A New Reformation

The new Reforamtion will come when there is a joining of those who are "Spirit Filled believers," or Pentecostals for lack of a better term and those who know that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. There are "Conservative Pentecostals who do not believe that we need sociological techniques to do evangelism, pop psychology and pop psychiatry for Christian growth, extra-biblical signs or miracles for guidance, or political tools for achieving social progress and reform. There has been much damage been done by keeping people who are solid in the Word of God and Conservative Pentecostals apart. The weakness of Pentecostals has been their lack of knowledge of the Word of God and the weakness of the Baptists and others has been their attitde towards 1Cor 13. So, if both sides would humble themselves and join together, what a dynamic team they would make. The sword of the Spirit, the Word of God. Here is Matthew Henry"s take on what the Scriptures mean when it says "When the perfect has come."..........

III. He takes occasion hence to show how much better it will be with the church hereafter than it can be here. A state of perfection is in view (1Co_13:10): When that which is perfect shall come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When the end is once attained, the means will of course be abolished. There will be no need of tongues, and prophecy, and inspired knowledge, in a future life, because then the church will be in a state of perfection, complete both in knowledge and holiness. God will be known then clearly, and in a manner by intuition, and as perfectly as the capacity of glorified minds will allow; not by such transient glimpses, and little portions, as here. The difference between these two states is here pointed at in two particulars: 1. The present state is a state of childhood, the future that of manhood: When I was a child, I spoke as a child (that is, as some think, spoke with tongues), I understood as a child; ephronoun - sapiebam (that is, “I prophesied, I was taught the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, in such an extraordinary way as manifested I was not out of my childish state”), I thought, or reasoned, elogizomēn, as a child; but, when I became a man, I put away childish things. Such is the difference between earth and heaven. What narrow views, what confused and indistinct notions of things, have children, in comparison of grown men! And how naturally do men, when reason is ripened and matured, despise and relinquish their infant thoughts, put them away, reject them, esteem as nothing! Thus shall we think of our most valued gifts and acquisitions in this world, when we come to heaven. We shall despise our childish folly, in priding ourselves in such things when we are grown up to men in Christ. 2. Things are all dark and confused now, in comparison of what they will be hereafter: Now we see through a glass darkly (en ainigmati, in a riddle), then face to face; now we know in part, but then we shall know as we are known. Now we can only discern things at a great distance, as through a telescope, and that involved in clouds and obscurity; but hereafter the things to be known will be near and obvious, open to our eyes; and our knowledge will be free from all obscurity and error. God is to be seen face to face; and we are to know him as we are known by him; not indeed as perfectly, but in some sense in the same manner. We are known to him by mere inspection; he turns his eye towards us, and sees and searches us throughout. We shall then fix our eye on him, and see him as he is, 1Jo_3:2. We shall know how we are known, enter into all the mysteries of divine love and grace. O glorious change! To pass from darkness to light, from clouds to the clear sunshine of our Saviour's face, and in God's own light to see light! Psa_36:9. Note, It is the light of heaven only that will remove all clouds and darkness from the face of God. It is at best but twilight while we are in this world; there it will be perfect and eternal day.

Hi Colin

I would think a better question would be, is there any Scripture to support multiple division within the Body? Pride and ego have kept these two groups apart, that and 1Cor 13 and an intepretation that has shut of the minds of many to the sign gifts. On the other side, a lack of Biblical knowledge has led them into many snares and dangers. When both sides realize the dire state of Christianity, and start working together, then we will see the New Reformation.

It will take brave men from both sides to put their reputations on the line and become completely abandoned to the cause of Christ, and not to the cause of Calvinism or Pentecostalism or any other ism.

Am I coming to the conference? No. I think my input was finished early on, not neccecarily by my desire, but it has turned out that way. My initial vision of men of God coming to my home town of Greenock is coming to pass, and for that I am very grateful. Just the mere presence of so many Christians in this area will bring light into darkness. If it turns out to be just another conference, then I will be more bold the next time in bringing together brave men of God whose only desire is to see Christ glorified and the community and the country changed by the power of the Gospel and with men who have "katanusso," power. One without the other is impotent............Frank

Hi....just to clarify a few points. The problem lay in the church at Antioch. Part of the story unfolds in the Book of Galatians. And in Galatians 2 we see that Paul refers to the Judaizers in verse 4 as "false bretheren." These were "proffessing Christians," who sought to make the Christians(first named so at Antioch) a sect of Judaism. Peter was afraid of these Pharisees and played the "hypocrite," which is why Paul felt the need to rebuke him publicly.(a very harsh move) Yet, the point was so important that it had to be done. Peters response to the situation is excellent and instead of defending his actions and the doctrines of the Pharisees, they call for a council, the first ever council, to be held in Jerusalem. This cleared up the issue.
You ask this question "Are we not better off if we will just do those ministries independently?"

In my home town of Greenock, in Scotland, a notoriously ungodly twon in Scotland, with a population of about 65,000, there is about 50 denominations. As in the rest of Scotland and Britain, these churches are in various stages of death in a Post Christian society. If this was 2000 years ago, there would be "The church of Greenock."

The truth is that we are all part of the one Body, and each part needs each other. The hand cannot say to the leg that it has no need of it. It is pride and ego that has kept the groups apart. In every major revival, local churches worked together. The state of the Church today is so dire, and the hour so late, that we do not have the luxuary of denominationalism, if we want to be effective.

Its incredible to me that a lot of this division could center on a single text of Scripture, 1st Cor13:10. So, the world is going to hell, literally, but these men are divided and conquered and proud of it, I can only imagine how they will feel when they stand before the living God and announce that, even although their community was untouched for Christ, they stood firm on their "interpetation," and refused to work with their brothers and sisters for the cause of Christ.

As for Calvin and Arminius, this is a non-essential to the slavation of souls. Its a great debate to have between good brothers and sisters, but to allow it to divide and conquer us, only serves the purposes of the enemy. Pre-tribber, mid or post? Who cares? Another non-essential, another interesting debate among good brothers and sisters.

As far as seperation beinb Biblical? Not at all. The opposite is true. Unity is Biblical.

Col 3:11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, foreigner, Scythian, slave or freeman, but Christ is all things in all.

I completely agree with you eternalvalue. In this new reformation, the cross will be central. The worship of a Holy God, and His majesty and His vastness, and His awefulness(full of awe) will be central because this is what happens when we get a deeper revelation of Calvary and who God is and what He has done for us. If the church's that exist today will not do this, then they will die(merely going through the motions) and God will raise up a new witness(also meaing martyr) in these last days........Frank

Hi Rauch34. My heart and my spirit are with your statements. I have had more private messages and e-mails on this thread than any other. The remarkabale things is, that they are from people who are from different countries and backgrounds, but all have, what one saint called it to me " a silent scream," within them. A desperate longing to move and be silent and worship in the awesome presence and Holiness of God. To worship with people who are committed to death to self, who know that Calvary is the central truth of who we are and the innerancy of the Word.

I accept your word about seperating the wheat from the tares. I love your spirit that you would be concerned about that. I met with a fellow SI brother today, Robert, and we discussed that very subject(turns out we live close to each other)

Here is what I believe is going on. There is a seperation going on. The harvest has begun, silently, right under our noses. Jesus is beginning to seperate the sheep from the goats. The ten virgins are being challenged, lets see your light. Of course the five virgins , in this anology, with no oil, are the people who we must seperate ourselves from. They are all virgins, they all have lamps(so they all look the same, as does wheat and tares) but only one can produce light. If a lamp can produce light then it is valuable. If a lamp has no oil, then it is a burden and good for nothing, akin to salt losing its saltiness. It is only after coming to Kansas (many farms out West) that I discovered that as the harvest nears, then the wheat and the tares become more and more distinguishable. Yet, right up till close to the harvest, it is hard to tell them apart. If we are indeed in the harvest, then we should come out from amongst them. The five virgins should begin to gather themselves together.

This , I belive, is the new move of God. He is drawing the hungry and the thirsty. He is drawing all those who know something of His presence, whether in small measure or whether more. The reason that it is so painful for those who are so hungry, is because they have tasted of that sweet presnce of the Lord. It was instantly addictive. You knew there was nothing more than this. There was fullness of Joy. Oh, the basking in that light. So, when we hear a younger or present generation say "there must be more,' we know they can only say that because they live in the soulish realm. They have to sing louder, shout louder, dance more widely , akin to the prophets of Baal on the mountain, and still, nothing. Yet we priveleged ones, who have experience perhaps only one second in His presence, one word from the Masters lips, know that He is all in all. We have experienced the fullness and it leaves us in total incredulity that when we go to be with our Lord, then we will live for all eternity in the unadulterated presence of Him. My mind cannot conceive of this, it is beyond my human reasoning, the things the Lord has prepared for us.

So, in practicality, I think a new church will start, a new move of God. He will call us out. Like-minded believers, with no agendas, no ego's , only a burning desire to serve Him in the fullness of what He has for us, will gather together. Its the new reformation, it is coming, it will probably be persecuted , but the people it will draw will be people who expect persecution, no , embrace it as entering into the sufferings of the Lord.........Frank

I made a mistake, when I said I had more e-mails amd PMs on this thread than any other, I meant the the thread "What Fire has the younger generation acquired?" I think the two threads have merged, they go hand in hand......Frank