jerryaustin1
Sep 3, 2008
(Please state briefly what you think they are and which one you believe)
(Please state briefly what you think they are and which one you believe)
Neither,
Christ alone is our sanctification.
1 Corinthians 1:27-31 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and ((((sanctification,)))) and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
Sanctified in Christ: Phillip
1st. I agree with Phillip.
2nd. The doctrines invented from trying to determine dead mens views have caused great divisions in the Church. It is often like trying to nail jello to the wall.
Biblical sanctification by the Word of truth;
by the blood of Christ, and by the indwelling
of the Holy Spirit. Sanctification is the work
of grace and the ministry of the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 1:28-31 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in His presence. But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
Christ is our Wisdom, Christ is our righteousness, Christ is our sanctification, Christ is our redemption.
The Holy Spirit is not the sanctifier, the Holy Spirit is the teacher of the truth that Christ is our Sanctification. The Holy Spirit is not our redemption, but the Teacher of that redemption. It was Christ that hang on the Cross, not the Holy Spirit. Christ is our wisdom, the Holy Spirit is the Teacher of that wisdom. Christ is our righteousness, Not the Holy Spirit, The Holy Spirit is the Teacher and the One that comforts us in The Christ that will not leave us comfortless either.
Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
The Comforter is to: John 16:8-14 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
This is our precious Comforter Teacher, who never speaks of Himself but only that which is give Him by Jesus Christ and The Holy Spirit is the One that shows The Truth of "Christ in us the Hope of Glory". Col 1:27
The Holy Spirit is the sealer of our redemption in Christ, He seals our sanctification by the Christ that is birthed in us. Born again of The Spirit of Incorruptable Seed of the Father, and the Water of Life in Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit is the One that brings all truth of Jesus Christ to those that are Christs'.
John 14:28-30 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe. Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Colossians 3:1-4 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
He Is Come To Us, sent the Holy Spirit from the Father to teach us this truth. The Holy Spirit will be our Teacher forever and in us forever. Praise God. Jesus Christ being the full and complete foundation for all the Holy Spirit teaches us.
In Christ: Phillip
How do you believe it is obtained? Through indentification with the death of Chirst or by asking in faith believing?
The following verses should thoroughly answer your question.
[b]Romans 14
23. [b]for whatsoever is not of faith is sin
[b]1 Thessalonians 4
1. Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.
2. For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
3. For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
4. That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
5. Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
6. That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
7. For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
[b]2 Thessalonians 2
11. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12. That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13. But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14. Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[b]1 Corinthians 1
29. That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31. That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
[b]John 17
17. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21. That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23. I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25. O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26. And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
Amen boG,
It is God who has, "made", -caused to be, Jesus Christ our Sanctification.
We cannot obtain sanctification, it is given by God in the Christ Seed that is birthed in us.
Christ most certainly our Sanctifier, He is the One that purifies us by the Work of the Holy Spirit He has given us from the Father. Christ the the Sanctified One, The Holy Spirit is the implementer of that Sanctification, by The Word Himself born again in us.
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible (Seed), by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
The Word of God; John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made. In Him was life; and the life was the light of men.
This is our Sanctification.
Being conformed to His image.
Romans 8:29-39 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Christ is or sanctification, our Wisdom, our Righteousness, (Justification) and our Redemption,(Redemer).
In Christ who has been made our all in all
Phillip
Maybe the question should be how do you believe it is experienced.
Sanctification, an interesting topic. If God determines the pace of our being set apart, then the fact that we still sin in certain areas means that it is God's fault. Can this be true?
If my sin is my fault, which it is, then the fact that I am still sinning in certain areas means that I choose too. What is the theological and practical ramifications of this ? That at the moment we are saved, we are fully sanctified, meaning, if we choose to, we can follow God fully. Sanctification is the process of surrender and obedience to an already establised order. It is akin to the promised land. God gave the promised land to the Israelites. He gave them all of it all at one time. He fulfilled His covenenant. Did the Israelites take it right away? Did they wander for 40 years? Was that Gods will or fault? Did they learn to surrender and be obedient in the desert? Did they take all of the land when they finally crossed over, and if they did not, whose fault was it? God is perfect, we are rebellious. He is always right and we are always wrong. We are ready to die to sin or we are not. Whatever sin we toy with, allow to continue in our lives, effects us. When the Israelites mingled with "the world," they were adversly effected by that, we too.
PS...just to complicate matters...my wife is not saved but she is "sanctified by the believing spouse." :)
Quote:
"""How do you believe it is obtained? Through indentification with the death of Chirst or by asking in faith believing?"""
Through the identification of the Life in Christ, and the teaching, line upon line and precept upon precept, by the Holy Spirit.
Something comes alive in the believer. Eph 1, Col 1:27-28, Gal 2: 16-20.
Christ in you the hope of Glory. It is finished in Christ, It is being finished in Christ, It will be finished in Christ. 2 Corinthians 1:10 Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;
Then the sanctification begins, In Christ: Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Taught by: John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
In Christ: Phillip
A quote from Tozer......Volitional Attachment
There is also the volitional attachment to Christ. If I am going to follow Christ in complete and total commitment I must do it by a continuous act of my will. A Christian who tries to live on impulse and inspiration, wine hopes to sail to heaven over the undulating sea of religious feeling, is making a bad mistake. A man who lives on his feelings is not living very well and is not going to last very long. The old writers used to tell us of the dark night of the soul There's a place where a Christian goes through darkness, where there is heaviness. God isn't going to take us off to heaven all wrapped in cellophane looking as if we ought to be hanging on a Christmas tree. God is going to take us there after He has purged us and disciplined us and dragged us through the fire and has made us strong and has taught us that faith and feeling are not the same--although faith, thank God, brings feeling sometimes.
We used to sing, "High heaven that heard my solemn vow, that vow renewed shall daily hear. " People are afraid of that kind of thing now, but I believe just as Daniel determined that be would riot eat of the king's meat and as Jesus set His face like a flint, and just as Paul said "This one thing I do, " the true follower of Christ must be a man whose will has been sanctified. He dare not be a will-less man. I never believed that when we teach the deeper life we should teach that God destroys our will. But God unites our will with His will and our will becomes strong in His will, and sometimes as we go on in God we hardly know whether it is our will
or God' s that is working at a given moment.
Sanctification requires an active participation of a christian, you can not just lie there in wordly indulgences and boom! you are sanctified.
How can any claim of being a Christian without having the fruits of Christ sanctification, let us not have our faith to be in vain.
1 Cor 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals
Yes Christians can be entirely sanctified while here in our mortal bodies, but there will be no Christian perfection until we are GLORIFIED.
But while on earth let us take heed of the apostles admonition on holy living, obedience, and sanctification without which we must be ashamed to call ourselves Christians.
Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to His working, which worketh in me mightily.
Age old story, we must do it. The Christ story, our labor is according to Christ working in us mightily.
Colossians 1:29 Whereunto I also labour , striving according to his working , which worketh in me mightily .
Labour;
2872. kopiao
Search for G2872 in KJVSL
kopiaw kopiao kop-ee-ah'-o
from a derivative of 2873; to feel fatigue; by implication, to work hard:--(bestow) labour, toil, be wearied.
striving;
Strong's Greek Dictionary
75. agonizomai
Search for G75 in KJVSL
agwnizomai agonizomai ag-o-nid'-zom-ahee
from 73; to struggle, literally (to compete for a prize), figuratively (to contend with an adversary), or genitive case (to endeavor to accomplish something):--fight, labor fervently, strive.
His working:
Strong's Greek Dictionary
1753. energeia
Search for G1753 in KJVSL
energeia energeia en-erg'-i-ah
from 1756; efficiency ("energy"):--operation, strong, (effectual) working.
Which worketh;
Strong's Greek Dictionary
1754. energeo
Search for G1754 in KJVSL
energew energeo en-erg-eh'-o
from 1756; to be active, efficient:--do, (be) effectual (fervent), be mighty in, shew forth self, work (effectually in).
By His active, operative:--effectual, powerful in us.
We only do the labour and striving, it is He that effectually does the work in us.
Let us seek Him that is Perfect and did all the work for our sanctification on the Cross.
Colossians 3:1-10 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created Him:
He was made our Sanctification.,
1 Corinthians 1:29-31 That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
Sanctified in Christ, being Sanctified in Christ and will be Sanctified in Christ.
To know Him is our sanctification in Him:
Phillip
If anyone counts surrender as a work, then I am guilty as charged, i only wish I was more guilty...........Frank
Amen Frank,
Surrender is our Labour and our striving, by His working in us. As Christ surrendered completely, even to obedience of death on a Cross.
By His, By His active, operative and effectual, powerful work in us.
"It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me".
Galatians 2:16-21 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is the Faith of the Son of God which effectually works in us that we might surrender as He did. Amen
In Christ: Phillip
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