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Christian youth and secular education?

T
theopenlife May 18, 2008

I've been thinking about the educational system lately, and about whether or not Christian parents ought to send their children to secular schools.
I found this blurb on thenicenecouncil.com, a Christian education group, to be compelling...


"...where the Holy Scriptures do not rule, there I advise no one to send his son. Everyone not unceasingly busy with the Word of God must become corrupt; that is why the people who are in the universities and who are trained there are the kind of people they are. For this no one is to blame with the training of the youth. For the universities ought to turn out only men who are experts in the Holy Scriptures, who can become bishops and priests, leaders in the fight against heretics, the devil and all the world. But where do you find this true? I greatly fear that the universities are wide gates of hell, if they do not diligently teach the Holy Scriptures and impress them on the youth." - Martin Luther

Imagine if Martin Luther was raised from the dead and toured America's educational system; public schools and Colleges. Would he not shaken his head in disbelief? Not disbelief at what is going on, but disbelief in that Christian parents have ignored his warning and those of other godly leaders. For Luther was not alone in sounding the alarm,

"I am sure as I am of the fact of Christ’s reign that a comprehensive and centralized system of national education, separated from religion, as is now commonly proposed, will prove the most appalling engine for the propagation of anti-Christian and atheistic unbelief, and anti-social nihilistic ethics, individual, social and political, which this sin-rent world has ever seen”. Dr. Archibald Alexander Hodge

So far, my impression is until a child has obtained a matured, rational mind, particularly to the causes and consequences of things, he or she ought to be protected from unmonitored agents of secular influence. This does not mean prohibiting all association whatsoever with unbelievers, but that their involvement must be dutifully guarded during their years of greatest vulnerability. I would not consent to a secular education in the liberal arts - literature, philosophy, music, history, and sciences - until the child has demonstrated a competent and culpable understanding of biblical Christianity and its place in the world, from the vantage of a believer. I hardly expect this to occur in a disciplined home at an age earlier than fifteen years old, and as late as twenty-two.

What are your thoughts?

sermonindex May 18, 2008


theopenlife wrote:
I've been thinking about the educational system lately, and about whether or not Christian parents ought to send their children to secular schools.
I found this blurb on thenicenecouncil.com, a Christian education group, to be compelling...


"...where the Holy Scriptures do not rule, there I advise no one to send his son. Everyone not unceasingly busy with the Word of God must become corrupt; that is why the people who are in the universities and who are trained there are the kind of people they are. What are your thoughts?

My thoughts are, in America we have seen how it worked for 200 years in the blessings of God in the obedince of many. For 40 years now we have been able to observe how it becomes when the Christian's sit back and let the liberals set the agenda and trained up our children in the way they should go. The liberal schools have trained up a generation that don't have enough discernment to know what type leader a nation needs nor how to live and honor HIM. That was purpose of taking God out of school (separation of church and state they cal it in the name of righteousness). The devil put that in the minds of few, so he could take over the minds and deceive many. Most so-called are so blind they won't even put up the least bit of resistance against it in their ignorance of the schemes of the devil. Well, we just need to pray they say. If they are praying and God is answering, just exactly what kind of instruction is he giving them. Are they checking to see if it is consistent with that of His wrotten Word. There was one of those type christians and his family drown in the flood once. He was sitting in a flooded area, on top of his house, a boat came by the save him, get in they said, he said no, God will save me, another boat came by and said get in, he said no, God will save me, finally a helicopter came by, he said no, God will save me, and then he drown. When he reached heaven, he said, "Lord why didn't you save me in the flood". God said I sent 2 boats and a helicopter by and you didn't take them.

Many nations, such as the UK and recently Canada have already made this mistaken in Christain inactivity and letting the liberals set the agenda. You think these nations would warn America but no they seem to enjoying seeing America fall. Misery loves company I guess. Sometimes even helping the situation, by spreading the devil's rhetoric to deceive.

sermonindex May 18, 2008

Godless Public Education & Sin
by Reg Barrow

Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones. (Luke 17:12)

In this newsletter we will attempt to answer three basic questions.1

Is the present system of public education Godly or Godless?2

Can a Christian remain faithful to God and His law and still send his children to such a system or does this necessarily involve sin?

And why or why not?

The application (or general equity) of the principles enumerated here can often be applied to other areas of life also. Public schools have been singled out because, as the Earl of Athlone (Governor General of Canada from 1940-1946), said,

"To this day there exists in the world in all classes of society a veritable revolt against Divine Law, the Moral Law, which they strive to eliminate from the education of its youth and government of its nations. Education without religion sooner or later marches to its doom."3

Furthermore, Martin Luther has pointed out the extreme importance of this question, when he stated,

"I am afraid that the schools will prove the very gates of hell, unless they diligently labor in explaining the Holy Scriptures and engraving them in the heart of the youth."4

Also, there is no doubt that the "public schools have become the established church of secular society."5

Moreover, as evidenced by the words of our LORD in Luke 17:12 (above), this is not an issue to be taken lightly. "For a church or for parents," says Rushdoony, "to have no regard for the fact that their children are receiving a godless education is a mark of apostasy."6 Or, as Henry Van Til states,

"In the great spiritual warfare the forces of darkness are organized against the Lord and his anointed. Any organization that claims to be neutral, as do the public schools and some labor organizations, is by that token denying Christ's claims of absolute lordship over all things. As such they are serving the cause of the antichrist. To deny this is either willful blindness or woeful ignorance of the devil's devices and the claims of Christ."7

I hope that the words offered herein will be enough to spark a prayerful meditation upon the holiness of God and obedience to His law regarding the education of your children.

What is Sin?

To serve God faithfully we must know the answer to the question: What is Sin?

To answer this question we will turn to what many consider one of the most useful literary documents ever produced, the Westminster Shorter Catechism. Its simple, yet profound statement of biblical truth, given in answer to our question reads,

"Sin is any want of conformity unto, or transgression of, the law of God (1 John 3:4)."8

For the purpose of placing the public education system under the searchlight of the Word of God, this definition, coupled with another helpful exposition from the Westminster Larger Catechism, will prove most illuminating.

Question 105 of the Westminster Larger Catechism asks,

"What are the sins forbidden in the first commandment?"

The answer reads in part,

"The sins forbidden in the first commandment, are, Atheism, in denying or not having a God, Idolatry, in having or worshipping more gods than one, or any with or instead of the true God... (Ps. 14:1; Eph. 2:12)."9

The first transgression of the first commandment, Atheism or "no Godism," with a capital "G", would be more than enough to bring a guilty verdict against almost all (if not all) public schools.

The public school's own documents, policies, textbooks, teachers and goals clearly attest to this fact.10 Almost a hundred years ago, Dr. A.A. Hodge of Princeton Seminary wrote,

"I am as sure as I am of the fact of Christ's reign that a comprehensive and centralized system of national education, separated from religion, as is now commonly proposed, will prove the most appalling enginery for the propagation of antiChristian and atheistic unbelief and of antisocial nihilistic ethics, social and political, which this sinrent world has ever seen."11

Most prophetic indeed!12 The case has also been stated in this way:

"Obviously the schools are not Christian. Just as obviously they are not neutral. The scriptures say that the fear of the Lord is the chief part of knowledge; but the schools, by omitting all reference to God, give the pupils the notion that knowledge can be had apart from God. They teach in effect that God has no control of history, that there is no plan of events that God is working out, that God does not foreordain whatsoever comes to pass... the public schools are not, never were, can never be, neutral. Neutrality is impossible. Let one ask what neutrality can possibly mean when God is involved. How does God judge the school system which says to him, "O God, we neither deny nor assert thy existence; and O God, we neither obey nor disobey thy commands; we are strictly neutral."13

"The big lie of the public schools is that the God of the Bible is irrelevant. The textbooks never mention Him. Everyone assumes that children do not need to know anything about God, God's law, and God's Word in order to become educated people. This is Satan's own lie."14

These testimonies could be multiplied, but the point may be better illustrated by taking a look at your own situation and responsibility before God. To whomever you send your children (assuming you are not already home schooling), you are delegating your God-given authority (in loco parentis), as stewards of these precious little souls, to have them trained in accordance with the revealed will of God.

Whom then are you sending your children to?

Is it to those that love, honor, and obey the God of the Bible, recognizing His Word as the final authority over all areas of life?

Is it to those who understand that man's chief end is to glorify God?

Is it to those who worship God out of a clear conscience, sprinkled with the blood of Christ?

If you cannot answer a resounding yes to every one of these questions, it is time to seek the Lord in repentance and begin to rectify this situation.

That is, unless you can produce a Biblical mandate for sending your children to those who are the enemies of Christ and of His gospel.

Can you do this?

This sin is doubly compounded in the case of ministers (elders) as they will "receive the greater judgement" (James 3:1) should they violate their vows of obedience to Christ and stumble the flock , by sending their own children to be taught by the "Moabites and Amorites" of the 20th century.

Soon to be Sheared Shepherds

Gary North, not known as one who pulls his punches, has summarized the situation beautifully:

"Those parents who care enough to get their children into their , the parents', schools, by financing those schools, will not be so ready to swallow secular humanism... They are paying for the future, and their vision concerns the future. The man who sends his children into the public school system is presentoriented, no matter how much he protests. The war against the enemy of Christ, secular humanism, will not be won through the leadership provided by presentoriented defenders of the government school system. The battle for Christian Reconstruction is manyfaceted, but there is a single "litmus test" to separate the shepherds from the soontobesheared sheep in this battle: their support , financial, familistic, and verbal , of the Christian day school movement. Anyone who fails this test may still be a regenerate sheep, but he should be recognized as one about to be sheared. If you choose to lead men away from humanism's shearing, rather than follow the flock into the shearing room, then start doing something to build up an independent Christian school... And if you can't put up with that, then start your own. But stay out of the camp of the soon to be sheared."15

Just in case there are those who remain unconvinced, I will leave you with one of the first arguments that helped me see the wisdom of the Christian (and home) school movement.

Suppose a "minister" was asked to teach your children's Sunday school class at the religious meeting house you attend. This "minister" denies the deity of Christ, the Trinity, and the plenary inspiration of the Bible.

Would you allow this man to teach your children or would you protest?

If you would protest, why would you do so?

Obviously, because to give your children over to an antichristian teacher is a violation of God's law.

Now, at what point does it become lawful before God to send your children to sit under the teaching of this same man at the state established "religious" meeting house down the road , called the public school? The only difference in instruction involving a change of location and time and the assumption of a fictitious neutrality.

Covenant Keeping

"I can see little consistency," stated J. Gresham Machen, "in a type of Christian activity which preaches the gospel on the street corners and and at the ends of earth, but neglects the children of the covenant by abandoning them to a cold and unbelieving secularism."16

The excuses for taking the short term "easy" road of public education are legion among Christians. They range from "I can offset the public school's influence by teaching my children at home between lunch and after school" (which only admits of guilt, while at the same time begging the question), to the always present "I don't have the time" or "I can't afford it" (though large mortgages, new cars, televisions, etc., are easily affordable).

Eternity will witness the damage that such a selfish and ungodly agenda produces.

Are you a covenant (law) keeper or a covenant (law) breaker when it comes to your children's education?

FOOTNOTES:

1. A short note and some suggested reading on the related issue of the State and education. Though the family has the primary stewardship, in Scripture, of the children in regard to education, it does not automatically follow that the State has no place or interest at all. In fact, the character of the State, the purpose of its interest, and whether the normative or regulative principle apply here are all much more important primary questions that need to be answered. Some of these questions are answered in: The Church of Christ by James Bannerman (1869, reprinted by SWRB, 1991); The Scottish Theory of Ecclesiastical Establishments by George Smeaton (1875); and A Free Disputation Against Pretended Liberty of Conscience... by Samuel Rutherford (1649). Notwithstanding, when the State is against Christ and His law, it is usually best that it have as little as possible to do with education.

2. Without the one true and living God of Scripture they, of course, still have a god; it is not however the triune God of the Bible, but an idol of their own making (and ultimately Satan) , there is no neutrality! Cf. Herbert Schlossberg, Idols for Destruction (Crossway Books, 1990).

3. Ed Vanwoudenberg. A Matter of Choice (n.p., 1989), p. 93.

4. Cited in Christopher Klicka. The Right Choice, The Incredible Failure of Public Education and the Rising Hope of Home Schooling, An Academic, Historical, Practical, and Legal Perspective (Gresham, OR: Noble Publ., 1992), p. 88. This book is must reading for anyone interested in Christian education. The author is Senior Counsel of the Home School Legal Defense Association. Joining the HSLDA is also a very wise choice. Their address and phone number are given at the end of this newsletter.

5. Ivan Illish cited in Klicka, The Right Choice, p. 75.

6. R.J. Rushdoony. God's Plan for Victory: The Meaning of Postmillennialism (Fairfax, VA: Thoburn Press, 1980), p. 30.

7. H. Van Til. The Calvinistic Concept of Culture (Philadelphia, PA: Presbyterian and Reformed Publ. Co., 1959), p. 209.

8. Answer to question 24 of the Shorter Catechism in The Westminster Confession of Faith (Scotland: Free Presbyterian Publications, [1648] reprinted 1994), p. 139.

9. Ibid., p. 187. A careful reading of this whole section of the Larger Catechism dealing with the moral law, as it pertains to the duty of man, is a highly profitable exercise of the "spiritual muscles", see questions 91-152.

10. Cf. R.J. Rushdoony. The Messianic Character of American Education (Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Company, 1960).

11. Cited in Klicka, The Right Choice, p. 45.

12. If you want to see how far some powerful people have literally fulfilled the words of Hodge in our day, see the video The Guiding Hand: Inside Bill Clinton's Mysterious Outcome Based Education Laboratory (Cleveland, OH: American Portrait Films, 1992). Marlin Maddoux (USA Radio Network) called this look at political brainwashing, aimed at youth through the education system, "the most frightening thing I have ever seen in my life." It will certainly encourage you not to take your freedom for granted.

13. Thoburn cited in The Right Choice, p. 92. Cf. Dr. Greg L. Bahnsen, The Myth of Neutrality and Christian Education (cassette or video, 1992).

14. Robert Thoburn. The Children Trap , Biblical Principles for Education (Ft. Worth, Texas: Dominion Press, 1986), p. 34.

15. Gary North. Backwards Christian Soldiers (Tyler, Texas: Institute for Christian Economics, 1984), p. 141.

16. J. Gresham Machen, Forward in Faith (Chicago: National Union of Christian Schools, 1934).


A
awakenwithin May 19, 2008

THis something worth prayinag and thinking much about
Thanks
charlene
May we wlak in ways of the Lord. May He give us much wisdom

sermonindex May 20, 2008

Homeschooling... it's the only way to go! We've been homeschooling since our 13 yr old turned 5.

Why do we home school? Why do I think Christians should not send their kids to the secularpublic school? Cuz the Word of God says:

[b]Psalm 1:1-3[/b] [i]Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.[/i]

And...

[b]Deuteronomy 6:6-7[/b] [i]And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.[/i]

Doesnt get any clearer than that.

Speaking of homeschooling... is there anyone here that is going to the [b]North Carolinians for Home Education[/b] Conference this week in Winston-Salem, NC?

We'll be there... You never know, you might bump into me in the crowd of 12,000 people!

If you live close enough to go, it's not to late. You may have trouble getting a hotel room at this point... most people book 6 to 9 months in advance. But it is an incredible event.

Here's a link:

http://nche.com/conference/index.php

Dont let the picture on the first page fool you... thats just a workshop, and there are usually 4 or 5 workshops going on at the same time. The NCHE conference usually pulls in upwards of 12,000 people.

By the way, you dont have to live in NC to go. People come from SC, VA, TN, GA... it's one of the biggest homeschooling conferences in the south.

Krispy

M
Miccah May 20, 2008

We homeschool our children and will be doing so until at least High School, maybe until graduation.

I am blessed to have a wife with a 4 year degree in teaching and wanting to be a stay at home mother. No reason to send a child into a godless state mandated classroom where heathenism is taught from the get go, when I have a God fearing wife that can teach at home. But even if my wife was not a certified teacher, we would still homeschool.

I have had people say that I am sheltering my children. A reply that I like to use for this specific question is, "If that means that my children won't learn swearing, disrespect of authority/parents, being mean to others, fighting, hatred of God, and coming home pregnent, etc... then yes, I am sheltering my children from that".

Usually quites them down a bit.

sermonindex May 20, 2008

No reason to send a child into a godless state mandated classroom where heathenism is taught from the get go

I prefer to call them the "government slop trough"... I think that's the reality of it.

Krispy

C
ccchhhrrriiisss May 20, 2008

Hi theopenlife...

What are your thoughts?
My wife is a public school teacher. After teaching for four years in public schools, she pretty much gave up hope in the public education system in America. However, this year, she is teaching at what she describes as "Heaven" when compared with the "Hell" of the past four years. She is teaching at a small high school (about 400-500 students) that is composed mostly of the children of ranchers, cowboys and ranch hands. In fact, the entire school district is actually located on a large ranch (with the exception of the high school). As you can imagine, these children are often raised with a more "traditional" set of values -- including the respect of elders.

The school permits some children from other districts to enroll in the schools. However, this comes only after a rigid and highly selective application process that admits only some of the best students (in behavior and academics). The school also maintains a "0 tolerance" policy in regard to behavior. If a child shows that they cannot behave or accept discipline, they are kicked out of the District. Fortunately, the parents of these children are often a motivating factor in the attitudes of the students.

Unfortunately, not all parents are so blessed with such a district.

My wife taught Mathematics in both Middle School and High School. It pained me to watch her arrive to her home (before we were married) with tears in her eyes because of both the way that she was treated and the hopelessness of the situation. Yet she maintained her light for Christ in that very dark situation.

In addition, we both have taught at the University level. I suppose that there is a huge difference between public schools and public universities. In the University, we have the liberty to kick a student out of the class for any number of reasons (non-attendance, behavior, etc...). Students are also motivated by the fact that they are paying for the opportunity to learn. Thus, the classroom setting is very different than public schools.

Teachers in America's public schools are "bound" to rules that advance certain students who are not worthy of advancement. Age, mental aptitude, school accredidation factors and parental concern can cause a student to be advanced who hasn't proven himself or herself in the classroom. The public school system in America has turned teachers into counselors, behavior therapists, lunchroom monitors, paper graders, and targets of abuse by unruly students. In addition, the motivation factors of teachers differ strongly from Administrators. School and District administrators want the school to meet State and Federal standards, while teachers are supposed to worry about the retention of knowledge in the students. Sadly, there is often a struggle between teachers and administrators and parents. Whereas a teacher might feel that it is best to remove a "special" student out of a regular classroom (i.e., Algebra), the Administrators and parents often fight to keep them in the classroom in order to meet objectives by the State and Federal guidelines.

Since my wife and I do not yet have children (we've only been married for a year), we haven't had to face such a dilemma yet. We probably wouldn't have a problem with a child attending a school in a District like the one in which my wife works. However, we would certainly have a problem with sending our child to ANY of the other schools for which she has struggled over the last four years. Most likely, we would prefer to educate our children ourselves (or in a very selective private school) before allowing them to stand as a light in the public schools.

One thing is certain: If you do decide to send your children to a public school, I suggest that you spend quite a bit of time each day going over the things that they are taught at a public school. You should teach your children to challenge and dismiss the worldly and ungodly information that is fed to them each day (whether it comes from a teacher, a counselor, a textbook or fellow students). You only get one chance at raising a child. I suspect that we would only want the best for them.

:-)

sermonindex May 20, 2008

If you do decide to send your children to a public school, I suggest that you spend quite a bit of time each day going over the things that they are taught at a public school.

Actually, if you send your kids to public school you need to spend [b]just as much time[/b] when they get home going over and undoing what the public school has done that day.

If your kid is in the public school 7 1/2 hours a day... then be prepared to spend at least 7 1/2 hours a day with them at home teaching them the truth... otherwise the lies of the world will win. You cant spend 1 hour, or 2 hours... or 3 hours... you HAVE to go toe to toe with the public schools or you will be fighting a losing battle.

Your wife is qualified to teach (actually any parent is qualified to teach if they are willing)... brother, work two or three jobs if necessary, but keep her home with your children when the time comes. Whatever you have to do. You love your wife and future kids? Then lay your own life on the alter for them to be homeschooled and as unstained by the world as possible.

Krispy

M
Miccah May 20, 2008


KrispyKrittr wrote:



Actually, if you send your kids to public school you need to spend [b]just as much time[/b] when they get home going over and undoing what the public school has done that day.

If your kid is in the public school 7 1/2 hours a day... then be prepared to spend at least 7 1/2 hours a day with them at home teaching them the truth... otherwise the lies of the world will win. You cant spend 1 hour, or 2 hours... or 3 hours... you HAVE to go toe to toe with the public schools or you will be fighting a losing battle.

Your wife is qualified to teach (actually any parent is qualified to teach if they are willing)... brother, work two or three jobs if necessary, but keep her home with your children when the time comes. Whatever you have to do. You love your wife and future kids? Then lay your own life on the alter for them to be homeschooled and as unstained by the world as possible.

Krispy


Wow. You posted almost the exact same post I was going to reply with. Amen to your reply.

One thing that I do not think can be overstated. Sending children to public school is allowing the school system to "program" your child. If they are there 8 hours a daygetting programmed, you need to spend 8 hours a day deprogramming them.

C
ccchhhrrriiisss May 20, 2008

Hi Krispy...

Actually, if you send your kids to public school you need to spend just as much time when they get home going over and undoing what the public school has done that day.

If your kid is in the public school 7 1/2 hours a day... then be prepared to spend at least 7 1/2 hours a day with them at home teaching them the truth... otherwise the lies of the world will win. You cant spend 1 hour, or 2 hours... or 3 hours... you HAVE to go toe to toe with the public schools or you will be fighting a losing battle.

I agree! I am thankful that my parents were believers -- but I was quite the agnostic until High School. Why? Because I thought that I was "too intelligent" to believe in God. The precepts taught in Biology just seemed far too plausible to my young mind. Thankfully, the Word of God "does not return void." I had an encounter with God as a teen that turned me from agnostic to a relationship with Christ in a very short period of time, culiminating with my repentance and crying out to the Lord as I was alone in a field one night at summer camp.

It is extremely tedious to sort through the information that was presented to me in a public high school following my conversion to Christ. However, I approached all of my schooling with the knowledge that I was being taught what the world thinks rather than what is truth. I answered those questions on each AP Advanced Biology, Chemistry and Physics test knowing that I was answering them according to the material that they presented, rather than what is truth. I still managed to earn good grades and graduated near the top of my class. This attitude also accompanied me in college too.

Your wife is qualified to teach (actually any parent is qualified to teach if they are willing)... brother, work two or three jobs if necessary, but keep her home with your children when the time comes. Whatever you have to do. You love your wife and future kids? Then lay your own life on the alter for them to be homeschooled and as unstained by the world as possible.
I am fairly certain that my wife and I will educate our children at home (or in a very selective private school) until they become of an age in which they can decipher (as believers) between what is presented and what is truth according to the Word of God. My wife is a certified public school teacher (with certifications in Math, Spanish, ESL, Bilingual Education, and Special Ed) -- but she cannot imagine a scenario in which she would offer our future children to the public schools at a young age. Like you said, she would spend just as much time untraining them and then retraining them into what is right. This is why the opinion of the court in Calfornia mattered so much to us. We hope to relocate to the Palo Alto, California area by the end of the summer. If we remain in California for a while, we realize that we will likely desire to begin the formal education of our children at home (or in a home school alliance).

I suppose that we might reconsider such a thing as they grow older and can influence others with the light of Christ (rather than be influenced by the darkness of this world). I worked well in a public high school after having come to the Lord -- and I even led some of my teachers to a relationship with Christ. However, I saw other young believers who fell by the wayside due to the influences of the world that birthed a desire in them to "taste" those things that are not becoming of a believer.

By the way, Krispy, does your wife educate your children solely in the home, or are you a part of some sort of home school alliance that shares the instruction? I have heard of local churches that open their facilities for home schoolers, which allows some parents the liberty to fulfill other duties when necessary (with other trusted parents monitoring the children). It would also provide children the opportunity to learn alongside other believers. I suppose that this sort of thing could compensate for the interaction that many feel is necessary in the social development of children.

Any ideas about this?

:-)

sermonindex May 20, 2008

Jesus said,"Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

God has given children not to the state/government but to parents.

The following is a brief summary of my own experience as an employee of the state/goverment institution of what is called school/education:

(MY NAME HERE), Plaintiff, vs. (SCHOOL NAME)SCHOOL DISTRICT, Defendant.
Civil Case No. ____________
Comes now Plaintiff (MY NAME) and brings suit
against the (SCHOOL NAME) School District.
NATURE OF THE ACTION
This is a case asserting Plaintiff (MY NAME)
fundamental Constitutional and civil
rights,specifically the rights of freedoms of speech and free exercise of religion, the guarantee of equal protection under the law, and the violation of those rights by Defendant (SCHOOL NAME) School District. The
controversy is over the Defendants’ violations of
Plaintiff’s Constitutionally protected First Amendment rights of speech and free exercise of religion as well as their denial of equal protection and due process pursuant to the Fourteenth Amendment of the United States Constitution and violation of Plaintiff’s civil
rights pursuant to _____. Plaintiff also
alleges a violation of Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, __________, et seq.
Specifically,Defendant’s wilfully interfered with
Plaintiff’s exercise of his First Amendment rights to free speech and religion, have denied and continue to deny him equal protection under the law, have denied and continue to deny him due process under the law,have discriminated against him on the basis of his sincerely held religious beliefs, censored his speech,defamed and punished him for the exercise of
those rights.
The Plaintiff, (MY NAME), is a resident of the
State of _________________,previously being employed by (SCHOOL NAME) School District. The (SCHOOL NAME)School District is an organized central school district in the State of
__________ and governed by the Laws of the State of __________. Plaintiff (MY NAME) is a Christian, a fact which has been known to his employer for some time after the
commencement of his employment with the (SCHOOL NAME)School District . Defendant has both actual and constructive knowledge of this fact. Upon information and belief and at the times Plaintiff responded to the students inquiries, the Defendant (SCHOOL NAME)School
District had no policy restricting employees from
engaging in any type of conversation with students.
The subject student began questioning Plaintiff about the Bible,morality, and many other questions related to spiritual and family matters. Since these were questions unsolicited by Plaintiff, and in consideration, he responded. During the questioning by the student, Plaintiff was asked if he would or could
secure a Bible the student. The Plaintiff asked if he was absolutely certain that this was the request that he was making, to which the student replied in the affirmative. He, again, asked the student if he was sure of his request, and he responded positively.
Thereafter, Plaintiff delivered a Bible to the student asking again if he was absolutely certain he wanted Plaintiff to give it to him. He replied in the affirmative and accepted the Bible. Plaintiff was required to attend a meeting with __________,Superintendent of Schools and other individuals who are employed by the school district. Also in attendance was a Union Representative, __________. At
that meeting, Plaintiff was informed that his
employment with the school district was terminated immediately,apparently pursuant to the above “series of incidents.” Plaintiff was on at least one occasion referred to as “a religious fanatic”. The Plaintiff was terminated from his employment by Defendant that it “is in the best interest of the district that your
employment be terminated”. As a result of Plaintiff’s termination, and the stigma attached to him as “a religious fanatic”, Plaintiff has been unable to continue his career and his reputation has been defamed.

I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.(IS. 45:5-7)

H
hmmhmm May 20, 2008

Luk 6:40 A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone who is perfectly trained will be like his teacher.


and yet people wonder why their children comes home as a roman when we send them to Caesar for education...

(paraphrased quote) Voddie Baucham (unsure spelling :-P )


sermonindex May 20, 2008


wisevirgin wrote:
Jesus said,"Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

God has given children not to the state/government but to parents.



Amen, untimately parents will be held responsible for how we raised our children. God also holds us accuntable for government and how we are stewards of it.[b] What one generation tolerates, the next embraces.[/b]
The government is on His shoulders and he will eventally solve everything.
I live in America and it seems we have broken over the pivot point as a nation in tolerating what is evil. Every generation and especially as individuals, will give an account on what they have done, whether they embraced and/or tolerated good or evil. If we are a government of the people, for the people and by the people, then we will give an account for that as well as our children.

H
HomeFree89 May 20, 2008

A leader in the homeschool community in our area shared a sad fact. As a general rule of thumb, the public schools set the trends and lead in corruption and the "Christian" schools are about four years behind the public schools (Not in everything, obviously. Thank God). Homeschooling is about four years behind the Christian schools as far as trends go.

sermonindex May 21, 2008

While this isnt true for [i]every[/i] Christian school... the fact is that many Christian schools are just as bad an evironment as the secular schools because many time they are filled with kids who have been expelled from numerous public schools for drugs, crimes, etc. So, without many options left, the parents send them to a Christian school.

I've talked with many folks who went to Christian schools, and they will tell you that drugs were just as prevelant there, sex was just as prevelant there, etc etc...

Home education is really the best way to go. And many say "I cant afford it!". YES YOU CAN. Get rid of one of your SUV's, get into a more affordable house, get out from under the debt you have because you feel like you have to have all this materialism... and put your kids first.

I know many families personally who get by on faith. One family I know, good friends of ours, paid their mortgage on time knowing full well they didnt have any money left for gasoline. But they believed God would have them pay their mortgage and trust Him... so they did. Not 2 days later someone anonymous gave them $700 in gas cards.

Where is our faith?

Krispy

sermonindex May 21, 2008

Many parents use the excuse "My kid is a missionary to the public school!"

I could not disagree more. When you're building a boat... do you build it in the middle of the ocean? Or do you build it on dry ground, then test it in a safe harbor to make sure it's waterproof before you send it out to sea? I contend that at 5 yrs old a child is not waterproof.

I can see that some kids around their Junior or Senior year might be old enough and mature enough in their faith to go into a public school as a "missionary". But if you have your kids involved in community activities such as sports, in my case, your kids will be around public school kids.

My boys play football, and I coach. We are alway around public school kids, and we use that as an opporunity to go into the mission field. But I will not turn my kids over for the entire day, 180 days a year. No way.

And in case your wondering... my kids LOVE homeschooling. They dont feel forced into it at all.

Krispy

sermonindex May 21, 2008

About 98% of these apply to my family!!

Krispy

[b]You might be a homeschooling family if...[/b]

... you have to explain to the park ranger that your children are not skipping school but are working on a hands on nature study. (he thought we were fishing)

... You see your 2 1/2 year old toddle past with the magnifying glass and she tells you that today she is going to "study toys."

... You might be a homeschooling family when kids answer the entire question on English history. As well as American history for family members who are trying to be wise. Egg in there faces (yes they are learning things your kids are not.) sorry I was so happy to see there faces, thought they were going to test my teaching still.

... you have memorized the barcode number on your library card from typing it in the computer every time you reserve a book.

... your 13 yr old thinks Joel Osteen's books are fluff, and prefers to read Spurgeon.
\t
... Your son skins his knee, and after making sure that he is okay, you encourage him to notice the different epidermal layers!!!

... Instead of the song "Head, shoulders, knees and toes, knees and toes", you modify it to "Cranium, Mandible, Clavicle, Scapula; Clavicle, Scapula"!!!

... you go to the mall, where you and the kids spend two to three hours in Border's bookstore reading books, miss lunch and have to run home in time to get dinner started, all the while talking about the books that everyone read as the subject of the day.

... Every time you go to Wal-Mart you buy pencils, erasers, and notebooks. I am always searching for erasers, and we use about a dozen pencils a month. There is always one child needing their color coded notebooks.

... you don't need your library card because both you & the librarian know your card number by heart.

... your kid(s) call house work home ec 101 & they are more knowledgeable about doing laundry & grocery shopping then their friends in public school.

... your house has turned into a one room school house. (I know mine has. We have only been homeschooling for one year and the books and supplies are everywhere, including the bathroom.)

... the biggest treat you get is going to the local teacher supply store and getting 20% off everything on top of the 20% you already get for being a homeschooler.

... you ask relatives to give you bookstore gift certificates instead of presents for birthday and Christmas.

... your Mom asks what books your child would like and you give here a 10 page list of the books you are looking for.

... you are always asked "Why aren't your children in school?" to which you reply "They are." when you are out and about.

... you had to buy a bigger vehicle just so that you can cart around all the schoolbooks and supplies when you go to grandma's.

... you have bookshelves in every room of the house and you always need more.

... you know your credit card number by heart because you buy so many things, usually books, off Ebay.

... you get a Paypal account and credit card just so you can pay the auctions.
I think that is enough to get everyone laughing. If I think of more I will post them if ya want

... You really DO have science projects growing in the refrigerator, on the dining room table, in the yard...

... Your 4 year old tells your mother that butterfly caterpillars make a chrysalis, not a cocoon. He knows this because he watched it happen. Your 12 year old can name 20 species of butterflies and has seen, and or "raised" most of them.

... You actually LIKE your own children and couldn't imagine any other way of life than being able to spend as much time as possible with them and consider that a joy.

... A Christian improv team comes to your town asks for funny words and your 12 year old son pipes up with XANTHOSPOMOLDIA! The guy turned to him and said what kind of school do you go to? Eric said I'm home schooled. The comedian said figures. Xanthospomoldia is a yellow mold, by the way.

... your kids are outside on a sunny spring weekday making plaster Paris animal tracks while all the other kids in the neighborhood are in school.

... your bookcases look like the reference section of the library.

... your 6 year old corrects the checker about the amount of change they should get back--even if they are being overpaid.

... you have ever had a mummified chicken sitting on your kitchen counter.

PS. In my defense on the corn--we were studying the digestive system and they wanted to know how long it would take for food to go through the entire system so..... I know it is a little unorthodox, but, hey, they learned something from it

... you have the same addiction that I have....books....

... instead of thinking about the in-laws you are to see on vacation you try to figure out how many field trip options are near by...

... the pet parakeet walks around on the desk tearing workbooks while math is ongoing. And the puppy "sings" along during piano duets.

... you have to replace everyone's bikes every other year because they are just plain worn out from use

... you have 6 Rubbermaid tubs in the back of your van that are never removed (1 for river stuff - tadpoles, snakes, algae, etc; 1 for stuff for nature hikes; 1 for clothes for the Y; 1 for books so they don't get wet; 1 for picnic supplies for when you don't make it home for meals; and 1 for 1st aide and emergency car repairs)

... your kitchen is filled with an ant farm, a worm farm, tadpoles and frogs, gerbils, hermit crabs, anoles, garden snakes, 3 different sizes and pairs of breeding birds, a pregnant cat, 4 aquariums with different types of fish, and 3 excited children

... your window sills aren't big enough

... you spent a month at the underdeveloped camp grounds doing the Westward expansion

... you side yard becomes one big botany experiment after another

... your children's public school friends' parents hate you because their children want to be homeschooled too

... your public school teaching husband is jealous of your freedom in teaching

... you don't understand why other parents have to go to work to get away from their own children because you enjoy yours so much

G
ginnyrose May 21, 2008

Wisevirgin,

I am curious, what was the outcome of this lawsuit?

ginnyrose

sermonindex May 21, 2008

During the questioning by the student, Plaintiff was asked if he would or could
secure a Bible the student. The Plaintiff asked if he was absolutely certain that this was the request that he was making, to which the student replied in the affirmative. He, again, asked the student if he was sure of his request, and he responded positively.
Thereafter, Plaintiff delivered a Bible to the student asking again if he was absolutely certain he wanted Plaintiff to give it to him. He replied in the affirmative and accepted the Bible.

This is just amazing... in the public schools kids are shooting each other, selling drugs to each other, having sex with each other, etc etc... [b]teachers[/b] are having sex with students and throwing beer bashes for underage middle school students... and it used to be male teachers who did this, and now it seems more female teachers are doing these things than men...

... here we have a teacher in trouble for supplying a student with a Bible?

Have we gone insane?????? Any judge who even considers this to a viable case ought to be hung out to dry.

Krispy

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