Troubling Questions for y'all

A book by Dr. F. Lagard Smith entitled [u][b]Troubling Questions for Calvinists[/b][/u]... And all the rest of us. One thing that seems clear is that he is out to show the fallacy of original sin. The chapter on original sin begins with 15 questions that I thought I would put here for your consideration.

Under a section entitled What Fell in "the Fall"? he writes,

[b]1:[/b] What do you think? Were Adam and Eve free moral beings, fully able to decide between obeying and disobeying God without any predetermined secret eternal will of God preempting their freedom to choose right from wrong?

[b]a)[/b] If not, is there any way that God himself is not responsible for their sin and "the Fall"?

[b]b)[/b] If so, were they simply exceptions to an otherwise universal rule of predestination and sovereign causation?

[b]2:[/b] Were Adam and Eve either totally or partialy depraved before "the Fall"?

[b]3:[/b] What about immediately after "the Fall"?

[b]4:[/b] By virtue of their created nature as human beings, were Adam and Eve:

[b]a)[/b] innately inclined more toward evil than good; or

[b]b)[/b] innately inclined more toward good than evil; or

[b]c)[/b] simply given a neutral capacity for moral choice between good and evil?

[b]5:[/b] Were Cain and Able (and, more crucially, are we ourselves)"constitutionally different" from Adam and Eve in respect to any innate inclination to sin? If so, in what way?

[b]6:[/b] Is there anything in the Genesis account or in the whole of Scripture specifically stating that some "constitutional change" in human nature took place between the first created generation and the first procreated generation? (We're not talking here about any imputed sin, but a fundamental difference in human nature itself.)

[b]7:[/b] Is there any passage suggesting that Adam and Eve, themselves, were "constitiutionally different" once expelled from the Garden?

[b]8:[/b] If you believe they were inclined toward good before "the Fall," or created morally neutral, do you believe that as they left the Garden they were from then on inclined toward evil?

[b]9:[/b] If the so-called "Fall" (replete with its assumed implications regarding original sin, depravity, and the lack of free will ) is the supposed cause of our sins, what explains Adam and Eve's sin prior to "the Fall" when (presumably) they had free will unfettered by either original sin or depravity?

[b]10:[/b] Was "the Fall" predestined by God's eternal secret will in order that mankind would be innately depraved and sinful for whatever purpose God intends? Or did "the Fall" occur without God's foreknowledge and foreordination?

[b]11:[/b] In the "penalty clause" of Genesis 3:16-19, we are given the specific consequences of Adam and Eve's sin, including the woman's pain in childbirth and the man's having to earn his living by the sweat of his brow. Why do you suppose there is no mention in this passage that everyone born from that point forward would be condemned from the moment of conception?

[b]12:[/b] Accepting that by the "curse of Adam" mankind was reduced to struggle and pain in a way never experienced in the Garden, is there anything in Scripture necessarily implying that mankind thereafter was innately more inclined toward evil or sin?

[b]13:[/b] Even granting that ejection from the Garden put distance between God and man as compared with the close communion Adam and Eve had shared with him, is there anything in Scripture suggesting that a fundamental change in the human constitution also resulted?

[b]14:[/b] Acknowledging the obvious, that Adam's sin introduced condemnation for sin into the world for the first time, is there anything in the fact which necessarily implies that each and every person in Adam's loins would thereafter be born innately condemned? Is there any reason that sin's condemnation could not apply, instead, to each person's own sins, just as with Adam?

[b]15[/b] In Genesis 4:6-7, God says to Cain: "If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you don't do what is right, sin is crouching at your door, it desires to have you, [b]but you must master it[/b]." Was Cain's ability to do right and to master sin limited in any way either by God's eternal secret will or by some effect of "the Fall"?
If you believe that Cain's ability to do right would have required a prior act of regeneration, what biblical passage indicates that?

First of all, original sin is NOT a fallacy.
God created Adam and Eve for His purposes and
for communion with Him. He gave them the right
(will) to chose to obey or disobey. Every human
since Adam has that choice to make: Will he
honor and obey God's word of truth or not??
And all of us (that's all without exception)
have fallen short of God's design and higher
purpose for our lives!!

Amen,

And God is the only one in Whom we have to deal with, we can not turn to mans wisdom or philosophical questions. When we stand before Jesus Christ not a one of these question will be relevant. For He is the One in whom we live and move and have our being. Matthew 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

In Christ: Phillip

Blessings to all of you. I wrote this a few months ago and I hope this helps the discussion.

Romans 5:12 is the clearest indication that we are born into more than just weakness.

"Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned"

Adam was created in a state of innocence. We know this because of Genesis 2:25, "And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed." In Genesis 2:16-17 we read, "And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

Adam disobeyed God and ate of the tree; this was sinful because it was disobedience. Genesis 3:6-7 says, "So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate. Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths."

Notice that their "eyes were opened and they knew they were naked". God had told them that they would die and they did die that moment. It was not a physical death but it was a spiritual death. It was at that moment that they went from a state of spiritual innocence to a state of spiritual death.

What was God's response? God killed an animal (First time anything had ever died) and used the skin to cover their shame. Genesis 3:21, "And the LORD God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins and clothed them."

The moment Adam ate of the fruit of the tree, his nature changed and also the nature of all who would be born from him.
Back to Romans 5:12, "Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned"

We are born with more than weakness; we are born with a sinful nature. The fact that every single person born from Adam has sinned proves that it is impossible to refrain from sin. If it was a mere weakness, then someone would have been able to live without sin.

Praise be to the Lord Jesus, who was born of a woman but the Son of God who redeemed us from our sin. Genesis 3 is a shadow of what Christ would do in that He was sacrificed to cover our shame.

[b]How unwilling men are to admit their depravity....[/b]

1: What do you think? Were Adam and Eve free moral beings, fully able to decide between obeying and disobeying God without any predetermined secret eternal will of God preempting their freedom to choose right from wrong?

[b]According to Revelation 13:8, the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, and according to 1st Peter 1:19-20, Christ (the Messiah) was foreordained before the foundation of the world. How could a Savior be fore-ordained if God had not decreed that there would be a Fall?[/b]

a) If not, is there any way that God himself is not responsible for their sin and "the Fall"?

[b]Yes. Deut 29:29. It's not our job to pry into the secret things God. We know that God has ordained all that has happened in history, for he is sovereign, yet he has remained pure and holy. Man is completely responsible for his own sin.[/b]

2: Were Adam and Eve either totally or partialy depraved before "the Fall"?

[b]No. God saw that things were good.[/b]

3: What about immediately after "the Fall"?

[b]Yes. They immediately shifted blame on who was at fault in the sin. Adam blamed Eve and even blamed God by declaring that it was the women whom God gave him who made him sin. Eve shifts blame to the devil.[/b]

4: By virtue of their created nature as human beings, were Adam and Eve:

c) simply given a neutral capacity for moral choice between good and evil?

[b]Appears most likely to me.[/b]

5: Were Cain and Able (and, more crucially, are we ourselves)"constitutionally different" from Adam and Eve in respect to any innate inclination to sin? If so, in what way?

[b]Yes. Mankind, prior to the regeneration of the Holy Spirit is now completely devoid of all good. Even his good works are tainted by selfish ends.[/b]

6: Is there anything in the Genesis account or in the whole of Scripture specifically stating that some "constitutional change" in human nature took place between the first created generation and the first procreated generation? (We're not talking here about any imputed sin, but a fundamental difference in human nature itself.)

[b]Yes. Romans 7:18 Paul declares that in his flesh dwells no good thing. This could hardly be said of Adam at the creation since in Genesis 1:31 God declares all things very good. Therefore, there was a constitutional change in the human "flesh" after the fall so that, not only is not very good, it is in fact completely empty of all good. Also, Genesis 5:3 declares that Adam bore a sin in his own likeness and image... not God's. [/b]

7: Is there any passage suggesting that Adam and Eve, themselves, were "constitiutionally different" once expelled from the Garden?

[b]The tree of knowledge of good and evil includes an experiential knowledge of good and evil. Adam and Eve now knew good and evil because they were in fact evil. Genesis 2:7 declares that they would surely die, compare with Ephesians 2:1 which says we are dead in trespasses and sins. After the fall, Adam and Eve became slaves of sin.[/b]

8: If you believe they were inclined toward good before "the Fall," or created morally neutral, do you believe that as they left the Garden they were from then on inclined toward evil?

[b]Yes.[/b]

9: If the so-called "Fall" (replete with its assumed implications regarding original sin, depravity, and the lack of free will ) is the supposed cause of our sins, what explains Adam and Eve's sin prior to "the Fall" when (presumably) they had free will unfettered by either original sin or depravity?

[b]Mankind still has free will. However, that free will is only free in the sense of the desires of the person using it. Mankind is completely devoid of any desires for good and even his "good" desires are tainted by selfishness (dead in trespasses and sins). Just because Adam and Eve were not totally depraved does not mean that they could not fall.[/b]

10: Was "the Fall" predestined by God's eternal secret will in order that mankind would be innately depraved and sinful for whatever purpose God intends? Or did "the Fall" occur without God's foreknowledge and foreordination?

[b]The Fall was predestined and allowed by God for the purpose of magnifying His name through saving man by Christ Jesus. As I mentioned above, if the Messiah was foreordained from the foundation of the world, then the fall that produced man in need of a Messiah must have been predestined from the foundation of the earth.[/b]

11: In the "penalty clause" of Genesis 3:16-19, we are given the specific consequences of Adam and Eve's sin, including the woman's pain in childbirth and the man's having to earn his living by the sweat of his brow. Why do you suppose there is no mention in this passage that everyone born from that point forward would be condemned from the moment of conception?

[b]An argument from silence is not a very good argument. There is plenty of other Scripture that indicates that man is born depraved.[/b]

12: Accepting that by the "curse of Adam" mankind was reduced to struggle and pain in a way never experienced in the Garden, is there anything in Scripture necessarily implying that mankind thereafter was innately more inclined toward evil or sin?

[b]This has already been answered by Romans 7:18 and Ephesians 2. See above.Not to mention Psalm 51:5, which, no matter how false teachers try and slice it, still speaks of original sin. Why would David confess his mother's sin in a Psalm that is about confessing his own?[/b]

13: Even granting that ejection from the Garden put distance between God and man as compared with the close communion Adam and Eve had shared with him, is there anything in Scripture suggesting that a fundamental change in the human constitution also resulted?

[b]This is basically the same question that has been asked before. See above.[/b]

14: Acknowledging the obvious, that Adam's sin introduced condemnation for sin into the world for the first time, is there anything in the fact which necessarily implies that each and every person in Adam's loins would thereafter be born innately condemned? Is there any reason that sin's condemnation could not apply, instead, to each person's own sins, just as with Adam?

[b]Romans 5:15 declares that through the sin of one, many be dead. How much clearer do men want it?[/b]

15 In Genesis 4:6-7, God says to Cain: "If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you don't do what is right, sin is crouching at your door, it desires to have you, but you must master it." Was Cain's ability to do right and to master sin limited in any way either by God's eternal secret will or by some effect of "the Fall"?

[b]Yes, as an effect of the fall, Cain could not completely master sin. As to the legitimacy of of God commanding something he could not actually do, the same thing is true of the command to obey the law perfectly. Yes, the law is good. No, we cannot obey it. The purpose was to drive men to the mercy of God in Christ.[/b]

If you believe that Cain's ability to do right would have required a prior act of regeneration, what biblical passage indicates that?

[b]Phil 2:13, Isa 26:12, Ezek 36:26-27, 2 Cor 3:5, John 3:3[/b]

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

The liar became Adam and Eves father because they believed. Just like we become the Body of Christ because we believe in Him and what God has said about His Son.

Two trees, one of choice to believe the devil and him then becoming our father, lest why did He lie. He wanted to become like God.

The other the tree of Life, which is the fulfillment of Eph 1:4. That is why they were kicked out of the Garden, so they would be of their chosen father the devil and not live in that state and of the tree of life forever.

Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Now the Lamb slain before the foundation would take effect after God shows man in everyway that He is justified in The Cross and putting Christ's Seed birthed in the believer, and then the nature of Adam's father and ours before the Cross or before we believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and in that purpose we have a new nature and Father and Brother and Spirit-Holy.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Ga 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

A new creation race of people, God's people chosen in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world.

"Creature"
Strong's Greek Dictionary
2937. ktisis
Search for G2937 in KJVSL
ktisiV ktisis ktis'-is
from 2936; original formation (properly, the act; by implication, the thing, literally or figuratively):--building, creation, creature, ordinance.

See Greek 2936

In Christ: Phillip

The bible is clear that man was given a choice to obey or disobey. God wanted man to obey him and overcome the devil's temptation. This would have been the overthrow Satan from the beginning. This would have lead to man's exaltation through the eating of the tree of life to an angelic state.

God's kingdom must be rid of all disobedience and God created man in a lowly state than angel's because of his foresight of the fall. When man fell he became an altogether different kind of being under the control of Satan. He drove man from the Garden and blocked the way of the tree of Life. God in his wisdom kept eternal life in His Son whom he sent to the world at his appointed time to overthrow Satan and redeem fallen man. He gives eternal life to all who obey Him.

Dare we accuse God of being responsible for the fall, only unregenerate men would do such a thing!

That would be a really well-planned man-centered salvation.

However, here is some Scripture to give glory to God, bring some sober truth to such confusion, and destroy error.

Ephraim shall say, What have I to do any more with idols? I have heard him, and observed him: I am like a green fir tree. [b]From me is thy fruit found.[/b] (Hosea 14:8)

A new heart also will [b]I[/b] give you, and a new spirit will [b]I[/b] put within you: and [b]I[/b] will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and [b]I[/b] will give you an heart of flesh. And [b]I[/b] will put my spirit within you, and [b]cause you[/b] to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. (Ezek 36:26-27)

And [b]I[/b] will make an everlasting covenant with them, that [b]I[/b] will not turn away from them, to do them good; but [b]I will put my fear in their hearts[/b], that they shall not depart from me. (Jer 32:40)

On a side note: The Sovereign, Holy God of Heaven was not taken aback and suprised by the fall. It was accounted for and part of the turn of events that would ultimately serve to glorify God in Christ.

Since the fall, man is now slaves to sin, unable to fear God or even see the truth of the Gospel without God removing their heart of stone and giving them a heart of flesh.

For [b]God[/b], who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. (2 Corinthians 4:6)

However, part of the fall is now that man is wickedly attached to his own righteousness and goodness, which leads men to even deny the effects of the fall. The old Puritans used to speak of not only repenting of sin, but repenting of your so-called goodness. Oh that God would slay these Philistines of false doctrine and revive soul-humbling truth in the land.

Please consider the entire quote of mine you quoted...

"Since the fall, man is now slaves to sin, unable to fear God or even see the truth of the Gospel [b]without God removing their heart of stone and giving them a heart of flesh"[/b]

Not desiring to derail this thread, but wanting to address the same copy/pasted quote from Justin Martyr that has floated around here before and has been addressed at length, here is the link for a full rebuttal.

[url=http://theopenlife.blogspot.com/2008/06/rebuttal-to-man-who-seems-to-have-faith.html]Rebuttal to a man who seems to have faith in faith.[/url]

I did consider it brother, I simply disagree with you......Frank

No, you disagree with the Holy Scripture and the God who breathed them. I humbly urge you to repent.

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. (Ezek 36:26-27)

And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me. (Jer 32:40)

All of the verses you quoted I completely agree with, we are to fear God. However, man will not fear God unless God takes that dead heart of stone and gives him a heart of flesh. This is plainly declared in the Scripture.

Read the article that theopenlife posted for you. The "earliest possible sources" on this matter is the Holy Scripture, not Justin Martyr, who is not regarded as canonical or inspired.

I know this post may sound harsh, but there is too much jellyfish, no-backbone theology floating around, and people need to stand up and declare Scriptural truths such as the depravity of man, the sovereignty of God, the holiness of God, the free grace of God, and such other truths that have been falling aside.

Appolus,

I would urge you to learn about the godly Scottish men who believe these things. Perhaps look into the "Scots Worthies" or "Fair Sunshine".

Just because some have preached these doctrines in a cold, formal way does not discredit them. For they have often been preached with such warmth and fervency that it would make even the preachers we consider "radical" to look like ear-ticklers.

If it wasn't for God's grace in rising up men who believed things like the depravity of man and God's sovereignty, we could all be attending mass tomorrow and wondering how long we will spend in purgatory. All while the priest reads a Latin Bible and tells us to pray the hail Mary five times.

What is God's Grace?

Ephesians 2:4-8 But God , who is rich in mercy , for his great love wherewith he loved us , Even when we were dead in sins , hath quickened us together with Christ , (by grace ye are saved ;) And hath raised us up together , and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus : That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus . For by grace are ye saved through faith ; and that not of yourselves : it is the gift of God :

Grace:
5485. charis
Search for G5485 in KJVSL
cariV charis khar'-ece
from 5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude):--acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace(- ious), joy, liberality, pleasure, thank(-s, -worthy).

The center of Grace is, "God's Devine influence upon the Heart". Unmerited favor.

So if I may, insert the definition:

Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) ((that is: "By God's Devine influence upon the Heart,)) you are saved". ((Added))

Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come He might shew the exceeding riches of His grace ("in his Devine influence upon the heart") in His kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace (God's Devine influence on the heart) are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

What is, "faith" and where does it come from?

Faith:
Strong's Greek Dictionary
4102. pistis
Search for G4102 in KJVSL
pistiV pistis pis'-tis
from 3982; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:--assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

Strong's Greek Dictionary
3982. peitho
Search for G3982 in KJVSL
peiqw peitho pi'-tho
a primary verb; to convince (by argument, true or false); by analogy, to pacify or conciliate (by other fair means); reflexively or passively, to assent (to evidence or authority), to rely (by inward certainty):--agree, assure, believe, have confidence, be (wax) conflent, make friend, obey, persuade, trust, yield.

To sum up: The center of Faith is the, "truthfulness of God in inward certainty to agree and believe and obey".

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for , the evidence of things not seen .

Substance:
Strong's Greek Dictionary
5287. hupostasis
Search for G5287 in KJVSL
upostasiV hupostasis hoop-os'-tas-is
from a compound of 5259 and 2476; a setting under (support), i.e. (figuratively) concretely, essence, or abstractly, assurance (objectively or subjectively):--confidence, confident, person, substance.

Added, The center of substance is; Concrete assurance objectively or subjectively, confidence of the person of substance, which is God.

Which is the evidence we have in ourselves.

Read Heb 11, with in place of faith, insert the "Truthfulness of God", by the influence of God on the heart. Who's faith is it? Moses, Abraham, Noah, only by the truthfulness and the influence of God on the Heart.

They were saved "by" this influence, "The truthfulness of God", by the faith imputed, from the outward influence of God, which God counted to them as righteousness.

We are saved "through" the inward influence of Christ in us the Hope of Glory, which God has made us righteous in Him.

1 Corinthians 1:30 But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

"""IN CHRIST"""

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved (through) faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

"The Gift of God"?

Galatians 2:16-21 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

The Faith of the Son of God, "Saved by Grace Through Faith." His Devine influence on the Heart of the truthfulness of God.

This is Paul's Devine mission to impart these truths to the Saints of God in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to h\\His working, which worketh in me mightily.

In Christ: Phillip

JaySaved wrote:

Adam was created in a state of innocence. We know this because of Genesis 2:25, "And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed." In Genesis 2:16-17 we read, "And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

Genesis 2:25, "And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed."
Same as children today.

Genesis 2:16-17 we read, "And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."
Once a child knows to refuse the evil, and choose the good(Deu 1:39, Isa 7:16) and then when the child disobeys that which he knows to do or not to do, he shall die spiritualy, for he is going against his own conscience(law of his heart).

Genesis 3:6-7 says, "So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate. Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths."

The cause of Adams fall is the flesh as with the rest of us:
[b]1John 2:16[/b] [color=990000]For all that is in the world,[/color]
[b]1:[/b] [color=990000]the lust of the flesh[/color]
[b]2:[/b] [color=990000]the lust of the eyes[/color]
[b]3:[/b] [color=990000]the pride of life,
is not of the Father, but is of the world.[/color]

[b]Gen 3:6[/b] [color=990000]And when the woman saw that the tree was[/color]
[b]1:[/b] [color=990000]good for food,
and that it was[/color]
[b]2:[/b] [color=990000]pleasant to the eyes.
and a tree to be[/color]
[b]3:[/b] [color=990000]desired to make one wise
she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.[/color]

Adam died spiritually when he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Notice that their "eyes were opened and they knew they were naked". God had told them that they would die and they did die that moment. It was not a physical death but it was a spiritual death. It was at that moment that they went from a state of spiritual innocence to a state of spiritual death.

The moment Adam ate of the fruit of the tree, his nature changed and also the nature of all who would be born from him.

Back to Romans 5:12, "Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned"

We are born with more than weakness; we are born with a sinful nature.

The fact that every single person born from Adam has sinned proves that it is impossible to refrain from sin.

If it was a mere weakness, then someone would have been able to live without sin.

Jesus did not stay sinnless just because HE was God, otherwise our standard would be unjust, because we are not God.
Standards must be atainable!