Nonresistant and Nonpolitical by J. C. Wenger

Nonresistant and Nonpolitical

Part of the vision which captured the hearts and minds of the original Anabaptists of Zurich, Switzerland, some four centuries ago was the separation of church and state.

This meant among other things that the founders of our brotherhood held that the church ought to be wholly detached from the state. The Gospel should be preached "freely," not under the control or even protection of the state, for the state ought not to take a position of favoring one faith and sup pressing or persecuting the adherents of other views. Church and state were to be utterly separate in personnel, means of entrance, function, means, and end. The church was to be made up of the converted and committed disciples of the Lord Jesus, while the state served all men by maintaining law and order. The state is entered by the natural birth, but the church by the new birth. The state employs law and the threat of force, while the church relies on the power of the Word of God and the Spirit of God.

It is the function of the church to proclaim the Word of God, to win the lost to Christ, and to nurture those who turn to Him. It is the function of the state to restrain evildoers and to assume some responsibility for what might be called the "natural life" of its citizens. The only sanction of the church beyond brotherly rebuke is the excommunication of the impenitent, while the state has weapons to curb the criminal, and may deprive him of his liberty. The head of the state is a mere man, while the Head of the church is none other than Jesus Christ. One corollary of this doctrine of separation of church and state is that the state as state has no voice in the control and direction of the church. The church must heed its own Head, Christ, and obey His Word, the sacred Scriptures.

The other corollary is a twofold one: (1) the church can not ask the state to turn aside from its role of promoting public order by demanding that it follow the ethic of the church; and (2) the church is nevertheless responsible to uphold before all men the will of God that men should live by love, and that justice should be administered in all human relationships. This first half of the second corollary means that for nonresistant Christians, any office in the state which involves the use of violence and the possibility of taking human life (constabulary, military, and magistracy-for the death penalty is sometimes imposed by judges) is not a possible option. Mennonites, have therefore historically felt unable to serve in those three areas, as police officers, as soldiers, and as judges who must administer the laws of the land, and who must even send criminals to the gallows.

The second half of the second corollary is the difficult one to apply in a modern democracy. Surely the church needs more than ever to give its witness against every form of injustice, whether it be against the maltreatment of the poor by the rich or the maltreatment of minorities by the majority. It is in proper order for individual Christians, for congregations, and for conferences to speak out in favor of justice and against all unrighteousness. This obligation is clear, and increasingly in recent decades our brotherhood has sought to be faithful in this area, especially through the General Conference.

Something else needs to be said at present, however, and it needs to be said clearly and emphatically. The central function of the church of Christ is not merely to try to abolish all forms of evil and injustice. The most basic function of the church is to proclaim the everlasting Gospel to the salvation of men and their gathering into the blessed fold of the redeemed. Our supreme guide here is the teaching and example of our Lord and His apostles. First-century Christianity was dynamic; it began an amazing transformation of human society-a transformation which turned the world right side up: but it did so not by political methods but by the faithful proclamation of the Word of God.

Many citizens cannot do any more than employ political methods, but the people of God can. They can use the radio and the pulpit; they can establish Sunday schools and mission stations; they can and must fulfill the function which only the church can fulfill. That function is to make Christ known. And as men come to know Christ, they will in turn be trans formed.

Society surely needs to be regenerated. But the regeneration it most needs can never be achieved by passing laws and taking political action. The only regeneration which will ever truly change men is individual regeneration. Christ's primary message today is therefore, LET THE CHURCH BE THE CHURCH!-

-J. C. Wenger.

From the GOSPEL HERALD, MARCH 15, 1966

Nonresistant and Nonpolitical by JESUS

Matthew 5:1-16
And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: [2] And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying, [3] Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. [4] Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. [5] Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. [6] Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. [7] Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. [8] Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. [9] Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. [10] Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. [11] Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. [12] Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
[13] Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. [14] Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. [15] Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. [16] Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 5:38-48
Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: [39] But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. [40] And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. [41] And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. [42] Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
[43] Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. [44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; [45] That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. [46] For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? [47] And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? [48] Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Matthew 6:9-15
After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. [10] Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. [11] Give us this day our daily bread. [12] And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. [13] And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. [14] For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: [15] But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Matthew 26:52
Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

John 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Luke 23:34
Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

Matthew 28:18-20
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. [19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

We are simply to do and teach what he has said and taught by HIS example.

pastorfrin wrote:
Matthew 5:38-48
Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: [39] But I say unto you,

But I say unto you....there we have the change from the old to the new....

Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

I would like to know from scripture how you kill someone of your enemies as a soldier in an army and while you're doing it love them at the same time.

the whole thing falls if you dont accept the theology of martyrdom. I know the objections "what if someone attacks our nation" or if someone comes into my home, or if this or that happend.

What then?

By Gods grace we die.

I know all dont have that light but thats what i believe is right.

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were [b]strangers and pilgrims on the earth.[/b]

If we are translated from this world to Jesus kingdom we dont belong in this world,

Mat 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
Mat 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

So many Christian serve their nation and not God, they swear an abomination oath to their government and promise faithfulness.

Or by voting trying to build a "better" kingdom here upon earth, instead of

Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Do we desire a better country? or we are simple happy to start building it here instead.

its interesting Jesus once had the opportunity to be king on earth. He refused it.

Satan offered him the kingdoms, he refused it.

but so many are building nations and kingdoms here on earth. Getting involved.

2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

I am an ambassador here on earth on behalf on another kingdom, i dont get tangled up in its affairs, I dont wear their uniform, if your American ambassador in Sweden should start wearing Swedish uniform, buy a house, and start voting in Sweden, you would label him a traitor.

I know many quote Romans,

Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

But Paul dident write this to a Christian, or talking about a Christian. He probably meant Nero, a christian murderer and persecutor.

But even these are Gods servant the ungodly leaders and nations serve God, even Usama bin laden was Gods servant even as Nebuchadrezzar was.

Jer 25:9 Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the LORD, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations. . The Word of God shows God uses these men for his will as he will.

God will do justice with these wicked rulers, not we. We dont need fight becuse God will

Jer 25:12 And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, that I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the LORD, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans, and will make it perpetual desolations.

some reformers did as they where burning and drowning people. Some made crusades and slaughtered people with bible verses.

Not much has changed today, we still have christian "nations" making wars (crusades)

Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

We still fight, our method has changed.

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

we dont fight those with guns and bombs. This war are we called to

Satan has so many laboring under an old testament understanding of the kingdom.

moe_mac wrote:

hmmhmm wrote:

Satan has so many laboring under an old testament understanding of the kingdom.

If you knew your Bible well enough you would that the passage about Jesus and the centerion is in the New Testament and not just be arguing for the sake of argument on staying with the theology you were taught while you were growing up.

You are assuming much brother.

I dident grow up Christian, i dident hear the name Jesus ever mentioned to me my first 20 years of my life.

By Gods grace i have known the Lord almost three years, he has been good tyo me reveling much to me through his holy word and his people.

These things has come to be my conviction from reading the bible and looking at church history and reading other Godly mens writings and teachings.

moe_mac wrote:
At the least you would make an effort to stay with the passage mentioned and tell me how Jesus rebuked the soldier explain to me where I was missing it. Instead you get off on a rabbit trail because it is the only way you can even remotely appear as though you have a valid case in your argument.

I am sorry, i will do my best to stay with your verses, i will post later brother

You can speak out clearly brother if you are saying something at me. I am referring to "know anyone?"

I can take a rebuke if i did this evil thing you say i did. Do you think my rabbit trail as you call it has no "meat" in it? is it not according to what the sum of the bible teach?

I am concerned about what you belive, since i belive you are wrong, hence i try and prove you are wrong with scripture, and some short comments on them for you. You dont listen. And you dont have to.

you have been brought up in a country that often times has a flag next to a cross in their church.

I think we have all been one way or the other been brainwashed by our society what to think and believe. i know i have and i do my best by Gods grace to rot out any swedish in me that might go against Gods word.

we need to wash that out with the word of God.

even if it goes against what you where brought up with in believing.

hmmhmm wrote:
I think we have all been one way or the other been brainwashed by our society what to think and believe. i know i have and i do my best by Gods grace to rot out any swedish in me that might go against Gods word.

we need to wash that out with the word of God.

even if it goes against what you where brought up with in believing.

Amen, brother. Often this process of "washing out" is very painful, but [b][u]IF[/u][/b] we love the truth, more than our pride (personal or national) the Lord will bring us to light, sooner or later. I hope it will not be too much later!

Hello...

I understand why the overseers of this website wish to prohibit the discussion of politics. It isn't because they believe that we are supposed to cut off every tie to the manner in which this world operates. We still pay taxes. Our Administrator, Greg, is forced to operate according to the rules laid before him by the governments in which he ministers. If he wants to travel to the United States or the United Kingdom, he must have a passport. If he desires to obtain "non-profit" status, he can use the laws that have been created and established by politicians who were voted into office.

We need to understand that there is no occupation of a "politician." A politician is simply a word meant to describe someone who works in the administration and management of the government. He is just another guy who decided to serve in such an office for what he thought -- right or wrong -- would be the betterment of his community, state, or nation. An accumulation of votes is what puts such a person into service. A lack of votes puts the other guy into service. Either way -- by participation or non-participation in the casting of a vote -- one person will win each election. If enough "good" people do nothing, then we can rest assured that something bad might result.

Like I have said before, a vote is simply a voice. It isn't declaring "allegiance" to a candidate, a party or even a social agenda. Rather, it is simply stating (by a little "x" on a piece of paper) just who you think would do a better job in governing. Oddly enough, it is just as much a "voice" as those amongst us who loudly oppose any interaction with such things. A person can vote FOR a particular reason (to lower taxes, end a war, etc...) or AGAINST a particular reason (to STOP abortion, to STOP government recognition and protection of homosexual "marriage," etc...). It might not necessarily be for the reason of embracing the totality of a candidate's beliefs.

Someone once said that those who refuse to vote shouldn't have their right to complain later. They could have used their voice (by voting), yet chose not to. I feel the liberty to vote. I would even feel the liberty to enlist in the military. While some believers might believe that this equates to declaring allegiance to a government, nationality or ideas ABOVE our allegiance to God -- this is not always the case. Sometimes, it is honorable to "choose" between candidates according to which we think is best for our families, our neighbors and our temporary country and citizenship.

I think that it is silly for individuals to go about claiming that any sort of involvement in society is prohibited by Scripture. Jesus paid his taxes -- which were used to fund a godless pagan Empire that ruled the world. Paul used the Roman roads. He used his Roman citizenship (yes, he stated that he was a citizen of Rome) in order to get out of a beating and he "appealed unto Caesar" in order to get the Gospel to Rome and the "house of Caesar." This didn't make Paul any less of a believer, nor did it equate to placing Rome ahead of Christ. In fact, Paul used these things to advance the cause of Christ.

When I vote, I always do so with the glory of Christ in mind. I also consider the needs of my family, fellow believers and neighbors. If I don't want to have my home taken by the government to be turned into a highway, I get involved with the government (by voicing my concern). The government is not perfect -- and it is far from a "holy" thing -- but it is the institution ordained by God. My vote simply reflects my choice between possible alternatives as to what I think is best for this temporary country that we are "passing through."

This situation is far from established. Yet we would do well to state that anything we feel in this matter reflects our own opinions and beliefs. It would be helpful to identify this as such. Yet I have noticed that those who are the loudest in opposition to any such involvement are often the loudest in opposition to decisions by individuals in government (such as the war). Ironically, many do not see the similarity between a voice uttered through a vote and a voice uttered through a complaint. They speak as if those who choose to utter a voice to or in the government are already serving Satan. This is a dangerous statement to make without using those powerful little words, "[i]It is my opinion/belief[/i]..."

:-(

moe_mac wrote:

hmmhmm wrote:

Satan has so many laboring under an old testament understanding of the kingdom.

If you knew your Bible well enough you would that the passage about Jesus and the centerion is in the New Testament and not just be arguing for the sake of argument and hard headedly staying with the theology you were taught while you were growing up.
At the least you would make an effort to stay with the passage mentioned and tell me how Jesus rebuked the soldier explain to me where I was missing it. Instead you get off on a rabbit trail because it is the only way you can even remotely appear as though you have a valid case in your argument.

Luke 7:1-10
Now when he had ended all his sayings in the audience of the people, he entered into Capernaum. [2] And a certain centurion's servant, who was dear unto him, was sick, and ready to die. [3] And when he heard of Jesus, he sent unto him the elders of the Jews, beseeching him that he would come and heal his servant. [4] And when they came to Jesus, they besought him instantly, saying, That he was worthy for whom he should do this: [5] For he loveth our nation, and he hath built us a synagogue. [6] Then Jesus went with them. And when he was now not far from the house, the centurion sent friends to him, saying unto him, Lord, trouble not thyself: for I am not worthy that thou shouldest enter under my roof: [7] Wherefore neither thought I myself worthy to come unto thee: but say in a word, and my servant shall be healed. [8] For I also am a man set under authority, having under me soldiers, and I say unto one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it. [9] When Jesus heard these things, he marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. [10] And they that were sent, returning to the house, found the servant whole that had been sick.

Moe,
The centurion was a soldier who scripture says heard about Jesus in a time of need. Scripture does not say the centurion was a believer before he sent word to Jesus about his sick servant.

He very well may have laid down his arms and not continued as a soldier after he placed his faith in Jesus. Jesus may have instructed him to do so, scripture does not say.

History does lead us to believe, that if he continued his faith in Christ,
he would not have continued as a soldier as the idolatrous rites enjoined on the Roman soldiers were totally inconsistent with the Christian character.

Jesus did not say he had great faith because he was a soldier, but because he placed his faith in Jesus and Jesus alone for the healing of his servant.
Oh that we would do the same today.

Moe, your insinuations, insults, and accusations
are not becoming of a Christians character, we are to operate in love even when we disagree.
This is not a battle, but a discussion of the scriptures among the body of Christ.
Love ya Mac

In His Love
pastorfrin

moe_mac wrote:

Oddly enough a person can skip around in God's Word and copy and paste scriptures to falsely form and fit their theology, as you just did. In replying to my post, just as the others before you, you no attempt to explain why Jesus did not rebuked the soldier about his occupation. Same ole stategy, to get off on a rabbit trail from the subject at hand and the scripture at hand.

Brother Moe... What is the issue here?

Regardles if you are right or wrong, your arguement/debate on this subject is taking second fidle to your tone.

I love you man, but check yourself in prayer over this. Not one of these folks are above rebuke, but these are some pretty solid brothers and sisters that your harping on. Is this truly advancing the Kindgom?

:-)