Women in ministry:..All of Isaiah 61.....Your thoughts?

Galations, 3, vss 26 through 29. for you are all son's of God through faith in Jesus Christ! for as many of you that were baptized into Christ, HAVE Put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave, nor free, [i][b]There is neither male nor female;, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.[/b][/i]

And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, [b]and heir to the promise."[/b]

Exactly what is the ministry? I believe the ministry can be defined as the holy Spirit Acting. I believe that this acting, or anointing is available. ans a part of being in Christ, for every Born Again soul, and as the text above states, He dwells in all, not respecting sex, race, or position. This is the nature of the body of Christ.

All of Isaiah 61. No exceptions. Isaiah 61 is the ministry, which, by the way, is independent from the Authority inside of the Church.

The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me, because the Lord has anointed me to preach.

If a female desires to share her faith in Christ, and lifts up her voice, say as Maria Wordsworth Etters did, is this out of order? To, declare to the lost, that Jesus is Lord, or one on one, as missionary sisters have done for millenia? It is absurd to think that one would quench this, if it were of Christ, and Holy faith!

This is the good news! a woman can proclaim her Savior's love to the meek, and some sisters have been burnt alive for doing so.

He has sent me to bind up the broken hearted, and to proclaim liberty to the Captive.

I think of Jackie Pullinger, and her ministry to the Prostitutes in Hong Kong..[ the forbidden city is no more...the communists bulldozed it,], and many, many more compassionate women today, saving souls, and proclaiming liberty to the captives. I wish we had 10,000 like her and them, leaving a wake of glory, and deliverance behind them.

[b]Jesus had a mercy ministry on Earth, and He still has one today, for whoever captures His heart![/b]

He opens the door to the prison, and He will use anyone who so desires, male, or female. The heart of God, and His power to impart it, does not rest on the Brother alone,

To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the Day of vengeance of our God, to comfort all who mourn.

Can a woman instill faith to her children? How about her friends. How about those in the workplace? How about strangers she meets? How about anyone she so desires to, or is led to? Can she tell them, that Jesus is soon returning, and now is the time to repent, and believe, for you are not guaranteed tomorrow? Can she, through the living graces of the ministry of Comfort, comfort the hurting? Maybe it would be OK to do so to the same group mentioned above.

I submit to you, that everyone who walks with Christ, has this ministry. It's called Love, and God anoints His Word, with the carrying of His heart, and, cannot women have a heart for God?

The issue is Authority within the meeting, primarily. A woman must not usurp power over men. They are not to declare doctrinal foundations,as by nature,are a weaker vessel, and thereby deceived easier. In these areas they are not to usurp, over men or speak, in meetings. It is not their place. But Paul also said, that he desired all to prophesy, and that the giftings were allowed, along with a spontaneous song. an edifying testimony, a Word of Wisdom, or Knowledge, or other prophetic utterances, such as tongues and interpretation. Are the gifts of the Spirit only given to men? Did the Lord somehow cut out women, and divide them to be a second class of non gifted drone servants, who kept house, and had babies. Always in silence. ...If you want to see crushed Spirits, try some of the Aberration of Christianity who have laid down these oppressive laws for their sisters. It is akin to Islam, and to me, profoundly disrespectful, and generally a dishonor to the female Christian...

stop for repost for timing sake....

-*

To appoint them that mourn in Zion, to give them beauty for ashes, and the oil of joy, for mourning.

Again, can a sister have love, that emits from the throne? Faith works by Love. A sister can carry Love and Joy, can't they? well it is absurd to think not, yet this is the foundation of the ministry of Jesus, and the mission He desired, that through His love, "They might Believe."
God's love heals.

But YOU..[plural] shall be named the Priests of the Lord: men shall call you"The ministers of our God![ this is the ministry, see?] Isaiah 61 vs. 6.......

You also[plural]as lively stones, are built up as a spiritual house, A holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God, by Jesus Christ.[the anointed one.!

Are women Priests too, in this Spiritual house? I think it is ignorance to think not! Neither male, nor female. One body, and one in Christ, The anointing cannot, nor is it contained in the Male alone.

We have surrendered one half of the church to an essentially non-functioning role. This has partly came, through our ideas of the meeting. [b]THE MEETING IS NOT THE CHURCH![/b] It is a portion, yes, but the church are the members of it, whether they are nursing a child, working in a field, or being martyred. The church is us. One Lord, one Faith one Babtism, that has one Spirit, that does not hide or change because He happened to choose a female to redeem. He is the Same, always.

However, there is a difference, as I have noted, in the Administration of oversight, and authority, especially in the doctrinal realms, that are relegated to men, for obvious reasons of the Lord. Women, and females are a weaker vessel, according to the Word, and as the order of Adam, and God's decree that she should be under Adam, so is it today. A woman is not allowed to Teach, or to usurp authority over a man. It is unnatural. It puts pressure on women, who by nature, do not have the makeup to endure it.

I will now speak by experience. In my time as a radical believer, about 35 years[it doesn't mean anything], I have seen many, many women as Pastors, or wannabes. I have not found one...no not one, that had not entered into some sort of glaring error. I am not talking about missionaries. I met a sister, in her 80s, that radiated Jesus more than any other person I have ever met. She prayed for me, and my heart melted, and life changed..[..somehow, I know that she was not a teacher, or Pastor.]

Have you ever heard of Mrs. Tozer? I haven't, but I bet she was one knock down whale of a Godly woman! Did you ever hear of Him, and the holy brothers like him, introduce his wife as PASTOR? I don't think so. This is a neo-pentecostal idea, that is blatantly unscriptural, but it keeps the Pride a pumpin', and Momma happy. [also Jezebel dancing.] YUK! Yet it is prevalent today, as the scriptures are tossed out, for a more peaceful home, and more power to rule over "my" church.

The Elders are to allow the Holy Spirit free reign in the meetings of the Church. It is as unscriptural to have a "one man show", as it is to have sisters running it. There is not one example in the new testament, where a plurality, of Equals as Elders, or Shepherds, were instituted. Of course, this is poo-pooed as unnecessary, for "it's just not practical".

The Shepherd's were never intended to dominate a meeting, but, "When you come together, [b]each one [/b] has a song, a testimony, a Word of Wisdom or knowledge...The weaker vessels were honored, for they were taught that they needed them, for more grace was bestowed upon the weak. They[the early church]liked Grace!

This was more like an orchestra playing, with a spirit of prayer, than the lonely prima donna consuming 90 % of time with his expository thoughts; A full sized MC and performer, from 1st to last. Not so, as the Lord's model. In there , it was the Holy Spirit who rules, as His dancing hand fell on Whoever He desired...young, old, Jew, Greek, male or Female...Jesus moved in these Holy meetings as He saw fit.

The Elders were anointed and called to allow and Prove Divine order, and Jesus as that ruler, during the meetings. When, they, or a teacher, though, spoke concerning Judgement and justice, or doctrinal purity, this was the domain of the Brother only, as we have discussed. This has nothing to do with the life of the sister, or the anointing and giftings that may rest upon her. to deny her if this relational ministry is to deny Christ, in another..[common union, or communion]

All of Isaiah 61, and none of the governmental rule. This is the order of the New testament. It is FREEDOM. and our sisters, like our brothers, have an opportunity to know Christ Jesus as much as anyone who has ever lived! You can not know Him, without Him knowing you, and to be possessed by Him, is the heart root of what true ministry is.

You a funny guy! I was married for 25 years, and I am so grateful to the Lord for the female! My grandaughter has me rapped around her finger, and she knows it! It is very humbling, but worth the humiliate!

Your scriptures are right on, along with the spirit of your post.

I believe a great awakening is coming in the attitude of the church toward women, and many of the bondages wiil fall off. This will not occur in our present system, but it will be outside the camp.

I would like to hear from my sisters on these issues. We need you. You are equal in ministry.

But it's alright to teach the women and children!! So are they saying, it's ok for the children and other women to be deceived by their teaching but just not the men.

In these situations the women are teaching under the authority of a pastor or their own husbands.

You can try and reason away scripture if you want to, and even mock those of us who take scripture literally... but the fact is the [b]WORD OF GOD[/b] says:

[b]1 Timothy 2:10-14[/b] [i]But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.[/i]

That should be the end of the discussion right there. But no, people dont like it so we have to have long drawn out debates trying to find a way that we can disobey scripture without getting in trouble with God.

The same question Satan asked Eve gets asked by well intentioned Christians on this very forum... "Yea, hath God said...?"

I say "Yes... God hath said!"

Krispy

RBanks: Women are not to teach, nor our they to usurp authority over men. This is not because they are the weaker vessel, which the Word declares they [b]are[/b] [I didn't write that!], but because they are separated from all [b]Governmental ministry; IE, [/b] Pastoring, teaching, and doctrinal matters. This may include the fact that women are weaker vessels by nature, and that the Head of the Woman is man, and the Head of every man, is Christ.

I hope this doesn't anger you. but My input here is that everything in Isaiah 61, which is in effect, [b]the Ministry[/b], is neither male nor female. It is a control issue, or governmental conflict , that is centered around Teaching, and Pastoral duties that are in Question here. Ministry, not teaching, or the dispensing of power, is the focus of the Liberty for all, in Isaiah 61.

I will reiterate; I have not found one woman teacher, or Pastor, that had not entered into some form of error, and the longer they did it, the more profound the error. This includes the wives of Pastors, that have assumed the role of their husbands, the dreaded ... Pastorette! "Pastors John and Suzy Doe!" Expect apostasy around the next bend....Really.

Some of greatest Saints, and powerful, have been women. The ministry is Isaiah 61. That is neither male nor female.

I would enjoy another thread to hear your definition of this, for I think it delves into the ROOT of the matter, and I really want to see my sisters set free.

Since this is called a forum, or discussion table, and not a dictitorial proclamation or teaching platform, I have deferred my convictions into a spirit of submission and fellowship, exactly as you have stated.

I have declared the Word of God, without such compromise[that is of love, and acknowledging that my views are certainly

[b]not[/b] the final answer.] before in Evangelical preachings and teachings, where His Word Alone, and the spirit of truth proclaimed the Savior. There is much that I do not understand about these issues. Perhaps you may believe otherwise about yourself, or others who may comment, alive our deceased, on this forum.

In the End of it, hasn't Scripture been sealed with the REVELATION?...and isn't every thing we say about it, somewhat subjective to [b]our[/b] understanding of it?

Because we are not God, or the "APOSTOLIC VOICE" here on this [b]discussion forum[/b], then might that mean we have our own views of a matter?

Micah?..How long have you been around here? I don't recall any of your opinions prefaced with ,"Thus saith the Lord!" You don't think that, do you? Then, it is your very own outlook, or opinion, isn't it? Therefore , if your not a Divine instrument, in the contexts of your many posts[which I have generally enjoyed], then you are giving your opinions, your experiences, your thoughts, and your disagreements, aren't you?

Getting back to the Ball, not the player. I prefaced my remarks about the Pastorate, or in most cases the unscriptural practice of a dual husband and wife team as co-Pastors, as, in my experience, a guaranteed trip to deception. I proclaim it to be the Word of God, and something that the Lord has commanded not to do. I am also commanded to know them by their fruit. In the observation of this fruit, I have seen corruption. This has came through the denial of very clear New Testament doctrines. Women have no place in Government, and every place with Christ, His Love, and power ministries according to all of Isaiah 61.

To Miccah: I perceive you as a brother, the same as I see myself. Like me, you have not yet been perfected, and yet desire to be in your pursuit of Jesus. This, is what a disciple inherently is. We all may disagree, and remember that fellowship [b]is not[/b] a meeting of the minds, but a meeting of our Spirits, sanctified in Him.

The pure and spotless redeemed Bride, undoubtedly has been fragmented on Earth, in thought, but also undeniably reconciled in Spirit. All of the redeemed will be there, even the ones that fought tooth and nail about doctrine while here on the Earth. I don't mind your disagreement with me at all. I want to add as a caveat, that it seems when we try to contain God, put Him in our Box, so to speak, He has a habit of thrashing it,; exploding it, and proclaiming that "My ways are higher than your ways, as far as the Heavens are higher than the Earth.!"

If God chooses another Deborah, to command the Army; it is OK with me. He has done it before, in the Church. Yet, in principle, the Word denies access to government to women.

I want to see my sisters clothed with Christ, and His power, the exact same as I desire myself and my Brothers to. We are one body, and each of us has the ability by grace, to be as close to Jesus, and His Authority as anyone who has ever lived. All of the Anointing for my sisters, none in the government realm.

Saying that, I agree that many try to change the Word of God, and twist it for their own benefits, or ideas. See Acts Chapter 20, for Pauls thoughts on this matter. I do not want myself caught up in this type of ministry. I always need to humble myself, though, for I am as apt as any to bring down my sword upon my brothers head, just to feel good about me being right. This is the nature of my self, created after the Devil, through my dad, Adam.

"outside the camp"

Generally it is the Word that Jesus spoke about "New wine must be poured into new wineskins!". This has been occurring since the resurrection within the walls of the Church, as the Church"settles on it's leas", a term of self sufficiency, or the template of the Laodicean rebuke in Revelation. We tend toward a form of Godliness, while in Reality throw down our Cross, in Favor of self serving gospels; those of health, happiness, and financial prosperity as paramount, rather than be changed inwardly as Christ. We no longer need God, as we are content with our own success and comfort.

Jesus was only received outside of the camp, and it was there that He was Crucified. Hebrews, the Bible book, exhorts us to meet Jesus, in this context. "Let us go unto Him, outside the camp".....

This is where the remnant Church has always been, with few exceptions. The reason is that the Pharisee's control the temple ground, the clergy/laity, the Nicolaitan one man rule..[and the pyramid of rulers under them..] and the vestiges of all Holy Spirit issues that have been quenched by mans smelly hand of domination. This is where the Lord Himself is denied, and quenched.

So the Lord Himself made a way, even in the wilderness,,,,,and outside of the Camp of religious Babylon. This is the Radical wilderness home of the early Church at Jerusalem, and the primitive foundations that the Apostle Paul layed....outside of the camp.