Test Me in This!

Malachi 3:8-12
8 "Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me.
"But you ask, 'How do we rob you?'
"In tithes and offerings. 9 You are under a curse—the whole nation of you—because you are robbing me. 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it. 11 I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not cast their fruit," says the LORD Almighty. 12 "Then all the nations will call you blessed, for yours will be a delightful land," says the LORD Almighty.

(A tithe in the old testament is 1/10th or 10% of your first fruits or of your paycheck.)

This is the only passage of scripture where God says, "test Me". Everywhere else in the Word God says, do not test the Lord your God. This passage says that if we tithe God will pour out blessings on us, more than we can contain.

But doesn't this fall in line with what the faith teachers claim. That if you sow your money, that you will reap 1000+ fold?

Why are we as Christians sometimes so against being blessed by God, whether finances or otherwise?

Why do we pass over this passage wherein God instructs us to test Him. Is it because of our misconception that all Christians should be poor and hard off as Paul was, or is it because we don't want to bring forth our tithe because of our own greed and selfishness. (For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. Matthew 6:21). Maybe some of our hearts aren't fully for God...

DelightedInU wrote:
Malachi 3:8-12
8 "Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me.
"But you ask, 'How do we rob you?'
"In tithes and offerings. 9 You are under a curse—the whole nation of you—because you are robbing me. 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it. 11 I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not cast their fruit," says the LORD Almighty. 12 "Then all the nations will call you blessed, for yours will be a delightful land," says the LORD Almighty.

(A tithe in the old testament is 1/10th or 10% of your first fruits or of your paycheck.)

This is the only passage of scripture where God says, "test Me". Everywhere else in the Word God says, do not test the Lord your God. This passage says that if we tithe God will pour out blessings on us, more than we can contain.

But doesn't this fall in line with what the faith teachers claim. That if you sow your money, that you will reap 1000+ fold?

Why are we as Christians sometimes so against being blessed by God, whether finances or otherwise?

Why do we pass over this passage wherein God instructs us to test Him. Is it because of our misconception that all Christians should be poor and hard off as Paul was, or is it because we don't want to bring forth our tithe because of our own greed and selfishness. (For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. Matthew 6:21). Maybe some of our hearts aren't fully for God...

God preferes obedience over sacrifice(1Sam 15:22)
He would rather you repent from sin that to tithe.

It is true He would rather repentance and obedience over tithing. But tithing is a command that requires obedience. What if your heart is right before God? Should you then still not tithe because it is not His preference? God is not saying to choose one or the other. He was talking about the Pharasees in this passage and how they were dead man's bones inside but religious on the outside. If you are a Christian seeking after God, you SHOULD tithe....

DelightedInU wrote:

Why are we as Christians sometimes so against being blessed by God, whether finances or otherwise?

Tithing is not in the NT. 10% is not in the NT. Giving to the needy is. Laying it all at the feet of the diciples is. Taking care of the elders is.

In fact, tithing in the OT was actually around 23% to be accurate.

Is there not one person on this website who actually tithes?

This is absurd and we wonder why our world is in the state of desolation, physical and spiritual, that it is in today.

It's devastating to me that the few who do tithe must carry the burden alone of supporting the church body, missions work, and much more, not to mention caring for the widows and orphans, locally and such as in Africa. That's where your tithe money goes! To do God's work! It doesn't always go into the pastors pockets, although a worker is deserving of his wage and a pastor deserves every single cent he earns.

I feel sick...

DelightedInU wrote:

Is there not one person on this website who actually tithes?

I feel sick...

Brother, maybe I misunderstood your post titled "Test me in This". If so, I appologize.

If you asking about who tithes, that is between them and the Lord. If you are asking if I tithe, that is between me, my wife and the Lord.

The Pharasiee liked to know such things as this, along with liking others to know that they were fasting.

Lets not be like them. :-)

I was not talking a poll of who tithes. If you read my first post, that was not my intent. It was to discuss and bring light to the subject, but after coming upon such extreme opposition to the whole idea of tithing, I am shocked for one, and distressed and saddened.

I've heard a statistic that only 20% of people regularly tithe. This shouldn't be. Imagine what we could accomplish for God if everyone contributed their part!

DelightedInU wrote:

but after coming upon such extreme opposition to the whole idea of tithing, I am shocked for one, and distressed and saddened.

Wow. I truly am confused. Are you talking about this post, the forums, or Christianity in general? I cannot speak for anything else besides this post... I have not seen extreme opposition in this post. In fact, I haven't seen ANY opposition to it... but I am from Wisconsin though. :-)

Imagine what we could accomplish for God if everyone contributed their part!

[u][b]Luke 18:18-23 (NKJV)[/b][/u]

Now a certain ruler asked Him, saying, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’”
And he said, “All these things I have kept from my youth.”
So when Jesus heard these things, He said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
But when he heard this, he became very sorrowful, for he was very rich.

Are you truly ready to do this? This is what Jesus asked of you in regards to giving. Do you submit to the will of Jesus?

[u][b]Acts 4:32:36 (NKJV)[/b][/u]

Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common. And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all. Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, and laid them at the apostles’ feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need.

Yes, just imagine...

Where is the cheerfulness of giving? Why would God even ask us to give? He does say, not to give grudgingly, or of necessity. What makes God love us in giving?

2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Giving is supposed to make us cheerful and happy.

God truly knows the desires of our Heart even if we cannot see it, because our new born again Heart is Christ. How did He give?

In Christ: Phillip

Reply

Thank God I'm a Child of the King. I am an heir and as such I don't have to pay tribute.

Eddie

[b]Gal.3:10[/b] [color=990000]for as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.
[b]:11[/b] But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, the just shall live by faith.
[b]:12[/b] and the law is not of faith: but, the man that does them shall live in them.[/color]

If you get into that one must need to tithe, you’re getting into big trouble.

I think that [b]Christinyou[/b] has the spirit of the law nailed on this one(Imagine that[b],[/b] I agree with him :-?)

[b]1Tim 1:5[/b] [color=990000]Now the end of the commandment is love out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned[/color]

Tithing 10% is of the law but what Christinyou said is the spirit of the law, and that is what we must abide by.

Furthermore, the New Testament is mush more strict when it comes to "how much", for now we must give 100%

The difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law is that the letter relates to the outward action; the spirit relates to the motive or intention of the heart and from which the act should proceed.

The spirit of the law requires impartial goodwill or orbenevolence, and [u]is all expressed in one word[/u]--[b]love[/b].
The letter of the law requires strict adherence to every precept, [u]it is all expressed in one word[/u]--[b]obey[/b].

An example, the letter of the law says, "Do not commit murder!"
Or in this case, "give 10%.
However, the spirit of the law says, "anyone who is angry with his brother without cause shall be liable to Judgment." (Matthew 5:21-22)
Or, "for whatever is not of faith is sin(Rom 14:23) & what [b]Christinyou[/b] quoted, [b]2 Corinthians 9:7[/b].
The spirit requires that certain conditions to be examined in their proper place.

The letter of the law is unyielding and sentences guilty all violators of its precepts, without regard to purpose. Just as the speed limit is 55 mph and one exceeds the limit, the law says, "[b]guilty[/b].
The spirit of the law sees the purpose of the excess speed for an emergency and says, "[b]keep speeding until purpose is met[/b]".

Furthermore, when speeding for the purpose of an emergency, the spirit of the law is not broken, but fulfilled.

Therefore, do not be concerned about Tithing a mere 10% anymore, but be concerned about ones heart toward the Lord, for if it is pure and sincerely toward the Lord, that person will do what the spirit of the law is doing already.

Hey Steve, why don't you let us know how you really feel?

:)

Good post, brother, even if ascerbic. Alot of what you mention upsets me also. The doctrine of compulsory tithing for NT believers is taught by using the famous scriptures in Malachi - the curse of God placed on a non-tither and the blessings of God placed on a tither. It is the Old Covenant wrapped in the fancy paper of the New Covenant. As with any gift, the paper is usually discarded and the gift itself kept.

The teaching that a "curse" of God will be placed on New Covenant believer (whether it be God letting Satan destroy someone's finances, or car, or house) because he or she fails to pay 10% to their church - this is Old Covenant Christianity, and prompts a person to function out of fear of having his things - his very life - being destroyed by God by something he does or doesn't do. This results from an improper understanding of the New Covenant of grace.

This is as much not the New Covenant of grace as circumcision in the physical is, for both the tithe and circumcision predate the law. The latter in the physical, no one will argue, will not avail us in Christ (see Phil. 4:4 for the New Covenant version of flesh circumcision); why then does the former remain viable and mandated the physical - with all the OT blessings and cursings attached to it?

Reply to all

The verses that aswered my questions are

Matthew
25. He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
26. Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

Eddie

So to most of you the Old Testament is primarily just a history lesson ? There are no principles that should be applied from the Old Testament because now we are under the New Covenant?

I understand that there is freedom from the law and I thank God for that but when God in the entirety of His Holy Inerrant Word promises a blessing I want to take hold of it. Not just with tithing but every blessing and promise of God, I want.

Do not stumble here. Are you under law? Do you use grace for lawlessness or for growth in holiness?

FIRST things FIRST

[u]2 Cor 8:5[/u] And this they did, not as we hoped, but [b]first gave their own selves to the Lord[/b], and unto us by the will of God. But [u]first gave their own selves to the Lord[/u]: Do you find weightier things here? obedience and repentance? See the other principles in chapter 8 and 9. What Joy, to hear and give, specifically, by the will of God in all things.

Are you or are you not a steward? What do you have (90%, 77%) that you did not receive? All these questions and concerns disappear in the light of truth. No matter where the question comes from about tribute, tithe, or custom, lay hold of the Word of God. [b]What image is stamped on you[/b]? (Math. 22: 15-22, etc.)

Does anyone else see how what believers say about giving remains entangled in “works”, the work of man?

How can so many be so clear about salvation (not a work of man) and so clouded about giving? What a stronghold.

Heb 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
Heb 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Heb 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Heb 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
Heb 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
Heb 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
Heb 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
Heb 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
Heb 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
Heb 7:10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Heb 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Heb 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
Heb 7:20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
Heb 7:21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)
Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
Heb 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
Heb 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
Heb 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
Heb 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
Heb 7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

Here we have Hebrews chapter 7 which explains in detail that tithing did not begin with the Law. Tithing began with Abraham, before the Law was given, by Him who had the promise.

Tithes were given to Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
Heb 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
Heb 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

I am beginning to wonder if some who are so adamant about not having a free will is so they want be responsible. The moment a commandment is given that they can claim was in the old testament or in the law, all of a sudden they are free and don’t have to do it. I thank God we have been made free from the ceremonial laws and ordinances because Christ was sacrificed for us. We have the law of Love and the law of the spirit that frees us to do his commandments by Love.

God instituted tithing in the Law but it was not of the law to begin with, it started with Abraham who had been given the promise and the bible says we are suppose to have the same faith as Abraham.

I do not agree with the wof seed (greed) faith because the seed is the word and not money.

I just don’t see how anyone can claim to love God and be blessed by Him, can under grace, give God less than a tithe or even not want to make sure they are regularly giving at least a tithe to support the work of Him who is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

I believe if you search the scriptures that in the new covenant of grace God enables us to do more spiritually than was required under the Law.

We are not under the bondage of the Law, we have been made free, but how can we say we love Him if we don’t keep His commandments. It is the Love of God in us that causes us to keep His commandments by His Spirit.

We read in the new testament that they gave more than the tithe and some even gave all. How can we say that giving only 10% is a burden and puts you in bondage, only if you like to have control over that 10% also, in which God said was his, and we were suppose to bring it to the store house (finances for His Work) so that there would be meat to supply His work. We are not our own we have been bought with a price.

I also heard B.H Clendennon say one time that a church growth man told him that only 20% of Christians paid tithes. In which he replied by saying, all Christians pay tithes, because if a man does not love God enough to put Him first in His giving (wherein he has the means to do so) by at least the tithe, He doesn’t even know God.

Jesus spoke a lot about laying up treasures in heaven and where your treasure is so will your heart be also. Jesus spoke a lot about giving and gave himself for us. The one’s who have been given so much are the one’s who should be willing to give to the cause of Christ on this earth.

If I ever feel like tithing to the work of Christ is a burden, then I want to examine my heart and my priorities to the one who laid down His life for me. He has promised us, that He will supply all of our needs according to His riches in glory.

DelightedInU wrote:
So to most of you the Old Testament is primarily just a history lesson?

The New Testment Apostles have taught us from the Old Testement.
However, the Old Coventent has passed away to let the new Covenent in.

[b]Heb 8:7[/b] [color=990000]For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.[/color]
[b]Heb 8:13[/b] [color=990000]In that he says, A new covenant, he has made the first old. Now that which decays and grows old is ready to vanish away.[color]
[b]Heb 10:9[/b] [color=990000]Then said he, Lo, I come to do your will, O God. He takes away the first, that he may establish the second.[/color]

There are no principles that should be applied from the Old Testament because now we are under the New Covenant?

Tithing had a purpose for the time of the priesthood, however, there is made of necessity a change also in the law( in connection with the priesthood [b]Heb 7:12[/b])

Some pastors assume that this change of the law involved the direction in which the tithe was to be paid. They say that the tithe is not to go to the tribe of Levi any longer but to Christian ministers.
Our priest is now Christ Jesus in his role as the one mediator [the one priest] who is now in heaven at the right hand of the Father.

I understand that there is freedom from the law and I thank God for that but when God in the entirety of His Holy Inerrant Word promises a blessing I want to take hold of it.

The principle may be, but not of the tithe.

Not just with tithing but every blessing and promise of God, I want.