i was wondering, i saw and read some stuff on him and his ministry and i was impressed by the videos of him basically laying out whole auditoriums so i was wondering what you guys thought of him and his ministry.
-Alf
Ken Hagin said...
"The trouble with us is that we've preached a 'cross' religion, and we need to preach a 'throne' religion. By that I mean that people have thought they were supposed to remain at the cross. Some have received the baptism in the Holy Spirit, have backed up to the cross, and have stayed there ever since...The cross is actually a place of defeat, whereas the Resurrection is a place of triumph. When you preach the cross, you're preaching death, and you leave people in death." ("The Believer's Authority,"1986 AD)
Paul the Apsotle said...
"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God...For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified." (First letter to the Corinthians. 53 to 57 AD)
What do you think brother?
MC
hmm i see what you mean but then again it is just a paragraph out of an entire book so as with verses always read the whole thing to get the full picture.
His works (from what i have read/heard) are pretty impressive ive watched videos of him being used by the spirit but just wanted to see what people think, good point though on what you posted ill look into it.
hello alf i saw you at mardel book store and spoke highly of charles finney and told you i would not go to rhema . i am Clint glad you are seeking truth .remember narrow is the way and few there be that find it. Hagin is so wrong about the spiritual death of jesus and the devil has a reason for having men teach such nonsence. i am soon posting under" did Jesus die spiritually" about this
His works (from what i have read/heard) are pretty impressive ive watched videos of him being used by the spirit
Hi Alf! I guess it depends on what is your definition of "being used by the spirit" -- especially if it's something that can be "watched" on videos.
I personally believe that the most powerful works of the true Holy Spirit are those that strengthen the "inner man" (the spirit within us) -- and that's a work which no videocamera can capture! And even if a camera could, it wouldn't be pretty -- because it'd bear the look of genuine repentance. Any outward manifestations of the Holy Spirit are likewise to ultimately strengthen the "inner man" of others in the Body of Christ so that we increasingly become more and more like Jesus (Ephesians 4:11-13).
May you be encouraged and led by the Holy Spirit today!
Your brother,
SDP
I personally believe that the most powerful works of the true Holy Spirit are those that strengthen the "inner man" (the spirit within us) -- and that's a work which no videocamera can capture! And even if a camera could, it wouldn't be pretty -- because it'd bear the look of genuine repentance.
Brother Paul
Clint!!! awesome to see ya on the forums!
and brother spoonen i completely agree with your comment but i have a couple of concerns.
1) I came to Christ about 2 years ago and after much prayer and fasting i got an answer from God as to what he wanted me to do, The Lord revealed to me that he wanted to be a pastor, so i followed. the problem was that i knew not what to do or where to go so i started praying and fasting again.
2) After much prayer the Lord revealed to me Rhema as the place to go... now you might ask, how did he reveal that?
He revealed it to me by a dream.
Im not a big dreamer... so i defently paid attention on this one specially due to the fact that it answered my prayers on where to go.
I had a dream in which i was leaving my old college campus and as i was approaching my car i saw a little white haired old man who i recognized clearly to be Leonard Ravenhill (I listend to him alot, still do) so i went back to him and introduced myself and went on to keep walking to my car but before i got to the car i remembered that i needed to ask Ravenhill a question so i go back to him and look him straight in the face and i asked "Ravenhill do you think i should go to Rhema?" and he answered "i think that would be a good idea" and suddenly the dream ended... so i believe till this day that it was the Lord answering my prayers (i went on to drop out of college to follow the Lord's calling and now i am currently enrolled at Rhema Bible Training center for 1st year.
BUT now there is a problem the "word of faith movement" does not convince me... hagin does not convince me but for some reason the school does i have felt the spirit at their meetings but i am burdened by their preachings on material prosperity and some of their preaching... so brothers... what do you take of it?
I had a dream in which i was leaving my old college campus and as i was approaching my car i saw a little white haired old man who i recognized clearly to be Leonard Ravenhill (I listend to him alot, still do) so i went back to him and introduced myself and went on to keep walking to my car but before i got to the car i remembered that i needed to ask Ravenhill a question so i go back to him and look him straight in the face and i asked "Ravenhill do you think i should go to Rhema?" and he answered "i think that would be a good idea" and suddenly the dream ended... so i believe till this day that it was the Lord answering my prayers
My dear wife is going through a tremendously difficult pregnancy right now. She needs to be fed and sustained by TPN - a special fluid of nutrients and vitamins and minerals that enters her body through a pic line feeding directly into a vein in her arm. She needs this artifical form of sustenance because of the hyperemesis she's going through - she can't keep anything down. My point in explaining this to you is this: the pic line is the means by which the good sustenance flows, but if we are not careful to sterilize it, bacteria can also enter through the same channel and infect her.
Such the same with dreams. Dreams can be sweet and edifying, and we have scriptural proof that God may employ them as a means to communicate from time to time, but through the same dream channel the enemy can also infiltrate - in fact, I am convinced Satan has more cameos in our dreams than God does.
Be very careful. Go to the Word of God with humility of mind - this is the only safe and solid and foolproof method for hearing from the true God of Israel. Put no confidence in dreams or visions or voices or images of Ravenhill or angels or whoever else may appear. Today we have the full and complete Word of God written upon our hearts; we are not like Zacharias and Mary or those who seek clairvoyant encounters with God, or supernatural manifestations as a "fleece" to determine His will.
I will not judge Hagin's walk, and men like him, because every plant my Father did not plant will one day be uprooted and judged. But I warn you to not follow him, or others like him, and to flee the company of men and women who espouse the kind of doctrine he spreads. You have no way of knowing whether the dream you had was genuinely of God, and I've said all this to you in love.
Hope this helps a bit,
Brother Paul
hello alf i am convinced that God sends His light forth.it is likened to being set on hill as the city Jesus was refering too. it was like vegas of that day all lit up. i was fortunate to meet leonard ravenhill personally in 1990. He told us that were there that he could not be asscociated with certain ministries and why . the man had one of the strongest anointings i have ever been around from a man, his life was a life called out, and it seems to me that he followed. when i firts gave my life to the Lord in 1985 i prayed and prayed about rhema and if i should go. and God told me not to go and He showed me in a vision in prayer one night as to why. i went to visit a rhema service one time and kenneth was speaking this was in 1987. i have since understood why i was not to got ther. whoever i have had Good relationships in Christ with some that i have known that went there. we would always diagree on the death of Jesus and what happened from the cross to the throne. yet Jesus is bigger than all the things that are not yet subject unto Him. in hebrews it says " that all things are subject to Him yet we do not yet see all things sublect unto Him , BUT WE SEE HIM .alf you do not need to know everything , but always pray and seek God and look to Jesus only so that you can know the difference. the difference between mans thoughts and Gods thoughs , your thoughts and which ones are God inspired and the ones that are not inspired by Him. when at rhema always know that God is all knowing and larger than all . leaning and looking and abiding in the Jesus of scripture and God will reveal the light of Himself to those you come in contact with at school. Wisdom is chief and when you are wise in Christ He will appeal to reason and will convince those who are truly seeking Him of Who He really is . He will make Himself known to you as you look to him and not any man.. rhema did not have the same presence in person as leonard ravenhill did. yet i do not judge other than from the bible. hey i was out mowing my yard earlier thinkign that us meeting at mardels was no accident and was wanting to meet you some evening at casa san marcos at 23 and garnet to eat diner and fellowship and gather in his name. how about that some day . i live near 31 and mingo
paul . i have posted in the doctrinal part on the did jesus die spiritually and i do not believe hagin is right . i met alf at mardels in tulsa and i told him of sermonindex.net and how good it was , i initiated contact with him as the lord led me to and he said that he already was coming here and his name was alf . so at mardels he said he was going to rhema and i told him then not to go there and that i would'nt if i were him. well . i say all this to thank you for your input, and thank you for your labors in thr Lord, God Bless you , and may Joy and Peace and Grace abound to you and your family.
Hi Alf,
I would like to ask you why you went the Rhema? What is it really that appeals to you there? Be brutally honest to yourself. Put the dream aside. I cannot quite see that Ravenhill and Hagin have much in common anyway.
The WoF teaching appeals to those to whom the things that they supposedly are entitled to are important. I subscribed to their theology a couple of years ago because deep down in my heart I wanted to gain material and earthly blessings. To the degree I desired these blessings the truth was obscured to me and I erred in the faith. Now these things appeal little to me.
I must admit not all of Hagins teachings are twisted. The enemy never only used pure error, but usually uses much truth mixed with a little error to poison us. If I wanted to poison someone, you do not give someone pure poison but blend it into tasty food or drink in order not to be detected.
Here is a good resource
http://www.letusreason.org/Wf8.htm
narrowpath
Brothers i truly appreciate all your advise and words of wisdom, as for Rhema the Lord will answer when the time is right i will pray like never before for this one so ill leave it in his hands.
As for Word of Faith, i see right through them i want no assosiation with them when and if i finish Rhema, they have fallen into the trap of properity and one thing i have is faith in Christ, he knows my being and knows money is made to help the gospel not my net worth.
But as always brothers i have come to the same conclusion that i did 2 years ago... pray and he shall answer.
Much love and blessings from a fellow saint and in prayers i will have your wife's situation paul. Keep me in your prayers i am true need of them :) God bless!
Much love and blessings from a fellow saint and in prayers i will have your wife's situation paul. Keep me in your prayers i am true need of them :
Yours in Christ Jesus,
Brother Paul
PaulWest wrote:Much love and blessings from a fellow saint and in prayers i will have your wife's situation paul. Keep me in your prayers i am true need of them :
Yours in Christ Jesus,
Brother Paul
I'm praying also. I had the same thing when I was pregnant with all five kids so I know what she's going through. My oldest is 16 and my youngest is nine now. I just got back from their high school football game. Time flies and life is so short.
I'm praying also. I had the same thing when I was pregnant with all five kids so I know what she's going through.
Brother Paul
Out of all of the Word of faith teachers, Kenneth Hagin was probably the most balanced. I do not agree with all of his teachings, but I benefited from his ministry. Toward the end of his life, he denounced many of the excesses that were taught by many of the "faith teachers". Kenneth Hagin had some excellent teachings on the blood of Jesus, and the name of Jesus.
Mike
Hagin may have been the most influential father of the modern word of Faith movement. He adapted the idea that our Words control God, and by the speaking of them, we control our destiny. This is a fundamental doctrine in the "Word of Faith".
"In the tongue their is the power of life and death.", was the mantra, but Hagin espoused these principles without a cross. A crossless Gospel, that in the end, was all about the Bride, rather than the Bridegroom.[Jesus.]
Out of these, naturally came the "Prosperity Gospels", of Happiness and wealth as the end all, for after all, we are the head, and not the tail!".... The Bible is the Word of God, so All you need to do is to speak it!... and the life in it can work for you!...and God forgive if you ever have a negative faith confession! You are destroying yourself with your tongue!
Of course, there is an element of truth in this, as there always is heresy, but fundamentally, The Lordship of Jesus was transferred from our responsibility and worship unto Him, to our responsibility to our own word faith , which could change the very fiber of the Universe itself, unto our favor, or displeasure.
This is a Babylonian idea, and unChristian in nature, and is akin to a form of witchcraft, similar to guided imagery. Hagin was influenced by A. w. Kenyon, some what of a philosophical mystic.
There was a day when multitudes, and I mean millions of Christians guarded their lips, to beware lest a slip of the tongue would set them back! Sick people would respond when asked of their well being in a simple, "How are you?"..."I'm healthy, I'm prosperous and happy in Jesus!"
You couldn't get a strait answer from anybody. Everyone was on the positive confession train. No one would dare confess weakness, or struggles.....many, many people on their death beds died, with a positive faith confession through to the end.[..rather than worshipping or real praying on their way out...] Christians then began to meld into the prophetic realm, to DECLARE these positive faith confessions over others.
The "Prophetic" pathetic got a hold of this, and again, MILLIONS were held spellbound by the wacky heresies. It was all about your confession and prayers, and the world was your apple, just a syllable away.
In '99 I went to Jerusalem, and beheld a Messianic group do "THE DEVIL HOP" , on the devils head, as they chanted rebukes to him. All they had to do was SAY it. This is how many dealt with problems and warfare; all stemming from Hagin's positive word of Faith ideas.
This we see today, in the mania swirling around Todd Bentley, as so called Apostles and Prophets, declared a "FAITH CONFESSION " prophesy over him. All bogus, all self serving, but I submit to you, that the roots go all the way back to Hagin. You just declare it, and it is, because it's the Word of God and Faith! Bentley himself was obsessed with these radical ideas about himself, and declared all kind of things "in the spirit realm..", as did the Apostles and prophets around him. All lies, but stemming from the roots of word of Faith, fathered by Hagin.
He was a founding father of the doctrinal stances TBN adapted, and was affectionately called, "PAPA HAGIN" in honor of him. This crew has massacred millions in their power and wealth lusts.
He founded a bible college, called "RHEMA", that taught the young to follow in these doctrines. Good job, Kenneth.
You asked my thoughts. I think that I would not want to be in His shoes on judgement day. God knows.
Alf wrote:
i was wondering, i saw and read some stuff on him and his ministry and i was impressed by the videos of him basically laying out whole auditoriums so i was wondering what you guys thought of him and his ministry.-Alf
Tom said;
"In '99 I went to Jerusalem, and beheld a Messianic group do "THE DEVIL HOP" , on the devils head, as they chanted rebukes to him. All they had to do was SAY it. This is how many dealt with problems and warfare; all stemming from Hagin's positive word of Faith ideas."
I was going to say "better be carefull in your shotgun indictments that you offer no proof or text quotes from a man that loved Jesus with all his heart"
You definately never knew much about Hagen.
But I think Wigglesworth's warning fits better than anything I would have to say about blatant trashing of anothers salvation.
""To another discerning of spirits" (1 Cor. 12:10). There is a vast difference between natural discernment and spiritual. When it comes to natural discernment you will find many people loaded with it, and they can see so many faults in others. To such the words of Christ in the sixth chapter of Luke surely apply, "Why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?" If you want to manifest natural discernment, focus the same on yourself for at least twelve months and you will see so many faults in yourself that you will never want to fuss about the faults of another. In the sixth of Isaiah we read of the prophet being in the presence of God and he found that even his lips were unclean and everything was unclean. But praise God, there is the same live coal for us today, the baptism of fire, the perfecting of the heart, the purifying of the mind, the regeneration of the spirit. How important it is that the fire of God shall touch our tongues"
David
Alf wrote:
i was wondering, i saw and read some stuff on him and his ministry and i was impressed by the videos of him basically laying out whole auditoriums so i was wondering what you guys thought of him and his ministry.-Alf
Well no matter what preachers do, we should look to scripture and see what Jesus did. Then you will not go wrong.
I never met Hagin, nor did I meet Bentley or Benny Hinn. I was asked to give my thoughts on him, and I did. I think he was deceived, and somewhat of a wolf. Bad and unscriptural doctrine swirled around the man. That is indisputable. I have seen him preach many times, and read his books, beginning in the early 70s. I have been in the ministry with graduates of Rhema who were my friends.
I don't claim to have supernatural gifts to you; but I am called to judge a man's fruit and doctrine. IN MY THOUGHTS, and OPINION, He has erred grievously in both departments.[ as I pointed out in previous post, and the whys of the error. ] I will declare this to all I meet, if I think it will be helpful. Perhaps , or evidently you support Hagin somewhat. That is your right. I think he was in lots of error, as I spoke.
I also stated , very clearly, the fundamental doctrine, and defined the fruit of it, as I see it. It's awful, and drives one away from dependence on Christ, and His cross. This is evil.
This discussion is locked.
