Bill Johnson Discernment

Well tonight after going out to do some evangelism, i began to speak with a college age man about repentance and faith in Christ. As i laid the Gospel message out he began to tell me he was a Christian. He also told me he was part of Harvest Rock Church. But he did also start talking about a man named Bill Johnson briefly. I do remember hearing this mans name before from another Christian while doing some witnessing and knew he was pastor of bethel church in Redding, Ca., and preached signs and wonders.
Also before making this thread i did do a forum search and say that someone has also asked about discernment with some of his teaching. As i read his websites Belief page, it is very accurate to what i know the bible teaches. It seems there are those who believe that this man preaches some heresy. If you look at their link page you will see names like Benny Hinn, (Brownsville Revival, which i know nothing about but just have heard some things), and Todd Bentley, who i believe Greg posted about recently with regard to false teaching.
Anyway, i just decided to create a new post, and would like any feedback or thought on this man Bill Johnson, his church, or if you know of some of the movements he might be caught up in.(i think Word of faith is what people seem to be linking him to).
Also it seems both this young man i met tonight and the group of men i met last time i heard this name Bill Johnson have a big problem with telling people they are going to hell. They really seem to believe God loves everyone, and hates no one. I see how this type of theology allows men like Benny Hinn and Bill Johnson to preach more of a prosperity false gospel.
Again, any feedback or thoughts are appreciated.

BrianPaul wrote:
Also before making this thread i did do a forum search and say that someone has also asked about discernment with some of his teaching.

[b]Bill Johnson[/b]
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=19543&forum=35

[b]Is the Prophetic Movement Revival in our day??![/b]
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=18630&forum=40

When I posted asking about Bill Johnson, I got two types of replies in pm's. One person said he went to a conference and left early he was so repulsed by what he saw, and the other said Bill was an awesome man of God. The second one also said that people criticize Bill for his belief that miracles are for today. My reply said I belived that too but was concerned not about healing, but about the feathers, gold dust and such. I never got a response.
I will also mention that my pastor had started to listen to some of his teachings. He was a little wary of it, but got talked into going to a conference of Bill's about a week after the Revival conference which he also attended. When he returned from that conference he threw all of the teachings that he had been given away.
Hope this helps!!

I have read Bill Johnson's books and listened to several of his teachings and they are awesome. He is one of my favorite modern day authors. I would highly reccomend his book "When Heaven Invades Earth"

"prosperity false gospel"

I won't speak for Bill Johnson, because i don't know exactly what he would say, but he believes that God wants us to prosper and be in good health, because it is absurd that God wants use to be poor and sick.

I would say, instead of finding information on forums and by word of mouth, go to Bethel's (where Bill pastors) website and look at their fruit.

maybe.. start here.

http://www.ibethel.org/features/testimonies/index.php?f=testimonies.php&page=24

or...

http://www.ibethel.tv/

If sermonindex is really promoting "genuine BIBLICAL revival", i would say, Bethel Church is the place to start.

I would rather not discuss doctrine or opinions until we see the fruit.

If sermonindex is really promoting "genuine BIBLICAL revival", i would say, Bethel Church is the place to start.

On the contrary, this would not be advisable. There is a tremendous amount of issues and items along with those they associate with. I do appreciate the emphasis to go to source material - Check the links, read the articles if you must, but this is not something SermonIndex would recommend nor endorse.

Hey Mike, Merry Christ and Happy New Year.

I whole heartedly agree. I have heard from people that have been to this particular ministry and it is full of signs and wonders and domination in it's promotional index in their being promoted through the ranks, to a higher plane of self reaching and proclamation of peace and prosperity through graduational promotion in their overwhelmingly structured classes within their own realm of teaching.

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them , An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign ; and there shall no sign be given to it , but the sign of the prophet Jonas :

Sign:

Strong's Greek Dictionary
4592. semeion
Search for G4592 in KJVSL
shmeion semeion say-mi'-on
neuter of a presumed derivative of the base of 4591; an indication, especially ceremonially or supernaturally:--miracle, sign, token, wonder.

See Greek 4591

This is good stuff for those seeking after worldly peace brokering of God in their going after peace and prosperity in making God their sugar daddy. The church is also closely using the college that is close to their church to futher their ministry. I won't go there because of my hatred of worldly ministry of Satan's signs and wonders and peace an prosperity doctrine.

Pray for them, there are some of Gods children there. Oh! How it hurts to see Christ used in this way.

Some will not agree with me, I don't like putting down other ministries, but the truth is, darkness is filling the Church, but God's light will prevail for those that are His, The Body of Christ, HIS CHURCH.

In Christ: Phillip

I am sorry brother Natan, but I am going to have to correct you on that sentiment.

[b]Revelation 2
1. [/b] "To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: The One who holds the seven stars in His right hand, the One who walks among the seven golden lampstands, says this:
[b]2. [/b] `I know your deeds and your toil and perseverance, and that you cannot tolerate evil men, and you put to the test those who call themselves apostles, and they are not, and you found them to be false;
[b]3. [/b] and you have perseverance and have endured for My name's sake, and have not grown weary.'"

Just as we are constrained by the love of Christ to expose the sins of a dying world so that they might turn and live by grace unto God. So too, when false prophets and false teachers arise among the flock we put them to the test and this is pleasing to God. How would you like to be one of the bereans, putting the apostle Paul to the test? And when false doctrines are discovered we raise the alarm to protect one another. And if a man rises up with many false teachings we put him out from among us and pray for the destruction of his flesh.

[b]1 Corinthians 5
1.[/b] It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife!
[b]2.[/b] And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you.
[b]3.[/b] For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed.
[b]4.[/b] In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
[b]5.[/b] deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
[b]6.[/b] Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?
[b]7.[/b] Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.
[b]8.[/b] Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
[b]9.[/b] I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people.
[b]10.[/b] Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.
[b]11.[/b] But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.
[b]12.[/b] For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?
[b]13.[/b] But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person."

I am not familiar with Bill Johnson's ministry personally however I recognize him by association with many other false prophets and false teachers. In fact, the first time I heard of this man was when I was complimented for reminding someone of him. Mind you, this person was sold into the false signs and wonders movement. That to me is a fruit of the ministry, an epistle written upon a heart of flesh, and it is all bad. That night still makes me cringe with the defilement of teachings and spiritual carnality. When the Presence of Almighty God is discerned by whether or not your arms tingle ... that to me is a red flag. And indeed, that was just one of many, another big red flag was when I quoted the words of Jesus and they had no clue what I was talking about: they had never heard it before.

Christinyou wrote:
Hey Mike, Merry Christ and Happy New Year.

I whole heartedly agree. I have heard from people that have been to this particular ministry and it is full of signs and wonders and domination in it's promotional index in their being promoted through the ranks, to a higher plane of self reaching and proclamation of peace and prosperity through graduational promotion in their overwhelmingly structured classes within their own realm of teaching.

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them , An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign ; and there shall no sign be given to it , but the sign of the prophet Jonas :

Sign:

Strong's Greek Dictionary
4592. semeion
Search for G4592 in KJVSL
shmeion semeion say-mi'-on
neuter of a presumed derivative of the base of 4591; an indication, especially ceremonially or supernaturally:--miracle, sign, token, wonder.

See Greek 4591

This is good stuff for those seeking after worldly peace brokering of God in their going after peace and prosperity in making God their sugar daddy. The church is also closely using the college that is close to their church to futher their ministry. I won't go there because of my hatred of worldly ministry of Satan's signs and wonders and peace an prosperity doctrine.

Pray for them, there are some of Gods children there. Oh! How it hurts to see Christ used in this way.

Some will not agree with me, I don't like putting down other ministries, but the truth is, darkness is filling the Church, but God's light will prevail for those that are His, The Body of Christ, HIS CHURCH.

In Christ: Phillip

Satan's signs and wonders? Sorry, I just can't let that one slide. It's perfectly fine if you don't agree with every doctrine that someone has, but to put them in league with the devil because of it is not only an awful thing to do, you risk calling works of the Holy Spirit the works of the devil. I promise you, satan isn't healing sickness, disease, and chronic pain in the name of Jesus.

It is wrong for those ministries that pursue signs and wonders and not the development of godly character. It is just as wrong for other ministries to say that signs and wonders have passed away. That God no longer heals today, and the gifts of the Spirit are obsolete.

We seem to get on this discussion everytime a ministry is mentioned that believes that signs and wonders are for today.

I am tired of seeing Christians dying young of sickness and disease because there is no power in the church for them to be healed. We can say that it is God's will that cancer would ravish their bodies, but God is not the author of cancer. The same ones that say that God does not heal today will go to the doctors and take chemotherapy which not only destroys the cancer cells but the immune system itself.

We need the power of God in our lives not only to make us holy but to heal our bodies as well.

My prayer is that the gifts of the Spirit would be restored to the Church. If we put more emphasis on the gifts than on the fruit of the Spirit then there will be an imbalance and there will be problems.

We need more men like Smith Wigglesworth and John G. Lake that walked in purity, holiness, and had the power of God demonstrated in healing, deliverance, signs and wonders that confirmed the Word that they preached.

Mike

Amen, brother Cccrider.

Satan's signs and wonders? Sorry, I just can't let that one slide. It's perfectly fine if you don't agree with every doctrine that someone has, but to put them in league with the devil because of it is not only an awful thing to do, you risk calling works of the Holy Spirit the works of the devil. I promise you, satan isn't healing sickness, disease, and chronic pain in the name of Jesus.

"In his book, [i]Counterfeit Revival[/i], Hank Hanegraaff makes the case that the revival has done more damage than good. His view is that Toronto was a matter of people being worked into altered states of consciousness where they obscure reality and enshrine absurdity." (wikipedia.org)

If you watch these videos, I ask you to give special attention to the testimonies of the "healed". And you shall witness at the very end of Part 2 (at the 56:00 minute) there is a review of some of the "healed" and how they died of the very sicknesses and diseases that these "ministers" healed them from. All of these people who later died testified of being healed, without pain, and even feats they had not previously been able to perform, etc.

I am tired of seeing Christians dying young of sickness and disease because there is no power in the church for them to be healed. We can say that it is God's will that cancer would ravish their bodies, but God is not the author of cancer. The same ones that say that God does not heal today will go to the doctors and take chemotherapy which not only destroys the cancer cells but the immune system itself.

We need the power of God in our lives not only to make us holy but to heal our bodies as well.

My prayer is that the gifts of the Spirit would be restored to the Church. If we put more emphasis on the gifts than on the fruit of the Spirit then there will be an imbalance and there will be problems.

We need more men like Smith Wigglesworth and John G. Lake that walked in purity, holiness, and had the power of God demonstrated in healing, deliverance, signs and wonders that confirmed the Word that they preached.

Healing is at the discretion of a Sovereign God, it can't be manipulated or methodically induced. Some sicknesses and hard circumstances drive people to God. There are many Godly people (including Wigglesworth) who suffered physically and had little to no money. That's not an excuse for discounting the power of God, but a reality that even the Apostle Paul realized personally.

There is a video online called "Signs and Wonders Movement Exposed" (Part 1 here and Part 2 here) which has documentation of several of the famous "revivals" and "healing" ministries of our time.

If you watch these videos, I ask you to give special attention to the testimonies of the "healed". And you shall witness at the very end of Part 2 (at the 56:00 minute) there is a review of some of the "healed" and how they died of the very sicknesses and diseases that these "ministers" healed them from. All of these people who later died testified of being healed, without pain, and even feats they had not previously been able to perform, etc.

On the contrary, this would not be advisable. There is a tremendous amount of issues and items along with those they associate with. I do appreciate the emphasis to go to source material - Check the links, read the articles if you must, but this is not something SermonIndex would recommend nor endorse.

Interesting. Despite what I had just requested, to look at the fruit, you tell me that the ministry at Bethel is controversial.

I seriously don't care if there are tremendous issues with the people they associate. There are tremendous issues with EVERYONE Jesus associated with. Just because I am hanging out with prostitutes, or my best friend is a hypocritical white-washed pharisee, does that make my ministry to the sick and poor completely false?

By saying, "look at the fruit" I mean that you need to look at the fruit. As a result of every healing and deliverance, I believe the words that come out of the congregations' mouth is "praise the Lord", and as a result of every salvation, I am hesitant to believe that people think, "yes, I'm the bomb, I got saved, Satan rocks".

Obviously this is a stretch, but the idea is there. People are being healed, people are saved.

boG said "Bill Johnson's ministry personally however I recognize him by association with many other false prophets and false teachers"

Again, boG, regarding your personal ministry, I recognize you by association with many unbelievers, childhood friends that have gone awry, and people at your own church who don't believe what you believe. Do you realize how wrong that is?

Natan4Jesus - "in the end it was GOD who unmasked him"

If Bill does not have the character to steward what God has given him, then let the ministry fall in the next few years.
---

When Peter was full of doubt, weak, and unsure. Jesus called him a rock. When Jesus knew that Judas was a thief, and conniving, he still let Judas steward their money. Never did Jesus call Peter faithless, witless, or weak, but he called him a rock, on which the church shall be built.

Here, we have what you call "false teachers" and "false prophets".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opnCOj58PMw

For God's sake, His sake, this man who you call a false teacher confesses his hunger for Christ and the manifest presence of the Lord, this man, is our brother, yet you bash, slander, accuse, and you speak death concerning him. We should be offering our help, speaking the life, the promises of God, offering our prayers, declaring the healing of his heart and the restoration of his ministry. We should be like JESUS like we all claim to follow. We should be calling out the gold in everyone, just as Jesus prophesied who Peter was to be, we should be doing the same with our brothers and sisters in Christ.

Do you know why he failed? Yes, he's human, but on part, the reason he failed was because of us. Because many were busy flailing accusations, they were not praying for our brothers, they were not praying for those who were in the frontlines of battle.

The reason why crooks counterfeit $20 bills up, is because it is not worth the time to counterfeit $1 bills. The reason why you see 'false prophets' is because the devil knows how valuable the real thing is. It's not worth it for him to bring division concerning petty things like the shortest verse in the bible. Get the point?

Lastly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV_Whu0kfTk

to crsschk, I have scoured all over the ibethel site, bought many books, bought sermons, bought their worship CDs, heck, didn't even use Amazon because i wanted to support their ministry. I've read almost every article they've written, and because of that, God has worked in my heart in amazing ways. The fruit of the spirit IS love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. A large part of my spiritual growth was aided by their ministry, I love to love my unbelieving friends without an agenda to make them believe what they don't want to believe, God has given me joy unspeakable as a child more than ever before, The supernatural peace of God is constantly on me...

I give no man credit, but I must thank those men who have been obedient to steward what God has given them.
---
King Solomon ended his life poorly. Does that mean we have to scrap out songs of solomon and all of proverbs? NO. He ministered out of God's anointing, and just because he walked away from it doesn't mean that God was wrong, or that King solomon was a 'false teacher', nor gives us the right to call him one, but in fact, declare the the blood of Christ covers ALL sin.

I do not discount the infallibility of the word of God.. BUT.. Why do so many Christians value the Bible -- what the New Testament church DID NOT have -- so much, but rarely talk about or commune with the Holy Spirit -- whom the New Testament church always ministered through -- who is, need I remind you, our Comforter and Helper, and the Spirit of God?

I found a sermon on THIS site from Aimee Semple McPherson. Radical. Even Wigglesworth has teaching on this site, RADICAL.

It is wrong for those ministries that pursue signs and wonders and not the development of godly character. It is just as wrong for other ministries to say that signs and wonders have passed away. That God no longer heals today, and the gifts of the Spirit are obsolete.

everytime I see the word: "discernment", I automatically see the word, "pharisee" right behind it.

I'm all for healing and the glorifying of God but this is a byproduct of relationship with Christ, not the cause. I fail to see the relationship in chasing healings, unbiblical drunken laughter, or a hundred fold return for a financial 'seed'.

Paul told us to COVET prophecy, he greatly desired for the church to pursue spiritual gifts, and yes, many times, this leads to people pursuing the gifts rather than the Giver. But this doesn't mean we should call something 'false' just because someone has a gift that God has given them, but we don't have because we didn't ask, or because we didn't know was available.

http://www.ibethel.tv/watch/173:1:0

When's the last time God broke your box?
Theology is what God believes in.
The reason it is called a sign, is because it points to something greater.
Some signs cause us to wonder, but that sign still points to something.

Interesting responses.

To Natan, I only have one manner of speaking, it is my own. In regards to why I politely told you that you are wrong is because it was a first rebuke. If you had been stubbornly wrong over and over and ignoring the truth, I would gradually come to address you more and more as a servant of lawlessness -- and then you would certainly find my manner blunt.

As to whizzpopping, you are mistaken sir.

boG said "Bill Johnson's ministry personally however I recognize him by association with many other false prophets and false teachers"

Again, boG, regarding your personal ministry, I recognize you by association with many unbelievers, childhood friends that have gone awry, and people at your own church who don't believe what you believe. Do you realize how wrong that is?

Just like the video you posted of Bentley and the crowd praying. What is this supposed to be? Proof of legitimacy? My friend, I have stood before people "slain in the spirit", I have watched with my own eyes such "manifestations of the spirit", etc. and the problem with all of it, as far as it concerns me, I can only look upon these things with my eyes. I cannot look with my eyes and discern what is born of heaven. Do I see emotions, or carnality, or hypnotism, or irrationality, or mind-altering influences, or is there something of innocent faith? Perhaps, there are some in that crowd who are being baptized with the Spirit of Truth, and this I can say because I know God is at work even in the midst of the lion's den and the fiery furnace. The just shall walk by faith and not by sight. You are asking to look upon these manifestations with the sight and judge whether they be of God or not. All we may do is look to the character of the man to see where the fruits of the Spirit are manifest ([b]Galatians 5[/b]). I look to Bentley and what do I see? A man ordained by the apostle Paul (speaking with and counselling with the dead: necromancy); a man who is frequently visited and instructed by a female angel named "Emma", where there is any number of things to say; the healings evinced are given credit to "healing angels" -- but they are "sent by God"; angels of finance; angels of . . . fill in the blank. [b]Colossians 2:18[/b], "Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind." Have you ever heard or watched Bentley speak of his ordination and his peculiar demonic manifestations (as a christian) mimicking a serpent and leaping upon and overpowering several men; wherefore he confesses to have been supposedly delivered from these spirits (ie. spirit of fear) in preparation for his new ministry? This is no man whom I will trust with my life.

Do you know why he failed? Yes, he's human, but on part, the reason he failed was because of us. Because many were busy flailing accusations, they were not praying for our brothers, they were not praying for those who were in the frontlines of battle.

So, why didn't the Lord deliver Bentley from every evil work? Because we lacked prayer? I don't recall that being a pre-requisite. Is not Christ himself interceding with fervent and effective prayers on behalf of the saints?

In regards to signs and wonders, when push comes to shove, here is where I make my stand. I watched the video of the woman giving testimony to her son being progressively healed of autism. This woman has never seen the throne of God nor him who sits upon the throne.
[b]Jeremiah 23:25-27[/b]
"I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed. How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart; Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal."

Why do I say this? Because she speaks so commonly. And she speaks of the holy things of God no differently then all the others I have spoken to who are sold into this hyper-"prophetic" movement. When Paul bears witness of a man (who many believe to be Paul himself) who testified "How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter" and compare to this woman, who says, "and I've been in the throne room before; and I guess I've been a few times . . ." And shall we even compare this woman's plainness to when Isaiah and Peter beheld the glory of God?
How peculiar, God, God himself, spoke to this woman "2.5 delta" as the "healing frequency" for her child's autism. The same frequency used to put people into altered-states of consciousness. I guess that is what happens when you are opening yourself up to all manner of spiritual influences and certain spirits teach you to base your prayers in neuroscience (as the women said) to be strategically prayed months on end. Not quite the same as "be healed, in the name of Jesus" is it?

[b]Jeremiah 23:28-32[/b]
"The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD. Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces? Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that steal my words every one from his neighbour. Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He saith. Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD."

And one more closing remark,
[b]Matthew 7:22,23[/b]
"Many will say to Me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.'"

Let us be aware, these who said, "Lord, Lord" were spiritually manifest with gifts (even casting out demons, which may bring physical healing, and miracles) and they were utterly surprised that their names were not written in the Lamb's Book of Life.

I have to confess that I have many people in my circle of influence that are church goers as well as some who are not. I associate with them and love them, I dine with them and in secret I deeply pain over them and thier lost condition. One might say that if I was to attain to a national platform that I was a false prophet based on much of what I see written above here. Just because I associate with these individuals. O'by the way, I have sledom lost focus on my objective to win them to Christ by my life, and yes I have failed at times and yes they have seen my humanis(?), and they know I can never condone thier actions and stances.
In the same way, you'll never know what exactly a good man like Bill Johnson has in his heart as he bears up these associations before a holy God in prayer.I think it's easy to cast stones at doctrine, and while I do not embrace the WOF movement, I sure am glad that the Lord cares for mine and my families well being in the area of money, health...etc...

I want to comment on something too>>>

They really seem to believe God loves everyone, and hates no one.