Counter-Evangelism

Prayer, prayer, and more prayer is what we need!

[url=http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/dvera/CoEvan/index.html]Counter-Evangelism Resource Page[/url]

I am so grateful that salvation is of the Lord. We need only be obedient and proclaim the gospel in all of its fullness and He will resurrect dead hearts to behold the beauty of our precious Saviour.
It's a good thing that other peoples salvation does not depend on my cleverness or the ability to refute every argument that comes along! :-)

Hi everyone,

Dear friends, maybe, for the sake of those who could be weak or easily troubled, we should not present sites like this here if they are meant to errode or undermine the faith of believers. It is not as though these things cannot be answered, but that we be carefull to gaurd, and nourish, and protect the faith of other believers.

[i]How do we respond[/i]

From the questions or assults(as they may have been intended) that were presented from the site, it doesn't seem to me that they are being asked out of carefull or sincere study.

For instance, with regard to [i]princes[/i], I think rulers in general are in view here(see Psalm 2 and Acts 4:24-28). The ASV, ESV, and RV, all have rulers, instead of princes.

So what is the purpose of this then, to take advantage of a more archaic(to modern usage) rendering to create a supposed corruption or error in Paul's writtings?

As to Paul's qoutation of the Lord Jesus, the Gospel records are not presented as an exhaustive list of everything the Lord Jesus said and did. John in his record says this of his own account more directly(John 21:25).

So we could turn the question around. Who is more credible as the the recollection of the words of Christ or of sayings of His which might have been told to them: Luke and the Apostle Paul? Or someone in the 21st century, with perhaps an axe to grind.

Take care for now,

Chris

Dear friends, maybe, for the sake of those who could be weak or easily troubled, we should not present sites like this here if they are meant to errode or undermine the faith of believers. It is not as though these things cannot be answered, but that we be carefull to gaurd, and nourish, and protect the faith of other believers.

Hello brother.

I would like to add...

This was not posted to be a stumbling block…but a wake up call to the soldiers of Christ. These types of sites are blatant attacks from satan and we should be aware of what is happening around us and how the devil is coming against the church in these last days

This website is run by a theistic Satanist, she is one who believes in and worships satan as a deity. This is part of the freedom of religion we have in America.

We must be aware of our enemy’s activities. There are many on this forum that witness and preach on the streets and could potentially encounter this information.

If you find it troublesome please do not engage it. Ask for help from more mature brothers and sisters…but what ever you do…PRAY!

Once again this was posted to sound an alarm and rally the troops…not cause any trouble or worry. The saints should be made aware of this type of activity.

As spiritual warriors…this is the type of thing we should be aware of and concerned about.

This is our fight. Pray.

Hi everyone,

tjservant,

"These types of sites..."

But how was anyone to have known all of that? None of those things were mentioned in your post along with the link, except a link by itself.

How is anyone to know what you are presenting here?

[i]For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? [/i]

Dear friends, I only want to urge us to take care how and what we put before each other, and to consider those who may be weak or stumble at things like this, especially coming upon it unawares.

Regards,

Chris

I ask your forgiveness…and will try to do better. I felt that clicking the link I posted would suffice and be self explanatory…for by doing so…anyone would know what the site is about (Counter-Evangelism) and could make their own decision about going deeper.

I do not believe there is anything on the page I linked to that should cause such alarm.

After reading much of the blind drivel provided in the links, I do thank God that He has hidden Himself from the clever and the wise and revealed Himself to broken babes.

"No man can come to me unless the Father who sent me [i]draws[/i] him..." (John 6:44)

Those who are drawn to Christ need to thank God for His intervention, for we who were also once blind are now able to see, and it is nothing of ourselves but soley by grace according to the unsearchable purposes of God set in order before the foundation of the world.

hi

There is a simple answer to that sweety read the bible! and your faith will grow stronger ask god to make you understand ! There is no such thing as false information in the bible because it is the word of god himself ! :-)

[i]In 1 Cor. 2:8 Paul said: "Which none of the princes of this world know; for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory." What princes crucified Jesus? He was killed by a mob and some soldiers.[/i]

II. The ignorance of the great men of the world about it: [i]Which none of the princes of this world knew[/i] (1Co_2:8), the principal men in authority and power, or in wisdom and learning. The Roman governor, and the guides and rulers of the Jewish church and nation, seem to be the persons here chiefly meant. These were the princes of this world, or this age, who, had they known this true and heavenly wisdom, would not have crucified the Lord of glory. This Pilate and the Jewish rulers literally did when our Redeemer was crucified upon the sentence of the one and the clamorous demands of the other. Observe, Jesus Christ is the Lord of Glory, a title much too great for any creature to bear: and the reason why he was hated was because he was not known. Had his crucifiers known him, known who and what he was, they would have withheld their impious hands, and not have taken and slain him. This he pleaded with his Father for their pardon: [i]Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do[/i], Luk_23:34. Note, There are many things which people would not do if they knew the wisdom of God in the great work of redemption. They act as they do because they are blind or heedless. They know not the truth, or will not attend to it.

Matthew Henry

[i]In Col. 1:23 Paul said: "...from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which has been preached to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister." Come now, Paul. At no time has every living person heard the gospel. Indeed, millions of people have come and gone without having had any contact whatever with the Bible.[/i]

[b]Which was preached to every creature which is under heaven[/b] - It cannot be supposed that it was literally true that every creature under heaven had actually heard the gospel. But this may mean:

(1) That it was designed to be preached to every creature, or that the commission to make it known embraced everyone, and that, so far as the provisions of the gospel are concerned, it may be said that it was a system proclaimed to all mankind; see Mar_16:15. If a vast army, or the inhabitants of a distant province, were in rebellion against a government, and a proclamation of pardon were issued, it would not be improper to say that it was made to every one of them, though, as a matter of fact, it might not be true that everyone in the remote parts of the army or province had actually heard of it.

(2) the gospel in the time of Paul seems to have been so extensively preached, that it might be said that it was proclaimed to everybody. All known countries appear to have been visited; and so zealous and laborious had been the heralds of salvation, that it might be said that the message had been proclaimed to all the world; see Col_1:6; compare the notes at Mat_24:14.

Albert Barnes

[i]One of the great misquotes of Paul is found in Acts 20:35 where he says: "...ye ought to support the weak and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive." Nowhere in the New Testament did Jesus make such a statement. Paul's oratory apparently got away from him.[/i]

Ignorance is bliss, especially if one has an agenda such as this self described satanist (curious, where did she ever get her ideas about satan in the first place?). She is mistaken. The principle is testified to throughout the life of the Lord even if the exact phrasing is not recognized. The Sermon on the Mount. Mat 6:1-4 [i]Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.[/i]

Mat 6:20-21 [i]But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.[/i]

Joh 15:13 [i]Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.[/i]

If it must be said more didacticly to the point of contention;

[b]The words of the Lord Jesus[/b] - These words are nowhere recorded by the evangelists. But they did not pretend to record all his sayings and instructions. Compare Joh_21:25. There is the highest reason to suppose that many of his sayings which are not recorded would be treasured up by those who heard them; would be transmitted to others; and would be regarded as a precious part of his instructions. Paul evidently addresses the elders of Ephesus as if they had heard this before, and were acquainted with it. Perhaps he had himself reminded them of it. This is one of the Redeemer’s most precious sayings; and it seems even to have a special value from the fact that it is not recorded in the regular and professed histories of his life. It comes to us recovered, as it were, from the great mass of his unrecorded sayings; rescued from that oblivion to which it was hastening if left to mere tradition, and placed in permanent form in the sacred writings by the act of an apostle who had never seen the Saviour before his crucifixion. It is a precious relic - a memento of the Saviour - and the effect of it is to make us regret that more of his words were not recovered from an uncertain tradition, and placed in a permanent form by an inspired penman. God, however, who knows what is requisite to guide us, has directed the words which are needful for the welfare of the church, and has preserved by inspiration the doctrines which are adapted to convert and bless man.

[b]It is more blessed to give[/b] - It is a higher privilege; it tends more to the happiness of the individual and of the world. The giver is more blessed or happy than the receiver. This appears:

(1) Because it is a condition for which we should be thankful when we are in a situation to promote the happiness of others.

(2) because it tends to promote the happiness of the benefactor himself. There is pleasure in the act of giving when it is done with pure motives. It promotes our own peace; is followed by happiness in the recollection of it; and will be followed by happiness forever. That is the most truly happy man who is most benevolent. He is the most miserable who has never known the luxury of doing good, but who lives to gain all he can, and to hoard all he gains.

(3) it is blessed in the reward that shall result from it. Those who give from a pure motive God will bless. They will be rewarded, not only in the peace which they shall experience in this life, but in the higher bliss of heaven, Mat_25:34-36. We may also remark that this is a sentiment truly great and noble. It is worthy of the Son of God. It is that on which he himself acted when he came to give pardon to the guilty, comfort to the disconsolate and the mourner, peace to the anxious sinner, sight to the blind, hearing to the deaf, life to the dead, and heaven to the guilty and the lost. Acting on this, he gave his own tears to weep over human sorrows and human guilt; his own labors and toils to instruct and save man; his own life a sacrifice for sin on the cross. Loving to give, he has freely given us all things. Loving to give, he delights in the same character in his followers, and seeks that they who have wealth, and strength, and influence should be willing to give all to save the world. Imitating his great example, and complying with his command, the church shall yet learn more and more to give its wealth to bless the poor and needy; its sons and its daughters to bear the gospel to the benighted pagan; its undivided and constant efforts to save a lost world. Here closes this speech of Paul; an address of inimitable tenderness and beauty. Happy would it be if every minister could bid such an adieu to his people, when called to part from them; and happy if, at the close of life, every Christian could leave the world with a like consciousness that he had been faithful in the discharge of his duty. Thus dying, it will be blessed to leave the world; and thus would the example of the saints live in the memory of survivors long after they themselves have ascended to their rest.

Albert Barnes

Richard, brother. You have done no wrong nor need worry at all. Recognize the ailment that you mention, it still has it's barnacles in me though perhaps not as many. Growing up my mother used to call me a 'worry wart' and it was very true. Always trying to be the peacekeeper, always overly concerned about most everything and unable to stand the strife and arguments though they were really few and far in between. Am really weary of this line as it is often used
by a coworker and I have caught it's contagion but; No worries! Prayer and trust brother.

I took a quick look at this site and some of the links and one thing came to mind. I wonder if any of these people have been shown Christian love? Turn the cheek kind of love. Perhaps a few of them may be converted through thorough debating and debunking of their arguments, but I would guess that if they were shown love from us "fundies", they would find that hard to resist. Just my two cents. Chris

...except a link by itself.

By adding a link in the Sermonindex forum to another website, it's relevance rating is strengthened with search engines such as Google.

Sermonindex is an established site with with a lot of solid content on Christianity, so it is probably quite 'respected' by the search engine computers as an authority on the topic. When the search engine computers see a link on Sermonindex to a blasphemous website, it interpretes this as an endorsement, especially since both sites contain similar words and as far as the computer can tell discuss the same topic.

The end effect is that the website is more likely to be found in a search engine because it's relevance rating has been boosted by the link.

People who have commercial websites work hard to get links from relevant, established websites to boost their chances of being found.

PassingThru

In response to brothertom, what I meant to say, more specifically was that a Christian must come in physical contact with these athiests and show them love. I would readily agree that that cannot be done over the net and would also agree that some of us are called to such an apologetic ministry. I would imagine, however, that when an adamant ahtiest, who I would guess could reject all our arguments in their mind, is confronted with the love of Christ from a real live Christian, it would do a lot more than a heated debate.

Perhaps one of the reasons I feel this way is when I get into this type of debate/discussion, I become very heated and not very Christlike. I hope that clarifies things. Chris