Concerning Daniel_INC

Greetings to each of you here at S.I.I've been in the Christian Community as a Pastor within the PAOC for several years, and my only desire is to see that all of you would come to a common understanding of the Grace which Christ our Lord has so mercifully bestowed upon all of us ho have been set apart for His Glory.I'm a personal friend of Daniel_INC's and I wanted to comment on the letters I have read on this site, having spent aproximately 2 days reviewing and reviewing all that has been written BY and ABOUT this young man.My goal is to state some obvious facts for the record, and i pray that we can all see these words as they are to appear, understanding that there have been several misdemeanours concerning posts lately.I have been following each thread quite methodically; and be it that you know me not, yet I can say that I know most of YOU in a sense; forbear with me.I have read and read and read and have printed each and every post that you have all made, Daniel__INCs included.Taking these words that you have all written, it is an apparency that many of you, and I speak this concerning Dan as well, have something within your hearts that seems to seek "first place" as it were; and I have thus spoken these very words to Dan, dear Brethren.I encourage all of you to look over your words once more and see how that each one has had an opinion and a statement to the contrary of the other; Christ opened not His mouth, and yet you all have opened wide your thoughts and to your shame you have exposed your own "status seeking" hearts; I speak here as a fool.Jesus Christ is Lord.Do we all agree?Amen.God is a reconciler.Do we all agree? Amen. ;-) How can it be that there are so many of us whose lives are consumed in debates and endless strivings?Is it Daniel or it the readers of his posts? OR, and I speak here as one who is a fool for Christ, is it all of you and he together who have brought disgrace to the Unity of the Spirit that Calvary has graced all of us with?Whether or not one is Baptist or Calvinist or Pentecostal Arminian, the only concern is whether your heart is right with the Atoning Blood of the Lamb.Doctrine is fundamentally needed; yet, if that doctrine does not lead one to a love and reverance for the things of the Lord, what good has your doctrine done you?Daniel is a young man filled with the Fire of God; and yet also with very little patience at times!I am not here to defend this young man; he was wrong in much of his words, and yet who here claims they were right? To him who claims such, I beg of you to repent of pride in yourself.Jesus Christ is about to return and you all sit here and debate.I DO agree that we ARE accountable to one another, as oppossed to Dan's view; however, when you must demand and implication of submission, your authority is assumed and not ordained.What must one do to bring peace?Jesus Christ is returning and millions are going to hell as I write this very posting and yet it seems that you are all blind, and Daniel also, to this truth!Wake up Church!In His Love, BibleThumper.

We are human and we are sinners. Posting on here has been a learning process, for me at least. I'm sure the same is with others as well. Did you read what happened under the "Blasphemous Saved! Film" in the Lounge folder? I think that's a good example of some of us realizing that we need to think before we speak and check our hearts through prayer concerning our posts. I think some of us have been humbled and have checked the passion behind our bold stands in our posts.I would have to agree that hopefully, instead of debating on here all day, that we're living out the truth God has taught us. Hopefully we're not tied down to our Christian circles, but instead praying about and seeking opportunities to love our lost world and to draw back those who may have strayed. Concerning division that may be happening on here, if someone offends you, opposes your opinion, or just sets you on fire inside, PRAY! I've found when I've realized that the person I may have not agreed with is a fellow Christian, and that it's not flesh and blood that we fight against, that I've had a peace from God. Don't carry a grudge with you when you leave here. If you feel weighed down rather than encouraged, just give it up and let it go to God in prayer. It's not worth being distracted by.

I must say I couldn't agree more.Now that I have taken the time and effort to seek to share what the Lord has laid uponm this old heart of mine, I will say goodbye to all of you who are friends of this beautiful minbisty; it is indeed apparent that this IS a God Appointed Ministry to those in need of truth.May the Lord be with you all and also with me.

Yolanda,you tend to have such a nice way with words. :)Yes, you are right. I have had to learn alot- and am still learning about losing my right to my "rights". I have been trying to learn "forbearance" for about a year now and this is definitely the place to learn it.I got this little devotional on forbearance and have saved it all this time because, although i know that i will have to be confrontational-'ala John the Baptist' at times in my walk- I must first learn forbearance.---------------------------The first aspect of the expression of a life that lives Christ is forbearance. Philippians 4:5 says, "Let your forbearance be known to all men."A life that lives Christ is calm, tranquil, peaceful, and quiet. A life of turmoil, on the contrary, is a life that lives Satan. Forbearance is the most important element of a tranquil life. Forbearance is reasonableness and consideration in dealing with others. To have forbearance is to deal with others without strictness of legal right. If we would live a calm life, we must have forbearance.Forbearance includes patience and moderation, but goes beyond them. If you have forbearance, you will not argue with others, fight with them, or debate with them. You may have a great deal to say, but you will have patience and moderation in dealing with others and will not say anything in response to provocation or irritation. Forbearance is versus rivalry and vainglory, two negative things mentioned by Paul. Forbearance is also opposed to murmurings and reasonings. Whenever we have rivalry, vainglory, murmurings, and reasonings, there is no calm, no tranquility, no forbearance.---------------------------In His perfect love, Chanin

Concerning division that may be happening on here, if someone offends you, opposes your opinion, or just sets you on fire inside, PRAY! I've found when I've realized that the person I may have not agreed with is a fellow Christian, and that it's not flesh and blood that we fight against, that I've had a peace from God. Don't carry a grudge with you when you leave here. If you feel weighed down rather than encouraged, just give it up and let it go to God in prayer. It's not worth being distracted by. I agree and certainly want to react in a Christlike fashion. I have likewise had much zeal that can get a little out of control. I remember when I started the Jewish Roots post; it nearly created a shockwave with some of my responses to the replys. I see now that it was simply a misunderstanding combined with all of our strong convictions. I had to go back and repent on some of the stuff! I am trying HARD to be swift to hear slow to speak and slow to wrath. I'm not at all there, but I'm getting there.I want to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of perfectness. I appreciate the response by Bible Thumper, as it has added a context to things we did not have before. ;-)For me, I have an appreciation for preachers and young preachers. They are in very short supply in our area. Last I heard I think our average age of pastor in our area is 50's or 60's. I love these old preachers- but I'm concerned that we have so FEW young preachers coming up. Personally I must repent for not giving everyone at this forum a greater measure of the benefit of the doubt when things got sticky. God is working this out in me. God Bless,-Robert

BiblethumperI must agree with you Sir that the nature of the manner in which, Daniel has been “corrected” has at times not been very Christian. I ask myself that when I posted some of my responses has it been for the glory of God, or for my own glory. To my shame, it must be noted that I for one, did not pray even once before I posted anything concerning Pastor Daniel. Still it must be noted that some of the “corrections” were in private messages where there was no room to seek glory.It is not hard to see that we got off on the wrong foot to begin with. As another person once said, all that is needed for a disagreement is two people and enough time. Contention among Christians is not a novelty brought about by internet forums or debates. Whether we debate or not there is a division among Christians, on a variety of issues. You only have to look at the number of denominations to see this; every one of those denominations believe they are right. The members of this forum come from all different walks of life; different denominations; different ages; different cultures; different stages of growth and perhaps the simultaneous source of our greatest strength and shortcoming; different weaknesses. If for example, we were all of the same denomination we would invariably have the same weaknesses, no denomination is perfect. The greater question for us here is what is the purpose of our debates?We have been exhorted more than once to be like-minded as Christians, when we cleave to one denomination or doctrine there is no room for like-mindedness. As Paul said, I am become all things for all people. It is not the first time that doctrine has been a hindrance for like-mindedness. It can be seen that there were divisions (doctrines) concerning what should be eaten. I think a parallel can be drawn amongst us as Christians nowadays. They are not always quite as blatant, but there are divisions all the same. When I come here to SI, I learn how to relate to different Christians from different backgrounds, whether it is by a conscious effort or subconsciously. When we are forced to be civil to any opposing views, then we start to look for points of agreement and in some small way, the gap between us is bridged. I do not ever recall being provoked to anger by any of the debates on this site. I think it is when we come here with the intent that we may align the views of everyone else with our own that problems arise. It is a fact that we agree more often than we disagree. More often than not, we learn from each other. You addressed the issue of “strife”. James 4:1 “From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?” We are all made of flesh and blood, we are not perfect, and we sometimes stumble. We may stumble and say (write) the wrong thing for the wrong motives. It is still sin if we say the right thing for the wrong motives, but unfortunately, it occurs more often that we say the wrong thing for the right motives. James 3:2 “For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.” Seeing as we are all not perfect we must forbear one another in many things.Romans 14 “14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.” Similarly, if I cause my brother to offend with my speech, I do not walk charitably. This something I have learned from this site. Indeed I have learned more things than I have lost (I have lost nothing) from this site. It is such a blessing to be able to use this resource freely. Every good gift is from above, and to me this is a good gift. Just my thoughts.James

I must admit that when Daniel INC came into this forum with guns blazing about the Jimmy Swaggert post I instantly took a disliking to him. "Judgmental" and "no humilty" were some of my initial thoughts. I should know by now that whenever this happens God is trying to teach me something through that person. I find that when I dislike a person often some of the same characteristics that I am displeased with are currently exhibited in my own life to some degree or another, or they were in the past. Either the ol "beam" really blinds me or I struggle to forgive another for that which I have been forgiven.I allowed my intial reaction to put a negative color on everything he posted from then on. I even rashly responded to his 'spiritual drunkenness' post without reading it completly, to my shame.He came in here and stirred up some dust in our neat little world, I'm saddened by my own reaction. Perhaps we all can learn something from this, all things come together for good for those who love God, His mercy endureth forever!In Christ,Ron

Brothers I have to say that God works all things out for good. Although this has been a horrible situation, it was an admonishment to me to remember how incredibly important it is that we live out Phillippians 2:1-5. Finding out that this person was a man that was immature but had a real heart for God was thought provoking. Each and every person is so loved by God and thought to be so special that it could seem that they are the most precious thing in the universe to God. We love God dearly and want Him to have everything He deserves, because He is God yes, but also because we love Him. One of the greatest ways that we can give something to God is by being a blessing to one of His ever precious ones. The bible also says "better is an open rebuke than hidden love" and "wounds from a friend can be trusted, but an enemy multiplies kisses. Figuring out how to balance the this with Phillippians 2 is rather difficult. God bless and keep you.All to and for HimJohn C. Kelly

Concerning division that may be happening on here, if someone offends you, opposes your opinion, or just sets you on fire inside, PRAY! I've found when I've realized that the person I may have not agreed with is a fellow Christian, and that it's not flesh and blood that we fight against, that I've had a peace from God. Don't carry a grudge with you when you leave here. If you feel weighed down rather than encouraged, just give it up and let it go to God in prayer. It's not worth being distracted by. Yodi, praying is the first response, excellent reminder. I have not really been keeping up with the particular offending post, but the responses on this thread are so humble and contrite, it seems many have learned something, to the glory of God. I want to add to Yodi's response what Jesus says to do in particular situations where there is offense and sin. After I learned this scripture, I immediately put it into practice. The bible requires more than just prayer, God wants us to talk about things, in love always, and to resolve quickly. Many times, talking will be hard (and may lead to the goats being exposed from the sheep), but we should still obey Jesus, even if it's hard. Jesus says in Matt 18:15, "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the 2 of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or 2 others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of 2 or 3 witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector." How do we treat pagans and tax collectors? I treat them as unsaved blind sinners, but I don't hate them. I know Satan blinds them, even if they are false converts (no fruit, no obedience or love for God). Mr. Biblethumper's loving correction is an example of this.We can expose these things, discuss things honestly, not just pray. Prayer is powerful, but we cannot substitute prayer for obedience to what He's already told us. So much sin is glossed over and ignored in the guise of forgiveness. We are to forgive, but the Bible has certain teachings about how to deal with people, and there are differences in how we treat unrepentant sinners, saved sinners (that's me), enemies and etc. The greatest is love. I just want to bring up Matt 18:15, once I learned this scripture (pastor at church taught on it), God has blessed this wisdom and even changed my life in many ways. There are so many wise and loving Christians in this community, I pray God will continue to watch over all of us, and keep His peace in this place. Thank you, Lord, for Your discipline, Your wisdom, and Your fellowship, in Jesus' name I pray, amen.

BibleThumper,Thank you for your kind words. I have taken them to heart. We have a special community here at S.I. One that I believe the Lord has led together. Each of us have all had our moments when we'd rather forget what we posted, but we've always in the end treated each other with respect and dignity as a fellow servant of Christ.In doing so this has become very much a community of believers. Though we've never met or seen each other's faces, we would know each other in a second if we met on the street. And as with any community, there are going to be rules, whether spoken or unspoken. Greg for a very long time was the only moderator with the exception of maybe one or two others. But as S.I has grown the task of moderating the site has grown to the point that Greg began asking some of the members to help.We rarely excersize our moderator status, I think this is the first time that I have even done it, with the exception of PM'ing a dear brother in defense of none other than Daniel. I admit that I posted in frustration, but not because I felt usurped. I and the other mod's were upholding the rules of the community that we ourselves are asnwerable to. If my actions and attitude were wrong, my motive was only for the good of the community. I am sorry if I offended any brothers and sisters, this has been a miserable episode.In Christ,Jeremy Hulsey

Thank the Lord for people who are not afraid to speak there mind. going on to a board is like walking into a dark ally you don't know whose out there. But your glad they call you Brother & sister. you just keep the love of the lord in your hearts this is just a day in the life of growing. keep walking keep loving. Bro. RavenP. S. I know I'd walk here anytime.

My, this is truly a sad situation. I have read through all the replies here as well as the related posting.Many kind words, thoughtful and heartfelt.But with all due respect, think there is a need for a clarification of the issue at hand. The main problem has been one of conduct and of attitude. What had been stressed and was continually being ignored was that some consideration be given to how anyone should conduct themselves in a environment that they are unfamiliar with.It had originally been pointed out that it would be a good idea to get a 'feel' for the site and it's members and it was stated that he had done so from afar. Fair enough. There was even an apology offered in private if there had been a misunderstanding. But it soon became obvious that this was not the case.This is the website of one Greg Gordon and he has graciously developed it into a fine ministry, make that outstanding, by providing us all with such a vast amount of resources and a forum with many members throughout the world that is without a doubt a 'church' in the truest sense of the word, even if it is a bit unorthodox.And unlike many forums where there is so much antagonism and unhealthy arguing, fighting and whatnot, for the great number who come here it is a group of big hearted, humble, willing to learn, willing to share and even transparent Christian believers who long to do Gods will.If I error anywhere (and I do error often) in this instance it is in a guarded jealousy over the unity of these dear people. Not in doctrine or denomination but in the unity that is shared here amongst one another.The idea that this is some kind of power trip, that there are wolves running amok...etc. etc. is ridiculous.When someone comes barging into your church, your home, your place of business is loud and obnoxious, will not listen to your requests to tone it down but Carries on with his own idea's of what he what's to do...that is unacceptable.Believe we were more than gracious in giving him the benefit of the doubt while there were quite a few that had some serious concerns about what had been transpiring here over the last few days, the whole tone (yes there is a 'tone' around here) had changed.Yes, he got off on the wrong foot and I will admit to the fact that this may have colored my thinking as well and yet early on I was one to state that we should give him a chance and maybe he would settle down..The point was made again and again that there is a history here of topics and discussions as well as members and their experience and knowledge, but this was disregarded in wanting to push across his own particular way of doing things. That's fine if you insist start your own website.But to come here with an attitude, an agenda and total disregard to all that frequent here is very disturbing and disrupting.All this seems to be overlooked in favor of trying to make this a different issue, that of debate over doctrine or which camp you fit into and assorted other things.I did state that I thought it was a problem of pride and believe it still is because none of these things have been addressed. But it also raised the very issue with myself and I did not level that charge without leveling it at myself. I did not take this lightly in any shape or form, this was not an off the cuff comment and it caused a lot of prayer and agonizing to even have to address this whole thing, it has been going on for almost a week now.To moderate in one definition is to "restrain from excess" and that was the attempt. I am sure it was imperfectly and it saddens me to see it have to become such a problem in this instance.Finally, something that I will never forget here was early on I had gone off on a tangent about the whole benefit of higher education as it relates to Christian scholarship and the like. Problem being that I didn't have a clue what I was talking about and I was soundly rebuked by Greg and not only did I have it coming, it was the best thing that ever happened to me (it may have been directed at a couple of us, but I took it to heart). I thank God he had the gumption to put me in my place and I was embarrassed and humbled, truly kinds words that I needed to hear.Lastly, I ask for forgiveness for all the disruption and most importantly if I have overstepped my bounds, caused any undo grief, have failed to see my own pride, anything that is out of place, please, do bring it to my attention.Always want to be transparent before you all.

Excellent post Mike. I think you have really touched the heart of the whole issue.

Hear! Hear!L. W."With all due respect, think there is a need for a clarification of the issue at hand. The main problem has been one of conduct and of attitude. What had been stressed and was continually being ignored was that some consideration be given to how anyone should conduct themselves in a environment that they are unfamiliar with.It had originally been pointed out that it would be a good idea to get a 'feel' for the site and it's members and it was stated that he had done so from afar. Fair enough. There was even an apology offered in private if there had been a misunderstanding. But it soon became obvious that this was not the case.This is the website of one Greg Gordon and he has graciously developed it into a fine ministry, make that outstanding, by providing us all with such a vast amount of resources and a forum with many members throughout the world that is without a doubt a 'church' in the truest sense of the word, even if it is a bit unorthodox.And unlike many forums where there is so much antagonism and unhealthy arguing, fighting and whatnot, for the great number who come here it is a group of big hearted, humble, willing to learn, willing to share and even transparent Christian believers who long to do Gods will.The idea that this is some kind of power trip, that there are wolves running amok...etc. etc. is ridiculous.When someone comes barging into your church, your home, your place of business is loud and obnoxious, will not listen to your requests to tone it down but Carries on with his own idea's of what he what's to do...that is unacceptable."

I have rarely had to put on my 'moderation' hat to make sure things are in order. I can remember at least one of those times!!!! :-)

with apologies to Rudyard Kipling..."if you can keep your head when all about youare losing theirs and blaming it on you......it may just mean you don't understand the situation! ;-)

No matter what transpired here in the last few days, I would like to thank Mike and Greg for watching out for us and keeping an eye on the "flock". This is one situation that I wouldn't have touched with a ten ft pole. There was such a spirit of confusion (not to mention other things)running amuck (is that a word?) To many this may have seemed like a wrench thrown in by the enemy to sow discord- and maybe this is so in a way- but i see it as being allowed by the Lord (aren't all things in His control?) to see how everyone would react. It was a great test. Everything happens for a reason. We can glean and learn so much from each situation. I think everyone is wiser and more mature than just a few days ago. This is good! :-) I am happy to be a part of SI and may any trials that come only bring SI members closer in Christ.Thanks again!In His perfect love, Chanin

Amen, I agree Chanin. Yes thank God for Greg and Mike and all of the other Godly men and women here.I saw something that Ron said that caught my eye as well "I find that when I dislike a person often some of the same characteristics that I am displeased with are currently exhibited in my own life to some degree or another, or they were in the past. Either the ol "beam" really blinds me or I struggle to forgive another for that which I have been forgiven."All I can is Amen Brother Ron. Yes, this is something I've struggled mightily with and have been convicted of lately. It struck a cord in my own heart.

Everything happens for a reason. We can glean and learn so much from each situation. I think everyone is wiser and more mature than just a few days ago. This is good!I agree Chanin. There is an element here that has come out that those who are in management positions (moderators) of being 'in charge' struggle with and its trying to bring correction in a Christlike fashion. This is VERY difficult. I deal with this everyday as a manager. Most of my workers are Christians. I 'feel' Bro. Mike greatly as I read his words and I believe the hearts of all here want to do right. They did not want to have to say something. I don't believe they wanted to confront. It is a horrible position to be placed in to have to confront somebody. It's just plain horrible! :-( When we bring correction we have to use caution not to make the punishment too great for the situation- as to allow a brother or sister to be overcome by much sorrow. Sometimes when attempts at correction are unsuccessful you have to take action that everyone is uncomfortable with. I agree that God was looking at how we would react- not that He needed to know- but we needed to see our own reactions. If everyones heart is right God will deal with the situation. Like Paul and Barnabus there are times when people have to part company because of the sharp disagreements until God can work it out. What happened? John Mark was a young man that faultered young- but the Gospel of Mark by tradition was written by his own hand later on. Paul later said to send him because he was profitable for the ministry. God worked it out. God received all the glory also! It is quite a story of God's working and it is marvelous in our eyes. My prayer is that we will see God work this out as well! He is able. He is gracious. God Bless!