Human Understanding- Modern or otherwise....

Due to the subject matter of understanding, perception, "world view" being touched upon in another thread I would like to bring it to discussion in hopefully a more thorough venue:

"The entrance of Thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple."
Psalm 119:130

Here we stand, humans formed from the dust of the earth, often foolish, often deceived as we were from the beginning, full of pride and every evil thing imaginable, (as well as some unimaginable); those who belong to Christ know that without HIM our own understanding is stupid and foolish.

It concerns me that we so often endeavor to be "right", seeking out some human form to prove or disprove. The wise man, or woman for that matter, is those that seek to be approved by God. Even those that may have "Biblical knowledge" need to remember: "Knowledge puffeth up, but love edifies."

"Let my cry come before Thee, O Lord, give me understanding according to Thy Word."
Psalm 119:169

"For the Lord giveth wisdom; out of His mouth cometh knowledge and understanding." Proverbs 2:6

"Discretion shall preserve thee, understanding shall keep thee." Pv.2:11

You, whoever you are, that believe that "modern understanding" should somehow be glorified or magnified above spiritual understanding, have only shown yourself to be foolish. Modern, or post modern, current thought, or scientific approach, name it what you will: It is still all foolishness in light of the eternities! It still falls to the ground lifeless and powerless, it's only way of influence being deception; even as it was from the very beginning.

"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine own understanding." Pv. 3:5

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding." Pv. 9:10

"Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes and see not, and have ears and hear not: 'Fear ye not Me?' Saith the Lord: 'will ye not tremble at My Presence...." Jeremiah 5:21, and part of 22

One day we shall stand before the Holy Lord of glory, every thought, every word, every work will be tried by the fire of His holiness and His absolute wisdom! How foolish to think that we can keep some human form of understanding and muddle it together with some form of Christianity! We would do nothing more than create the works of our own hands, which will burn together with all the rest of this world.

I am thankful that I see those whose hearts would desire to learn FROM GOD! That regardless of our own disagreements would seek to know the voice of the LORD. That restrain when their natural inclinations is to "lay into"; or even speak up when their natural inclination is to be quiet.

My prayer for us ALL, who desire to know the voice of the Lord, to have His understanding; would be that we would all grow up into the head, which is Christ. That we may all recognize that our own understanding faileth, but Christ's does not. That one day the imminent, perfect, beautiful, glory of Christ would bind our hearts together in such a way that we would speak the voice, have the same mind (that mind which is of Christ Jesus), and press towards that same goal.

"Then opened He their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures." Luke 24:45

"Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the dusputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?" 1 Cor.1:19

"That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him:

The eyes of your understanding being enlightened;
that you may know what is the hope of His calling,
and what the riches of His glory of His inheritance in the saints,
and what is the exceeding greatness of His power
to usward who believe,
according to the working of His mighty power...."
Ephesians 1:18,19

I know there is much more that can be said on this issue, I have only slightly touched on it. I am not trying to prove anything, except maybe that God can take the foolish things of this world, such as myself, and teach even the simple His word. (Sorry for the lengthiness..)

Open to your thoughts,
a sister in Christ

Due to the subject matter of understanding, perception, "world view" being touched upon in another thread I would like to bring it to discussion in hopefully a more thorough venue:

I'm not sure what thread you're referring to so I may be taking this in the totally wrong direction but what you wrote seemed to tie into a train of thought I have been meditating on lately.

Thinking of these two verses in unison:
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

How often do we fail to see the bigger picture. We get so focused on the other person, the offending party or the point we feel so strongly we have to defend that we lose sight of the true battle. We are all too human and how sad we will be when we remember these incidents with clear vision and realize that all too often we were engaging in the wrong battle.
HopeInChrist

How often do we fail to see the bigger picture. We get so focused on the other person, the offending party or the point we feel so strongly we have to defend that we lose sight of the true battle. We are all too human and how sad we will be when we remember these incidents with clear vision and realize that all too often we were engaging in the wrong battle.

AMEN!!

No doubt we are all too human, and I have been terribly guilty of loosing sight of the bigger picture to prove some point myself. Not that I'm perfect at it now at all; but most of the time the flesh I'm guilty of wrestling with is my own and leaning how to recognize my own flesh rising up has been helpful.

But none of those things are easy. It is not easy to look at another human being, regardless of weather they were "right" or "wrong" and have to back down, apologize, be quiet!

As an old hymn says: "Oh how precious are the lessons that I learn at Jesus' side."

I'm sure that most of my lessons have been due to my own hard-headedness; and being humbled by the Lord and other people have sometimes been difficult lessons.

Yet the most difficult are those that happen when my own words and actions have been left to bring a fruition; and I have seen with my eyes and felt with a broken heart the devastating results of those things.

I would rather have my heart broken often, by the Lord, on this earth, then have to wait to see it until the day of Judgement!

Thank you, so much for your response. Blessings to you in Christ.

Lori

Well we live in an information age, so it's not surprising we can deluge each other with the stuff of this age. ;-) Myself being an insatiable omnivorous reader, talking about what I know can hinder and even hurt honest fellowship.

So I appreciate the reminder in this thread. This morning I read Paul's admonition in 1 Corinthians 8 which sounded something like this to me: "Okay, we've established that we all have a bunch of knowledge. Good for us; we are a very educated and astute people, even regarding the bible. Now somehow in all this learning, we must be careful to remember that knowledge makes us arrogant, but love edifies. So, If anyone supposes that he knows anything, if he really is in 'the know'... he'll understand that he doesn't know anything as he ought to know. This is not to conclude that all study of the Bible leads to agnostic despair but simply to put our simple biblical knowledge into the infinitely wise perspective of the author; if even a bible simpleton loves God, this simpleton is known by God.

MC

So I appreciate the reminder in this thread. This morning I read Paul's admonition in 1 Corinthians 8 which sounded something like this to me: "Okay, we've established that we all have a bunch of knowledge. Good for us; we are a very educated and astute people, even regarding the bible. Now somehow in all this learning, we must be careful to remember that knowledge makes us arrogant, but love edifies. So, If anyone supposes that he knows anything, if he really is in 'the know'... he'll understand that he doesn't know anything as he ought to know. This is not to conclude that all study of the Bible leads to agnostic despair but simply to put our simple biblical knowledge into the infinitely wise perspective of the author; if even a bible simpleton loves God, this simpleton is known by God.

Amen! Great paraphrasing!

How very true that since we live in an information age we value the sharing of that information so highly. I like (some)information as well as anyone, I find it interesting and have studied various topics from history and such; but fellowship.... ah lovely fellowship! the sharing of information does little to compare to the wonder, beauty and grace of true fellowship!

And how awesome a thought that fellowship is available to be had with the Father and the Son- shared together by those who listen to the voice of the Holy Spirit. It is truly a great gift in this world of great tradegy and struggle! and far supercedes the info highway of this present age!

Thank you so much for your reminder!

For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

Thank you Katy, I appreciate the addition of these verses.

Dear Mr. Bub,

Firstly I did not intentionally call any one a fool, although I still believe that to elevate the human mind above God's treasures of wisdom and knowledge is foolish.

By the way, I would hope and pray that I get a surgeon that not only know how to sew flesh together, but recognizes that it's healing together is a miracle put there by the Creator! (which by the way is what I have heard several doctors say.. these are not my words.)

But I will not fear man, nor death, nor others strange beliefs; I choose to fear God alone! For when all the scientific knowledge on this earth can no longer help me and I breath my last breath, which I believe God knows beforehand, I will stand before the Judge of all who knows ALL things.

(previous post edited for a couple of spelling errors... sorry..)

I have been considering and asking God concerning issues regarding our human understanding and willingness to promote our own "stand"; as opposed to endeavor to learn God's stand.

While I am weak in my ability to express the overflow in my heart; please bear with me:

Firstly, I want to mention the fact that I am very greatful for the opportunity to be able to express anything on a forum such as this. It is a gift that not everyone around this world has. Perhaps I should be more quiet and content with what is at hand, instead of wanting to express? Perhaps God will reveal to me where that desire comes from.

Secondly, Every person who is born of the Spirit of God has something to learn from another person under the direction of the Holy Spirit. I have learned much by simply observing, listening and being willing. (although as someone once told me, "everyone is an example, but not everyone is a good example.')

Mostly: God is perfect in ALL His ways! He knows ALL things! He is ABLE to do abundantly more than anyone can ask or think!

That to me is Wonderful!!

"For those who live according tothe flesh set thier minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. " Romans 8:5,6

Pretty much, thats it.

I want God to keep me, and ALL His people in a place of "life and peace".

I want to know the difference of whatis and what is NOT; of what is a stumbling block to "life and peace"; of what would hinder, "life and peace"; of what would cause me to try to establish my own pathway of life and of peace that really end up being a pathway towards "death and destruction".

And I pray that every person that names the name of Christ would have the opportunity to see that difference as well.

In Christ
our sweetest gain
the only hope
the best refrain

Jesus said, My Words are Spirit and they are life

Not that I have any desire to simply prolong the discussion; but due to what, to me, was light on the subject, I hoped I could have the opportunity to share...

While beginning my evening scripture reading in 1Corinthians a couple days ago, I could not get past the first 2 chapters, reading and rereading them over and over. I know I only see "in part", but it was almost as though a particular verse I could not get past was pointing out to me some of the questions I have had in times past about many things currently "plaguing" the modern churchworld, and its inoperative attempts to find true revival.

Perhaps it will be so to none else, but it was for me.

Paul, speaking to the church at Corinth mentioned several things out of order before he mentions others; one of the first being:

"Now I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,

(which to me is a very powerful way of getting a Christians attention! That name which is above every name, that name to whom we owe our whole beings, that name that is precious to God and to those who know Him)

..that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you;

(WOW! I have never seen that in my whole life; not in the church as a whole. Although I have within fellowship; people of diverse backgrounds and perspectives- perhaps saying it in different ways- but nevertheless it was the same...The same miraculous power of God to save, to deliver, to redeem, to keep, to convict, to humble, to bring joy and comfort in the midst of trial; to whom we pray and beseech on behalf of, our loved ones- and those who struggle nearby and far away.)

...but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

(judgement: in Strongs- "cognition"; in the dictionary- cognition: knowing, preceiving, or conceiving as an act of faculty.)

..For it has been declared unto me...... that there are contentions among you.....

(the next words struck me as an arrow in my heart!)

Is Christ divided?

(Of course my answer is NO; but the question reverberates in my heart even now.)

(Paul goes on, and there is much between these verses in Chpt. 1 and those in Chpt. 2, but I was so amazed by them, I had to view them in this way..)

"And I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling.
And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing (or persuasive) words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power..

(again this next verse shook me,)

That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God."

(We seem to be the generation that was spoken of that has PILED up teachers to themselves....so many people, so many words, so many teachings...
It almost seems like the more we learn, the less we DO.... It makes me wonder, are we, the churchworld as a whole, listening more to the wisdom of men? Just a question I ask myself as well.

The power of God... Ravenhill spoke of it, so has Kieth Daniels, so did AW Tozer, many, many precious men of God speak and have seen the power of God! There are many more I do not even know, I am only speaking of personal experience having heard them, and seen some of them.

I still remember the prayer of Ravenhill before he began to preach: "Lord we ask, as Isaiah spoke: 'OH, that you would rend the heavens and come down'. Praying in earnest heaviness and tears.

I was somewhat amazed when I listened to the questions and answer time from the last revival conference at the many differences in personality and background of the various speakers. Though they spoke with various emphasis, the messages they were speaking were mostly the same, because they focus- their understanding comes from the perspective that- God is the MOST valuable, glorifying His Son is the MOST important, being the MOST respectable representative is of UTMOST importance!

The central focus always being that GOD IS, and we respond to Him as is due Him! (please excuse my simplistic way of summerizing it)

In some ways, there is a sense that we MUST be focused appropriately; lay aside our divisions; purpose to BE what God in Christ Jesus intends for us to BE;

make sure of the placement of our faith and our devotion; STAND in Christ; BEND low towards Christ first- and then our fellow brothers and sisters; LISTEN to His voice- careful our own does not drown Him out;

and most important in this late hour (that most men of God I have ever heard have said!) REPENT! of the works of our own hands, our dual allegences, our lack of being or doing, our lack of humility, our self inflated views, our desire for riches and things, the imprint of this modern worlds base mentality, our lack of tears, our lack of fervency, our jaded perspective on the body of Christ, our busy lives full of self promotion, our pride of life.

"Oh to grace how great a debtor daily I'm constrained to be, let THY goodness like a fetter bind my wandering soul to Thee. Prone to wander, Lord I feel it, Prone to leave the God I love. Here's my heart, Oh take a seal it; Seal it for Thy courts above.")

Thanks for your patience, and the opportunity.
God Bless

thank you sister, a very nice post ....

here is a video in somewhat the same terms

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z3pYCiCtVo

Lory: Thank you for the reminder.

There is a realm of human understanding that is very useful and good. God did not endow us with intelligence and creativity for nothing. The surgeon definitely needs to use all of the human creativity and understanding that he has at his disposal.

However, he is an unwise surgeon who does not also realize that his own understanding is a gift from God and that it is weak and limited due to his human frame. He is wise who calls on God and says, "God, my own understanding is limited and I desperately need your wisdom."

The problem comes when we seek to substitute our own limited human understanding in the realm where only God's spiritual wisdom will suffice. It is then we get lifted up with pride and fall, often taking many others with us. We need to humble ourselves and realize that we can do and know nothing without Him.