CREDIT CRUNCH

I constantly get phone calls from companies who want me to take out a loan for credit cards, store cards etc.

I tell them I don't have any, and then the phone call has to end, because it isn't something they normally hear.

As it is, the credit crunch is being talked about on the news almost on a daily basis.

Over the years, people have lived above their means, and now, it is catching up with us, and the entire world is feeling the consequences.

As it is, the Christian should trust in the Lord to meet their needs. Sadly however, there are probably Christians taking out loans, having credit and store cards, getting in debt etc, exactly like the world is doing, and then telling the world that they are trusting God.

Sometimes, when it seems like God is not coming through, we turn to the world for help, as if God has let us down.

Psalm 1 tells us that the man who rejects the counsel of the ungodly is blessed. These people are sinners and scoffers, yet we run to them rather than God.

Isaiah 30v1-5 tells us of those who walk down to Egypt.

How is it we can trust the Lord for our salvation, but not for our finances, our needs etc.

If you are wondering why I wrote this, it's because of things I have seen and heard, and it is also for us to check where our trust really lies.

Just food for thought.

As it is, the Christian should trust in the Lord to meet their needs. Sadly however, there are probably Christians taking out loans, having credit and store cards, getting in debt etc, exactly like the world is doing, and then telling the world that they are trusting God.

Just a sincere practical question, but, how in this world does one buy a house or car without taking out a loan? I mean, one might be able to save up to buy a decent car in cash. But, saving up to buy a house is near impossible to do unless you make a lot of money. Should Christians just live in apartments or trailer parks?

*edit* I ask this out of serious consideration. I'm just moving out on my own into an apartment for the first time, and would like to marry my fiance in a couple of years. We'd like to eventually live in a house. Together we'll make a comfortable living, but, no where enough to ever buy a house in cash.

Here is somewhat of a rhetorical question.

If I go into a restaurant that you typically eat before you pay, am I in sin from the time between I have ate and actually paid the bill? Because in that time I "owned" them money.

Most would say no because there is an (in this case unspoken) agreement that you will pay before a certain time (in the case before you walk out). If you pay for the service at the time when you agreed to pay for it, is it sinful? There are actually several things we use before we pay for- utility bills are the obvious example.

With that said, I believe we should be debt free if it's at all possible. If God called you to go to X, how hard would it be to go if you have a mountain of debt to pay?

Hi KingJimmy...

Just a sincere practical question, but, how in this world does one buy a house or car without taking out a loan? I mean, one might be able to save up to buy a decent car in cash. But, saving up to buy a house is near impossible to do unless you make a lot of money. Should Christians just live in apartments or trailer parks?

*edit* I ask this out of serious consideration. I'm just moving out on my own into an apartment for the first time, and would like to marry my fiance in a couple of years. We'd like to eventually live in a house. Together we'll make a comfortable living, but, no where enough to ever buy a house in cash.

Eventually, they earned enough money to buy a few acres of land in the Rio Grande Valley of south Texas. Her dad eventually found a job as a janitor (first at K-Mart and now at Wal-Mart). With this money, they were able to build their own home from the ground up. All the while, the children completed public school and went on to college. The last sibling in high school graduated a couple of weeks ago. She will begin at Stanford University this fall.

The first attempt at a house by my wife's family was shabby at best. It more resembled a shack from a third world country than a home. However, they recently complete a new two-story brick home. It is a much larger, five bedroom home. We spent many days doing the work ourselves. They moved into it over a year ago (when it was nearly complete). This house is much better than the shack that they lived in before. Better yet -- it is completely paid for! They never borrowed a dime!

Now, I am not advocating the idea that home loans are unscriptural. My parents purchased their home and property with a 20 year home loan, and were extremely excited when they paid it off. My wife and I are paying on a vehicle for which we could never have afforded it with cash. Yes, we could have afforded a cheap, older used car. However, I don't know that I would trust such a vehicle to travel across the country (safely).

However, it is possible to save enough money and purchase land...and then build your home over time. Each of my wife's career siblings built their homes (rather than purchase one on a home loan). Since they have substantially more income, they were able to pay individuals to work. This helped them complete the homes in a much faster manner. They have beautiful, modern brick homes -- and they don't owe a dime on any of them.

So, yes, it is possible to build a home and pay it off without the necessity of a home loan. While this may not be for everyone -- it is possible. My wife and I are making preparations to move to the Palo Alto, California area this summer. We do NOT plan on purchasing a home there. We hope to rent...and save our money for an eventual home elsewhere. Property and building is much less expensive elsewhere.

:-)

Great testimonies Chris.

Great topic. This is something that I have been wrestling with for the last few weeks and has been on my mind on and off for about 2 years. Here is the reason.

I took this present position about 2 years ago that I am working in now, with much prayer. It is a higher paying position that is demanding, but rewarding (financially and spiritually). While in prayer about taking this position, I came to the understanding that I would be in this position just long enough to pay off my earthly debt. I really believe that The Lord does not want His children bounded by the world and wants to free us from this bondage.

Once the debt is paid off, my family and I, more then likely, will be moving to Thailand and begin the Lords work in the non-American missionary field.

Until that time, I am to pray, lead a house church, work and prepare my family for the Lord's calling.

Are we in debt? yes. Is being in debt as a Christian ok? No. Does this mean that I am in sin? (Good question Christiaan :-) ) I do not know if this is a sin question or not. We can all agree that we should not be in debt, but as life has it, most are in debt.

One thing for sure, I am in debt to our Lord Jesus Christ. This is a debt that I can never repay, but I will always strive to pay it by obeying Him and His will.

Amen, brother Slavyan.

NotMe wrote:
When you spend 20 years to pay it back, fearing the loss of your job constantly so you can make that next payment?

This is a modern day slavery. Taking those money automaticly you are becoming slave. Slave to everything, mainly to the banks and the system, but not slave to God. Slave living in a constant fear. This is everything, but not the life that the Lord called us.

NotMe wrote:
Apart from our unbelief that the Lord is sufficient for us and will provide our daily needs (not what we want but what we need), which unbelief leads us to take a loan, [b][u]we are also effectively trading our future for[/u] it.[/b]

Yes! That is true. The question that comes is: Is this life ours, that we could trade it and sell it?

1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, [b]from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;[/b]
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

But when you rent an apartment and sign a lease, aren't you essentially doing the same thing as taking a loan? For the only way to get out of the lease is to pay the rest of what you owe for the year, or get somebody else to rent out your apartment.

Rebecca_LF wrote:

If things get really bad in the public school system...

I think that time is here sister.

In Bulgaria, they even want you to pay for 1+1 months before you move in. So in case you move out without paying your bills, they have some sort of protection.

Indeed, here we are paying for next month as well. But when we sign a lease to rent an apartment, it is for a term (usually 6 months or 1 year). To get out of that lease, one either has to pay the rest of the rent for the remainder of the lease, or whatever penalities stipulated in the lease agreement. You are not simply free to go whenever you decide you want to.

Also, in the long run, is it not better to pay a fixed rate loan, where the amount one pays is the same every month for the life of the loan, than to pay rent every month, where the rate will (generally speaking) increase every year or two?

Hi Tears_of_Joy...

This is a modern day slavery. Taking those money automaticly you are becoming slave. Slave to everything, mainly to the banks and the system, but not slave to God. Slave living in a constant fear. This is everything, but not the life that the Lord called us.

Isn't this going a little [i]extreme[/i]?

Are you saying that anyone who owes any money for anything is a [i]slave[/i] to this world?

Look -- if you go into a restaurant or a drive thru window at a Kentucky Fried Chicken, you can order anything that you want. However, you have to have enough money to pay for it before you leave. If you have enough money to pay for it, you aren't a "slave" to the fried chicken, the restaurant or the world's banking system. It is just a means to pay for the meal.

If you own a construction company (or any other business), you are exchanging their work for money. Typically, workers are paid AFTER they finish a 40+ hour work week. In other words, you OWE them money because they worked a certain number of hours for you. The vice versa is also true. If you work for a company, that company is indebted to you according to the amount of hours that you worked. If you worked 40 hours that week, then the company is required to pay you for those 40 hours.

The same can be said for various services that we partake of. If you have a phone, internet service, electricity or water at your home -- you are "borrowing" those things until you pay for them (usually at the end of a month). Should I cut those services off because I am effectively "borrowing" for them?

If you were to call 9-1-1 in an emergency, the ambulance will come, pick you up, take you to the hospital, apply medical care, monitor your health, and then send you home with a HUGE bill. You are now in debt (unless you have adequate health insurance or government health assistance like Medicare/Medicaid). The bottom line is that most of us are in debt -- but we only consider indebtedness in the big things.

If I buy a home via a 20 or 30 year payment plan, I own the home. While this is considered a [i]loan[/i] by the bank, it is actually a means to purchase a home via monthly payments. Few of us could afford a $250,000 home (the national average) via cash. Few of us could afford a $25,000 vehicle (or even a $2500 vehicle) via cash. However, a credit company will allow us to pay for such an item via monthly payments. Sure, the reason they do this is because they make money off of the interest rate. But is it a sin to own a house or car through such a means?

If I purchase a house through a 30 year mortgage plan, I will own that home IMMEDIATELY. I am responsible for the property taxes (and not the bank, former owner, contracter, etc...). I can SELL the house and even make a profit from it. The "home loan" is literally a means via a person can own a home by making monthly payments. It is the equivalent to renting the house until it is entirely paid for (with interest). It is like a lay-away plan in which you can own the item immediately -- before it is entirely paid for. In most circumstances, it is cheaper to make a house payment than it is to rent a house.

I think that the implication of [i]slavery[/i] is going a bit far. Why? Because a person can walk away from the house at any time. They can sell it, refinance it, or even mortgage it. If your house or car was to be repossessed (due to lack of payment), then you would only "owe" the difference between what you paid toward the principle and what it was resold for. In many cases, the difference is advantageous to the bank or credit company (which is why they repossess it in the first place)!

This is very different than a person who borrows money for no apparent reason...or a person who achieves bad credit via credit cards. Many times, a person will "buy" things via credit for which they do not have an adequate means to repay. This is true indebtedness.

I do believe in living a "debt free" life. Like I stated earlier, I believe that a person -- even in the United States -- can afford to build a home without borrowing a dime. However, it is difficult to do such a thing in every area of our lives. Most of us are forced to make payments on one thing or another. The difference is whether or not we are willing to continue working in order to pay for those things.

Some good advice is to put off as many purchases as possible until you have the means to pay for it with cash. If you can pay for it BEFOREHAND, it is much better than paying for it over a long period of time. If you are forced to make payments, make sure that you continue to make those payments.

:-)

Just thinking out loud: In a sense, when you buy something by taking a loan, you technically own it while you make payments on it. However, if you are unable to continue to make payments on it, the item is seized in order to satisfy the remainder of the payments needed. So, instead of the bank being satisfied by receiving its money in full 30 years from now, should you default it seeks to be satisfied instantly. Either way, the bank is satisfied, whether now or later. For when you take a loan from the bank, they loan you money against the value of the house. The house you own simply is the security for the loan you are given.

To me, it seems, the lack of wisdom would be in the taking of an unsecured loan (credit cards), whereby no surety can be made towards the lender that you will be able to repay. For the in case you default on your home loan, you are able to pay in full by means of your home. Whereas with a credit card, you are up the creek without a paddle.