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Australian Pastor suspended by AoG

I
intrcssr83 Aug 20, 2008

Michael Guglielmucci, best known as the songwriter of the recent "Healer" single - which has served as an inspiration to many Christians with chronic and terminal health conditions - has had his credentials removed by Australian Christian Churches (ACC)after it was found that his battle with terminal cancer was in fact fraudulent:
[url=http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,24212817-2682,00.html]http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,24212817-2682,00.html[/url]

sermonindex Aug 20, 2008

that is so grievous, the only thing that gives me any personal succor, is the knowledge that there are 200 pastors who labor for the Lord, faithfully, quietly, and with fidelity for our Savior Jesus.

they don;t make the headlines of the world, but they sure make news in Heaven.

Lord love THEM, and Lord love you, natan

C
ccchhhrrriiisss Aug 20, 2008

Hello...

What would cause a man to claim such a thing? Does this resemble the "amazing" (and most of the time, false) claims of certain "healing," "prophecy" and "miracle" evangelists on television? Do you think that it exposes a problem of SELF within those who desire to work for the Lord?

I have noticed that there is a "status" that some people in the Body of Christ seem to aspire toward. It is as if they make such wild claims in order to cement their name as a "man of God." Do they not understand that truth and obedience matter to God? It isn't that God cannot still use them...but that they have so little faith in God that they attempt to embellish their "testimonies" with lies.

God can do much more than we could even claim. I really feel pity for a man who so desires attention from the Body of Christ that he would live such a deep, long-lasting lie -- to the point of faking a cancer diagnosis for two years. I'm not sure which is more telling -- the fact that this man was caught in the middle of this or the fact that there is a condition in which men feel such a need within the modern church?

:-(

R
Ruach34 Aug 20, 2008

This is sad...

The church building I attend showed this video to each of its three services two weekends ago.

It is a large church with potentially 4-5000 people observing this lie.

Has this been confirmed true?

sermonindex Aug 20, 2008

This is what happens when the church wont stand for truth, and there is no fear of God. The church has become such a "cult of personality". I think everyone ought to turn off their radios, turn off their TV's, avoid Christian bookstores... and turn inward. Fellowship with your local church and tune everyone else out.

I'm serious about this. Thanx to the media age we live in now, this is the foolishness that the church just eats up. If you're pastor is promoting junk like this... he cant be trusted. Find another church.

Krispy

sermonindex Aug 20, 2008

I "$pent" 20 years in a pentequackal environment and nothing they do surprises anymore.
At our mega church we had every charlatan known
to man over these twenty years. Hinn, Popof, a
leg stretching guy and so forth.
The ONLY preacher our church leadership ever questioned and critisized publicly
from the pulpit was David Wilkerson after a series of meetings in 1988. That's right , all the looneys were A-Okay and Wilkerson was a bad boy for preaching against sin.

C
ChrisMo Aug 21, 2008

This is so sad, what drives a person to do this. He must be very sick or looking for attention. It just shows how important it is to have a close relationship with the Lord. So many people will be rocked by this. We need to look to Jesus. He is the author & perfecter of our faith.

P
PassingThru Aug 21, 2008

This is so sad, what drives a person to do this.

I think the answer is in the nickname of the post just before yours : "Rev_Enue" !

Actors impersonate for a living. Pop Christianity is a very easy, gullible market.

The Bible promises that deception will abound in the last days...

[color=000099]Mat 24:28 For wherever the dead body may be, there the eagles will be gathered.[/color]

The analogy of a dead body attracting eagles also says something about congregations that are infested with circus actors.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying miracles shouldn't exist in Christian circles but we need to be very careful with how and why they are appearing.

PassingThru

R
Ruach34 Aug 21, 2008

Good comments...thanks Krittr for your admonition.

All this loud and expansive stuff reminds me of the few scriptures in the NT about people coming and saying, "there He is," or "He (Christ) is over here." Matt 24:23 refers to this.

Our Lord says do not believe them...

The conferences offered are marketed with large and expansive words; the healing meetings are all about 'look at me.' It is not at all like our Lord Jesus Christ who sent out family members from a room in order to raise the dead to life, or Peter in Acts 10.
It is not the Spirit of our Lord, it is the filthy spirit of this world and the world knows not the Spirit of the Lord, nor can know Him because it knows not the Father or Jesus Christ.
This is why men like David Wilkerson are shunned and mocked and big names are celebrated and offered pulpits.

In quietness and rest you will be saved...

E
Eliel Aug 25, 2008

There's no doubt to it's authenticity as far as I have seen. This is real, and very sad.

I must admit, I grew up from about 15 involved with Planetshakers church and Hillsong, and I have attended 4 Planetshakers conferrences and one Hillsong conference. And it'd get you excited about going out, and for about 2 weeks (maybe) you were excited about the gospel. But there was no lasting impact, and I came to realise this. Even during my time immersed in the culture I felt as though something was missing.

It's sad to see what has happened, and how so many people have been hurt here. It's even sadder how many people won't actually look to the doctrine that the churches that this man was speaking and "leading in worship" for, and how wrong and humanistic some of it is.

Of all the ironies - on the Sunday Night when this information was relayed to our night congregation, the worship leader had already heard about it, and resolved never to play the song in question, Healer, again. However, we played another song written by that same pastor, "Big", as well as many others from Hillsong and Planetshakers.

90% of our music comes from those two churches, whose theology is so wrong at times it's painful. And I like the music itself without the lyrics, and I think that to better reach people of today we need to use the music of today, like William Booth did when starting up the Salvation Army, like has happened many times throughout church history. I'd love for that music to be played from the stage. But where are the lyrics of old, that call us into complete surrender, that sing of how we can do nothing without Jesus as our Lord, that deeply praise God not because he does "nice things" for us, but because of a realisation of our sinfulness and the overwhelming power of grace that wipes that clean when we lay ourselves before Him.

And how do I, as a 22 year old who has never experienced a church fully like this, who is tasked with being a youth leader with many who are AOG junkies among the teens I'm supposed to be leading and among the other leaders, properly live this out?

There is something rotten in a lot of churches in Australia. And I'm not sure I even want to see the extent of the damage.

R
Ruach34 Aug 25, 2008

Yes, me to, Elial. Most of the music that the church I attend comes from Hillsong. They even send their 'music team' there to attend the musician conferences. Our pastor is friends with Brian Houston and even spoke to him after this happened. Our pastor asked him what he was gonna do and Brian said he was gonna look this guy up when he got back home...

Yet i desire the old paths, the calm, the quiet. Isaiah 30 states it plainly, "in quietness...in rest..." Can it get any plainer?

Whatr'ya gonna do, Elial?

R
RobertW Aug 25, 2008

Hi Elial,

I think that Derek Prince's message Earthly, Soulish and Demonic that can be found by doing a search with those key words is utterly essential in this crisis hour. I would start there and really study what he is saying. I personally deeply wish someone had turned me to a sermon like that years ago. I do NOT agree with Derek Prince on a number of things, but this teaching is as sound as I have heard. When you get to the web page click on the little speaker and it will play. I think this is a place to start. Others have recommended Tozer's Knowledge of the Holy, but I would recommend Derek Prince first.

C
CJaKfOrEsT Aug 26, 2008


PassingThru wrote:
I think the answer is in the nickname of the post just before yours : "Rev_Enue" !

Actors impersonate for a living. Pop Christianity is a very easy, gullible market.

With all due respect, but I think this might be a little out of line. My question would echo the one you had quoted, "what drives a person to do this"? This is a real flesh and blood person, who is bound in such deception, that they felt the need to pursue acceptance in this highly destructive manner. He was deceived to the point that he even hid it from his family.

I think the greater attrocity is that the church, by and large, held this man in such high esteem, even before he became "cancerous". Where were the men of God to come around this lad, and show him that he was loved? What does it say about an institution that is meant to be defined by its love for each other.

This event betrays the cancer (mind the pun)of the "prosperity gospel", which has replaced the "fruit of the Spirit" with "enthusiasm" and "positivity", and forsakes "brokeness", like few others. Mike was the son of a well known pastor, over here, and as much as I would like to criticise him, I have been astounded at the brokeness that has been produced in him, as he struggled with his faith, in the face of his son's cancer (remember that all this was hidden from his family members).

Ironically, it was Mike's preaching that began the process of my leaving the only church I had ever known, before awakening to truth (thanks greatly to frequent visits to this place :-)). The thing that I feared, was listening to a sermon, by a man who was paraded as a "mighty man of God", which was full of "self exertion" (and all this years before the cancer episode began. My peers would not hear my concerns, labelling me as "fanatic", a kind of Christian version of "Chicken Little".

As this was going on, a found myself meeting countless young atheist, who were "on fire Christians" in their youth. As a former youth leader, I began to fear seeing my kids raised in that "Charismatic Youth Culture", which discards all but the openly enthusiastic, while the hurting are branded backsliders. I know in my days in youth ministry, I bought into this lie. I promoted the loudest pray-ers, the ones who saw the "visions", phophecied with "greatest accuracy", and of course, those with exceptional musical ability (and yes it grieves me to say so now). Ministry was one of efficiency, and utilitarianism.

We had the best of intentions, but [b]no one to tell us any different[/b]. Even if we did, we were indoctrinated to resist those who would bring such a message, by those who were indoctrinated likewise. To be honest, I spent a good six months dealing with my own pent up rage, after hearing the likes of Ravenhill and Wilkerson, because I had to face the fact that I had been lied to, by people that I loved like parents, and that I had lied to people who I loved with parental affection. Many of those who served under me, are now well and truly in the world, most flatly denying Christ.

Mikes only crime was [b]believing the lie presented to him[/b], and but for the grace of God, so go I. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to water down the seriousness of his sin, only highlighting my respusledness at a mentality that seeks to have us see his sin as worse than ours. Please hear me friend, I don't mean this as a personal slight on your character. I only suggest that there is another lie which can be bought into, that suggests that presenting slanderous theories, based on half the facts, is to be called discernment.

I am reminded of the words of Isaiah's messianic prophecy


And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and [u]he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth[/u]
: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
[b]Isaiah 11:3-4[/b]

P
PassingThru Aug 26, 2008

@CJakfOrEsT

With all due respect, but I think this might be a little out of line.

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to water down the seriousness of his sin, only highlighting my respusledness at a mentality that seeks to have us see his sin as worse than ours. Please hear me friend, I don't mean this as a personal slight on your character. I only suggest that there is another lie which can be bought into, that suggests that presenting slanderous theories, based on half the facts, is to be called discernment.

You are right. My comments were based on my dislike for 'commercial Christianity' rather than fact. Sorry.

My time would have been better spent taking care of my own walk.

PassingThru

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