Worst crisis since Great Depression?

" "This has been the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. There is no question about it," said New York University economist Mark Gertler in the WSJ.

The U.S. financial system is like a patient in intensive care, the Journal states. "The body is trying to fight off a disease that is spreading, and as it does so, the body convulses, settles for a time and then convulses again.

The disease? The unwinding of the massive debt that banks and regular Americans have taken on in recent years. Household borrowing grew at an 11% average annual rate between 2002 and 2006, the Journal says, outpacing overall economic growth. Banks were just as bad. And now, well, the piper is being paid.

The article has a good explainer on credit-default swaps, a game that helped bring AIG down. Basically, the swaps are a way for firms to place bets on whether a borrower is going to default. Sounds like a sick little game, wagering on whether a company can honor its obligations. But it's a way firms get some insurance on their risk exposure. AIG sold lots of these swaps, and buyers thought the insurance giant would help protect them against defaults.

Yet some aspects of the economy seem surprisingly resilient to the financial system's woes. Unemployment isn't as bad as it was in the early 1990s, and companies are still pouring money into marketing and research, the Journal says. Exports are still strong and the government has moved swiftly to address disasters in the making."

Source MSN Money http://blogs.moneycentral.msn.com/topstocks/archive/2008/09/18/worst-crisis-since-great-depression.aspx

Today marks the day that our nation has become bondservants to the world. The stock market is scheduled to continue the upward move that began yesterday afternoon when our government announced that the taxpayer of the United States would accept the burden created by the princes of this nation....

This is indeed a historic time for this nation. I have been reading in the book of Judges and this generation is no different than those who did evil in the sight of the Lord...and we will bear the burden of our worship of other gods....

Pray that we believers may continue to be allowed to live godly and peaceful lives.

In Christ
Jeff

Amen to your post, Krispy.

We have the assurance of God's Word, that the righteous won't be forsaken, or their seed beg bread.

It sure is greed that has put America where she is.

May we turn our eyes upon Jesus
Look full in His Wonderful Face.
And the things of Earth will grow strangely dim,
In the Light of His Glory and Grace.

God Bless all
Nellie

An interesting twist;

If the gov. "purchased" controlling interest of AIG ,and the ceo's and officers are prosecuted.
Do we,"the gov." stand to receive dividends and disgorgement monies?

naaaa

The gov, bailout of AIG could have been radically premature.
It could very well be the gov. made the steal of the century.
they had tons and tons of assets.

One thing I keep looking for that is absent is the Arab involvement in the Mortgage"crisis"

Is it really a crisis?

Arabs unwittingly bought tons of "Paper" from mortgage companies. These Arab investors believed they were getting a steal.

Makes me wonder,who,in actuality, got "bailed out"

"My hope is in, the name of the Lord. He is my strength, my song. My heart can rest, I'm in his hands where I belong"--Lisa Gungor

Very good point. We must pray for our nation. For these are truly shakey times. Yet, even in times of crisis we need not trust in man, but in the Lord.

Maybe now, even more so, our eyes will become open to understand that although we live in this world, we must not let this world be in us.

2Ti 3:1 [b][size=x-small]But this know, that in [the] last days difficult times shall be there; [/size][/b]

2Ti 3:2 for men shall be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, evil speakers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, profane,
2Ti 3:3 without natural affection, implacable, slanderers, of unsubdued passions, savage, having no love for what is good,
2Ti 3:4 traitors, headlong, of vain pretensions, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 having a form of piety but denying the power of it: and from these turn away. - Darby Translation

The gov, bailout of AIG could have been radically premature. It could very well be the gov. made the steal of the century.
they had tons and tons of assets.

I heard a gentleman on NPR the other night assessing the AIG situation and, if I understood correctly, the collateral/assets AIG maintains are things like peoples' life insurance policies, retirement funds, money markets, etc. So if AIG folds, does the government take those assets as repayment for the $85 billion loan? That's not collateral I'd want my financial group offering for a bailout loan!

Krispy,

Thanks for your encouragement to pay off debt. It's one we all need to hear.

This year, we've been blessed to pay off about $11,000 in credit card debt. We still have about $7,000 to go, but we're encouraged. That's almost all been moved to a 0% interest card and we're getting aggressive now that we can see a little light at the end of the tunnel.

We have no auto debt; both are paid for. We do have a mortgage, but we've built good equity and our market has not taken the hit that the rest of the nation has.

God is good and we are convinced that debt is a plague on our country. It has been a plague on us. We made a lot of stupid mistakes and let our desire for instant gratification outweigh our common sense and the clear direction of Scripture.

We are in full time ministry and just found out our salary will be cut by a third, with scale backs starting in October. We need to cut expenses to continue to pay off debt, so we're considering a move to an area where we can cut our mortgage payment in half.

We praise the Lord for this; He has taught us much (the hard way). He is worthy to be praised.

Blessings,

Jon

The USSR was brought down/ broken apart financially (mammon). They could not afford both the “arms race” and government.

There is NO reporting on the fact that banks are rated using banking law compliance and benefit from good ratings. Four banking laws were passed during Clinton presidency. All increased requirements banks to loan money to those that had ever increasing poorer credit ratings/history in order for banks to maintain higher government ratings. There are many roads to the Kingdom of this World’s brotherhood (socialism/communism). Only a few banks refused (USBank is one, maybe modern woodman savings). In the Kingdom of this World, do you think we will ever hear that the Legislature did this/contributed to the greed, entitlement, appearance of worth, appetites.

To those that are debt free (me too) and live in the blessings of poverty ([u][b]needs[/u][/b] met), we will now pay the debts of those that just had to have their third trinket, fast food dinners, fourth by-passes, etc. The government, not Christians, will “meet the needs” of the poor, and then some. See the other $ crisis thread on SI. Good and evil are exchanged daily. This is the Kingdom of the World.

[u]If posts from today are lost in the transfer to a new web site[/u], I won’t miss my post here.

Heaven operates on abundance. The economy of abundance is saturated with God.

The world operates on the economy of lack. This is why DeBirees suppress diamond output. (Lack equals value)

The reason we erroneously think poverty is virtue is because of men and trust,or I should say lack of financial responsibility.

The world measures a man by his worth. This conception has crept into the church,along with greed,and narcissism.
Hence the always present error of men's teachings.
Their endless ability to judge spiritual things with the natural mind.

Biblical prosperity comes from heaven. I have had the opportunity to handle fairly large sums of money. It didn't worry God(his streets are paved in gold) and I didn't let it move me.

On the other hand I have seen people get large sums of money and watch them metamorphose into a completely different person.

Money and wealth can shipwreck the best of us.
But it is not bad nor is poverty virtuous.

Just as "the glutton shall come to poverty" is a bad thing. A man that has a lot of food on hand is a good thing.

Riches and wealth "CAN" ruin a man but are not bad or evil of themselves.

If poverty is of God shouldn't we all forsake electricity and vehicles?

I would love to see the break off point of what is poverty and what is riches.

Abundance is of God. It is his economy

Treasury Secretary Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Bernanke have planted this message...

Our financial system is in deep trouble, there is very little time left to save it. The people of the United States must give to us the full authority to do whatever we deem necessary in order to save the people's economic security.

If one reads the Scripture, this sounds like what the anti christ might say....

Now we can see for our own eyes, in this generation, how easily it might be for the anti christ to take hold of this world...

In Christ
Jeff

Buying out bad debt and bad loans with a bad
check is bad fiscal policy !! The writing's
on the wall: our financial system is sure to
fall. Why? We have forgotten what is plainly
printed on all our currency: IN GOD WE
TRUST !!

Bernanke Says Failure to Pass Plan Threatens Economy (Update1)

By Scott Lanman and Simon Kennedy

Sept. 23 (Bloomberg) -- Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke warned lawmakers that failure to pass a rescue plan to take over troubled assets from financial firms would pose a threat to markets and the economy.

``Action by the Congress is urgently required to stabilize the situation and avert what could otherwise be very serious consequences for our financial markets and for our economy,'' Bernanke said in testimony prepared for delivery today to the Senate Banking Committee. ``Global financial markets remain under extraordinary stress.''

Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson are pushing Congress to quickly approve a $700 billion plan to remove illiquid assets from the banking system. Lawmakers have balked at rubber-stamping the proposal, with Democrats demanding it include support for homeowners and limits on executive pay, while some Republicans question the plan's reach and size...

(end of this morning's article)

Do you see how easy the masses can be swayed when their perceived security is in question?

In Christ
Jeff

The reason we erroneously think poverty is virtue is because of men and trust,or I should say lack of financial responsibility.

[i]Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.[/i]

Heaven operates on abundance. The economy of abundance is saturated with God.

Is it now ... that is that you would tie it to a monetary system of dollars and cents.

Biblical prosperity comes from heaven. I have had the opportunity to handle fairly large sums of money. It didn't worry God(his streets are paved in gold) and I didn't let it move me.

Well good for you. I am taking great umbrage at your notions that have all the tinge and stench of the 'prosperity' movement of this hour. Sheer foolishness and lack of grasp to stick this in here, your prideful boasting while all around you pain, misery and suffering ... [i]narcissism[/i]?

I have been following this for quite some time now, reading a great deal of a variety of opinion. There is blame to be had for certain and that from all corners. It ought to start at the top and it ought to be met with severe consequences - but it won't. There is a collusion going on that makes suspicious even the usual bi-partisan squabbling that is normatively conspicuous by it's absence. They will go ahead with it (the bailout) and try and cover it all up quickly ...

I must say it is surprising how many real people do in fact 'get' this. They are not all Christan's of the sort we might like to have them, but they do get the moral shipwreck of it all. The lack of accountability - The ease with which they will foster this whole nightmare upon the taxpayers - That would be you and me of those that live in this country. Politics aside there are many more law abiding, bill paying, hard working people in this country than not. The silent masses who will pick up the tab of the greedy and the over-extended, the house flippers and those who never in their wildest imaginations should have ever been given a loan in the first place ...

There are consequences, untold consequences of all this corruption and unmitigated greed - "[i]We the People[/i]" are now stuck with a bill of goods for that which we never had a hand in.

Thank God for those who are trying their best to get out of debt. I am with you all and have been at this struggle as well for years now, it is the main goal ... and now it has the added benefit of being made that much harder taking on [i]their[/i] debt in the form of economic increase, fuel, food - etc.

This is no light trivial matter.

An interesting piece for your chewing ...
[url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8974]The Secret Bailout of J. P. Morgan:[/url]

Here is the latest fear mongering in the hope that 2 men would be assigned the task of saving the world financial system...

Bernanke: Recession more likely without bailout
Tuesday September 23, 1:32 pm ET
By Julie Hirschfeld Davis and Jeannine Aversa, Associated Press Writers
Bernanke: Congress must pass bailout bill to avoid recession, more job losses, foreclosures

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke bluntly warned reluctant lawmakers Tuesday they risk a recession with higher unemployment and increased home foreclosures if they fail to pass the Bush administration's $700 billion plan to bail out the financial industry.

Bernanke sketched a scenario in which neither businesses nor consumers could borrow money as President Bush and top lawmakers leaders in both parties voiced hope for agreement within days on a plan to ease the crisis...

how easily are the masses of men manipulated to do Satan's will...

In Christ
Jeff

Abundance is of God. It is his economy

The economy of abundance is saturated with God.

You should be so blessed to be poor and in constant want, where God is your only daily reliance for life and sustenance; as it stands, I am more and more convinced that riches and great wealth and perfect health are pitfalls rather than blessings. We don't see the results immediately, but over time, it becomes more and more apparent.

But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality:

You cant take a stand on total poverty any more than total riches.

I know for a fact that it is God to pray for those that I come across that are in desperate need. I dont thank God for their suffering ,I help those I come across.

I dont know about your unbiblical statement about praying to be poor.

I dont consider poor to be a blessing. I also dont think you guys know anything about poor.
Take a trip to matamoros Mexico.
Veer off the beaten path. The images will stay in your mind for the rest of your life.
One thing I will promise you......You won't thank God for their plight,and you wont say "wow what a blessing to live in a refrigerator box and eat from the garbage dump.

To take a position on total poverty would necessitate never praying for a financial need.

I am NOT wof. Not even close. I do have a bible and am able to read it.

You judge me so wrongly and name call and then tell me what a lousy christian I am.

Paul said I have learned to abound and learned to do without.
The word says "to have food,raiment and a roof over your head,therein be content.

Its hard to be boastful when you are a landscaper that works with your hands for chickenfeed. Am filing my taxes as we speak. My gross receipts are 17k for 2007.
How about I exchange bank accounts with anybody on this forum?
I dont have extra money. I used to be a car dealer. I know what loss is.
I am not wondering if abundance is Gods economy. I know for a fact there is no lack in heaven.
You think because of the word of faith error that abundance is of the devil.
Abundance is the absence of lack. Since there is no lack in heaven ,and since God will not pattern his economy on poverty,I will definitely take the position that abundance is from God . And I will continue to thank him for his blessing.
Look at Sudan. Are we to thank God for their suffering? I would think we would help them.(Take some abundance and supply their need) (prosper them)

This whole thing is totally inverted and I have been misjudged and Maligned for no good reason.

Take this message, why don't you, and preach it to our persecuted brothers in labor camps, take your lie to the apostle Paul in a roach-infested prison. Riches, miracles, healing, saturated abundance?

So God never heals, never does any miracles,and the principle from heaven (Gods abundance) is a lie?

Paul,I dont think you yourself live in poverty.
I would venture if you saw real poverty you would not think God was putting poverty on people. You need a field trip to mexico.

Paul west said;
Take this message, why don't you, and preach it to our persecuted brothers in labor camps"

Since when is any format on this earth to stop anybody from rightly dividing the word.
You cant change Gods word to fit your doctrine.
There is NO lack in heaven.Period.

The testimony of brethren suffering does not necessitate the changing of Gods word.

Just like Jesus healing people is a clue that it is his will to heal.
Jesus ministry absolutely must be our example.
What did he do? Healed the sick,cast out demons,cleansed lepers,brought hope to the hopeless,opened blind eyes,and preached.
It seems to me to minimise Jesus ministry would be counterproductive to Jesus' kingdom.

It is up to whoever preaches to preach as led by the Holy Spirit.
I probably would not preach abundance to anybody. I would instead hope to be led of the Spirit. Just like I would not preach drinking wine to an alcohaolic,even though Jesus drank wine,or preach sanctification to the unsaved.

Anyway Like I told you before I will simply stay biblical.