. It was if the sides of the church opened and the wafting breezes of the Spirit filled the building. The hundreds gathered fell on their faces before God even though there was hardly an sound. It was too holy to make sound. God's Spirit was doing something special in us.
However, being Pentecostal, the worship team felt the silence was unbearable and went to their instruments on the platform and began belting out loud and fast music, doubtless thinking they were helping. INSTANTLY, the presence of God vanished as did the speaker,
Des Evans.
The service quickly ended. The next night when the speaker was introduced,he walked sadly into the pulpit and said quietly and simply,
"Last night, you grieved my God. Good night."
And he left the pulpit and the building. My friend, in our pursuit of the Holy Spirit it is not ONE SIZE FITS ALL. We can not be one-dimensional in our attitude toward the Spirit. We need to know when to rejoice, praise and worship, and we need to know when to be quiet. If you and I are out of line, contrary to what the Holy Spirit wants to do, he will leave.......

end of story.....

Question:
Is playing music, Grieving the Holy Spirit?
or is sinning or holding onto sin Grieving the Holy Spirit?

Im not sure how when in the presence of God when in our nervousness or excitement when we may dance or shout halleluah. or praise his mighty name or play a instrument could Grieve Him....

any thoughts, or possible motives behind such storys to tell a church... ?
Am I not allowed to test a spirit when HE or it(it meaning not god) comes into a church???
All these questions should not offend God. im sure.
Thanks. :-)

sermonindex Apr 11, 2008

Is playing music, Grieving the Holy Spirit?

Wrong question for the story. The subject is not about music, it's about being sensitive to the moving of the holy Spirit. The question that should be asked is, do you think the band members were out of line?

A resounding YES.

I've seen this done so many times when the Spirit of God is moving and BAM someone strikes up the band. Someone should have beckoned them to stop playing telling them that there is a time for this but not right now.

There is a time and a place for music, worship and praise, but that night it was a time for silence a "holy hush" as it were. The enemy doesn't want anyone free, he'd move on anyone that is able to be moved to break up the silence of what God was doing that night.

I have seen this so many times and it's just heart wrenching. I have witnessed my Pastor grieve the holy Spirit. So it's just not the laity it's also the clergy that can be the problem.

C

Christinyou Apr 12, 2008

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Mar 1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:

Luk 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Jhn 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

Have you ever watched a dove? Last night there were two, a male and female eating in the dirt road about 20 feet from me. I sat down and watched. If there was no disturbance they were very involved with eating and each other.

I began to call as a male dove, the male that was in front of me perked up his head and listened intently. I did it once more, the dove fluttered up in the air looking for the other dove. He flew to a high perch and watched, then came close to his mate, still a high perch above, searching intently. When he saw there was no threat, he came back to the ground and intently reassured his mate that he was back and after making himself clearly her mate and protector, they began gingerly to eat and pay much attention to each other.

That is how the Holy Spirit is, He will not force Himself on others and if there is danger, He will make His presence know to the danger and protect The Lord Jesus' Bride. When He comes back He will begin to fill the Bride with His presence, and teach us who this Christ is that is in us.

John 14,15,16,and 17 give us a total picture of what the Holy Spirit does. Christ said, He would be our Teacher 7 times and what He would do.

He is like Christ the Lamb of God, The Holy Spirit as the Dove of God. They are not anything but loving and that is how we must receive them, Christ our life and the Holy Spirit the Teacher of the Life.

This is how the Christ in us woks and the Holy
Spirit also. Put Christ in the appropriate place and the Holy Spirit will follow. Christ Is Charity, Love.

1 Corinthians 13:1-13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. (Have they come?)

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

For even Christ became obedient by the things He suffered.

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Do you know Him.

In Christ: Phillip

sermonindex Apr 12, 2008

Phillip said

Have you ever watched a dove? Last night there were two, a male and female eating in the dirt road about 20 feet from me. I sat down and watched. If there was no disturbance they were very involved with eating and each other.
I began to call as a male dove, the male that was in front of me perked up his head and listened intently. I did it once more, the dove fluttered up in the air looking for the other dove. He flew to a high perch and watched, then came close to his mate, still a high perch above, searching intently. When he saw there was no threat, he came back to the ground and intently reassured his mate that he was back and after making himself clearly her mate and protector, they began gingerly to eat and pay much attention to each other.
That is how the Holy Spirit is, He will not force Himself on others and if there is danger, He will make His presence know to the danger and protect The Lord Jesus' Bride. When He comes back He will begin to fill the Bride with His presence, and teach us who this Christ is that is in us.

I loved your answer here, and this too:

He is like Christ the Lamb of God, The Holy Spirit as the Dove of God. They are not anything but loving and that is how we must receive them,

Amen.

If you've ever sat with a bunch of lambs, they know no fear (as long as you sit still), and will nibble investigatively your face and clothes! But they are not like goats, which would ~~[i]~~eat[/i] your clothes! Lambs are really cute! And soft.

sermonindex Apr 12, 2008

Hi poet,

I want to be discerning also

Compliments has given you the right answer to most of your post, and I'm not sure if one of the reasons you've been ruffled by this word through your pastor, is that the Holy Spirit ~~[i]~~~~[b]~~is[/i][/b] speaking to you.... Just wondering, here, if you are part of the music ministry in your church now... (I have the feeling you've posted a while ago, about things which were happening in the church you were attending, which were not okay at all, and you moved to another church because you wanted to be able to trust the leadership there...? Please remind me.) Certainly you're listening to a man of God in leadership, now. According to Carter Conlon, one of his jobs is to face the saints at TSC with the sin in their lives, that they might be purified and pleasing to God. But (different discussion) this is about being renewed after the likeness of Christ and I'm ~~[u]~~not[/u] saying it is 'sin' to be ~~[u]~~un[/u]discerning.

You can't expect to be part of a ~~[i]~~good[/i] church and ~~[u]~~not[/u] be faced with the word of God: that is, His intention is to push you the way He wants you to go. He ~~[i]~~also[/i] wants you to become more discerning.

Perhaps this is one reason your pastor had the liberty of the Spirit to share that true story? Believe me, if you have ever been in a silence like the one your pastor related, you ~~[u]~~do not want[/u] to be the one responsible for interrupting it. All that does is prove that there is more room for spiritual growth in your life. (I speak from experience of being 'the one' ;-) )

If you want to armour-proof yourself from being ~~[i]~~needled[/i] by such and gradual adjustments, I suggest you get ahead with the Lord, and deeply consider if you are going to through with God ~~[i]~~whatever it takes[/i]. And tell Him so. And when you feel pangs in the future, ~~[u]~~know[/u] this is your prayer coming home to roost; thank, praise and worship Him, and let His word do its work in you, ~~[i]~~knowing[/i] you are ~~[i]~~loved ~~[b]~~of God[/b][/i].

And, bear this couple of lines from Wesley in mind:

'Sharp are the arrows of Thy love
And pierce the most obdurate heart...'

None of us wants to discover we have an 'obdurate heart', because Jesus' heart was not like that...

In another hymn, Wesley spends a lot more time in the matter of being touched by the love of God. I guess your name means you appreciate poetry, so, here it is in part... actually, here's the whole thing... It's one of those hymns you can't sing ~~[i]~~only pretending[/i] you mean it. You have to keep your mouth shut for the lines you are not ready to ~~[u]~~eat[/u] with all your heart! (For instance - 'all' - in the first verse...)

:-)

My God! I know, I feel Thee mine,
And will not quit my claim,
Till all I have is lost in Thine,
And all renewed I am.

I hold Thee with a trembling hand,
But will not let Thee go,
Till steadfastly by faith I stand,
And all Thy goodness know.

When shall I see the welcome hour,
That plants my God in me!
Spirit of health, and life, and power,
And perfect liberty!

Jesus, Thine all victorious love
Shed in my heart abroad;
Then shall my feet no longer rove,
Rooted and fixed in God.

Love only can the conquest win,
The strength of sin subdue,
(My own unconquerable sin)
And form my soul anew.

Love can bow down the stubborn neck,
The stone to flesh convert,
Soften, and melt, and pierce, and break
An adamantine heart.

O that in me the sacred fire
Might now begin to glow,
Burn up the dross of base desire,
And make the mountains flow!

O that it now from heaven might fall,
And all my sins consume!
Come, Holy Ghost, for Thee I call,
Spirit of burning, come!

Refining fire, go through my heart,
Illuminate my soul;
Scatter Thy life through every part,
And sanctify the whole.

No longer then my heart shall mourn,
While, purified by grace,
I only for His glory burn,
And always see His face.

My steadfast soul, from falling free,
Shall then no longer move;
But Christ be all the world to me,
And all my heart be love.

Here's a tune for it, instead of 'Buckley' which I can't find online.

~~[url=http://www.cyberhymnal.org/mid/i/r/i/irish.mid]~~Irish[/url]

P

poet Apr 12, 2008

thank you for your answer dear saints...
to answer a couple questions, yes I did leave a church about a year ago,, It was just before easter last year..... still healing....
And No I am not in the music ministry,,, I couldnt play the kazoo if my life depended upon it. haha..
I was curious about the whole idea, because If I was a music minister or like some churches the music ministry is done by alot of youth,, or young adults,,, and to be that strongly admonished by a minister and then walk out of a church I feel like that would kill me...I dont know if I could even go to that church anymore or any church after that big of an embarassment...
But the example of the Doves explains alot and I do sence or feel that God wants to have an intimate and quiet relationship when he softly speaks to our hearts and wooo us as it were.
The flip side.... a negative side to my caution is this....
If I was to be discerning or start to question the source of a Spirit,,, due to many factors,, doctrine, or type of manifestation ie unruly or crude, unchrist like...
they might play the dont grieve the holy spirit trump card to keep those who know the real from the false and would want to point it out....

But yes I am comming out of a bad situation and so now my eyes are looking through everything someone says at church anymore a little more critically.... But I am staying quiet and just talking things through at home with the wife and praying about it...
And of course asking people here who probably know alot more than me...
Thanks again for your answers and God Bless you.

S

sojourner7 Apr 12, 2008

The Holy Spirit is the Third Person of the
Trinity. He cares, He counsels, He ministers
He reveals Christ. And yes, He can be grieved
when He is left out of worship because one of His
purposes is to glorify Christ!!

E

elected Apr 13, 2008

Hi Poet i read your post but i was not really convinced that the quietness in the church was a sign of the presence of the Holy Spirit moving among people. the evidence of power of the Holy Spirit being present is not quietness but conviction of sin, repentance and confession of sin and exaltation of Christ.

Quietness is not the fruit of the Spirit, you can enter a mosque, or visit a temple where they worship gods,as they do in india or elsewhere and you can sense a precence quietness or reverance in the air but that doesnt mean that the Spirit of God is there.

To make things a litle bit simple as far as i understand, greiving the Holy Spirit question was somehow unrelated or unapplied to the story or circumstance you told us.People felt something,a quiet presence its not an indication of Spirit presence.

sermonindex Apr 13, 2008

Hi Poet i read your post but i was not really convinced that the quietness in the church was a sign of the presence of the Holy Spirit moving among people. the evidence of power of the Holy Spirit being present is not quietness but conviction of sin, repentance and confession of sin and exaltation of Christ

Only those that are not convinced are those that do not believe in the manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit and the moving of the Holy Ghost. Since you haven't experienced this quiet moving of the holy Spirit, you do not qualify to judge this situation.

Do you know all God's ways? Is it always to convict? Why can't He just speak to His people, encourage and uplift.

Paul even tells us to move on to perfection, NOT LAYING AGAIN THE FOUNDATION OF REPENTANCE. There is a time that we must move on.

When we are filled with the holy Spirit it's to them that have obeyed Him and have repented. When the holy Spirit fills us it's joy unspeakable and full of glory.

When the holy Spirit shows up, miracles and healings occur. Yes, conviction of sin and repentance does play it's part, thats the whole purpose of these acts of God.

At Azusa street there were times of quietness when the people were musing in their hearts the things of God the fire fell.

Do you not get alone with God and just be silent in His presence? Does He speak to you through His word in quietness? Do you sometimes have to settle your mind down from racing and just get your mind on the LORD, after rebuking thoughts, tearing down strongholds, and images?

God doesn't need our help! You don't have to fall on your face, or prostrate to prove your repenting, you can do that right in your seat. Cornelius and all those that were with him received the baptism of the holy Ghost while sitting listening to the word. The holy Ghost showed up, but there was nothing there that said anything about conviction and repentance. It does say they all spoke in tongues.