Persecution from the YMCA?!

I just received this in a newsletter from www.livingwaters.com (Ray Comfort's ministry) :Kicked out of the YMCA...for witnessing??!We wanted to bring to your attention a recent incident that took place with one of our ministry partners, Larry Lee, who lives in Marietta, Georgia, a suburb of Atlanta. As you read his account, we are confident that you will see the unacceptable and unfair manner in which he has been treated by the YMCA. More importantly we are confident that you will agree with us in concluding that Larry's civil and religious rights have been violated. This concerns us because it serves as a threat to our freedom of speech in proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ. When souls hang in the balance we take these matters seriously. We want to ask you to stand with us and contact both the local YMCA where this incident took place as well as the YMCA International Headquarters. Please feel free to mail letters, call, e-mail or send faxes. However, we do ask that you remain courteous, kind, and loving in your correspondence. It might also be good to give a brief description of what it is you are contacting them about. Please let them know your thoughts regarding this matter. All the necessary contact information is provided at the end of this e-mail. Here is Larry's summary of what happened: Last Friday afternoon, I went to work out at the local YMCA that my family belongs to. As I approached the building, I noticed two young men hanging out on the front sidewalk just outside the main entrance, apparently having just finished a game of basketball inside. As is my custom in my ministry, I walked up to these guys to see if I could talk with them about Christianity. I almost always start out by asking some fun trivia questions and give dollar bills for correct answers - questions like, "What's the capital of France?" and "Who is the Prime Minister of England?" These guys, who were seniors at a local high school, were bright - they got almost all the trivia right. I told them that I run a local ministry and that I like to turn the tables a bit by giving money away rather than asking for it. They thought that was cool.I then did what I always do, which is to transition to "the good person test," in which we use the Ten Commandments to see if we are "good" enough in God's eyes to enter heaven. Of course everyone fails the test, but it proves a wonderful point - we need God's grace in order to enter heaven - we need Jesus Christ. These guys were really into the conversation. I told them that even though they didn't pass the good person test, I was going to give them the grand prize anyway - $20 - as an illustration of God's grace. Even though they didn't deserve the $20, I was giving it to them as a gift, just like none of us deserves to go to heaven, but God offers us everlasting life through Jesus Christ as a gift. These guys were so excited - I told them they could use the $20 to have dinner on me - they couldn't stop thanking me. One kid stood up and said, "Man, I really appreciate this, thanks man." The other guy said, "Yeah, thanks, this is cool." I gave them some tracts that reviewed the gospel and told them I'd see them around. They thanked me again, and I left to go work out inside.Much to my surprise, the next morning (Saturday), I received a call at my house from the director of the YMCA. She asked, "Were you at the YMCA yesterday talking to two young men about religion and giving them money?" I said, "Yes." She proceeded to tell me that my YMCA family membership was immediately terminated. I asked her what I had done wrong. She said my behavior was totally inappropriate, that I was interrupting those boys from exercising and that they didn't come to the Y to talk about religion. I asked if it was wrong to talk about Christianity on the campus of a Christian organization. She avoided the question and told me I was no longer welcome at the Y. I repeated my question, to which she replied, "I'm not going to argue with you." I again asked the question, and she hung up on me. I was shocked. A few days later, I received another call from the YMCA director. She didn't hang up on me this time, although she did threaten to do so when I asked her to please show me the written rule in the YMCA literature that says what I did was wrong. She said I was soliciting, which is against the rules, but I told her that the dictionary says that to solicit is to ask for - and I didn't ask for anything, in fact I was giving things away. She said that my behavior was, and I quote, "bizarre," "uncalled for," and "totally inappropriate." Then she said that what I did could very easily be taken as a sexual advance, implying that I appear to be some sort of homosexual predator offering money for sex. You can imagine my shock. I asked, "What exactly is sexual about telling two guys how they can have everlasting life?" She changed the subject. Ironically, this same director three months earlier would not change the channel on one of the YMCA television sets that was showing a soap opera in which a man handcuffed a screaming woman to a bed, ripped off her clothes and jumped on her to rape her. When I requested that they change the channel, the director's response was, "You can watch a different TV set." Friends, this whole scenario is unconscionable, unthinkable, and brimming with intolerance. For an organization that claims to stand for tolerance and diversity, this YMCA is neither tolerant of people who preach the gospel nor interested in having a gospel preacher as part of their diverse membership. I hold no personal grudges against these folks; I simply see this as an affront to all Christians and an effort to shut down our right to share the gospel. The sad thing about this incident is that I was never even given the opportunity to explain what happened before my membership was revoked. It was quite arbitrary - I was given no warning. Even after I explained myself, there was no room for reasoning. The director's mind was already made up and I hadn't even violated any rules. What did I do wrong by talking to two gentlemen about Christianity at a Christian organization and giving them money to illustrate a point? Is this the way that a "Christian" organization should treat one of its Christian members who was peacefully discussing Christianity with two young men who are seniors in high school, probably old enough to vote this November? Is this behavior fitting for an organization that states the following about its own history on its website?:Through the influence of nationally known lay evangelists Dwight L. Moody (1837-1899) and John Mott (1865-1955), who dominated the movement in the last half of the 19th and first half of the 20th centuries respectively, the American YMCAs sent workers by the thousands overseas, both as missionary-like YMCA secretaries and as war workers.The first foreign work secretaries, as they were called, reflected the huge missionary outreach by Christian churches near the turn of the century. But instead of churches, they organized YMCAs that eventually were placed under local control. Both Moody and Mott served for lengthy periods as paid professional staff members of the YMCA movement. Both maintained lifelong connections with it.This is the YMCA's current mission statement: "To put Christian principals into practice through programs that build healthy spirit, mind and body for all."What do you think? Please let the YMCA know and be sure to mention Larry Lee's name. Also, please feel free to forward this on to all your friends. Here is the contact information: East Cobb YMCA (Where the incident took place)1055 E. Piedmont Rd.Marietta, GA 30062Phone: (770) 977-5991Fax: (770) 578-2793Email: maureenn@ymcacobb.orgWebsite: www.ymcacobb.org We also encourage you to contact the YMCA National Headquarters:YMCA of the USAAssociation Advancement101 North Wacker DriveChicago, IL 60606Phone: 312-977-0031Website: www.ymca.net God bless, Ray, Sue, Daniel, EZ, Mark, Jacob, Ron, Becky, Barbara, Duane, Rick, Scotty, Carol, Dale, Michelle, Eddie, Banana, and Mandy.

Hi Keith,Just received the same update, quit incredible...Wonder if that other 4 lettered organization would take interest in this (ACLU) :oops: From their very own history:http://www.ymca.net/index.jsp

I am not at all surprised by this incident. I worked for our local YMCA for 8 years, in a variety of positions, including management. I quit about a year ago for the following reason...I was told by our Assistant Executive Director that while it was great I was involved in church (youth ministry, missions trips, etc.) I was too involved and should think about prioritizing my interests. I want to note that any days that I asked off of work, for trips, etc., were approved by this director with no complaints, warnings, or any thing else to indicate there was a problem. When I heard this, I thought hmmm...ok, my priority is God, not the YMCA so it made for an easy decision to leave. It especially rankled me though because there were other Program directors and staff who were involved in an open affair, taking younger staff out to party on the weekends, and basically behavior that doesn't represent what the Young Men's CHRISTIAN Association is supposed to stand for and was founded upon. This whole situation served to remind me that we fight not against flesh and blood, but against powers and principalities... So, to state again, while I am sad that this type of thing has occured in Georgia...I am not at all surprised.

I did write an E-mail to the director of the Cobb branch in Georgia...the location of the most recent event...but I wonder if it will do more than just stress her out. We can't expect to be able to hold non-Christians accountable to God's law. It means nothing to them.I wonder when it all started. One compromising Christian how many years ago in charge of the YMCA thought it would be a "kind" and "generous" thing to give a non-Christian a job at the YMCA...maybe to give an example of God's love...but at the same time, it meant that this non-believer had a leadership position in a Christian organization, even if it was a title as simple as "basketball coach", this nonbeliever became the leader of dozens of kids, some of whom may have grown up to work at YMCA themselves. I don't know. Speculation. But so possible that one thoughtless, perhaps well-intentioned, mistake led to an organization such as this.

Just as a preface to the readers... I am not at all trying to offend or anger anyone; I am merely trying to state my opinion.I happen to think that much of the subject matter being discussed in many of these posts is highly irrational and offensive. I completely understand Mr. Lee's perspective on this matter and realize that he has a point; but at the same time disagree with many of the things that are being said about the YMCA and its directors. Why is it that people on the other side of the country have the right to make such rash, un-educated assumptions pertaining to this situation? ("We can't expect to be able to hold non-Christians accountable to God's law. It means nothing to them.” wrote chosen7stone) How on earth would this person know if the branch director was a non-Christian? It is impossible!! Even if she were a non-Christian does that have any relevance? One does not need to be Christian in order to represent Christian principles. It is un-fare to blame wrongdoings on something so broad. Before the end of this post I wanted to clear this up…everybody is assuming that Mr. Lee's membership was terminated because he was discussing God and other subjects pertaining to Christianity... When in fact it was a matter of security. He gave these two young men his phone number and address and told them that they were not worthy of heaven. This comment and these actions were considered threatening so his membership was terminated. It was not Mr. Lee’s right to force his religion upon others… its’ nobody’s right. Goodbye, and please write back.

hello dude.Yet the world forces its religion on me every day. how do I fix that? In a way you are forcing your opinion here as well which I believe is your right and as a member of a forum it is accepted. What kind of world would it be if everybody was the same ? Where did the opinions start ? At Genesis perhaps ? Opinions can divide but they can also enrich.jouko

YMCA Situation ResolvedRecently we sent out an e-mail blast regarding the East Cobb YMCA membership termination of our ministry partner, Larry Lee. Larry peacefully shared Christ with two young men (seniors in High school) who were standing on the sidewalk outside the Y building. The next day he was abruptly notified that his membership was terminated. We believed this action to be unjust and unfair and it concerned us because it threatened a Christian's freedom to communicate the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We did not want a precedent to be set by this arbitrary decision. As this supplemental newsletter was initially sent out by us to nearly thirty-five thousand people, it sparked an overwhelming response from countless Christians around the world. As the e-mail message was forwarded on from person to person, it quickly gained media attention and Larry received invitations to be interviewed on both radio and television. In turn, the YMCA received a constant bombardment of phone calls and e-mails from people who were concerned about the situation. We are happy to announce that the Lord used this incredible response to reverse the YMCA's decision regarding Larry's membership. Larry was contacted by Tom McCleskey, the Executive Director of the Cobb County YMCA. Tom asked to meet with Larry in person. Their congenial meeting resulted in a resolution to the matter at hand. Larry has been reinstated as a member in good standing and the East Cobb Y has stated that it is now committed to creating opportunities for individuals to share their faith. We have included their official statement as it now appears on their website. We praise God for this outcome!Please keep in mind that our only motive in mobilizing the Christian community in this regard was to glorify God. This was not a personal quest to seek vengeance or prove a point in vain. Far be it from us as ambassadors of Christ to ever conduct our selves in this manner. Our intent was to uphold our precious civil and God-given liberties to lovingly and peacefully share the life-changing Gospel of our Lord. We do this because we care about the eternal destiny of all people. We would like to thank you all for your prayers, your support and your commitment to the Great Commission! Please join us in thanking and praising God for His faithfulness.We would also like to ask that you please forward this on to all those whom you originally notified about this matter. As we communicated our concern, let us now kindly voice our appreciation for the YMCA's honorable decision to reinstate Larry's membership. Please feel free to e-mail Executive Director, Tom McCleskey, with words of thanks and encouragement: tomm@ymcacobb.orgMay the Lord's Hand of of blessing be upon you all as you continue to labor in the field that is white for the harvest.Until the whole world hears,The Staff of LivingWaters.com-------------------------------Below you'll find theCobb YMCA's Official Statement Terminated Member Reinstated The situation involving the terminated member of the East Cobb YMCA has been resolved to the satisfaction of both the YMCA and the member. As both parties took the opportunity to sit down and communicate reasonably, it became clear that this member was not and is not a threat to the safety or security of children. Therefore, the member has been reinstated as a member in good standing. Both the YMCA and the member agree that the safety of our children deserves the highest priority, and both are committed to upholding this important standard. The Cobb YMCA will move forward to create age-specific opportunities for individuals to share their faith, with complete confidence that the YMCA will remain a safe and healthy place for all children and adults. We look ahead to the future with great anticipation. Tom McCleskey, Executive DirectorYMCA of Cobb County http://www.ymcacobb.org/news.asp