Regent University Theologian fully endorses Lakeland Revival

Dr. Gary S. Greig, PhD., a former Associate Professor of Old Testament and Hebrew at Regent University School of Divinity, and Senior Editor, Theology and Acquisitions for the Regal Publishing Group sent Fresh Fire Ministries a letter.

In his letter, this biblical scholar and theologian shared that the Lord had healed him of sleep apnea while entering into worship while watching a telecast of the Lakeland Outpouring.

He wrote that the Lord prompted him to write and send FFM an independent theological witness to help as many leaders and believers as possible understand that the Lakeland outpouring is from God.

That by writing this theological response to questions and criticisms in: Biblical Reasons to Receive God's Glory and Give it Away in Power Evangelism, that as many as possible would receive "biblical permission" to get on board and fully commit to receiving the Lord's glory and anointing, and to give it away in power evangelism.

The paper he wrote can be read here: http://www.freshfire.ca/UserFiles/File/drGreg_biblicalperspective2008.pdf

Martin

So? A lot of people fall asleep in church!

From the article ...

[b]Criticism generating a lot of heat but little light[/b]

Unfortunately in North America, when the Holy Spirit moves through a new leader to spread the gospel and further God’s Kingdom, there has arisen the normal rash of so-called Bible “experts,” heresy hunters, and even godly leaders in the Body of Christ who feel the need to criticize or “correct” what they do not understand

([i]1 Such an accusation betrays this professor’s own unwillingness to examine carefully Todd Bentley’s teachings and to re-examine carefully the relevant biblical passages and their interpretation by historic biblical scholarship and by theologians throughout the history of the Church: his attitude hardly represents objective theological scholarship.

2Todd Bentley, The Reality of the Supernatural World: Exploring Heavenly Realms and Prophetic Experiences, Ladysmith, BC, Canada: Sound of Fire Productions, 2005.

Biblical Reasons to Receive God’s Glory and Give It Away in Power Evangelism 3 © Gary S. Greig, Ph.D., 2008[/i])

about the way God is moving or what they show themselves to be unaware of in Scripture, as it relates to what the Scriptures show about power evangelism, the power of the Holy Spirit, and the spiritual inheritance and Kingdom mission of every believer today, that has been taught by Todd Bentley over the years and is now being taught about and ministered at the Lakeland meetings.

Not so ironic this morning musing over how applying labels and stereo-types, 'constructs' to matters is often a not so clever way to make them that much easier to dismiss. And along comes the perfect example, littered with these very types and names. If you set up a target or category, 'critics', 'so-called Bible “experts,” (And the irony, [i]Former Associate Professor of Old Testament and Hebrew, Regent University School of Divinity[/i]) then one can crowd everyone and anyone under it regardless if it is merely criticism for criticism sake or those grieved and sincerely concerned, "[i] even godly leaders[/i]" under the same all encompassing heading. It makes it all the same only differing by degree and the implication is made null.

Forget the facts and forget truth, forget testing all things, you are a 'critic' and therefore are dismissed out of hand. Is this not the make up and support of the Straw Man, set up to be knocked back down?

In all fairness it is just a mention in generalities but there is a tone to all of this that already raises the red flags but have yet to read it in it's entirety.

I must wonder out loud if there might have been a difference in how this was put forth if the writer had not been healed of his sleeping problem and just as well, if it occurred to him that in spite of these things ... Getting ahead here. I cannot do the same by outright dismissing,

[i]Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth?[/i] Joh 7:51

but I will admit my suspicions. One, of many;

"[i]Forget the weirdness and look at the fruit[/i]"

Forget? As in dismiss ... This is what scripture proposes, forget the weirdness ...?

[i]... and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.[/i]

The hope I have , is that as Elijah confronted the prophets of Baal[ which is exactly who Bentley is, and that prophetic crowd], and destroyed them, All Israel bowed to the Earth, and cried, "The Lord, He is God!..The Lord, He is God!"

This revival is focused on the "Baal" gods (i.e. the prosperity gods) and only the Holy Spirit can uncover that to some people through judgment. As Habakkuk said "in wrath, remember mercy."

Brothertom wrote:

Who would have thought it? Wow! This wasn't done in a corner. This really came from the top, or was allowed to be declared from there. CBN! Pat Robertson.

Self serving ministries everywhere have been blinded. Strong delusion has been decreed by God Himself! The end time Harvest has begun, I believe. It is a Harvest where the wicked are bundled, and the righteous are presented to the Lord. I personally am shocked, in a state of wonder.

How could this be? Foundational leaders in American Spirit filled life for decades are capitulating to a shabam, carnal, trickster that ministers a Bloodless Gospel, and glorifies "the Power" above all, while praying to angels, and receiving gifts from floating apparitions! This huckster got his doctrine strait from Paul, on his many trips to the cottages of Heaven, and brags of special truths he received from the great Apostle, and others! He said he did. It must be true, you think?

This is Strong delusion, and to think that our leaders would throw away their Bibles, and all Godly discernment that agrees with the Word, in favor of this fleshy devil [Todd Bentley] is disgusting to me, and it makes me angry. Why? Do you realize how many souls trust in them?[these national leaders] Do you know how many lambs that now believe that this is OK?...From God?,,and like it our not, they will be subject to the same Hell that Bentley is. The Hell reserved for false prophets, and their disciples!

Thank you Sermonindex for a forum that I can express my rage and sorrow. We are watching the Devil devour, and chew, and laugh in the face of our Family, and His Christ, and it appears he is winning. We are watching our leaders clap in the amen corner of this carnage....but....let him who sheaths his sword rejoice over he who bears it.

Jesus is in control, and He will not be mocked forever. He will, one day, have enough, and will destroy these serpents, and I'm grieved to say, all of those who endorse them.

The hope I have , is that as Elijah confronted the prophets of Baal[ which is exactly who Bentley is, and that prophetic crowd], and destroyed them, All Israel bowed to the Earth, and cried, "The Lord, He is God!..The Lord, He is God!"

Many who endorsed the Baal crowd, must have been in that number. Without repentence from following them, though, is the Hand of Judgement. Hell isn't pretty, but it protects the Gates of Heaven, as an eternal prison for those who hate God, and us.

Brothertom,

With all due respect, I understand what you are saying and your concerns for what's happening in Lakeland as I too have very serious concerns. I personally don't feel comfortable reading public comments from the brethren using name calling and attacking phrases to express them. We must have self control brother when it comes to dealing with issues especially publically. We must speak in love with a gentle spirit if we are to promote godliness.
I do understand and I'm just asking as a brother that we take great care in how we represent Jesus here on earth as His ambassadors.

With humility and love,

wta

Comes from the top? CBN? Pat Robertson? I am glad to not know any of these. How did this man become a [b]FORMER[/b] Associate Professor?

I rather liked having a summary of Bible verses on various subjects, though they may not be complete and would need checking, and lack in interpretive argument; I am again delighted to see this man compelled to tell the truth unknowingly. (just as I heard the author of The Shack do in his interview linked in a different thread here.)

The confession (my underlining) is found on page 37 of this document and is quoted in context:

[i][b]Clothed with the Spirit, burning with fire[/b]

Old Testament scholar, Dr. Victor H. Matthews, compares the language of “being clothed with power” in Luke 24:49 with similar descriptions of the Holy Spirit empowering leaders in the book of Judges.86 The language of Judges describes the Spirit of the Lord (ruakh Yahweh) “coming upon” (Hebrew hayah ‘al ‘come to be upon’)Othniel and Jephthah in Judges 3:10 and 11:29. The Spirit of the Lord is described as “clothing” Gideon in Judges 6:34 (Hebrew literally “Then the Spirit of the Lord clothed Hebrew lavash] Gideon”)87, and this passage is clearly the language Jesus had in mind when He spoke of heavenly power “clothing” the disciples. And finally, the Spirit of the Lord is described as “rushing upon” (Hebrew tsalakh “rush upon”) Samson in Judges 14:6, 19 and 15:14; upon Saul so that he “prophesies” in 1 Sam. 10:6, 10; upon David when Samuel anointed him with oil in 1 Sam. 16:13. The interesting thing about the Hebrew verb tsalakh “rush upon” is that it is not only used to describe the Holy Spirit being poured out on individuals, [u]but (I like this one) it is also used of fire rushing upon and consuming Israel in [b]Amos 5:6[/b]—Hebrew “Seek the LORD and live, lest He rush (tsalakh) like fire upon the house of Joseph; it will consume, and Bethel will have no one to quench it.” Sounds familiar doesn’t it . . . Lakeland, Toronto, Pensacola, Argentina, etc. . . .You get the picture.[/u]

The language outlined above of the Holy Spirit “clothing” and “rushing” like fire upon God’s people, shows that there are Holy Spirit “mantles” or giftings that God is wanting to clothe us with to get the job done of advancing His Kingdom and preaching the gospel with power to every remaining unreached people-group around the world![/i]

I too like the one he likes and points out as the picture of “Lakeland, Toronto, Pensacola, Argentina, etc.” It shows me something different than it shows him. Or do I not understand what the Word says here?

In a lighter vein for Krispy :-) : I take it that now he no longer suffers from sleep apnea, the interruption of his breathing will no longer disturb his sleeping. (Sorry, the disorder can be serious but the metaphor was too much for me.) Lots of mental slippage in this article. I need to find some Divine Love for this man. Sigh.

Read through a bit more of this, as far as I could and with a real attempt to suspend those impulses to color it with presuppositions ... unbiased, that difficult word if we were more honest, a hope that there might be something similar in the article ...

"... [i]fully endorses [/i]"

Is all too evident and very grievous. The setup's are anticipatory; A string of scriptures setup to give a certain flair and then the proverbial, "But" to explain (or explain away) everything. It's unbalanced and "proof text-ed" and most grievous of all, just dishonest. Credulity goes out the window. Any true concern is dismissed out of hand, any objection is again manipulated by the word 'critic' ...

I hate this kind of contorting and pragmatic reasoning, no matter where it comes from. I hate it when I fall victim to it and realize the hypocrisy of over doing things, over speaking, stretching the credulity of matters. Why, why is it that honesty is such a forgone ... element in our make up? Of all people ...

Where is our shared hatred for every false thing? For pretense and half-truths, for exaggeration, for phoniness? I am not now speaking of this present situation but of our dispositions. Why is "I don't know" more often the most honest answer left for dead and side stepped for "I can explain this" ... prove it, give you chapter and verse and never be stung by the conviction that we are parsing for an agenda, forcing the words to support our bent, our construct ... giving our "biblical permission" as it was put here in this article. Where is the love for the truth?

Amongst the many contributions over this whole situation was one that mentioned matters being mixed. At the time I was in no frame of mind to even consider it due to the over abundance grievous goings on there. But it stuck, and came back later and I had to recognize that it is so and makes it that much more difficult to unravel all this. We used to talk quite a bit about two words in these parts; One is 'balance' and the other is 'normative'. Balance is a tricky thing if pragmatism is used or compromise to makes us all just sweet, caring, 'unified' Brethren. The only balance I know of that is true is admitting what we do not know or understand or can easily explain away. I am straining at the root of the matter of here, our disposition.

"Normative" is something that a few of us recognized as just part and parcel experience in this life as believers, 'Normal Christianity". That is in the realm of things done by the term we use, 'miraculous' or even the maligned *more often rightly in this day) "signs and wonders".

Something I have been musing on is just how nondescript the Lord was over those things he did when he walked this earth. Often He told the people, "See that you tell no one". In other words, He downplayed them. This verse keeps coming up into my hearing lately;

[i]A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.[/i] Mat 16:4

"Seeks". This impulse and expectation and that if it fails to 'manifest' then there is a sense of "Go your way, there is nothing to be seen here." It is what grieves me that prior to all this latest razzmatazz was a seemingly quiet, little revival out in the Midwest,
[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=22967&forum=40&post_id=&refresh=Go] Revival in Jena, Louisiana[/url] that just fell off the radar, actually it only made a blip on it in the first place. And why was that? To read about the happenings there prior, the powder keg waiting to blow up over the situation and how it was all diffused ... But what was missing that would have people from all over the world flocking to it's church doors?

The 'wow' factor. The entertainment value, what else could it be? I wonder if a great deal of Christianity has even the faintest notion that they are so entangled in the the ways of the world (now indistinguishable from the church) and I am speaking of the underlying philosophy and subtle creeping of mode and method, that they are in fact bored with the piercing and truly precious things of the spirit. Reconciliation and restoration. Repentance turned into joy, conversions at the core of being ...

It seems as if it is the real life equivalent of "Let's Make a deal", all traded for what's behind door number 3. Flash, splash, a circus like atmosphere, 'healings' the great drawing card, but primary and first and foremost physical healings. This is touted as the 'proof' and bereft of it ... what then? Boredom? It is just a bit spurious that time and eternity take a back seat. The same healed bodies will meet corruption, decay and death all the same. Even Lazarus died again.

Hardly is this the same dismissal in opposition, making or placing one for the other. Again, to appeal back to normative, it is the big deal that is made of these things rather than a mindset that is not at all surprised by them if and when they do happen. The miraculous things mentioned throughout scripture seem far more that, mentioned and stated as fact as example, we are talking about the God of all the universe here so I do not know that we should be taken by surprise. There is a underlying tense in disposition that seems to be codified when Paul and Barnabas were enraptured by the people of a healing, they supposing them to be 'god's' themselves;

[i]Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:[/i] Act 14:14,15

It's the principle of the thing that I am after. We can try and downplay it by mention all we want but there is no getting around the opposite attitude that is prevalent today. Christians are the equivalent of the masses then and setup personalities who will do little renting of their clothes and stop them from saying "[i]Why do you do these things?[/i]". There is no distancing the man from the ministry. Lakeland\\Bentley. Jena ______?

This is a very poor article and disputing of the goings on there. It's confused in many places and I couldn't figure out just where it was worse with the footnotes that seemed to be bringing a correction from elsewhere. One example was in a lady that apparently had died and rigormortis had begun to set in, that they had pulled the plug as it were and she came back to life. Wonderful! The only problem was, it had nothing to do with any of this situation, whose footnote was it, what was it doing in there in the first place ... Pragmatism. Dishonesty.

Sigh ...

[u]Crsschk wrote[/u]:

[i]It is what grieves me that prior to all this latest razzmatazz was a seemingly quiet, little revival out in the Midwest, Revival in Jena, Louisiana that just fell off the radar, actually it only made a blip on it in the first place. And why was that? To read about the happenings there prior, the powder keg waiting to blow up over the situation and how it was all diffused ... But what was missing that would have people from all over the world flocking to it's church doors?[/i]

I thank God for repeating the link to a real biblical move of God in Jena. When I first saw it, through SI links, I could not miss the [u][b]timing involved[/u][/b]. Racial conflict in the south, massive media blow-up with all the political trappings, praying Christians, [u][b]Lakeland explodes[/u][/b], a real move of God on the Jena community (see the testimony of the horse-breaker), the peace of God, no-notice by media that oh so recently had been all over this. Spiritually speaking, I think Lakeland is serving the purpose of [u][b]demonic distracting[/u][/b] from God moving. He can attempt that individually in our lives. For example, when I first began to pray, for two days in a row I got a headache within minutes of my knees touching the floor that stopped when I stopped praying. I got the picture. On day three, when the headache came, I purposed to pray twice as long. The headache stopped in seconds. Of course, the devices are much greater in this move. The Saints in Jena were not distracted.

[u]Surely this man’s thinking was not so confused in the past[/u]. The confused arguments in this article are devices aimed at those educated or partially educated in the Bible who would never embrace what is shown on YouTube. And what a feather in the hey-day happening for those that do not know the Bible. As Toronto showed, without Biblical Revival, the recovery for individuals, should it occur, will be long and costly. Glance at it if you must but dwell on the things of God (the Word of God, Christ).

Edit: I do understand how we are grown up uniquely by His Holy Spirit to be useful differently. For me, at this time, it's only a glance.