What would you think of a man who'd say such things?

I'd think he wasn't very original for plagiarizing Adolf Hitler. ;-)

...Utopia?...The glory of the promise of God to His church is far beyond the meaning of this word...Surely it will come, but as of now let us be faithful as Christians, in our hearts, in our words, in our deeds.

Seems to me that the man is a zealot, but realy don't know how far he will do to carry through his ideas.

Well, to my mind were the atrocities suffered by the faithful Christians from those who carry their doctrines(or holiness?) in one hand and the sword in the other hand.

Blessed be the Lord our God who gives us strenth and consolation in those very hard moments.

Hi Wisevirgin,

You give us a very important reminder as we approach election time here in the States. Perhaps even some of us here are still looking for some man to part the sea of all our troubles. I used to wonder how could the secular western civilization ever 'worship' another man, as the bible seems to predict they will. Yet look at Germany 60 years ago...and Germany just a few weeks ago. And it is worse here in the states. Oh how easy it is to make a secular man worship an idol. It is easy because they have no greater God then themselves...this is why secular Europe and America are looking for a political messiah. Having rejected God, their hearts are a vacuum.

There is a price for such idolatry. The bible always knows how to describe the issue in simplest terms.

"But beware of men, for they will hand you over to the courts..."

MC

Humanism changes clothes once in a while. Today it has a very large wardrobe. And I would guess some whould be appalled if they knew Hitler wore them and allowed it to motivate him. On the other hand they may dismiss the holocaust as a figment of an active imagination.

When I read the lead post the thought occurred to me: wonder what they would say if you did not embrace the doctrines exactly like they think they should be understood and believed? Would they kill you? Likely. Makes the secular look a tad bit more endurable.

Thanks for sharing, wisevirgin.
ginnyrose

You are quoting part of what is believed to be a letter written by Osama bin Laden, from 2002(?).

At first I thought it was Ron Paul because that was the first website that came up when I searched the quote :-P

Jesus said in John 18:36
Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."

There is not such a thing as a Christian nation and there will not be one before the millenium.
Neither the USA nor UK or Nagaland in India or Poland are Christian countries or have ever been.
Making Christianity the official and only state religion must end in desaster and apostacy such as the rule of the pacacy which revealed its true character in the inquisition. If Christinity is made religion by decree you are giving it its death blow. Unconverted people hungry for power will ursup it and turn it into a religious regime. Infant baptism will have to become compulsary for its citizens and people will think they can only be saved by complying with the religious requirements of the establishment.

Jesus never said any word against the blatant paganism of the Roman empire which was even more corrupt than our governments now. He had no political agenda, he did not come to save the world but to save us from the world. He compels people to be saved from this perverse and adulterous generation but not to "transform" society by Christian principles. A nation is blessed by leaning on Christian values, which are universally right and true. The church should be light and salt and exercise its positive influence wherever the Lord puts us, but we are never to take over such as the promoters of the Kindom Dominion theology put it.

narrowpath

Nice Post,.....do you also have a date on this writting wisevirgin?

wisevirgin wrote:
"The Government will maintain and defend the foundations on which the power of our nation rests. It will offer strong protection to Christianity as the very basis of our collective morality. Today Christians stand at the head of our country. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit. We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theatre, and in the
press-in short, we want to burn out the poison of
immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during recent years."

"Woman's world is her husband, her family, her
children and her home. We do not find it right when she presses into the world of men."

"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith . . . we need believing people."

"In this hour I would ask of the Lord God only this:that, as in the past, so in the years to come He would give His blessing to our work and our action, to our judgement and our resolution, that He will safeguard us from all false pride and from all cowardly servility, that He may grant us to find the straight path which His Providence has ordained.That He may ever give us the courage to do the right, never to falter, never to yield before any violence, before any
danger. I am convinced that men who are created by God should live in accordance with the will of the Almighty.If Providence had not guided us I could often never have found these paths. No man can fashion world-history or the history of peoples unless upon his purpose and his powers there rests the blessings of this Providence."

"The Government will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built up. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality and the family as the basis of national life.The Government regards the Christian confessions
as factors essential to the soul of the people. In the schools, the government will protect the rightful influence of the Christian bodies. We hold the spiritual forces of Christianity to be indispensable elements in the moral uplift of most of the people. The Government regards Christianity as the unshakable foundation of the morals and moral code of the nation. The rights of the churches shall not be diminished."

Amen wisevirgin!

Luke 21:1-24
and
Luke 21:25-36

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;

30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.

[b]31 So likewise ye, [u]when ye see[/u] these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.[/b]

32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
KJV

wisevirgin wrote:
Yes! boG is correct.

Osama bin Laden, although he is an enemy of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and a murderer at heart, has accurately described to a large degree the american way.

America never was, nor will be a christian nation. The book, "The Myth of a Christian Nation" throws much light on that faulty premise that america is a christian nation.

Anyone who would think otherwise does not understand the Kingdom of God and the Holy Nation spoken of by Peter.

Would to God that those who go by the name of christian would repent of encouraging the young to enter the U.S. military.

We have no King but Jesus.

We fight under no other banner or name.

And our weapons of warfare are not carnal.

REPENT! For the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

Hi Narrowpath,

You said:
The church should be light and salt and exercise its positive influence wherever the Lord puts us, but we are never to take over such as the promoters of the Kindom Dominion theology put it.
_____________________

AMEN!!! Satan is using that false doctrine to fufill Dan. 7:25 - God will allow it but God wins in the end and we who endure with Him until the end.

Many blessings to you and yours!
Connie

narrowpath wrote:
Jesus said in John 18:36
Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."

There is not such a thing as a Christian nation and there will not be one before the millenium.
Neither the USA nor UK or Nagaland in India or Poland are Christian countries or have ever been.
Making Christianity the official and only state religion must end in desaster and apostacy such as the rule of the pacacy which revealed its true character in the inquisition. If Christinity is made religion by decree you are giving it its death blow. Unconverted people hungry for power will ursup it and turn it into a religious regime. Infant baptism will have to become compulsary for its citizens and people will think they can only be saved by complying with the religious requirements of the establishment.

Jesus never said any word against the blatant paganism of the Roman empire which was even more corrupt than our governments now. He had no political agenda, he did not come to save the world but to save us from the world. He compels people to be saved from this perverse and adulterous generation but not to "transform" society by Christian principles. A nation is blessed by leaning on Christian values, which are universally right and true. The church should be light and salt and exercise its positive influence wherever the Lord puts us, but we are never to take over such as the promoters of the Kindom Dominion theology put it.

narrowpath

Have you all noticed that this world is worshipping the word "Change"?

It's everywhere, Globally, even on TBN.

On Praise The Lord program on TNB the other night Mark Chironna and Lance Walnau must have said that word about 50 times and sometimes the other guests said that word 5 times in 2 minutes. It's very sick.

Still rather the wrestle is against the demons behind that word "Change": Notice Daniel 7:25.

WE ARE HERE RIGHT "NOW" seeing Daniel 7:25 take form and shape.

God bless all you saints of God.
Endure with Jesus until the end!
Connie

There is not such a thing as a Christian nation

People, get your facts straight! I lost a more scathing response but this is appalling ...

If you are going to quote the devil, quote him accurately wont you?

[i]"The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam[/i]"

[url=http://www.robert-fisk.com/letter_from_usama_to_america_24Nov2002.htm]Usama bin Ladin's 'letter to the American people'[/url]

I find it arrogant, pathetic, haughty and proud that the rhetoric of ignorance, clipped from a haphazard Googling is to be put on some kind of par of study of American history. The illogic of taking these sentiments to their logical conclusion would have you joining the ranks of the atheists and others to strip mine the back bone of [i]foundational[/i] [u]principles[/u] that this country was set upon. Go on, burn up your currency that still says "In God We Trust" since it was such a betrayal to ascribe anything of a Christian notion. Tell me, would you prefer tyranny? dictatorship? Communism?

From the comfort behind your keyboards you can pontificate all you like and forget the brave, regardless of your disgust - that laid down their lives so that you could post flippant, ignorant commentary.

Think this is some quasi- political slant, a Rah-Rah for the good ol USA? This is not about drawing up sides on a battle field but it is about ignorance and arrogance. Study American History before you go shooting off at the lip and before you start quoting terrorists for support - irregardless of whatever 'truth' ... Did Jesus give satan brownie points for using the scriptures, because they were the scriptures?

Think things through people. Would you have the gall to send this sort of rhetoric to the survivors, the police and firefighters of 911? Who is it that is need of repentance here?

[url=http://books.google.com/books?id=fNqdmUnqTJUC&pg=RA1-PA51&lpg=RA1-PA51&dq=It+is+saddening+to+tell+you+that+you+are+the+worst+civilization+witnessed+by+the+history+of+mankind.&source=web&ots=IuhmSAmouj&sig=nqQ21ygWVtF1QeaZPz13Pi_DWv0&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PRA1-PA57,M1]The 9/11 Commission Report [/url]

Get your facts straight! Read up on the founding fathers of this once great country - It still is despite the many obvious, glaring and understood maladies, it's sin ... Go on put your money where your mouth is, [i]move![/i]. Move to a third world country and suffer in truth rather than in lip service, ungrateful ....

[url=http://etext.virginia.edu/jefferson/]Thomas Jefferson Digital Archives[/url]

For those who regurgitate the enemy's lie that this country (the USA) was never founded upon Christian principle, I would remind you that in its infancy there were colonies and constitutions that predated 1776. This land was founded upon pilgrims and puritans and worshippers of Jesus Christ, and His name - once upon a time - was publically invoked in schools, English grammar textbooks and dictionaries were infused with references to God and His Son Jesus Christ, and Holy Scripture was called upon for all instructions in life, whether for moral, educational, or governmental purposes. This was 150 plus years before Jefferson and Franklin and Jay and Hamilton and other framers of the 1776 constitution were even born. Reverend Nathaniel Ward - a Puritan - wrote the very first constitution in North America:

[b]THE LIBERTIES OF THE MASSACHUSETS COLLONIE IN NEW ENGLAND, 1641[/b]

The free fruition of such liberties Immunities and priveledges as [b]humanitie, Civilitie, and Christianitie[/b] call for as due to every man in his place and proportion without impeachment and Infringement hath ever bene and ever will be the tranquillitie and Stabilitie of Churches and Commonwealths. And the deniall or deprivall thereof, the disturbance if not the ruine of both.

We hould it therefore our dutie and safetie whilst we are about the further establishing of this Government to collect and expresse all such freedomes as for present we foresee may concerne us, and our posteritie after us, And to ratify them with our sollemne consent.

Wee doe therefore this day religiously and unanimously decree and confirme these following Rites, liberties and priveledges concerneing our Churches, and Civill State to be respectively impartiallie and inviolably enjoyed and observed throughout our Jurisdiction for ever.

1. No mans life shall be taken away, no mans honour or good name shall be stayned, no mans person shall be arested, restrayned, banished, dismembred, nor any wayes punished, no man shall be deprived of his wife or children, no mans goods or estaite shall be taken away from him, nor any way indammaged under colour of law or Countenance of Authoritie, unlesse it be by vertue or equitie of some expresse law of the Country waranting the same, established by a generall Court and sufficiently published, or in case of the defect of a law in any parteculer case by the word of God. And in Capitall cases, or in cases concerning dismembring or banishment according to that word to be judged by the Generall Court.

2. Every person within this Jurisdiction, whether Inhabitant or forreiner shall enjoy the same justice and law, that is generall for the plantation, which we constitute and execute one towards another without partialitie or delay.

3. No man shall be urged to take any oath or subscribe any articles, covenants or remonstrance, of a publique and Civill nature, but such as the Generall Court hath considered, allowed and required.

4. No man shall be punished for not appearing at or before any Civill Assembly, Court, Councell, Magistrate, or Officer, nor for the omission of any office or service, if he shall be necessarily hindred by any apparent Act or providence of God, which he could neither foresee nor avoid. Provided that this law shall not prejudice any person of his just cost or damage, in any civill action.

5. No man shall be compelled to any publique worke or service unlesse the presse be grounded upon some act of the generall Court, and have reasonable allowance therefore.

6. No man shall be pressed in person to any office, worke, warres or other publique service, that is necessarily and suffitiently exempted by any naturall or personall impediment, as by want of yeares, greatnes of age, defect of minde, fayling of sences, or impotencie of Lymbes.

7. No man shall be compelled to goe out of the limits of this plantation upon any offensive warres which this Comonwealth or any of our freinds or confederats shall volentarily undertake. But onely upon such vindictive and defensive warres in our owne behalfe or the behalfe of our freinds and confederats as shall be enterprized by the Counsell and consent of a Court generall, or by authority derived from the same.

8. No mans Cattel or goods of what kinde soever shall be pressed or taken for any publique use or service, unlesse it be by warrant grounded upon some act of the generall Court, nor without such reasonable prices and hire as the ordinarie rates of the Countrie do afford. And if his Cattle or goods shall perish or suffer damage in such service, the owner shall be suffitiently recompenced.

Hi everyone,

Waltern,

I typed in a portion of one of the phrases that you qouted here and the only entry that came up in the search engine was your post on these forums. I'm not going to repeat the phrase here, I don't want to create another entry in the search engine.

[i]Edited to correct an error in spelling. Also, the word 'phrase' in the above should be paragraph(s) instead. The portion that I submitted to the search engine is from the 5th qoutation in the post and included the first two sentences of the qoutation.[/i]

Is the USA a Christian nation? Most godly folks would quickly say "No!" When one says 'no' we are thinking in terms of the government and its citizens being holy or godly.

Can we look to see exactly why some think it is a "Christian" nation? Perhaps it might suffice to consider how they govern (people are allow freedom of thought, religion, for example) . Or consider those who travel to foreign countries: they tell me they have never before appreciated our country so much as when they returned. My aunt tells me she felt like kneeling to the ground and kissing its soil! and this was from a very conservative Assembly of God lady. Missionaries say the same thing.

Maybe folks are getting the terms godly confused with Christian...In politics the difference is one will employ Christian principles when convenient. To be godly means you follow God regardless of political expediency or convenience. Big difference.

My thoughts,
ginnyrose

Thanks Paul, interesting, I'd never read that before.

As I was taking a walk with my puppy, out in the country, breathtaking beauty all around me, I was contemplating this whole discussion. Praying in regards to it, considering it, and just listening.

[i]To whom much is given, much is required.[/i]Regardless of any political persuasions I think we can all agree that here in the western world we have all been given much from the Lord.

We have opportunity to own several Bibles and read them freely, quote them freely, listen to sermons freely; and to sit in mostly peaceful homes with whatever kind of worship music we appreciate and write on a forum with a form of media that instantly posts to the world.

We can thank God for the freedom to go out into the street, in the grocery store, at some get together and talk freely about the Lord and the hope that He has given us for an eternity that is perfect with Him who is perfect. Without fear of physical abuse.

I can take my granchildren on my knee and tell them how God made each and every flower, each and every wonderful thing we see with our eyes and how God made them for a reason, how He loves them and wants them to know Him; and I have no reprocussions. No one arrests me for teaching children about Jesus.

I can talk with one who has an opposing view and not be arrested for trying to convert someone to my faith.

I have freedom of time, I have freedom to pray for everything that concerns me in this entire world. I have ample opportunity to give to those who struggle in this life, I can teach the neighbor girl 'Jesus Loves Me'. I can even stand on a street corner and sing "Grace, Grace, God's grace, grace that is greater than all our sin." to the top of my lungs and I may get a warning, I may get strange looks, but I would not get stoned.

Should America repent? [i]but now God command that all men everywhere to repent...[/i]

Is America, or any other western country/nation full of wickedness and depravity? [i]For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God[/i]

Are there forces at work behind the scenes that would deceive us? [i]...even now there are many anitchrists; whereby we know that it is the last time[/i]

How should we as Christs representatives on this earth behave? [i]Looking for and hasting unto the coming day of God...Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.[/i]

Myself, I long for that day when [i]...the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign forever and ever...[/i]

Right now, it is my responsibility to BE what God wants me to be on this earth, right where He planted me, wherever that is.

I thought about the words I heard Leonard Ravenhill say in one of his sermons..."Lord, help us to remember, 'it's not my brother, or my sister, but it's ME, oh Lord, standing in the need of prayer.'"

It is not the nations of unregenerate persons God has required to walk Godly, for in their own strength many try to be more righteous and become despising of those who are not as they are.

It is those who are called by the name of God, Christians, who has the greatest need to repent!

We have left our first love, we have allowed the spirit of Baalam inside our churches to spoil and cause stumbling blocks, we have taken the hand of the spirit of Jezebel and allowed other things to take the first place of God within our homes and hearts!

We have a name that we are alive, but so many of the churches are dead we might as well go sit in a cemetary and sing songs!

We're so rich and increased with goods, constantly searching for more, thinking that we have no need of a "provider"... which we don't.

Except that desperate need which says "repent, be zealous, receive correction as a son and daughter, search for Me till you find ME. Behold I stand at the door and knock.....
not at the heart of the unregenerate,
at the heart of the lukewarm church, that are so self satisfied that they point fingers, they judge with their own eyes, they despise the weak things, the small things, the base things that God has called and chosen, they worship wealth and position, knowledge and intellect, giving honor to men more than they do God.

It doesn't matter where you are from, each member of the body of Christ will be held responsible for the words of Christ they have heard and absorbed and not lived by...

I know there are those, that will overcome! Thank God for His infinte mercies! I thank God that while I sit here in the weakness of who I am, I can still hear His voice, His Word, speak to my heart.
[i]If My people, who are called by My name
will humble themselves,
and pray
and seek My face
and turn from [b]their[/b] wicked ways
then I will hear from heaven...[/i]

I'm thankful we belong to a kingdom which is unshakable!

Blessings, please excuse the length of my post.
In Christ, Lori