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What must one do to remain saved?

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tjservant Jul 24, 2008

What must one do to remain saved?

This is not an attempt to start a debate or spread discord. I ask this in view of my recent study into the doctrines of grace, particularly perseverance of the saints. I have prayed and studied the scriptures for myself on this issue. What I am looking for is insights from others that may help.

What I am interested in is the “maintenance requirements” of salvation.

I once heard a gentleman say, “Salvation is free, it will cost you nothing. Following Jesus will cost you something.”

I believe this to be true. As a matter of fact I believe following Jesus can potentially cost you everything or at least a genuine willingness to sacrifice all if asked.

But as far as salvation…does obedience maintain it? I mean would you disown your child for being disobedient? Please do not talk about blatant unrepentant sin…that is not what I am talking about. I’m talking about not being perfect. If you believe in sinless perfection this thread is not for you.

Was the price for salvation paid in full upon the cross or is there something we must add? I hear a lot of things that start to sound like “works” when people talk about this issue.

Is there something we must do in order to keep our salvation?

If so, what is it and how can it be interpreted as to not be a work that one could boast by doing?

T
TaylorOtwell Jul 24, 2008

Perhaps meditating upon what Jesus meant when He said "It is finished" would be helpful for you.

The Lord is the Good Shepherd, He keeps all His sheep and does not let any of them perish.

T
TimmyJoe Jul 24, 2008

To answer your question about what one must do to remain saved, that one must continue in relationship with God. The only way someone can be in relationship with God is by grace through faith in who Christ is (the son of God) and what He has done (finished work at calvary). Christ must be Lord to have a relationship with Him. He is noone's homeboy. He's Lord of your life or nothing. Relationship with your Lord takes obedience. A man cannot produce fruit outside of Christ, and God said in Amos, "Can two walk together, except they be agreed?" The obvious answer is no. If a tree bringeth not forth good fruit it is hewn down and cast into the fire. A man must walk with Christ to produce fruit. God will chasten those who He loves and is in relationship with, He is merciful and longsuffering with those stubborn trees, but the road is narrow and only he who does the will of the father will enter into heaven. No man can continue in sin and relationship with a Holy God. Relationships take communication and God will not hear me if I hide iniquity in my heart.


Hope this helps a little bit.
-Timmy Joe

D
DelightedInU Jul 24, 2008

ok..... I bite.

I agree with TimmyJoe pretty much completely. but I would add that Jesus said there are now two commandments in the New Testament. Love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind strength and love your neighbor as yourself. If you are striving to do these things you not only become more like Christ but can pretty much rest in your salvation. You are saved by faith but faith without works is dead. And the works of Christ was love. If you love God you will want to know Him more and more. If you love God, you will obey Him. If you love God, you will love your brother. If you love your brother, you will not do anything to cause him to stumble. We are not perfect but we should we strive/run to do these two two things.

L
Logic Jul 25, 2008

tjservant wrote:
What must one do to remain saved?
Is there something we must do in order to keep our salvation?
Abide in Christe, all other things will come from that.

What I am interested in is the “maintenance requirements” of salvation.
You mean how to stay abiding in Christ?

Keep a repentant heart, walk after the spirit that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in you(Rom 8:4) so that you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh(Gal 5:16)

Stay hungering for rightousness that you may be filled.

But as far as salvation… does obedience maintain it?
disobedience = sin.
does disobedience destroy it?

Obediance is much broader that one realizes.

I mean would you disown your child for being disobedient?
No, but disobediance to commands is not the only part of a relationship.
Furthermore, eternal life is more than a father-son relationship.
It is also like a marriage, master-slave...ect...

There is communication, continuous learning of the other person in the relationship.

What if your child gets offended at you and disowns you and will never have anything to do with you, especially will not take his inheritance. If you attempt to give it, he will spit in your face.

Though you may be the childs perent, your child will not let you act as the perent.

What if your spouse starts to distance him/her self from you?

What the child/spouse must do to do to in order to keep the relationship alive is to choose to listen to you, trust you, love you, respect, obey, forgive you...ect...
He must "abide" in the relationship.

What must one do to keep a relationship alive?

Was the price for salvation paid in full upon the cross or is there something we must add?
Your acknowledgment of the truth of the matter, your sin and your guilt; your acknowlesgment of your countinual need for Christ.

What do you add to your marriage?

I hear a lot of things that start to sound like “works” when people talk about this issue.
Nothing wrong with works, they prove that you have eternal life.
They come from abiding in Christ.
However, works are not what keeps you abiding in Christ.

If so, what is it and how can it be interpreted as to not be a work that one could boast by doing?
Any "work that one could boast by doing" would be doing somethig as to earn salvation.
However, salvation is a relationship with the Father through Chrst.
Relationships are a two way concept.
Anything to maintain [b]your[/b] part in the relaitionship is not anything to boast about, for they are most humbling.

No one would boast about:
The continual need for Christ
The acknowledgment of ones continual failures
The lack of rightousness on ones part
The fact that tone can do nothing worth any value apart from Christ...ect...

sermonindex Jul 25, 2008

On his death bed, J. Gresham Machen, a man used of God to defend the simplicity of the Gospel said,

"So thankful for the active obedience of Christ. No hope without it."

And isn't it amazing that Paul, at the end of his life and ministry, after all he had done; after all he had suffered, still appealed to the righteousness of another...

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

------------------

Without a doubt, to grow and mature in our Christian life we must read the bible, we must seek God in prayer and worship, we must meet with other believers, we must trust God through trial, but by no means are we kept by these things.

We are kept by the power of God...(1Peter 1:5)

The same Gospel that justifies us keeps us. According to the Apostle Paul we have been given a gift of Righteousness (the perfect obedience of Christ) and His Righteousness has been imputed to us. His perfect obedience to the law (Love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind strength and love your neighbor as yourself) has been put to our account and we have been reconciled to God and declared Righteous.

The law requires perfect obedience. He fullfilled the law. He was the only man that did and could, and His righteousness is the only righteousness that is accepted before the Father.

That's why Paul said at the end of his life and ministry....

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith

So, TJ, though I am sure you have read a lot about this, and I don't think I am telling you something you do not know....I will answer your question.

What does one do to remain saved?

Continue to trust in the righteousness of Jesus Christ!

R
rbanks Jul 25, 2008


We are saved by grace through faith and it is the gift of God because we didn’t earn it, we just trusted Jesus and his finished work at Calvary. We are saved by His grace because we believed in Him, we now become his workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works that God had before ordained that we should walk therein.

Here are just a few scriptures that tell us that we are kept saved by the power of God through faith. We are to give all diligence to make our calling and election sure so that in doing these things we shall never fall.

1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Jude 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

Php 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

We are to build up ourselves on our most holy faith praying in the Holy Spirit. We are to be confident that the good work God has done in us, that he will complete it until the day of Christ. We are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling as God is working in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

We must understand we are kept by the power of God through faith. We can’t keep ourselves God does through our sincere faith in Him to be obedient in walking out our salvation to the pleasure of God. We are not our own anymore we have been bought with a price. He is to be Lord of our Life.

God never created us to be robots or a puppet on a string but to have a loving and obedient relationship with Him. If we walk with Him in faith and obedience He will give us all the power we need to complete our salvation to the glory of God.

I pray the Lord will save us from the theology that says we don’t do anything because God does everything.

Lord save us from the theology that says we must do something to save our selves, because it is not what we do that saves us, but what he has done in us.

Salvation is of the Lord only and not of ourselves. We get no credit for salvation because it is only made possible because of what God has done. The thing we must understand is that he has made it available by His grace but made it receivable through faith. God has given to every man a measure of faith to believe. God wants our spirit to be alive again to him. God wants us to be free and in a loving obedient relationship with Him.

Man does have a part in his salvation, but it is all of God, and was given to Him by God as the means that God has given to him by faith, because by works can no one be saved.

No one can boast in his faith because faith is not the work of man. The only thing true faith in God will do is cause you to boast in the Lord, because true faith in God is a humbling experience. It takes humility to trust in the Lord to do what you can’t do yourself. God makes himself known to us by trusting in Him. God gives grace to the humble not the proud. We must humble ourselves and totally trust in Christ by continually believing in Him to receive all He has for us.

I hope we understand that it is all of God, and that God has given us the part in surrendering to His plan of salvation by grace through faith continually, until we are with Him in His likeness.

sermonindex Jul 25, 2008

And yet we downplay what Pentecost and the need for it, has to do in any of this we are purposed to be IN and OF Christ. (Gal.2:20)

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whyme Jul 25, 2008

Many preachers have spoken in agreement that salvation isn't just a one time event. I've been saved, I'm being saved, I will be saved. The real question is what must I do to continue in God's grace? The answer theologically is "nothing" ; otherwise it wouldn't be grace. TJServant's real question should also be, what are the "means" of grace. The Scriptures are full of them.

sermonindex Jul 25, 2008

The real question is what must I do to continue in God's grace? The answer theologically is "nothing" ; otherwise it wouldn't be grace. TJServant's real question should also be, what are the "means" of grace. The Scriptures are full of them.

Very well put. So simple...Thank you.

sermonindex Jul 25, 2008

I testify this from the heart:

Jesus will never let you go.

God forbid, you may walk away from Him, or you may forget your "first love", or you may become downright backslidden, but in your soul's ear, you will not be able to drown out that small still Voice of Christ.

Faith is a journey, and sometimes, a hard one at that.

T
tjservant Jul 26, 2008

Thank you all for taking the time to respond.

Now for a little background as to why I brought up the questions.

I attended a holiness church until I stopped going at the age of fifteen or so. Folks were saved one month, lost the next and saved again the month after that. I also recall a couple of people receiving their “second blessing” more than once. I never understood what had taken place until fifteen years later when I began to study the doctrine of holiness after I was saved.

People saved then lost...lost then saved; others professing sinless perfection while divorcing and destroying marriages. “Mistakes will happen”, they would say. People were “backsliding” often; I now wonder how many ever slide forward to begin with.

I sometimes hear folks talk about their salvation and they use the word “I” a lot more than they use the word “Him”. This scares me. It sometimes seems like the folks that see themselves as having played a part in their salvation, also see themselves as playing a part in keeping it. Where as the folks that claim no part in their salvation see themselves as having no part in keeping it. This is definitely not always the case but I certainly do encounter it.

At the Church I spoke of earlier you were told to make a decision to accept Jesus and it appeared that it was your decision to remain saved as well. It was all about you and very little about Him. Ones salvation seemed totally dependant upon themselves.

Today, I hear people say things that sound as if they believe they are just as responsible for staying saved as Jesus is for keeping them saved. This is why I posted the questions to begin with; to hear what other people have to say about the issue of “staying saved”.

L
LoveHim Jul 26, 2008

What must one do to remain saved?
Colossians 2:6 "As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him"

that scripture has kept things very simple for me. How did i receive Him? when He opened my eyes and showed me my great sin and who i really am.. a great sinner. then i believed.

how do i walk in Him? by His grace. i need to remind myself that it is all by His grace and His Spirit that i can do anything good and pleasing for Him and to Him.

i believe scripture is very clear on 2 things
1) God's sovereignty
2) man's responsibility

to put the emphasis on one over the other is to lose the beautiful balance that the scriptures seem to scream about from cover to cover.

hope it helps some brother,
phil

C
CJaKfOrEsT Jul 26, 2008


tjservant wrote:

I sometimes hear folks talk about their salvation and they use the word “I” a lot more than they use the word “Him”. This scares me. It sometimes seems like the folks that see themselves as having played a part in their salvation, also see themselves as playing a part in keeping it. Where as the folks that claim no part in their salvation see themselves as having no part in keeping it. This is definitely not always the case but I certainly do encounter it.

The key seems to be knowing God's part, and our part, and then allowing God to do His part, while not neglecting our part. It would seem that our part is one of depending on Him, period. The matter would be one of [b]avoiding[/b] taking up our right to strive to be holy, to be the judge of our own conduct, and executor of our own punishment, for these are the task of God alone.

To live like this would be to risk total failure, if God were not in control. We exhibit this by [b]acknowledging our sins[/b] as being ours, by [b]prayer[/b] and by [b]receiving forgiveness[/b]. Although these seem like we are [b]doing[/b] something, in the final analysis, the opposite is actually the case.

We "confess (acknowledge) our sins" knowing that "[b]He[/b] is faithful and just to forgive...and cleans...". The focus is His response, to our admission of failure. We "ask, seek and knock", as an expression of our comprehension of [b]His[/b] activity. Fact is, He often "answers our prayer", even when we haven't prayed, so it obviously isn't the actual "prayer" that moves God.

The last is a little more tricky to grasp, because it touches on a little Psychology (bear with me a moment:-)). Last night I met a men, who was a professing believer, and yet was drunk. He was feeling incredible shame over this, because he had intended to witness to his friend that night. He was by no means a "rolling drunk", but had simply had two drinks too many, due to not paying attention. His sin, if any, was one of "cautiouslessness" or an absence of "self-control".

By His grace, the Lord provided him with three Christians, who were wandering the city, look for "the one" that He would have them witness to...that being us. I noticed that this man seemed to have a barrage of explanations about his activity, with each statement beginning with, "I don't know why I do this, but..." After a little while, I said to his, "You know why you do it. You do it because you want to, and that's the problem."

He then went on to say, "You might be looking at me now, drunk, and think so and so about me...", to which I responded, "No. That's between you and God. All I see, is someone who is conscious of his sin, and yet is hiding behind excuses, rather than trusting God to cleanse him." He then began to say a lot of "How can I continue in sin, when Christ died for me.." kind of stuff, to which I responded, "Christ died for the sin you committed tonight, to for someone who hadn't sinned. The problem is, having confessed your sin, you are denying His forgiveness by all your self-abasement. He has cast your sin as far as from the "east is from the west", who are you to see it any differently. That is your sin."

After all, what is the difference between being forgiven of a sin committed five minutes ago, and the sin committed five years ago? Nothing whatsoever. Either we are forgiven or we are not. It does not come in increments.

To endure the shame of needing to be forgiven, produces the kind of brokeness that God requires in us to deliver us from sin. Our self-exertion counteracts this process. Our Saviour, when faced by jeers to come down from the cross, having been "made sin" to be there, endured it, until the death. Likewise we are to "take up our cross", and to "abide in the vine" before we can produce fruit. A branch does nothing but remain stationary to abide. Consider this in light of the exhortations in Scripture, like "Be still and know that I am God".

Fear produced out of the shame of holding onto a sense of guilt, which has been removed by the blood of Jesus, is the ultimate enemy of faith, because it is betrays of a belief that God is not as faithful as 1 John 1:9 clearly states. This may not seem serious, but Scripture defines sin as that which is not faith.

This is not to be mistaken with the kind "pop psychology" that aims to convince the sinner that they have done no wrong, but trusting that God has done His part, in response to us doing our part, living out our Christian walk spontaneously, out of a clear conscience. Ultimately, abiding in Christ is the only way that one can be assured of "remaining saved". To paraphrase Norman Grubb, Christianity is not about about consecration and maintenance, it's about [b]being[/b] consecrated and [b]being[/b] maintained.

L
logan_trky Jul 29, 2008

There is one thing God requires: Faith. If you believe, you are saved. However, if you cease to believe, you cease to be saved.

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learn Jul 30, 2008

My own understanding

To be saved in the first place (ie converted), we needed to have faith and repent.


Once converted, as long as we do not lose faith (example believe that we have sinned so greatly after being save, that God would not forgive us) and/or reject the faith (ie reject God), we are still save. However, if we do not repent before dying (while still having the faith), then we will lose our salvation at death.

That will then explain why people can backslide badly for years and still come back to him
--(those that believe that salvation cannot be lost will say this person was not saved in the beginning)
--(while those that believe salvation can be lost, will point to this person as proof)

And that's why getting saved, can be so 'simple' ie have faith and repent

Also, that's why there's no works involved in ensuring salvation continue because as long as we have faith and repent, the Holy Spirit in us will continue molding us to be more Christlike. When we still have faith but do not repent, the Holy Spirit is still in us asking us to repent but we are too stubborn to listen to Him and thus backslide and produce no fruit at this stage
(and that's why God gets all the glory because the Holy Spirit is doing all the work in molding us.)

C
CJaKfOrEsT Jul 30, 2008

logan_trky wrote:

There is one thing God requires: Faith. If you believe, you are saved. However, if you cease to believe, you cease to be saved.

The question must be asked, "What is faith?" or "What is it to believe?" For many faith is such an ethereal thing, that we say we have but cannot define, in a practical sense. Scripture seems to exaggerate this mystical quality, by avoiding and outright definition, choosing rather to use comparisons and adjectives.

The question asked is a very real question, and we have done well to avoid any "Calvinist/Arminian" disputes, however the issue of "Perseverance of the Saints" has been all but ignored. It's almost as if we have resigned ourselves to a mentality that says, "God can protect us from everything but ourselves."

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Calvinist, per se, but to resort to an answer that either fails to adequately define terms, and/or amplifies our potency and diminishes God's, is to distill Salvation down to a mere patch up, rather that the power of God exhibited through the Cross.

Perhaps this question need not be asked, if a sound conversion has taken place, the transforms us into a New Creation, that is as different, as night from day, from the Old. Perhaps this question would have answered itself, had we truly received the witness of the Spirit.

C
CJaKfOrEsT Jul 30, 2008


CJaKfOrEsT wrote:

Perhaps this question need not be asked, if a sound conversion has taken place, the transforms us into a New Creation, that is as different, as night from day, from the Old. Perhaps this question would have answered itself, had we truly received the witness of the Spirit.

Having said all that, it is far from uncommon to forget these things and need reminding, now and then... :-)

L
learn Jul 30, 2008

'Faith' in my case (yes I know I'm not the one being quoted here) is that Jesus died for our sins so that we can go to Heaven.

In a way, 'faith' in this case can be viewed as legalistic. Just like Mr A knows (have faith) that if he can get on the boat, he will be able to sail from America to UK. However, he may not want to pay for the ticket despite Jesus giving enough $ for the ticket--after all Mr A may be greedy and wants to use the $ for other things. That's why 'repentance' is required before we can be save. 'Repentance' then in the case of Mr A is wanting, knowing and willingly paying for the ticket because he genuinely wants to ie his heart is in the right place.

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