Hi wta...
Over the top?
I mentioned that David Hogan claims that he raised 500 people from the dead. I simply questioned how he has done this without anyone outside of his little circle having heard it?
Have you investigated the claims that David Hogan has raised over 500 people from the dead? Have you investigated 50 of those claims? 10? Even 1? Then why is it wrong for me to question the validity of his claims?
I have attended an entire campaign of David Hogan meetings at a congregation that I formerly attended. Besides the obvious departures from Scripture at those meetings (which are a pretty good indication that something is wrong), it was the first time that I was ever "pushed down" at a meeting. After David Hogan instructed the congregation to line up on the stage and in the front of the building, he explained what happens EVERY TIME he prays for people. They fall down, feel fire, see visions, get healed, etc etc... If a person doesn't "fall down on God's operating table," Hogan explains that they are "fighting the Holy Ghost."
When the time came in which I was wrangled unto the stage with the people in my row of seats, Hogan was knocking people in the heads left and right. He kept shouting, "FIRE FIRE FIRE" at the top of his lungs (he said that he even lost his voice one night, but he blamed it on "the devil"). When he prayed for me, two of his helpers (he called them "bodyguards") were standing behind me. He shouted, pushed forcefully upon my head, while one man pushed the base of my back forward while the other pulled my shoulders back. I fell...due to the group effort of Hogan and his men. Of course, the others in the congregation just clapped that their dear brother Chris was "slain in the spirit."
What bothers me most about David Hogan, Todd Bentley, Benny Hinn, etc... is that so many believers are upset when someone questions their claims. WTA, you claimed that I made "unsubstantiated claims" about David Hogan? Really? Which "claims?"
Is the truth of the matter that these sort of men -- like David Hogan and Todd Bently -- are actually the individuals guilty of making unsubstantiated claims? Where is the proof to validate their claims of raising the dead or even healing the sick?
Let me make this clear: I believe in miracles and healings. I am even what most would call a "pentecostal" believer. I have seen and experienced things that I hesitate to ever write here less it rob God of the glory that He and He alone deserve. I just don't think we should repeat the stories of men who have not validated those stories. It is possible that even these claims might end up being less than truthful.
I have a friend whose mother suffered from a medical condition. My friend's father was a Presbyterian minister, and quite closed to anything outside the realm of his denomination. This minister's wife (my friend's mother) was quite the charismatic. She actually considered herself a "Presbycostal." She went from meeting to meeting, bookstore to bookstore and "revival" to "revival." Eventually, this led her to a Benny Hinn crusade. I remember watching (on television) the moment when she was supposedly "healed." Benny Hinn proclaimed to her through a "word from God" that her sickness was completely gone and would not return. Six months later, she died. Why? She stopped taking her medication. She took Benny Hinn's message to heart: "God's people should never be sick!" Unfortunately, this message helped to kill her. Her husband became extremely closed to any sort of non-Presbyterian ideas and her son (my friend) stopped attending Church altogether for quite some time.
Ironically, my friend's mother testified everywhere that she went that she was healed. She spoke about "feeling fire" as she was prayed for. After she died, I've often wondered if the "fire" that she felt was simply the flush of emotions while she stood on stage in front of the people putting her faith on trial. Or perhaps the "fire" that she felt was actually her overwhelming desire to please God and believe Benny Hinn (and the health/wealth doctrine) at the same time.
I also know stories about people who claimed to have experienced the supernatural who later recanted their story. I have heard many who were "slain in the spirit" who later admitted that they fell down under their own power (or were pushed). I've seen people who supposedly received gold fillings -- only to later admit that they received those gold fillings from the dentists (and not the Holy Ghost as they had claimed). I've heard stories of people who claimed to have seen visions, had dreams, or looked at demons who later admitted to having made up their stories (although they contended that they were still "honest" people).
In fact, I once knew a family who had a supernatural tale of a child being raised from the dead! Like this YouTube "28th Dead Raised Todd Bentley" video (that is the title of that video), a dentist in the Church that I attended when I was a teen shortly after coming to Christ told the testimony of his son being raised from the dead. This dentist's son had fallen into the pool and couldn't swim. The story went that he fell in the pool and sank to the bottom. While laying at the bottom, he saw three angels (two women and a man). One of the female angels told him, "Don't worry: Your mother is coming." The last thing he remembers is seeing his mom come to the top of the pool before he blacked out.
He supposedly woke up in the hospital to his family in tears. They testified in Church at how the little boy had been underwater for 20 minutes! When his mother saw him in the pool, she told another son to call 9-1-1. She jumped in and pulled him out of the water where she says that she didn't feel a pulse. She attempted to perform CPR. The paramedics arrived within two minutes (the vehicle was less than three blocks away). They immediately pulled the young boy into the ambulance and made their way to the hospital (about 3/4 mile away). As soon as the family made it to the hospital, the little boy was just waking up.
Was this little boy really "raised from the dead?"
This story used to make me feel "warm and fuzzy" after I first came to the Lord. I repeated the story to believers and unbelievers alike. It usually served to make the believers excited and the unbelievers nervous. As a teen, I used to visit the hospital quite often. I would tell that story as an example of God's limitless power to perform the miraculous. One day, I spoke to a doctor -- who happened to be the same guy who helped the young boy. After hearing the story, he seemed puzzled. He asked me the name of the family. When I told him, this doctor just smiled and said, "Well, I wouldn't say that he was 'dead.' He just wasn't breathing for a while." He then explained that he was the emergency room doctor on the scene that day. The doctor explained that he was also a Christian, but that I should be careful when spreading something that might be less than honest.
Why would this family claim a "miracle" that wasn't entirely true?
A few years later, the dentist and his wife separated. The dentist, who was an elder at the Church, was caught cheating on his wife. They tried to work things out, but it was getting worse. Not only was the dentist cheating, but he was dabbling with Christian Science (Scientology). The family suffered tremendously and the parents finally divorced. A couple of years later, the young boy who was "raised from the dead" was arrested (twice) for stealing cars. After serving time at a "boot camp" for underage offenders, he eventually began attending a gym where I used to go and play tennis.
One day, I asked him about his "raised from the dead" story. He admitted that much of the story was embellished. While he assured me that he indeed fell into a swimming pool, he told me that he made up the part about the angels. He also said that he didn’t know if he was underwater for one minute or five minutes. He thinks that the “twenty minutes under water” thing really came from the fact that his mom admitted to not having seen him for twenty minutes. But he said that he was playing with his toys in the back yard beside the pool. He only fell into the pool when one of his toys accidently fell in and he tried to reach for it.
This young man said that he felt guilty for exaggerating the story about how long he had been in the water and his supposed “vision” of three angels. When I asked him why he made it up, he said, “Well, I guess that it was what everyone wanted to hear.” Since he was no longer attending Church, praying or reading his Bible, this young man explained that he should probably come clean about it all. He also admitted that he has never really been “slain in the spirit” even though he fell down nearly every time a minister prayed for him between the ages of 5 and 15. After confessing his deceptions, he had thought about the significance of it all. But then he said, “I guess it doesn’t really matter anymore, does it?” I assured him that Jesus was still available for him, and that God could do far more than anything that he or his family could ever exaggerate. He left asking me to pray for him (and he moved with his mom after a short time).
Why am I saying all of this? Please do not mistake my words for biased cynicism. If I am biased, it is only because I desire to see the Lord lifted up in truth. I am exceedingly fed up with “men of God” who make wild, exciting and bold claims about the supernatural occurrences that follow them – but offer little in terms of proof. The only thing worse than unsubstantiated claims is the fact that some people look at any sort of questioning of those claims as a personal attack on the man.
Please understand: I am not attacking David Hogan, Todd Bentley or Benny Hinn. Rather, I am examining their claims. I am calling upon them to show some concrete proof that would substantiate that their claims are more than just pompous claims meant to validate their status as “men of God.” David Hogan, during his meetings, always rejected any sort of doubt about his status as an “apostle of God” and warned that such doubt is evil. Instead, David Hogan strutted upon the stage in his cowboy boots, cowboy hat, uttering the occasional profanity while warning people from questioning his status as “the man of God.” Every meeting that I attended with Mr. Hogan, I couldn’t stop thinking about the Scripture, “[i]God opposes the proud…[/i]” (James 4:6) and “[i]Test everything…[/i]” (I Thessalonians 5:21). It doesn’t seem like these are encouraged at any of these sort of meetings.
I have traveled throughout Mexico numerous times to assist in building and evangelism programs with well established missionaries and pastors. When I have brought up David Hogan, the response has always been one of two things: A.) I’ve never heard of him. –or— B.) He is a liar. Does this mean that David Hogan is a phony? No. But it doesn’t mean that he is NOT a phony either. It just means that there are ministers in Mexico who have never heard of the guy…and there are well-established, humble pastors and missionaries who think that Mr. Hogan is a phony. While I believe that it is imperative that I do not simply believe his claims just because he makes those claims – my biggest issues with David Hogan dealt mainly with the things that he preached. Yet I found it ironic that every single “message” that he preached to our congregation contained many more tales of the supernatural than they did Scripture or even doctrine. From his story of talking with a big owl, to being chased by Satan (who opened and closed the Church gate like a nice gentleman), I felt that David Hogan was a typical prosperity/authoritarian preacher who accentuated the little that he preached with wild, unsubstantiated tales of the supernatural (which consisted of around 80-95% of his nightly messages).
Is it wrong to realize that “all men are liars?” Is it wrong to not accept stories that are unsubstantiated? Is this the extent of my “over the top claims” made about David Hogan? Please read my initial comment one more time:
For some odd reason, I am under the impression that such a thing would make FRONT PAGE NEWS on our major newspapers! In Mexico (where David Hogan supposedly performs his "miracles"), the media covers any story of the supernatural. If a spot on a tortilla even remotely resembles the image of a man or woman -- the newspapers, radio stations and television stations cover it for weeks! Yet we can't find a single documented case of the dead being raised in any of the Mexican newspapers. Hmmm.
The same is true with other claims of the dead being raised. Benny Hinn has never documented one of these cases. In fact, I don't know if any of his supposed "healings" have ever been substantiated by medical support.
What about all of the claims of healing, slayings in the spirit, etc...? Don't they mean something?
I have seen individuals who claimed to have received "gold fillings" during certain revival meetings -- only to later confess that they were lying. Oh yes...they did have gold fillings. But these were placed there by dentists and not the Holy Spirit.
We really need to follow the instructions of I Thessalonians 5:21 and TEST EVERYTHING in such matters. I certainly believe in miracles. And I do believe that the devil can (and will) counterfeit miracles. But I find much of what is claimed to be "miraculous" by Charismatic circles to be a tad bit suspicious (to say the least). We need to compare those claims by the purity found in the Word of God. But if a supposed "miracle" places the focus upon a man, a ministry, a church, or even a "revival" rather than complete and total emphasis (along with the fear of the Lord) upon our Lord -- then something is undoubtedly wrong.
WTA, I don’t mean anything personal by this. And I certainly don't mean this as a personal attack on David Hogan. Rather, I have very real issues with the doctrine that he preaches and the unsubstantiated claims that he makes. However, you brought up a thread that questions the validity of some supposed “dead raising” in Lakeland. You’re right in that I couldn’t fully watch the entire video. My wife and I currently live out in the country and can only access dial-up. I tried to view the entire video, but it timed out after just a short time. But I saw enough to feel uncomfortable in my inner man concerning those claims.
Longing to know Him and see His face,
-Chris
