Tongues

know if anyone has had a post already on tongues.

I was wondering what everyones thoughts were about wether or not tongues still happen today or not.

I for one do not believe the Lord still uses the gift today. I will explain my view latter in this thread. Right now I was just wondering who thought what on the topic.

Yes. It is for today. It is said that the promise of the baptism of the Holy Spirit is to your children, and your children's children in Acts 2:39.

Acts 2:4;10:44-46;19:1-7

There is no evidence that it is not for today. A better explanation is that the "Baptism with the Holy Spirit" is for today. The only scripture that one would have a crutch for is 1 Corinthians 13:8

"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away."

This, however, is speaking of the perfect age to come. Read down a little further in verse 9 and 10.

"For we know in part and we prophesy in part; but when that which is PERFECT is come, then that which is in part shall be done away."

For this verse to come remotely close to being justification for belief that tongues are done away with for TODAY, the following things would have to occur:

1. Prophecies shall fail..
2.Knowledge has vanished away.

Now, considering you are not Pentecostal/Charismatic, I am sure that you believe that prophecy is not for today. However, knowledge has obviously NOT vanished away. When the perfect age comes, however, we will not need knowledge, prophecies, or tongues, because we will be in a perfect state. Paul himself said in in 1 Corinthians 14:5 that he wants everyone to speak in tongues (To be Baptized with the Holy Spirit). When you were saved, you were Baptized into Christ. Christ then, baptizes you into the Holy Spirit, if you are willing to accept the gift.

Paul himself said in in 1 Corinthians 14:5 that he wants everyone to speak in tongues (To be Baptized with the Holy Spirit).

Incidentally, the man who coined the doctrine of tongues as the [i]uniform initial evidence[/i] of being filled with the Spirit is the same man that proposed the British and American peoples were part of the "10 lost tribes" of Israel.

Every time someone was baptized in the Holy Spirit in Acts they DID speak in tongues. The only time it was not recorded was in chapter 9. However, it didn't need recorded! The evidence is already backed up by scripture after scripture.
After Saul's conversion on the Damascus Road, a disciple named Ananias was sent that Saul might receive his sight and "be filled with the Holy Ghost" (Acts 9:17). The restoration of sight is described, but nothing further is said in Acts 9 about Saul's being filled with the Holy Spirit. In 1 Corinthians 14:18, however, Paul testified, "I speak with tongues more than ye all." Since Paul began speaking with tongues at some time, it is logical to assume he began when he was baptized in the Holy Spirit. This would be in perfect harmony with those events in which the details of the baptism in the Spirit are given.

Of the five instances in Acts which recount the experience of believers being baptized in the Spirit, three supply details. Speaking in tongues is the only one that occurs each time (Acts 2, 10, 19). In the Acts 10 account, tongues is specifically mentioned as proof that "the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues" (Acts 10:45, 46). In the two cases where details are not supplied, circumstances strongly imply that speaking with other tongues accompanied the experience. In Acts 8 Simon saw something ( saw them speak in tongues) that prompted him to offer money for the power to impart such a gift.

I would also like to point out that tongues as the initial evidence was not "coined" by any man. It gives evidence of such in the Word of God.

As far as history of past revivals, John Wesley has reported people speaking in tongues in his meetings. However, I am not interested so much in history, as much as I am what the Word of God says.

Every time someone was baptized in the Holy Spirit in Acts they DID speak in tongues. The only time it was not recorded was in chapter 9.

Do you really believe that no man had experienced the genuine Spirit Baptism until 1901 in Topeka, Kansas?

I have no doubt that God did not use these preachers who never spoke in tongues.

I believe they were filled with the Holy Spirit for God to use them the way he did.

It is also very clear from the book of acts that the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit was the speaking in tongues.

People can deny it but they can never prove otherwise. The evidence is clear and the only ones who will try and prove otherwise are only those who have never experienced it.

I believe it was Smith Wigglesworth who promise a reward to any one who could prove a genuine baptism in the Holy Ghost without the evidence of speaking in tonques.

But I am also one who believes that many charismatics who have learn how to say a few words that they don't understand and think they have it don't really have the experience.

The real baptism in the Holy Ghost is powerful and God takes complete control and you are amazed at what God did through and in you and there is never a doubt about it because it is an awesome experience.

PaulWest, I just edited my previous post. I have just answered your questions in it.

I have just answered your questions in it.

How much evidence do you need?? I still have not seen where you have scripturally proven your point. I would be interested to know your SCRIPTURAL point of view, and not the historical point of view. Actually, I see no Scripture quoted in all of your posts.

God is the same yesterday, today and forever. If the Apostles were given the gift of tongues, then we too are available to the same gifts.

I still have not seen where you have scripturally proven your point. I would be interested to know your SCRIPTURAL point of view, and not the historical point of view.

Scripture is blatantly inconclusive on this doctrine, this is obvious, and the fact of it is substantiated by church history which I further appeal to to make my point. In your case, church history repudiates your stance and only proves your error from which the scripures you appeal to never conclusively supported in the first place.

I still see no scripture. I choose to make the Word of God the authority. This is just willful ignorance. Scripture plainly shows that one speaks in tongues when Baptized with the Spirit. Scripture shows tongues as the evidence 3 TIMES. That looks like a majority more than a minority. It seems that you look to the history of the church more than you do what the Word says. God is continuously shedding more light on his Scripture. The early church fathers were used by God mightily, but they were also walking in all the light they knew at that time. Many DID speak in tongues if you study church revival meetings in the seventeen and eighteen hundreds.

I was wondering what everyones thoughts were about wether or not tongues still happen today or not.

I see lots of people using tongues. Too bad that most don't know how to control it.

I've learned that it's better to control the tongue I've got rather than seek to speak in other tongues.

(By the way, I say this while I also believe that God still gives this gift.)

This is just willful ignorance. Scripture plainly shows that one speaks in tongues when Baptized with the Spirit. Scripture shows tongues as the evidence 3 TIMES. That looks like a majority more than a minority.

This is just willful ignorance

At least now you're not saying someone spoke in tongues on each occasion like you did at the onset.

Yes, I do believe that EVERY person did speak in tongues. Even if the Scripture does not say on those two incidents in Acts, the evidence IS there in other verses, so it doesn't have to say.

This is just willful ignorance

That is shameful statement, for you do not know me, or how much I have studied this topic. I do not agree with your convictions, that is all.

This is not meant to sound harsh, but I think that this subject is very clear.

There are some excellent teachings on the subject by Zac Poonen, Finney, Moody, Murray, Keith Daniel, Nee.

I'm not necessarily concerned with what these men say on the subject. This is definitely not to say that these men are not men of God. I am rather saying that I base my beliefs on the Word of God, not on what history or preachers tell me.

I am rather saying that I base my beliefs on the Word of God, not on what history or preachers tell me.

What is so hard to understand about this? We know for a fact there have been men mightily used by God in the miraculous, the supernatural, explosive soul winning and manifestations unprecedented, men through whom the Holy Spirit perfomed manifold signs and wonders with all the evidences of a genuine Spirit-Baptized ministry and who never once spoke in a tongue, or wrote of speaking at tongues at their filling (yet they could all write of the day when they were Spirit-Baptized). Might this explain why Scripture is curiously silent in certain places...places where you are grasping at straws to make it fit a universal doctrine that was never delineated in scripture?

Dear brother, there are weightier things at hand here, and God knew the controversy tongues would generate in the 20th century. I had a heart-to-heart with my Pastor earlier this year over this very topic (I relinquished my credentials back to the AG over this very thing, not to mention the doctrine on compulsory tithing and the ordination of female pastors). Tithing and consenting to tongues as the initial are non-negotiable tenants. I don't want to go back over it here; the poster of this thread inquired about tongues and he/she deserved to hear the other side of a challenge.

Thank you for this discussion, thank you for your grace and not going very heavy with the assumptions (you could have went heavier, and I thank you for personal restraint). These topics can really encite feelings, emotions, flesh. I think I'm finished here and I wish you a very profitable stay at SI.

The Lord bless you,

Brother Paul

Bless you, Paul...I enjoyed the discussion as well.

I found a very good bible study online that addresses many of these questions on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and the many questions concerning tongues being the initial evidence.

Below is the website that the bible study is on, as well as a excerpt from the bible study.

In His Love,
Mike

http://www.christcenteredmall.com/teachings/holy-spirit-baptism.htm

Evidences of Holy Spirit Baptism

In the book of Acts, the most common sign of Holy Spirit baptism was the expression of unknown tongues. "They were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance" (Acts 2:4; also see Mark 16:17; Acts 10:44-48, 19:6). Why was the sign of tongues the most common evidence of Holy Spirit baptism? Well, probably because a person's tongue is the most unruly member of the body (see James 3:2-10), so when the tongue is brought under the inspiration and influence of the Holy Spirit, there can be no doubt that the whole person has been immersed in the Holy Spirit.

Some churches teach that speaking in tongues is the sole evidence of being filled with the Spirit, but this is not altogether true. The biblical examples indicate that in addition to tongues, evidences of being filled with the Spirit include prophecy (Luke 1:41, Acts 19:6), boldness (Acts 4:31), miraculous healings (Acts 5:15-16), spiritual songs (Ephesians 5:19), wisdom (Acts 6:3), faith (Acts 6:8), and joy (Acts 13:52). Tongues were the common sign, but it was not recorded in every instance (see Acts 8:15-17 and
9:17-19). Also, some believers received the Holy Spirit infilling after water baptism (see Acts 10:5-6); others received it before water baptism (see Acts 10:44-48). Man often likes to put God in a box and predict the move of God's Spirit with restrictive formulas, but the Holy Spirit works best with repentant, humble hearts that are yielded to Him and are willing to go with the flow. Like a heavenly wind, the Spirit comes and goes in perfect agreement with the will of the Father (see John 3:8).

Paul taught that the sign of tongues was meant for prayer and personal edification, for building up the Body of Christ, and as a sign to unbelievers (see I Corinthians 12:4-11, 14:4-5,22). Paul said, "I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all" and "Wherefore, brethren, covet [desire] to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues" (I Corinthians
14:18,39). Although tongues are beneficial, speaking in tongues should not be the focus of Holy Spirit baptism but rather fully yielding oneself in worship to Jesus. A language of the Spirit will often come spontaneously when the heart is so full of the Spirit that common words are insufficient for expression. "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered" (Romans 8:26). The Old Testament prophet Jeremiah experienced this kind of fullness, like a fire within: "But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay" (Jeremiah 20:9). What did Jeremiah do? He prophesied with boldness to the people of Judah as the Spirit gave him the words to say.

The apostle Paul said that every member in the Body of Christ is necessary, and not all will speak in tongues. "Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? (I Corinthians 12:30). There are, in fact, nine gifts or manifestations of the Spirit and "diverse tongues" is just one of them. "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. For to one is
given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; to another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will" (I Corinthians 12:7-11). Each of these nine gifts is a different manifestation of the same Spirit.

Every believer has at least one spiritual gift, distributed by God as it pleases Him (I Corinthians 12:11). The gifts are given to edify the Body of Christ in love. "From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love"
(Ephesians 4:16). A believer must exercise faith in using his or her gift, because the gifts are initially undeveloped and must be exercised to grow and become fully mature over time. The goal, however, is not for us to be self-focused on our spiritual gifts, but to honor Jesus Christ and walk in His footsteps of humility and servanthood.

Conclusion

The oil of the Holy Spirit consecrates us and lights our spiritual lamps, while the fire of the Holy Spirit purges sin (a process called sanctification) and ignites a flame of passion (love for Jesus) in our hearts. As believers in Christ, we are responsible for keeping our vessels pure and the oil full like the five wise virgins in Jesus' parable (see Matthew 25:4) so that the light of Christ may shine brightly within us (see Matthew 5:14-16).

Those of you who have been filled with the Holy Spirit in the past but have let the oil run out of your spiritual lamps, we encourage you to go to the Lord and ask for a fresh infilling of the Spirit. The Bible says, "Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip" (Hebrews 2:1). The Greek wording of this verse could be translated "lest at any time we should run out as leaking vessels."

You, dearly beloved ones in Christ, are the temple of the Holy Spirit. Your spiritual light is completely dependent upon the oil and flame of the Spirit of God. "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us" (II Corinthians 4:6-7).
This Christian Bible teaching was written by David Holt Boshart, Jr. and his wife Shari Boshart.